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Author Topic: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not  (Read 8898 times)

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Offline E-man

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A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
By: JACK BELL (New York Times)


Published: June 13, 2007

Trinidad and Tobago went to Germany last summer as the smallest nation, in terms of population, at the World Cup. This year, the Soca Warriors came to the United States for the Concacaf Gold Cup with a prodigious headache.
 
Coach Wim Rijsbergen has a team that includes only one player who went to Germany — Densill Theobald — after 16 players were barred from participating by the country’s soccer federation. The problem is money.

Federation officials and the players agree that promises were made to the players at the World Cup by Jack Warner, a powerful figure in the country, a FIFA vice president and Concacaf’s chief executive. Promises that were not kept.

“Jack Warner met with us after we tied Sweden — the top players on the team, me, Dwight Yorke, Stern John and Shaka Hislop — and told us that we would get 50 percent of the net profits from sponsorships; the boys were ecstatic,” Brent Sancho, a member of the national team who played last season in England for Gillingham but is not on the Gold Cup roster, said in a telephone interview. “Per player, I think we were talking about $300,000. The government paid each of us $150,000, but that had nothing to do with the federation, which ended up paying us something like $800.

“We wanted to know what happened to the millions from Adidas and eBay, two of our sponsors, and all we were shown was a spreadsheet that claimed expenses were greater than expected and a lot of the marketing was undervalued.”

The players threatened litigation and helped start a union for players who currently play in Trinidad and Tobago. Sancho, who played on St. John’s N.C.A.A. Division I title team in 1996, said that the players were blacklisted and that Rijsbergen, who played on the famous Dutch Clockwork Orange teams in the 1970s, was not happy, especially since he signed a four-year contract last July.

The decision to bring a team to the Gold Cup that has only one player playing outside Trinidad (Darryl Roberts at Sparta Rotterdam in the Netherlands) has left Rijsbergen with what in soccer circles is called an experimental squad.

“I cannot believe that a football federation would not select its strongest possible team for a major international tournament,” Kevin Harrison, an official at the Professional Footballers Association in England, who is consulting the Trinidadian union, said in an e-mail message. “It totally devalues the tournament and the effort that the other competing teams have put in.”

Rijsbergen failed to return messages seeking comment. Warner was not available to speak about issues unrelated to the Gold Cup.

Shaun Fuentes, a spokesman for Trinidad’s federation, said it “simply was not wise for us to have players representing us who are battling the federation.” Fuentes did confirm that Warner made assurances, which he may or may not have been authorized to make, but which the players accepted at face value.

Warner is no stranger to controversy, having been fined and reprimanded recently by FIFA for his part in the resale of World Cup tickets by a travel agency controlled by his family.

Asked if he was embarrassed by the situation, Fuentes said that “this will allow the coach to work with younger players.”

So far, that has not worked well for the Soca Warriors, who lost two first-round games in the Gold Cup, the regional championship, and played Guatemala to a 1-1 tie last night in Foxborough, Mass. It was not known if Rijsbergen would try to break his contract if the situation was not resolved (regional qualifying matches for the 2010 World Cup are expected to start early next year).

“The coach is frustrated,” Sancho said. “He said he has not been able to select his best team, and said it’s like an artist who wants to work with his best paints to paint the perfect picture. But he doesn’t have that. I want to add that Mr. Warner has done a lot for football in Trinidad, but at the same time he tends to forget that without the players, there would be no game for him to administrate.”

Offline CarenageBoy

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It's great to see this issue get such high-profile attention.

Offline royal

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De more international exposure de better.A taught Boynes was to have follow up meetings after the first?

Offline Bakes

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It's a facking embarrassment is what it is. Pity it seems like Jack have no shame...so I dunno if as necessary as this type of spotlight is...if it will amount to anything.

...and I know man have to eat eh, but to me this is like Colin Powell going to the UN in 2003 and making the case for war with Iraq:

Quote
Shaun Fuentes, a spokesman for Trinidad’s federation, said it “simply was not wise for us to have players representing us who are battling the federation.” Fuentes did confirm that Warner made assurances, which he may or may not have been authorized to make, but which the players accepted at face value.

...unless he truly believes that pack ah shit, there comes a time when one must abandon falling on your sword like a good soldier, and stand up on principle for what is right.

Offline KND2

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I kind of wondering why it is Unwise?

does he mean the players might play shit intentionally.


It have some men on the field who does be doing some re Unwise things and them not even sense Blacklisted.

We have defenders who does pass the ball straight to forwards for them to buss net.

men selling guns

Offline #4

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props to Sancho for saying exactly what needed to be said :beermug:

Offline Mose

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It's a facking embarrassment is what it is. Pity it seems like Jack have no shame...so I dunno if as necessary as this type of spotlight is...if it will amount to anything.

...and I know man have to eat eh, but to me this is like Colin Powell going to the UN in 2003 and making the case for war with Iraq:

Quote
Shaun Fuentes, a spokesman for Trinidad’s federation, said it “simply was not wise for us to have players representing us who are battling the federation.” Fuentes did confirm that Warner made assurances, which he may or may not have been authorized to make, but which the players accepted at face value.

...unless he truly believes that pack ah shit, there comes a time when one must abandon falling on your sword like a good soldier, and stand up on principle for what is right.
Why allyuh doh give Fuentes a break. Allyuh eh realise that he just officially acknowledge  that the players were blacklisted. De man have to balance doing he job and releasing info.
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Offline Slade

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Hey something has to be done about Jack Warner, he supports T&T football and on the other hand he goes and embarress us like this, somebody has got to put a leash on this him.

Offline Rhythmwize

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In the Los Angeles Times today, this was reported about this issue:

Trinidad and Tobago Coach Wim Rijsbergen has brought some refreshing honesty to the Gold Cup. He has had to deal with a boycott by his top players, who have not been paid the 2006 World Cup bonuses owed to them by Trinidad and Tobago's soccer federation. "It's tough for me to talk about it because the federation is upset if we mention it," Rijsbergen said.

But the federation can't cross swords with Rijsbergen, given his credentials. He played for the Dutch team that reached the final of the 1974 and 1978 World Cups before spending four seasons with the New York Cosmos.

Offline zuluwarrior

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Every time i read this shit or hear this man name, jackass ah talking  ah does just get pissing mad , and yuh know wah bad about this i cah do nottin about it .it is not good to wish bad on people or hate but ah realy dislike jackass forreal and ah wish lightning strike him down that is how much ah dislike im.
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Offline kounty

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2007, 11:47:23 AM »
It's a facking embarrassment is what it is. Pity it seems like Jack have no shame...so I dunno if as necessary as this type of spotlight is...if it will amount to anything.

...and I know man have to eat eh, but to me this is like Colin Powell going to the UN in 2003 and making the case for war with Iraq:

Quote
Shaun Fuentes, a spokesman for Trinidad’s federation, said it “simply was not wise for us to have players representing us who are battling the federation.” Fuentes did confirm that Warner made assurances, which he may or may not have been authorized to make, but which the players accepted at face value.

...unless he truly believes that pack ah shit, there comes a time when one must abandon falling on your sword like a good soldier, and stand up on principle for what is right.
Why allyuh doh give Fuentes a break. Allyuh eh realise that he just officially acknowledge  that the players were blacklisted. De man have to balance doing he job and releasing info.

why allyuh doh give jack a break.  yuh ent see after the sweden match...man drunk as a fish, and tell allyuh allyuh go geh money...and allyuh want dat to hole up in court?

Offline Rhythmwize

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2007, 12:09:53 PM »
Quote
why allyuh doh give jack a break.  yuh ent see after the sweden match...man drunk as a fish, and tell allyuh allyuh go geh money...and allyuh want dat to hole up in court?
Quote

If, while drunk, he promised the players money that is not available then its seems to me the appropriate and honorable thing for him to do would be to apologize and RESIGN.

Offline pass(10trini)

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2007, 12:26:11 PM »


Quote
Shaun Fuentes, a spokesman for Trinidad’s federation, said it “simply was not wise for us to have players representing us who are battling the federation.” Fuentes did confirm that Warner made assurances, which he may or may not have been authorized to make, but which the players accepted at face value.

...unless he truly believes that pack ah shit, there comes a time when one must abandon falling on your sword like a good soldier, and stand up on principle for what is right.

would you be puttng food on the table for fuentes and paying his monthly bills when the time come. Probably you should give him a call and let him know you have a bank account with a few thousands in it to take care of all his expenses for the next year or two set up for him .
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Offline Bakes

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2007, 12:54:45 PM »


Quote
Shaun Fuentes, a spokesman for Trinidad’s federation, said it “simply was not wise for us to have players representing us who are battling the federation.” Fuentes did confirm that Warner made assurances, which he may or may not have been authorized to make, but which the players accepted at face value.

...unless he truly believes that pack ah shit, there comes a time when one must abandon falling on your sword like a good soldier, and stand up on principle for what is right.

would you be puttng food on the table for fuentes and paying his monthly bills when the time come. Probably you should give him a call and let him know you have a bank account with a few thousands in it to take care of all his expenses for the next year or two set up for him .

I am so sure Fuentes will starve if he leave he TTFF wuk...God bless de TTFF fuh keeping Fuentes on its payroll or else all now de man robbing grandmothes or selling crack.



...get the fack outta here with that bullshit.

Offline Bakes

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2007, 12:59:16 PM »
It's a facking embarrassment is what it is. Pity it seems like Jack have no shame...so I dunno if as necessary as this type of spotlight is...if it will amount to anything.

...and I know man have to eat eh, but to me this is like Colin Powell going to the UN in 2003 and making the case for war with Iraq:

Quote
Shaun Fuentes, a spokesman for Trinidad’s federation, said it “simply was not wise for us to have players representing us who are battling the federation.” Fuentes did confirm that Warner made assurances, which he may or may not have been authorized to make, but which the players accepted at face value.

...unless he truly believes that pack ah shit, there comes a time when one must abandon falling on your sword like a good soldier, and stand up on principle for what is right.
Why allyuh doh give Fuentes a break. Allyuh eh realise that he just officially acknowledge  that the players were blacklisted. De man have to balance doing he job and releasing info.

Nazi Stormtroopers also had a job to do...and no, I'm not comparing the two. 

a) anyone with a sense of fairness and objectivity will see that the players are not in error here.
b) Shaun Fuentes isn't objective because of his job.  He has choice in being 'fair' or not.
c) In choosing to spout the company line he elects to not be fair to the players....UNLESS, it is his position that the players are truly in error.


If de man feel de players wrong, then by all means he should stand by his statements...if he thinks otherwise and still spouts that bullshit, then he's saying something that he knows is false. 

Simple.

Offline kicker

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2007, 01:02:34 PM »


Quote
Shaun Fuentes, a spokesman for Trinidad’s federation, said it “simply was not wise for us to have players representing us who are battling the federation.” Fuentes did confirm that Warner made assurances, which he may or may not have been authorized to make, but which the players accepted at face value.

...unless he truly believes that pack ah shit, there comes a time when one must abandon falling on your sword like a good soldier, and stand up on principle for what is right.

would you be puttng food on the table for fuentes and paying his monthly bills when the time come. Probably you should give him a call and let him know you have a bank account with a few thousands in it to take care of all his expenses for the next year or two set up for him .

I am so sure Fuentes will starve if he leave he TTFF wuk...God bless de TTFF fuh keeping Fuentes on its payroll or else all now de man robbing grandmothes or selling crack.



...get the fack outta here with that bullshit.

Fuentes' statement was a typical example of PC/PR, remain detached from the cause & loyal to the outfit/employer crap......It's a shame that a seemingly good fella like him (from the little that I know) is caught up in the strangle hold of such heinous activity of the federation....oh well.....
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 01:06:04 PM by kicker »
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Offline MEP

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2007, 01:11:57 PM »
Quote
why allyuh doh give jack a break.  yuh ent see after the sweden match...man drunk as a fish, and tell allyuh allyuh go geh money...and allyuh want dat to hole up in court?
Quote

If, while drunk, he promised the players money that is not available then its seems to me the appropriate and honorable thing for him to do would be to apologize and RESIGN.
v
Hey people have been known to put a gun to the head of a Prime Minister and have the Prime Minister sign an agreement which was upheld in Courts. While there might not be a contract the TTFF probably does have some documentation alluding to the deal with the players.

Offline Storeboy

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2007, 01:23:17 PM »
As long as FIFA support Jack as it will since they are all corrupt, AND D0N'T DEMAND a quick solution, there is nothing anyone can do save get vex.  But I love the international exposure.  Jack Warmner has no conscience and no shame.  It seems that he already sold his soul to the devil for many pounds of flesh and ducats.  His greed will finally catch up with him.  Every man will face God eventually
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Offline Mose

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2007, 01:48:21 PM »
BakeS and Kicker let me ask allyuh this... If your employer makes a move or does something that you disagree with would you automatically quit?? Why is nobody asking for Lincoln Phillips to quit? Is he not working for the same organization? How about, instead of quitting because somebody have a gripe with your employer, working to change things from within?

I eh know Fuentes, and I doh presume to know how de man thinking what his reasons are fuh staying with or leaving de wuk. I just eh see de sense behind calling fuh he to leave.

I figure people with a sense of fairness and objectivity will wait for the matter to be settled in court or arbitration. As to spouting the company line, the company line has been that there is no blacklist. Fuentes just basically stated that there was one.
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Offline kicker

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2007, 01:51:41 PM »
BakeS and Kicker let me ask allyuh this... If your employer makes a move or does something that you disagree with would you automatically quit?? Why is nobody asking for Lincoln Phillips to quit? Is he not working for the same organization? How about, instead of quitting because somebody have a gripe with your employer, working to change things from within?

I eh know Fuentes, and I doh presume to know how de man thinking what his reasons are fuh staying with or leaving de wuk. I just eh see de sense behind calling fuh he to leave.

I figure people with a sense of fairness and objectivity will wait for the matter to be settled in court or arbitration. As to spouting the company line, the company line has been that there is no blacklist. Fuentes just basically stated that there was one.

I never said he should quit. I said it's a pity that he has to make detached statements in "defense" of his employer, when such statements may be contradictory to his personal sentiment. Then again I don't know exactly what his personal sentiment is...but based on the little that I know heard of him, it's difficult to believe that deep down he's not siding with the players on this issue.....all speculation from my standpoint- discussion worthy nevertheless
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 01:59:28 PM by kicker »
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Offline johnny_ringo

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2007, 02:56:56 PM »
why people actin like Fuentes doin something they never do before?
allyuh men need to grow up.
How many of allyuh ever do something cause u HAD to because of your job?
e.g. allyuh remember that NASTY curry kfc was selling?
The kfc worker go be like "yea boy, this real on. take ah taste" but they know it nasty...but it's their job to promote the product.

Allyuh want a solution try this-
from the time the kids born teach them to read so they wouldnt have to depend on kickin a ball to feed their family. this way when Jack want to pay them in Hops bread & kiss cake they could say "Hual yuh Mudder So & So"


Offline D.H.W

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2007, 03:15:15 PM »
why people actin like Fuentes doin something they never do before?
allyuh men need to grow up.
How many of allyuh ever do something cause u HAD to because of your job?
e.g. allyuh remember that NASTY curry kfc was selling?
The kfc worker go be like "yea boy, this real on. take ah taste" but they know it nasty...but it's their job to promote the product.


Allyuh want a solution try this-
from the time the kids born teach them to read so they wouldnt have to depend on kickin a ball to feed their family. this way when Jack want to pay them in Hops bread & kiss cake they could say "Hual yuh Mudder So & So"



i find it taste good  ;D

but i get yuh point  :devil:
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Offline kicker

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2007, 03:39:16 PM »
why people actin like Fuentes doin something they never do before?
allyuh men need to grow up.
How many of allyuh ever do something cause u HAD to because of your job?
e.g. allyuh remember that NASTY curry kfc was selling?
The kfc worker go be like "yea boy, this real on. take ah taste" but they know it nasty...but it's their job to promote the product.

Allyuh want a solution try this-
from the time the kids born teach them to read so they wouldnt have to depend on kickin a ball to feed their family. this way when Jack want to pay them in Hops bread & kiss cake they could say "Hual yuh Mudder So & So"



First of all you never "have" to do anything that compromises your principles....and secondly, there are varying degrees of compromise- telling people that KFC curry chicken is tasty and detaching yourself from the players' cause are two vastly different degrees of compromise......but like I said/implied (and so did Bakes)...we're not even sure how Shaun really feels about the matter..............but IF it is that he's against what is going on, it's a pity that he has to play that role he is playing at the moment. Some may go one step further and say he should say to hell with that and fire de wuk.....that's a whole different conversation.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2007, 03:52:04 PM »
Fuentes works for TTFF. He is just delivering the message. You not supposed to shoot the messenger. Well, maybe.

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2007, 04:41:58 PM »
messenger does get kill boy  :devil: yuh aint know that lol  ;D
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Offline Storeboy

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2007, 05:09:02 PM »
I ent care what Fuentes say or do.  I want to know why the TTFF is such a bunch of spine;ess, yes-men that they have to go along with a plan to blacklist players who question the decisions of Jack Warner.  Even after FIFA say that is not rule when lying to the public about there reason's.  It is obvious that they have no plans to meet with or settle with the players.  They hoping that the Gold Cup group will become so good thta they can qualify for WC witout the overseas players.  A foolish and divisive plan
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Offline weary1969

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2007, 05:17:17 PM »
Fuentes give up a cushion wuk like dat. The man seein the world on tief money
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Offline Organic

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2007, 05:35:21 PM »
Fuentes works for TTFF. He is just delivering the message. You not supposed to shoot the messenger. Well, maybe.
like yuh eh see 300?
 messenger does get it fuss
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Offline kounty

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2007, 05:45:46 PM »
I know fuentes get Gov't bonus...more than a lot of the players themselves.  I wonder if he gettin a cut if the players win the lawsuit too? win win situation.  doh cry for me argentina.

Offline Football supporter

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Re: NY Times: A Trinidadian Dispute Runneth Over as Cup Money Does Not
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2007, 07:31:18 PM »
Guys, I think you all got to redirect your anger from Shaun Fuentes. Don't forget who's sending him out to face the press instead of doing it themselves. Fuentes didn't cause the impasse, and he's never openly supported the actions of TTFF. In most cases he tries to be as neutral as possible. Maybe he sticks around because he feels he can do more good being on the inside? Maybe he's sticking around in the hope that one day he'll work for a better TTFF? If he walks now, he'll never get the job back. Imagine if SPALK was TTFF media liaison.

Better the devil you know.

We should all focus on the people sending the message, not the guy delivering it.

 

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