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Author Topic: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!  (Read 6847 times)

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Offline willi

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The greatest batsman
published: Monday | April 23, 2007


Stephen Vasciannie

Brian Lara, the king of West Indian cricket, has decided to play his last stroke in first-class cricket. It means that we will no longer have the joy of watching Lara driving through cover, cutting square on the off side, lifting the 'flinger' over mid-on, or beating third man with sheer delicacy and timing. Nor, it must be said, will we see the inconsistency: the enthusiastic, but misguided shot, influenced as much by relatively old age, as by style, the wayward push outside the off stump that was sometimes food for slip fielders, the 35 when we needed 135.

There have been times when I have considered the world to be made up of two types of cricket supporters: those who hate Brian Lara, and those who respect him. Or, to put the matter in another way: those who have wanted Brian Lara dropped from the West Indies team, or at least from the captaincy thereof, and those who firmly opposed any dismissal of the world's greatest batsman.

Anti-Laralistas

The former category - comprised of anti-Laralistas - has been vocal and strong from about a decade. Last Thursday, as West Indies slumped to 8 for 2, against the sharply-biting minnows of Bangladesh, an anti-Laralista held court at a certain bookshop. "Lara must go now! Him can't captain de side! Because of him, even Bangladesh a go beat we!" I decided not to keep my own counsel on this matter of public importance and asked the public speaker why he thought Lara should be dropped as captain.

"Because him is a bad captain!" was the reply. But, I persisted, why is he a bad captain; give me examples of this. "Because of Lara, Wavell Hinds no de pon the side! Lara drop him."

The reasoning stumped me, but it serves to indicate that some of the opposition to Lara has been on unrealistic grounds. Some anti-Laralistas will deny this, but they come to the Lara debate with hostility based on nationalistic grounds. The point is not so much that Lara is Trinidadian and that some anti-Laralistas are insular. Rather, there is the perception that at some time in the past Lara organised to take over the captaincy from Courtney Walsh, our hero, and for that Lara cannot be forgiven.

Other anti-Laralistas build there arguments on notions of arrogance. The point for these critics is that wherever the line between confidence and arrogance happens to be, Lara has crossed it into the land of the selfishly arrogant. To support this argument, some analysts remind us of a team strike some years ago, noting that the captain was responsible for prompting the strike. Never mind that we did not really understand the dynamics of the strike, or even know whether the strike was justifiable: it was the fault of Lara the arrogant.

Another strain of the anti-Laral virus - perhaps the most coherent - has to do with deeply held disappointment. At a time when West Indian cricket fortunes have been variable, at best, we have yearned for a cricket messiah to take us back to the promised land; or more appropriately, for another Atlas, to carry the burdens of a weak team on his left shoulder. When Lara, as captain or as star batsman played the role, elation followed. But on each occasion when he failed, we were obliged to hold him responsible, and in a paroxysm of anger, to call for his dismissal as captain.

King, Not Prince

And then perhaps there are some anti-Laralistas motivated by scepticism, either for the sake of being sceptics or because they dislike pedestals. In his earlier years, especially when Lara scored 375 runs, the sceptics were silent; but as some of us tended to make Lara into a hero, they tried to pick his pedestal to pieces. Lara is vulnerable to McGrath, he can't read that other fellow, he made his century too quickly (!), he was selfish to go back for his world record(!)

In the name of analysis, the sceptics have belittled the 375, the 400, the record-equalling string of consecutive centuries, the first-class 501 innings, the highest aggregate in test cricket. The sceptics would not place Lara among the top five batsmen ever.

Mr. Lara, never mind the sceptics and the anti-Laralistas. Scepticism is the way of the world. But your recognition will come. Now that you have retired, many will gather to offer the superlatives you deserve. You have represented our cricketing aspirations, and you have handled your stewardship with outstanding class and achievement.

Brian Lara is the greatest batsman that cricket has known.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Vasciannie is professor of international law at the University of the West Indies and works part-time as deputy solicitor general in the Attorney-General's chambers.



 

Offline Bitter

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 08:02:32 AM »
Damn yardies!
Cyah even give the man a complement!
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 08:15:48 AM »
Insularity will always plague our cricket...sadly to say...

God is de BOSS...

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2007, 08:30:04 AM »
Damn yardies!
Cyah even give the man a complement!

Hahahaha,

Its a Yardie that wrote the article you know.

Just goes to show that all kinds of people exist.

I am sure there are many Trinis that have negative things to say about Lara too. Such is life.

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2007, 08:31:01 AM »
Insularity will always plague our cricket...sadly to say...

God is de BOSS...

It also makes it interesting.

Shows that our people still have a spark of passion.

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2007, 08:33:00 AM »
Here is a funny discussion some Jakan friends held recently:

Have you guys heard of a story that a gunman drew his gun on Bravo in Grenada, and told him he must stop partying? Apparently, he was parting until about 3:00am, not sure, if it is true though.

V.

I am not sure, but if its true we need to get in touch with this gunman and contract him to do the same to Sarwan, Gayle, Samuels…….
 
H.
 :rotfl:
 



 

Offline fatman

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 09:49:29 AM »
WILLI you have already showed your stance toward lara in another post by equating his dominant west indian career with a CIRCUS,you seem to believe he was responsible for west indies being a one man team,you fail to aclnowledge that it is the weakminded ness of young  west indian males  that caused our cricketers not to emulate his strong willed approach to batting, and his admirable sportsmanship.
 
 comments like yours. make me believe that there is no hope for a west indian future. i actually believe it is best for the individual islands to try their luck on their own. i am an admirer of rudi webster ,hilary beckles,carl hoope'rs batsmanship,even samuel's elegance ,when samuels was accused of match fixing i supported him as a west indian, but i now pray that our islands can compete by themselves and try to develop their own players.that way we will be rid of this insularity and can develop a thriving west indian professional league.


 we west indians have shown our true colours, we do not have true love for each other a trinidadian(born and bred) will never be considered as a jamaican national hero and vice versa. if lara cannot be considered a national treasure of jamaica, and clive lloyd cannot become a national icon of trinidad and tobago, that means the west indies is not a genuine nation we are doomed to suffer from the ill effects of insularity.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 09:53:07 AM by fatman »

Offline Bitter

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 09:54:12 AM »
Damn yardies!
Cyah even give the man a complement!

Hahahaha,

Its a Yardie that wrote the article you know.

Just goes to show that all kinds of people exist.

I am sure there are many Trinis that have negative things to say about Lara too. Such is life.
that's called sarcasm...
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 10:37:48 AM »
Damn yardies!
Cyah even give the man a complement!

Hahahaha,

Its a Yardie that wrote the article you know.

Just goes to show that all kinds of people exist.

I am sure there are many Trinis that have negative things to say about Lara too. Such is life.
that's called sarcasm...


I know, look at the title of this thread. LoL

Offline weary1969

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2007, 10:41:58 AM »
That story with Bravo happen when they were in Grenada.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2007, 10:43:46 AM »
WILLI you have already showed your stance toward lara in another post by equating his dominant west indian career with a CIRCUS,you seem to believe he was responsible for west indies being a one man team,you fail to aclnowledge that it is the weakminded ness of young  west indian males  that caused our cricketers not to emulate his strong willed approach to batting, and his admirable sportsmanship.
 
 comments like yours. make me believe that there is no hope for a west indian future. i actually believe it is best for the individual islands to try their luck on their own. i am an admirer of rudi webster ,hilary beckles,carl hoope'rs batsmanship,even samuel's elegance ,when samuels was accused of match fixing i supported him as a west indian, but i now pray that our islands can compete by themselves and try to develop their own players.that way we will be rid of this insularity and can develop a thriving west indian professional league.


 we west indians have shown our true colours, we do not have true love for each other a trinidadian(born and bred) will never be considered as a jamaican national hero and vice versa. if lara cannot be considered a national treasure of jamaica, and clive lloyd cannot become a national icon of trinidad and tobago, that means the west indies is not a genuine nation we are doomed to suffer from the ill effects of insularity.

Fatman, there is a difference between deification and respect/acknowledgement. What I see here is deification, as if Lara can do now wrong. That is ludicrous. He was far from perfect, but he WAS a Windies treasure. No serious person from any island can say otherwise. Was Holding a treasure for all Trinis??? The way he is being treated here leads me to believe otherwise, even though I agree with a lot of it. I dont like Holding too much either.

Lara will be remembered in the highest esteem, all his perceived faults, soon to be forgotten.

I will close by saying that the islands individually will probably not maintain test level. We like to fool ourselves, but look at the population sizes and the competition from other sports for the scarce resources. We need to get real and stop the pipe dream. We stuck with each other, who dont like it have to bite it!

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2007, 10:53:12 AM »
Here is what the resident anti-Trini from the ReggaeBoyz site had to say about Lara:

I think we all know where I stand with West Indies cricket. First, I want it disbanded, and I'm serious about that. Second, it never was my favorite sport. I've attended 2 "first class" cricket matches in my life - the first was an exhibition with Imran Khan et al at the National Stadium, the 2nd was a recent WC match between WI and Zimbabwe.

But one thing for certain, I did enjoy the batting of Brian Lara. I'm always amazed about his footwork, esp. when compared to the immobile Gayle! If cricket had 5 more batsmen like him, I think I would actually like the sport.

I certainly will miss him. I know half the story has not been told, but from where I sit, he will be missed.

Offline Quags

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2007, 11:04:41 AM »
Trinidad and Tobago should organise small matches first ,to test the waters .Invite Canada for a game ,then say Ireland ,Scotland and Zimbabwe .Just to gauge our selves before we even ,mention breaking away lol .If we completely pulverize them teams ,then we go talk about ,going it alone .
I starting to tink we should try ,cause WI have no profit and once them men from the 80's running the show ,it go never getting better,cause we have no truly great fast bowlers,and daiz all them men want.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2007, 11:29:19 AM »
Trinidad and Tobago should organise small matches first ,to test the waters .Invite Canada for a game ,then say Ireland ,Scotland and Zimbabwe .Just to gauge our selves before we even ,mention breaking away lol .If we completely pulverize them teams ,then we go talk about ,going it alone .
I starting to tink we should try ,cause WI have no profit and once them men from the 80's running the show ,it go never getting better,cause we have no truly great fast bowlers,and daiz all them men want.
I was reading an article about Sri Lanka which said that 20 years ago they were real tata and look at them Now  :o
so there IS HOPE for TnT against the World... ;)
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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Offline Quags

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2007, 11:43:34 AM »
Yep ,all we need is one great spinner like them .And ,am sure a lot of potencially great will start cropping up .Another ting is discipline,there is none ,bur Trinbago alone will have a captain ,who could yell out ah man ,and he go have to humble.U tink anybody could yell at Gayle ,he go run tell the JA fed, on him .
But It will not happen ,them island go complain ,and say we distroying the unity ,and we tink we better.steuppss so we stuck,witha bunch ah losers.

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2007, 12:29:51 PM »
Yep ,all we need is one great spinner like them .And ,am sure a lot of potencially great will start cropping up .Another ting is discipline,there is none ,bur Trinbago alone will have a captain ,who could yell out ah man ,and he go have to humble.U tink anybody could yell at Gayle ,he go run tell the JA fed, on him .
But It will not happen ,them island go complain ,and say we distroying the unity ,and we tink we better.steuppss so we stuck,witha bunch ah losers.

Compre, TnT is a part of the "losers" too. No magic gonna happen by going it alone. Long term prognosis is poor. Best to hope for is being a big Bermuda. Ireland much bigger in population and they are still minnows.

I trying to tell you that we are all suffering from the same syndrome. Today you may feel you are the big criicketing dawg in the region, but 5 years ago I heard Jakans saying the same thing and making THE SAME ARGUMENTS I READ HERE. If I am to believe what I read here, all the problems stem from Gayle and Samuels ...just like some yardies try to blame all Windies problems on Lara. 2 sides, same  coin. Lack of a mature outlook all around.

Wake up people, we sink or swim together. You want to sink or swim, we have a choice you know.

Last point, I find it funny that you say if you break away you will get all kind of tongue lashing from the rest of the islands!!! Welcome to the club, as I still reading Trini lashes on line for Federation that happened before all a wi born!

Offline fatman

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2007, 12:35:37 PM »
 willi you call praising a man deifiation, i hardly think trinidadians deify lara, these posts commemorating his retirement were  supposed to be  reflection  of a great career yet many people still choose this forum to criticize him. i have never seen a nation (if west indies is that) criticize a national sporting hero in the manner that lara has been pillored  through out his career. barbadian rudi webster a world famous sports psychologist says he has never seen an athlete more criticized( he calls it demonized).

 i just ask for balance in reporting lara has been unfairly treated by the media, including michael  holding,colin croft  and andy roberts who were child hood heroes of mine .the disgusting tone of their comments have sickened me ,since their playing days they have made no significant contribution to west indies cricket. they publicly encourage international announcers to chastize their countryman? and their articles on british sites are disgraceful.


further more their criticisms of failed performers such as marlon samuels and carl hooper have always been muted.i wonder why? i am of bajan and vincentian heritage.but the west indies is only a geographical entity.  our responses to the west indies cricket team and brian lara, carl hooper,chris gayle just demonsrate this.

  it is obvious there is no unity within  the west indies i acknowledge that trinidadians have also been insular. the point is our nationalistic sentiments lie with our islands, it is obvous that our governments and people are not able to worktogether for the betterment of west indies cricket which was a great institution . new zealand is by far the best rugby team ever and their population is far from significant.

i am taking about a natural progression i surely believe we were never a truly unified nation and a read in any caribbeanl news paper will show you that. barbadios and trinidad were at logger heads over territorial waters, jamaica and trinidad are arguing over a trade agreement ,we are sovereign nations who share similar histories and cultures. do you really believe that if lara was a jamaican the jamaican sentiment towards him would have been the same, if chris gayle was trinidadian what kind of support would he have recieved. the problem becomes unbearable when the sentiments lie with selectors and influential people.


a prominent barbadian diplomat recently highlighted the fact that trinidad and tobago was trying to take over the west indies cricket board,what were his thoughts when 3/4s of the board were from his home land. he went on to say trinidad wants the headquarters of west indies cricket carried there. trinidad is building an 850 million dollar academy dedicated to sporting excellence; he obviously does not want west indies cricket to move to this local. my question is if an international academy is bulit in montego bay, would the jamaican authorities not insure that their prime sports benefit from training there, but this barbadian calls this a highjacking of west indies cricket. this is the reality of these islands we call the west indies, lara is gone and it will continue to be as we say the same khaky pants.



 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 11:47:40 AM by fatman »

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2007, 02:30:41 PM »
willi you call praising a man deifiation, i hardly think trinidadians deify lara, these posts commemorating his retirement were  supposed to be  reflection  of a great career yet many people still choose this forum to criticize him. i have never seen a nation (if west indies is that) criticize a national sporting hero in the manner that lara has been pillored  through out his career. barbadian rudi webster a world famous sports psychologist says he has never seen an athlete more criticized( he calls it demonized).

 i just ask for balance in reporting lara has been unfairly treated by the media, including michael  holding,colin croft  and andy roberts who were child hood heroes of mine .the disgusting tone of their comments have sickened me ,since their playing days they have made no significant contribution to west indies cricket. they publicly encourage international announcers to chastize their countryman? and their articles on british sites are disgraceful.


further more their criticisms of failed performers such as marlon samuels and carl hooper have always been muted.i wonder why? i am of bajan and vincentian heritage.but the west indies is only a geographical entity.  our responses to the west indies cricket team and brian lara, carl hooper,chris gayle just demonsrate this.

  it is obvious there is no unity within  the west indies i acknowledge that trinidadians have also been insular. the point is our nationalistic sentiments lie with our islands, it is obvous that our governments and people are not able to worktogether for the betterment of west indies cricket which was a great institution . new zealand is by far the best rugby team ever and their population is far from significant.

i am taking about a natural progression i surely believe we were never a truly unified nation and a read in any caribbeanl news paper will show you that. barbadios and trinidad were at logger heads over territorial waters, jamaica and trinidad are arguing over a trade agreement ,we are sovereign nations who share similar histories and cultures. do you really believe that if lara was a jamaican the jamaican sentiment towards him would have been the same, if chris gayle was trinidadian what kind of support would he have recieved. the problem becomes unbearable when the sentiments lie with selectors and influential people.


a prominent barbadian diplomat recently highlighted the fact that trinidad and tobago was trying to take over the west indies cricket board,what were his thoughts when 3/4s of the board were from his home land. he went on to say trinidad wants the headquarters of west indies cricket carried there. as we are building an 850 million dollar academy dedicated to sporting excellence; he obviously does not want west indies cricket to move to this local. my question is if an international academy is bulit in montego bay, would the jamaican authorities not insure that their prime sports benefit from training there, but this barbadian calls this a highjacking of west indies cricket. this is the reality of these islands we call the west indies, lara is gone and it will continue to be as we say the same khaky pants.



 

When last, if ever NZ win a World Cup of Rugby. How many countries play that sport seriously?

Do you know of the animosity in Pakistan, India and Australia over cricket picks. Perth and the rest of W. Austr. swear that they are always snubbed.

Do you have perfect peace in your family? Is that a reason to disband it?

The balance that is lacking is here in the notion that one  man is a perfect saint and that the forces of the world conspired against him. Sure he had many enemies due to jealousy, but some were legit too. Lara had his flaws like any other man and he had more than his share of animosity too. He was not the most disciplined Windies player ever, even as he was a batting genius. The current crop, Jakans included are a spoiled bunch...very indisciplined...I have no probs admitting that. I hold no brief for any of them.

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2007, 02:34:05 PM »
Now see what a Non-yardie wrote about Lara...since some here think Jakans hold an exclusive franchise on criticizing Lara:

Flawed legacy of Lara's mortal genius
Sambit Bal
April 19, 2007

Brian Lara has been a peerless batsman © Getty Images


Saturday could be the last time we watch Brian Lara in an international match. Anyone who has a feel for cricket will mourn his loss, for no batsman in the last 15 years has brought more joy to spectators. But paradoxically, West Indian cricket is unlikely to miss him.
Lara's legacy will be deeply flawed as he has been the most mortal of geniuses. Any human, however talented, must be granted his indiscretions, and Lara has always been a complex character. His batting, a hostage to his moods, has touched extraordinary highs and inexplicable lows. But that's the essence of Lara and the peaks have been so rewarding that it's been easy to overlook the troughs.
To judge Lara's contribution to West Indian cricket, it is essential to separate his batting from his leadership. Lara the batsman is peerless, light years ahead of his compatriots who have struggled to match the deeds of their predecessors. Lara the leader has been diametrically opposite. Aloof and whimsical are the mild words used to describe him. The stronger ones are selfish, vindictive and unbecoming.
It is hardly a secret that Lara was foisted as captain by Ken Gordon, the president of the West Indies Cricket Board and a fellow Trinidadian, after the infamous row between the board and the players over sponsorship in 2005. A majority of the then selection committee didn't want him and none of the members of the present one want him either. But Gordon, in a move that will be familiar to most cricket fans in the subcontinent, imposed his will on them, and might want do so again. However, his hold on the board has been weakened following the World Cup debacle, and if the selectors have their way, Lara will not make the West Indian touring party for the trip to England in May. Not as captain, not even as player.
While it would be unfair to blame one person, however powerful, for the abjectness of an entire team, those in the know firmly believe that the rot begins right at the top. Lara, they say, has never allowed the team to settle down, and worse, done his best to undermine any player who has crossed his path.
Of course, barring occasional outbursts against the selectors, he has been a model of rectitude and decorum in public, always choosing the right words, and hitting the right notes. In his press conference before the game against Bangladesh at Kensington Oval on Thursday, he repeated his apology to cricket fans and talked about the disappointment of the Caribbean nations. "The need to show character" was a phrase that came up repeatedly.

Two faced: as a leader Lara has been selfish and vindictive © Getty Images


Yet, Lara, who will retire from one-day internationals after the tournament, stands accused of destroying the character of the team more than anyone else. On the field, he has been eccentric and unpredictable and some of his tactics have bordered on the bizarre. Some of his improvisations, like opening the bowling with Wavell Hinds and Dwayne Smith, have borne fruit, and he has been persuasive in arguing that he has used innovation as a surprise weapon due to the lack of too many real ones at his disposal. "I wouldn't have needed to experiment if I was leading Australia ," he said during last year's Champions Trophy.
But some of the selections defied logic and cricket sense. For much of last year, Ian Bradshaw and Jerome Taylor were the team's best one-day bowlers. Bradshaw was outstanding with the new ball, often bowled his overs through and conceded about 40 runs. Taylor was beginning to master operating at the death, delivering at pace and firing in yorkers. Both have found themselves dropped repeatedly and Bradshaw has been used at first change and sometimes even at the death where he has been easy meat at his pace.
Lara picked the rookie Lendl Simmons as a batsman in the World Cup and put him at No. 8, and in the crucial, near knock-out match against New Zealand , he chose to hand a one-day debut to the 19-year-old Keiron Pollard while dropping Marlon Samuels, in whom he had expressed faith only a few weeks earlier.
Off the field, he has set a poor example to his team-mates when it comes to behaviour and personal work ethic. Genius must receive an allowance, and tales of Garry Sobers turning up at a match after a night of revelry abound in these parts. But Sobers played in a different era and he was captain for only a short part of his career. Lara has led a bunch of impressionable and far less talented individuals much prone to the risk of being led astray.
And he has been severe on the players who he has come to dislike. Ramnaresh Sarwan, a captaincy candidate who has a far better record in both forms of the game than most current players, had the mortification of being dropped on the tour of Pakistan and others have had their batting positions shuffled. Some are believed to be dead against him, while many others live in fear. It is not only a team lacking faith in its own ability, but lacking faith in their leader.
The cricket world will be poorer for Lara's departure, but for West Indian cricket it could be the way forward. It's a tragedy. Lara ought to be remembered as one of the most special batsmen in the history of the game and not a captain whose whims and sullenness destabilised an already feeble team.
Click here to comment on the article.

Sambit Bal is the editor of Cricinfo and Cricinfo Magazine

Offline fatman

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2007, 07:02:14 AM »
 This is not about lara ,this is about an institution that is failing in more than one area, caricom is a toothless entity, the university of west indies have campus identities of their own and west indian governments and cricket institutions have failed to come together to stem the decline of a team that has been on the down swing for over twelve years.every country wants to establish its own cricket academy we have one in antigua,one in trinidad,one in barbados ,one in grenada and the west indian teams have none.will i love to see a united west indies in sport,politics and economics ? YES!!!would this togetherness make us a more powerful world force in these fields? yes!! is this hope realistic? NO! it has been over half a century that this unity has been touted (before federation) and it has not come to fruition because we are not a nation in any form or fashion.


this is not about winning or losing it is about charting a way forward with people of a common identity. we will still have problems with players from the south of an island being favoured over players from the north.but the game will be  more easily administrated and competition between the islands may assist in raising the level of play.this is not an emotional  response ,it is being realistic. i would love to see west indian cricket continue but is this going to happen?and if it does, how will it be managed?,will the insularity not raise its head again. jamaica and trinidad have qualified for football world cups,each island has a culture and tradition in the sport that they can use.why are we not one in football or athletics. our development as a cricket nation was an anomally it was not a natural progression because we have come together for nothing else(possibly UWi,caricom is a toothless entity) even the united kingdom is falling apart because its formation was not a natural event
 

by the way rugby has a similar genesis to cricket in that it was popularized by commonwealth countries. the sport is played by many more international  nations than cricket (every region in the world has teams that play at a fairly high level except the caribbean and central america) and the rugby world cup like cricket is listed by many publications as the 3rd largest sporting tournament in the world. new zealand though they have underperfomed at world cups (there have only been a hand ful of world cups they have won one and been perenial finalist or semifinal ist in the others)are considered by most experts to be the most consiistent team in the history of world rugby and international sport. there has been no era that they have not been near the top,they export coaches to every major country the way saudi arabia exports oil, and appear to have a never ending assembly line of top players with an extremely small population . in the sport of rugby union they have always been the nation that has set the bench mark for success.do some research ,you need not look any further than the land of ackee and saltfish and their success in track and field, it is difficult the point is it can be done.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 11:49:27 AM by fatman »

Offline weary1969

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2007, 09:27:08 PM »
From the days of Eric Williams when 10 from 1  is 0 we not united. The sayin tht the only unifying force is WI cricket and UWI is a fallacy I attended UWI Mona and I supporting WI cricket since 1981 and it eh united. These 2 institutions continue to function because there are more benefits to be enjoyed by there existance and their non existance. Insularity has been around since King Hatchet was a Hammer. Ask Rangy Nanan he will tell u he was not selected for a test match so that Garner could play a  game a be a snr player thereby getting more money.
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Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2007, 01:52:58 AM »
From the days of Eric Williams when 10 from 1  is 0 we not united. The sayin tht the only unifying force is WI cricket and UWI is a fallacy I attended UWI Mona and I supporting WI cricket since 1981 and it eh united. These 2 institutions continue to function because there are more benefits to be enjoyed by there existance and their non existance. Insularity has been around since King Hatchet was a Hammer. Ask Rangy Nanan he will tell u he was not selected for a test match so that Garner could play a  game a be a snr player thereby getting more money.

Thank you sir.

I agree that there is insularity all around and NO shortage of it in TnT. If you read the posts here, people act as if everyone else is insular EXCEPT TnT who apparently is always being victimized. THAT is my point.

On the other hand, when Caribs are abroad, we get on very well and stick together. We then become insular to the rest of the world en bloc. LoL. I am tired to tell people that Ato had nvere met me before and did me a big favor ONLY because I was a fellow Carib. I also reported that on the European circuit where I have spoken with many Carib athletes and coaches and never once did they say a bad word about him. Indeed, all I heard were compliments from these people who had good contact with him. I am not saying this to swell his head, but only to illustrate the point that we do indeed get along.

This shows me that , yes, there is something that unites us afterall, even if it only takes relative adversity to bring it out. To further illustrate the point, I dont expect any riots in Jamaica if Ganga is made captain. Sure, there are some who question his batting, but equally there are those who respect his leadership qualities.

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2007, 02:04:27 AM »
This is not about lara ,this is about an institution that is failing in more than one area, caricom is a toothless entity, the university of west indies have campus identities of their own and west indian governments and cricket institutions have failed to come together to stem the decline of a team that has been on the down swing for over twelve years.every country wants to establish its own cricket academy we have one in antigua,one in trinidad,one in barbados ,one in grenada and the west indian teams have none.will i love to see a united west indies in sport,politics and economics ? YES!!!would this togetherness make us a more powerful world force in these fields? yes!! is this hope realistic? NO! it has been over half a century that this unity has been touted (before federation) and it has not come to fruition because we are not a nation in any form or fashion.


this is not about winning or losing it is about charting a way forward with people of a common identity. we will still have problems with players from the south of an island being favoured over players from the north.but the game will be  more easily administrated and competition between the islands may assist in raising the level of play.this is not an emotional  response ,it is being realistic. i would love to see west indian cricket continue but is this going to happen?and if it does, how will it be managed?,will the insularity not raise its head again. jamaica and trinidad have qualified for football world cups,each island has a culture and tradition in the sport that they can use.why are we not one in football or athletics. our development as a cricket nation was an anomally it was not a natural progression because we have come together for nothing else(possibly UWi,caricom is a toothless entity) even the united kingdom is falling apart because its formation was not a natural event
 

by the way rugby has a similar genesis to cricket in that it was popularized by commonwealth countries. the sport is played by many more international  nations than cricket (every region in the world has teams that play at a fairly high level except the caribbean and central america) and the rugby world cup like cricket is listed by many publications as the 3rd largest sporting tournament in the world. new zealand though they have underperfomed at world cups (there have only been a hand ful of world cups they have won one and been perenial finalist or semifinal ist in the others)are considered by most experts to be the most consiistent team in the history of world rugby and international sport. there has been no era that they have not been near the top,they export coaches to every major country the way saudi arabia exports oil, and appear to have a never ending assembly line of top players with an extremely small population . in the sport of rugby union they have always been the nation that has set the bench mark for success.do some research ,you need not look any further than the land of ackee and saltfish and their success in track and field, it is difficult the point is it can be done.

Fatman,

I do know a bit about NZ,as I support only them in the WCup. However, when U frame it as U did, I am forced to  concede the point. Perhaps I am just disappointed in them in general.

Jamaica is a bad example, as we are highly leveraged in T&F. In other words, this causes other sports to suffer (even the more popular sport, football). TnT is even more soccer mad and is trying to focus more on T&F. With and even smaller population base, I just dont see a viable future for TnT International cricket. The consistency over the years will not be there....unless U drop football and athletics...and that aint gonna happen. No, Windies is the sole viable cricketing entity on the international level and its a gross dereliction of duty to try and abdicate from the collective responsibility of fixing it. Running away is NOT the solution and deep down we ALL know it.

All this talk about unity is comical when U think of it. Is Trinidad and Tobago united? Why so, more than anywhere else in the region. The Dutch ABC islands broke up, Antigua/Barbuda did, Angullia went off too, so where do we stop with this? Trinidad gonna play a diff team than Tobago?

Personally, if TnT were to split up I would not be happy and I dont even have a vested interest....just an emotional attachment.

No, I say we stand tall and fix out business like adults. This resigned attitude cant help us.

Like it or not, we stuck with each other.
We can run, but we cant hide from ourselves.

Long live the West Indies. We are great, but we refuse to see it for some inexplicable reason.

Offline fatman

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2007, 04:12:55 AM »
 willi you are intitled to your opinion,and believe me i do respect it.i never suggested that insularity does not exist in trinidad and tobago both towards the west indian islands and between ourselves.i never suggested that we would not be stronger as a unified body,as a matter of fact i think we will.however i am suggesting that our west indian ness is failing to benefit our islands politically or economically getting along in the metro pole does nothing to benefit the poor man in trelawney,demerara or moruga; i am also suggesting that with all our caribbeanness our greatest institution has been ailing for two decades and we have been unable  come together to do nothing to adress that.i also believe that this insularity is a very pwerful thing because it is genuine in that there is no true nationalistic sentiment to buffer its effects.


trinidad and tobago do have deep seated problems but at the end of the day there is a genuine nationhood between us.in many areasl the south of TNT has always claimed neglect by the north, i am not so simpleminded as to suggest that there are not social differences within islands. and by the way rangie nanan while he was good ,never kept himself in proper physical condition for me to argue about him being dropped,he could lose a game for you any time with his poor feilding.


our west indian experiments have largrely been failures the university and the EC dollar possible exceptions.(there have been several examples to prove this in the last few years).globalization is upon us now and if we dont do it in the present we never will.relationships betwen the governments of arguably the three most powerful island states are worst than they ever were and the one institution that helped us to stand out in the world is dieing.we have not even been able to use the university to develop our technical and administrative competencies in the sport of cricket.i attended UWI (st augustine)relationships betwen caribbean nations in particular jamaicans and trinidadians were always strained.


what is the sense in calling our selves a west indian nation when our alliance does not benefit the common man.i will list 3 examples

1 trnidad and tobagos manufacturers not realising they are dependant on our island neighbours to purchase our products.

2 caribbean islands choosing to sign agreements with venezuela that could impinge on trinidad and tobagos export of petro chemicals to them.

3 trinidad and barbados having to go to geneva to dispute territorial waters.


this is not my wish but my opinion.

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2007, 05:20:34 AM »
willi you are intitled to your opinion,and believe me i do respect it.i never suggested that insularity does not exist in trinidad and tobago both towards the west indian islands and between ourselves.i never suggested that we would not be stronger as a unified body,as a matter of fact i think we will.however i am suggesting that our west indian ness is failing to benefit our islands politically or economically getting along in the metro pole does nothing to benefit the poor man in trelawney,demerara or moruga; i am also suggesting that with all our caribbeanness our greatest institution has been ailing for two decades and we have been unable  come together to do nothing to adress that.i also believe that this insularity is a very pwerful thing because it is genuine in that there is no true nationalistic sentiment to buffer its effects.


trinidad and tobago do have deep seated problems but at the end of the day there is a genuine nationhood between us.in many areasl the south of TNT has always claimed neglect by the north, i am not so simpleminded as to suggest that there are not social differences within islands. and by the way rangie nanan while he was good ,never kept himself in proper physical condition for me to argue about him being dropped,he could lose a game for you any time with his poor feilding.


our west indian experiments have largrely been failures the university and the EC dollar possible exceptions.(there have been several examples to prove this in the last few years).globalization is upon us now and if we dont do it in the present we never will.relationships betwen the governments of arguably the three most powerful island states are worst than they ever were and the one institution that helped us to stand out in the world is dieing.we have not even been able to use the university to develop our technical and administrative competencies in the sport of cricket.i attended UWI (st augustine)relationships betwen caribbean nations in particular jamaicans and trinidadians were always strained.


what is the sense in calling our selves a west indian nation when our alliance does not benefit the common man.i will list 3 examples

1 trnidad and tobagos manufacturers not realising they are dependant on our island neighbours to purchase our products.

2 caribbean islands choosing to sign agreements with venezuela that could impinge on trinidad and tobagos export of petro chemicals to them.

3 trinidad and barbados having to go to geneva to dispute territorial waters.


this is not my wish but my opinion.


Fatman,

You are intelligent and sincere. There are more people like U in the Caribbean. Thus, I suggest that the problem CAN be fixed on that basis alone.

The real issue is the quality of political representation and the fact we are geographically separate. With all the money we waste everywhere else, if we wanted deeper integration, we should have invested in a first class intra-island transport system.

Part of my purpose in posting here is to help people here take the log out of their eyes before looking to take the sliver out of others. I do the same on Jakan dominated sites as well. People like to pretend to be the victims and point fingers. However, if we cant be honest with ourselves first, how will we move forward?

Peace breddah.

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2007, 11:00:07 AM »
 blessings from my side.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2007, 07:53:58 PM »
The reason we does say we not insular is because we doh have nobody bawlin down the place for TNT players. We neva boycott when they drop Murray eh play Gray and doh talk bout Lara breakin the regional record and cyah make the side. I eh evn go talk bout Dhanraj and now M'hmmed

B'dos boycott for Anderson Cummings. Some of u younguns may ask Anderson who????????. Yes the 40 yr old who play for Canada once played for the WI.

Whether we insular or is not the point it have nuff insularity to go around
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2007, 04:07:32 AM »
The reason we does say we not insular is because we doh have nobody bawlin down the place for TNT players. We neva boycott when they drop Murray eh play Gray and doh talk bout Lara breakin the regional record and cyah make the side. I eh evn go talk bout Dhanraj and now M'hmmed

B'dos boycott for Anderson Cummings. Some of u younguns may ask Anderson who????????. Yes the 40 yr old who play for Canada once played for the WI.

Whether we insular or is not the point it have nuff insularity to go around

So I guess only Barbados insular???
What about Jamaica, or Guyana?
If Tnt not insular, how U explain the tone and reaction on this same board?

Lara was a genius batsman that made the whole ah we proud. Even as a Jakan, cricket people would start conversation bout Lara to me here in Europe. However, we also know bout his indiscretions. I am just asking for balnce.

Personally, I love Laraand would buy him a drink anytime I see him, DESPITE the fact that he has PERSONAL issues with Jamaicans (I guess he has not met the right ones, can happen U know) LoL. A pal of mine living in TnT approached Lara for a handshake and to give congrats and he was rebuffed owing to his accent. Is that proper? I dont think so, but it may reflect some bad experience that Brian had. I hope we cn move past that.

I have never personally visited TnT, but I used to conduct business with counterparts there. My interactions have always been positive and my impression of the country and culture is overwhelmingly positive. I love TnT too, and I am a Jkana who never set foot there. The culture, the people, the dynamism ...everything is compelling.

Offline willi

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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2007, 05:16:08 AM »
Another Jakan...

A special Lara moment

Thursday, April 26, 2007


I remember the first time I heard about Brian Lara. It was the mid-80s. Then Jamaica Under-19 manager Len Chambers had just returned from the age-group tournament in the eastern Caribbean.

And as I am always inclined to do, I asked if he had seen anyone "special".

Said Chambers: "You have a little boy from Trinidad name Lara, look out fi him".

In 1987 it was Jamaica's turn to host the Under-19 tournament. Very quickly the news got around that the little left-hander from Trinidad & Tobago was special.

Most of those games were played at the leading grounds in Kingston: Sabina Park, Lucas, Kensington Park, Police Ground and Melbourne Oval.

It was a tournament that included considerable talent. Lara apart, T&T had the wrist-spinner Rajindra Dhanraj. Jamaica had James Adams, Nehemiah Perry and a youthful Robert Samuels; the Leeward Islands had Ridley Jacobs and Stuart Williams; Barbados had Roland Holder and Sherwin Campbell, and the Windward Islands, Junior Murray.

But the one all of us were talking about was Lara - with his extravagant back lift, intrepid foot work and a tendency to hold the otherwise brittle T&T batting together. Lara made the runs and Dhanraj got the wickets as T&T came out champions.

One of the more remarkable things I remember about that tournament was that even spectators at a game involving Jamaica would take a taxi, hitch a ride or jump on their bicycles to go see Lara bat at some other ground - once word came that he was at the crease.
Those who watch cricket knew they were seeing someone out of the ordinary.
Even then Lara treated spinners with disdain, though Perry showed that he could be troubled by off-spin.

Today, with the barrel so bare, Lara would have made his Test match debut long before his 22nd birthday. Back then, the West Indies selectors felt no necessity to push him. But there were many of us who felt they held him back too long.
As it turned out, Lara's maiden three-figure score, that epic 277 on a turning Sydney pitch in his fifth Test against an attack that included the equally youthful Shane Warne in January 1993 marked him internationally.

It was immediately recognised that here was one of the best players of right-arm wrist spin around. Within a few years he would be recognised as among the very best ever against that style of spin bowling; and the best in his time against any form of spin.

That knock in 1993 turned the series around. The Australians were leading 1-0 and fully expected to win the Sydney Test after scoring over 500 runs in their first innings.
Lara's wonder innings ensured the game ended in a draw and a resurgent West Indies won the next two Tests, including a heart-stopping one-run triumph in the fourth.

All of us will probably have our special Lara moment. For me, it came in the post-lunch session on the second day of the second Test against Australia at Sabina Park in 1999. West Indies had lost badly in the first Test in Port of Spain and following their disastrous 5-0 drubbing on tour of South Africa, Lara was put on probation as captain.

West Indies, replying to a modest 256 by Australia, lost four early wickets before Lara (213) and Adams (94) manufactured what turned out to be a match-winning stand of 244. It is surely one of the great partnerships of Test match history.
They batted all through that second day, with the only Windies casualty being nightwatchman Pedro Collins, who was forced to retire hurt early that morning.
Of course, Lara would follow up with that brilliant unbeaten 153 in Barbados that gave the West Indies a thrilling one-wicket win and a brief 2-1 lead in the series. The series was eventually drawn 2-2. Australia won the final Test in Antigua despite another Lara century.

To get back to my special Lara moment: Lara and Adams appeared to be gradually working themselves into a position where they could dictate terms, when the former was felled by a bouncer from Glenn McGrath.

It took a while for Lara to recover his composure and in the meantime speculation buzzed as to what McGrath, with his immaculate control and ferociously competitive nature, would deliver as his follow-up delivery. Would he bounce again, go for the yorker? Perhaps he would bowl the length ball angled across the left-handed Lara towards slip.

McGrath went for the length ball, angled across. Quick as a flash, Lara was back and across, covering his off stump. The bat came down in a flashing arc from that towering back lift and there was the satisfying "thunk" as the middle of the bat met ball. Sabina was jumping and roaring as the ball streaked to the cover boundary.

Most ordinary mortals would have been tentative, or perhaps flash wildly without the requisite movement of the feet. The edged catch to slip or 'keeper being the logical result of an uncontrolled shot, which is what the canny McGrath was hoping for.

Not Lara. No batsman ever had a greater sense of occasion. Lord, how we will miss him!
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Re: Look what this blinking yardie wrote about Lara in the Gleaner!!!
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2007, 04:11:47 PM »
I like the last article.
Soca Warriors, the pride of a nation

 

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