Bulk of Haitian U-17 team deserts in New York

[weary1969]

Them is luggage they were retreived?

[Deeks]

Whoever organize that defection was not thinking straight. After 9/11, immigrants, illegal aliens, Ali, Mohammed, iqbal, Khan all muslim sounding names under heavy scrutiny. Those guys can't play football for any high profile team. They would not be able to get  contract with no MLS or USL team. Were these guys life threatened by death squad etc. Anything like that.....? I don't see the logic. They going to Korea to play in a big international tournament. They not going to Guantanamo. That is sad. These kids work so hard to reach this point and to have people advised them to do this is ludicrous.

[Bianconeri]

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/6924408

check this out ppls....

study Cuba missin men now!

[just cool]

You ever wonder, Haiti the first country in this hemisphere to gain Independence and the only country not enjoying the fruits of it? he answer, "crab in barrel mentality". If you are not to sure what the mean, asks your parents. They always fail to look long term.

Breds....don't be so simplistic. Haiti has a deep and complicated history and you can't look to describe it with such a statement. In any case, 'crab in a barrel menatlity' is first and foremost a symptom, moreso than the cause. By the time it appears..deep problems have already taken hold. And even if it is one of many symptoms that has arisen out of Haiti's struggles..educate yourself about what has happened and what is happening in Haiti..I doubt you will try to describe it with 4 words again

Crab in barrel ? Crab in barrel ? I live in NY for yrs and as you know we have a huge hatian community in BK. let me educate you on hatians . they are the only caribbean ppl who stick together  and help each other without fussing and fighting amoungst them self. them ppl really love and look out for each other, and that's something you wouldn't see amongst no one else.

[palos]

Fox Sportsworld Canada report last night that Lester More...the star Cuban player (de man who does always gi we fits....ah tink he did lob one a we goalies from half line in a Digicel Cup recently) and a nex player gone missing.  Pressha.

[Bakes]

how stupid and desperate are you  to disappear  on your way to korea? them haitians is something else. i'm surprised that people over there can even afford to get on a 'plane.
   how you gonna miss an opportunity to make your country proud?

This statement is fraught with stupidity.

[Bakes]

lol i would do the same if i was from Haiti or Cuba 

You musse DJ...lol

[ttcom]

just cool, I'm sorry my statement offend you, however, You base you experience of Bk. I live in bk and while it my be true of those up here its not the same in Haiti. Many of my co-worker volunteer to do project in Haiti and no came back with positive things to say. I'm also in the army reserve and some of the soldier in unit in our building did peace keeping and rebuilding in Haiti. Again nothing possible. Please give me a five year period in Haitian history where there wasn't a coop or attempted coop? At Suny downsate in Brooklyn, couple years ago, there was a drive to collect clothing and food for hurricane victim is the Caribbean countries,(Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Jamaica). However, all the stuff collect went to Haiti. It was a big rouse to get stuff for all employees to send to Haiti.
My story has now come to an end, good bye

[SUPA]

how stupid and desperate are you  to disappear  on your way to korea? them haitians is something else. i'm surprised that people over there can even afford to get on a 'plane.
   how you gonna miss an opportunity to make your country proud?

[/b]


Ah would ah expect ah comment like dat from a person in T&T, cuz dey doh have de live and direct connection wid these people, tuh know what life is like over in Haiti. I believe I do have more contact with de Haitian people dan you, cuz of my Miami/Hollywood location, but yuh in NY yuh should know better dan dat, unless yuh passing through, well den ah go forgive yuh. Ah sweat fuh yuh country doh determine how yuh go eat and live after de tournament, when yuh come from a place like Haiti, Cuba, etc. I work wid people from Haiti and lime wid dem and beat some juice, so I know de struggle dey go through tuh put food on de table in Haiti. We have crime and Jack tuh deal wid in T&T, but give thanks we doh have de problems dey have in Haiti. HIGHLY BLESSED.

[Bakes]

just cool, I'm sorry my statement offend you, however, You base you experience of Bk. I live in bk and while it my be true of those up here its not the same in Haiti. Many of my co-worker volunteer to do project in Haiti and no came back with positive things to say. I'm also in the army reserve and some of the soldier in unit in our building did peace keeping and rebuilding in Haiti. Again nothing possible. Please give me a five year period in Haitian history where there wasn't a coop or attempted coop? At Suny downsate in Brooklyn, couple years ago, there was a drive to collect clothing and food for hurricane victim is the Caribbean countries,(Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Jamaica). However, all the stuff collect went to Haiti. It was a big rouse to get stuff for all employees to send to Haiti.
My story has now come to an end, good bye

I'd have to agree...the situation is definitely dog eat dog.  For many Haitian ex-pats here they've come from similar situations back home, dire poverty, oppression from the government/military...then coming here they have those experiences and the common bond of culture and nostalgia to help foster a sense of community in their new land.  In short, many reasons why ex-pats would bond here and why you won't find the same situation back home.  To further explain, many of us back home are divided by who from South, who from East, who went which big name school from who went Jr. Sec....

When we reach in foreign all those artificial barriers that once divided us melt away and for the most part we simply see each other as Trinis in a foreign land trying to make it...and longing (again, for the most part) to return to sweet TnT.

[Filho]

just cool, I'm sorry my statement offend you, however, You base you experience of Bk. I live in bk and while it my be true of those up here its not the same in Haiti. Many of my co-worker volunteer to do project in Haiti and no came back with positive things to say. I'm also in the army reserve and some of the soldier in unit in our building did peace keeping and rebuilding in Haiti. Again nothing possible. Please give me a five year period in Haitian history where there wasn't a coop or attempted coop? At Suny downsate in Brooklyn, couple years ago, there was a drive to collect clothing and food for hurricane victim is the Caribbean countries,(Dominican Republic, Haiti, and Jamaica). However, all the stuff collect went to Haiti. It was a big rouse to get stuff for all employees to send to Haiti.
My story has now come to an end, good bye

I'd have to agree...the situation is definitely dog eat dog.  For many Haitian ex-pats here they've come from similar situations back home, dire poverty, oppression from the government/military...then coming here they have those experiences and the common bond of culture and nostalgia to help foster a sense of community in their new land.  In short, many reasons why ex-pats would bond here and why you won't find the same situation back home.  To further explain, many of us back home are divided by who from South, who from East, who went which big name school from who went Jr. Sec....

When we reach in foreign all those artificial barriers that once divided us melt away and for the most part we simply see each other as Trinis in a foreign land trying to make it...and longing (again, for the most part) to return to sweet TnT.

Yeah..I don't think anyone can disagree with what you saying BnS. Spot on. It's just that so many things have happened that have led to this modern-day Haiti and the causes were not simply down to 'crab in a barrel mentality'. And TTcom should think about this: After Haiti's slave revolt and freedom, the new state of Haiti supported the abolitionist cause wherever possible. Haiti aided Francisco de Miranda and Simón Bolívar, letting them hide out in Haiti on condition that they free Latin America's slaves. THAT is the completely opposite of crab in a barrel mentality. haiti was looking out for much more than themsleves and it is believed that they inspred most other nations in the nwe world to fight against slavery. The way I see it is Haiti's economy was crushed from since the 19th century. Because of their revolutionary act..they never had a  'relatively peaceful' transition period to independence...and no support from their colonial masters like other caribbean islands. The French did not give up easily, reclaiming the country after the first successful revolution...then bankrupting the economy by demanding millions upon millions of francs as repatriation and to prevent a full scale French aattack on the island. Haiti's landscape and economy was ravaged. Even the American occupation which brought some order and much needed infrastructure further destroyed the economy..as nothing comes for free. Haiti didn't stand much of a chance...their violent fight for fredom and its status as a pariah meant the country never recovered form the socia-economic damage that occurred in the 19th century. Most of the wealthy (and consequently well educated) also fled with their riches and human capital. All this led to a vaccuum of power..and in a new country that is still learning to govern itself will always lead to miltary dictatorship, power struggles, divisions and atrocity. Sure, not all haiti's problems should be blamed on external sources or circumstance...every man has to look at himself and take responsibility of his actions. But trying to break down what is going on with Haiti like that...I guess it just didn't seem right to me.

[Flash7]

Korea Republic hosting U-17 Tournament of Eight Nations

Group Phases

June 16-21, 2007

Group A (Goyang, Suwon, Cheonan)
Korea Republic
Brasil             
Haïti             
Ghana           

Group B (Gwangyang, Changwon, Ulsan)
Japan         
USA         
New Zealand
Nigeria       

Match for 3rd Place
June 23, 2007
Between the second placed teams from Group A & B

Final
June 23, 2007
Between the first placed teams from Group A & B

[Bakes]

Yeah..I don't think anyone can disagree with what you saying BnS. Spot on. It's just that so many things have happened that have led to this modern-day Haiti and the causes were not simply down to 'crab in a barrel mentality'. And TTcom should think about this: After Haiti's slave revolt and freedom, the new state of Haiti supported the abolitionist cause wherever possible. Haiti aided Francisco de Miranda and Simón Bolívar, letting them hide out in Haiti on condition that they free Latin America's slaves. THAT is the completely opposite of crab in a barrel mentality. haiti was looking out for much more than themsleves and it is believed that they inspred most other nations in the nwe world to fight against slavery. The way I see it is Haiti's economy was crushed from since the 19th century. Because of their revolutionary act..they never had a  'relatively peaceful' transition period to independence...and no support from their colonial masters like other caribbean islands. The French did not give up easily, reclaiming the country after the first successful revolution...then bankrupting the economy by demanding millions upon millions of francs as repatriation and to prevent a full scale French aattack on the island. Haiti's landscape and economy was ravaged. Even the American occupation which brought some order and much needed infrastructure further destroyed the economy..as nothing comes for free. Haiti didn't stand much of a chance...their violent fight for fredom and its status as a pariah meant the country never recovered form the socia-economic damage that occurred in the 19th century. Most of the wealthy (and consequently well educated) also fled with their riches and human capital. All this led to a vaccuum of power..and in a new country that is still learning to govern itself will always lead to miltary dictatorship, power struggles, divisions and atrocity. Sure, not all haiti's problems should be blamed on external sources or circumstance...every man has to look at himself and take responsibility of his actions. But trying to break down what is going on with Haiti like that...I guess it just didn't seem right to me.

I can't give a very detailed response right now owing to other committments...but I totally agree.  Except, my guess would be that ttcom was likely referring more to Haiti's recent history...recent as in the latter part of the 20th Century, with the reigns of the Duvalier and the failed leadership of Aristide, Preval et al.

[Toussaint]

Right on, filho. After I read the first comments I simply smiled knowing that those brothers are simply repeating what the unforgiving white world want them to believe.

Here are some events that sealed Haiti's fate:

1802-1803 Independence war.
1803-1915 Maritime embargo by Britain in an attempt to isolate the new black republic.
1807-1820 In order to stop black slavery in South America, Haiti provided financial and military support to Miranda and Bolivar and in lieu of restitution Haiti only required that all Blacks in South America be freed, which Bolivar did.
1820-1824 Spain convinced the USA to enforce the British embargo to avoid a black revolution in the US. Spain, France, Britain (3 superpowers then), USA and the newly created latin countries isolated Haiti and started an anti-voodoo propaganda which at times made the rest of the world believe that Haitians practiced cannibalism in secret ceremonies.
1821-1843 Haiti was forced to invade and occupy DR to avoid that Spain moved back to the Island.
1843-1851 Haiti vs DR wars. DR defeated the Haitian army with the help of the French who actually lost DR to Haiti a few years earlier.
1870-1880 Spain almost destroyed Port-au-Prince. France unsuccessfully tried to regain control of Haiti. Britain destroyed Haiti's northern cities. Prussia (modern day Germany) destroyed Haiti's latest fleet.
1880-1914 Civil unrest between blacks and mulattoes.
1914-1936 American occupation. Anti-American Guerilla led by Peralte and the cacos. Hollywood started voodoo movies that will eventually make voodoo synonimous to satanism.
1936-1956 Puppet presidents handpicked by the US
1956-1985 Duvalier era. Duvalier sent thousands of Haiti's most educated people to West Africa to help built the newly independent African countries.
1985-1991 post-Duvalier crisis. AIDS propaganda in the US killed Haiti's tourist industry.
1991-1994 Military dictatorship. civil unrest. US and Caricom embargo on Haiti destroyed Haiti's last industries.
1994-2004 Aristide era marked by civil unrest.
2004-present Efforts being made to rebuid Haiti's institutions.

[100% Barataria]

Right on, filho. After I read the first comments I simply smiled knowing that those brothers are simply repeating what the unforgiving white world want them to believe.

Here are some events that sealed Haiti's fate:

1802-1803 Independence war.
1803-1915 Maritime embargo by Britain in an attempt to isolate the new black republic.
1807-1820 In order to stop black slavery in South America, Haiti provided financial and military support to Miranda and Bolivar and in lieu of restitution Haiti only required that all Blacks in South America be freed, which Bolivar did.
1820-1824 Spain convinced the USA to enforce the British embargo to avoid a black revolution in the US. Spain, France, Britain (3 superpowers then), USA and the newly created latin countries isolated Haiti and started an anti-voodoo propaganda which at times made the rest of the world believe that Haitians practiced cannibalism in secret ceremonies.
1821-1843 Haiti was forced to invade and occupy DR to avoid that Spain moved back to the Island.
1843-1851 Haiti vs DR wars. DR defeated the Haitian army with the help of the French who actually lost DR to Haiti a few years earlier.
1870-1880 Spain almost destroyed Port-au-Prince. France unsuccessfully tried to regain control of Haiti. Britain destroyed Haiti's northern cities. Prussia (modern day Germany) destroyed Haiti's latest fleet.
1880-1914 Civil unrest between blacks and mulattoes.
1914-1936 American occupation. Anti-American Guerilla led by Peralte and the cacos. Hollywood started voodoo movies that will eventually make voodoo synonimous to satanism.
1936-1956 Puppet presidents handpicked by the US
1956-1985 Duvalier era. Duvalier sent thousands of Haiti's most educated people to West Africa to help built the newly independent African countries.
1985-1991 post-Duvalier crisis. AIDS propaganda in the US killed Haiti's tourist industry.
1991-1994 Military dictatorship. civil unrest. US and Caricom embargo on Haiti destroyed Haiti's last industries.
1994-2004 Aristide era marked by civil unrest.
2004-present Efforts being made to rebuid Haiti's institutions.

Well said both Toussanit and Filho, fellas who are not fully aware of Haiti's full history and quick to point out to the recent history to justify their perspectives should take a read of Eric's "From Columbus to Castro" as a start, there is a chapter in there on the Haitian revolution and the aftermath of their independence, some of which Filho mentioned.  We owe it to ourseleves to full understand any issue before commenting on it in partial or complete ignorance, bless

[legal alien]

how stupid and desperate are you  to disappear  on your way to korea? them haitians is something else. i'm surprised that people over there can even afford to get on a 'plane.
   how you gonna miss an opportunity to make your country proud?

[/b]


Ah would ah expect ah comment like dat from a person in T&T, cuz dey doh have de live and direct connection wid these people, tuh know what life is like over in Haiti. I believe I do have more contact with de Haitian people dan you, cuz of my Miami location, but yuh in NY yuh should know better dan dat, unless yuh passing through, well den ah go forgive yuh. Ah sweat fuh yuh country doh determine how yuh go eat and live after de tournament, when yuh come from a place like Haiti, Cuba, etc. I work wid people from Haiti and lime wid dem and beat some juice, so I know de struggle dey go through tuh put food on de table in Haiti. We have crime and Jack tuh deal wid in T&T, but give thanks we doh have de problems dey have in Haiti. HIGHLY BLESSED.

this comment made me want to finally respond with regret. i should know better living with  haitiasns on my block. i still think that life in their country real hard, but i didnt want to sound insensitive.
  i heard that down there in miami have real haitians. and those are only those who didnt get turn back....

[ttcom]

Thank for the history lesson. It was educational, however, how long are slavery and white oppression excuses are going to be use. Bob Marley said, " free yourself from mental slavery, only ourself can free our mind".

[SUPA]

how stupid and desperate are you  to disappear  on your way to korea? them haitians is something else. i'm surprised that people over there can even afford to get on a 'plane.
   how you gonna miss an opportunity to make your country proud?

[/b]


Ah would ah expect ah comment like dat from a person in T&T, cuz dey doh have de live and direct connection wid these people, tuh know what life is like over in Haiti. I believe I do have more contact with de Haitian people dan you, cuz of my Miami location, but yuh in NY yuh should know better dan dat, unless yuh passing through, well den ah go forgive yuh. Ah sweat fuh yuh country doh determine how yuh go eat and live after de tournament, when yuh come from a place like Haiti, Cuba, etc. I work wid people from Haiti and lime wid dem and beat some juice, so I know de struggle dey go through tuh put food on de table in Haiti. We have crime and Jack tuh deal wid in T&T, but give thanks we doh have de problems dey have in Haiti. HIGHLY BLESSED.

this comment made me want to finally respond with regret. i should know better living with  haitiasns on my block. i still think that life in their country real hard, but i didnt want to sound insensitive.
  i heard that down there in miami have real haitians. and those are only those who didnt get turn back....

Respect  . HIGHLY BLESSED.

[Deeks]

Read Black Jacobins by CLR James.

[Toussaint]

Read Black Jacobins by CLR James.

In Haiti, almost all History manuals for school children are based on that book. Good read.

[Filho]

Yeah..I don't think anyone can disagree with what you saying BnS. Spot on. It's just that so many things have happened that have led to this modern-day Haiti and the causes were not simply down to 'crab in a barrel mentality'. And TTcom should think about this: After Haiti's slave revolt and freedom, the new state of Haiti supported the abolitionist cause wherever possible. Haiti aided Francisco de Miranda and Simón Bolívar, letting them hide out in Haiti on condition that they free Latin America's slaves. THAT is the completely opposite of crab in a barrel mentality. haiti was looking out for much more than themsleves and it is believed that they inspred most other nations in the nwe world to fight against slavery. The way I see it is Haiti's economy was crushed from since the 19th century. Because of their revolutionary act..they never had a  'relatively peaceful' transition period to independence...and no support from their colonial masters like other caribbean islands. The French did not give up easily, reclaiming the country after the first successful revolution...then bankrupting the economy by demanding millions upon millions of francs as repatriation and to prevent a full scale French aattack on the island. Haiti's landscape and economy was ravaged. Even the American occupation which brought some order and much needed infrastructure further destroyed the economy..as nothing comes for free. Haiti didn't stand much of a chance...their violent fight for fredom and its status as a pariah meant the country never recovered form the socia-economic damage that occurred in the 19th century. Most of the wealthy (and consequently well educated) also fled with their riches and human capital. All this led to a vaccuum of power..and in a new country that is still learning to govern itself will always lead to miltary dictatorship, power struggles, divisions and atrocity. Sure, not all haiti's problems should be blamed on external sources or circumstance...every man has to look at himself and take responsibility of his actions. But trying to break down what is going on with Haiti like that...I guess it just didn't seem right to me.

I can't give a very detailed response right now owing to other committments...but I totally agree.  Except, my guess would be that ttcom was likely referring more to Haiti's recent history...recent as in the latter part of the 20th Century, with the reigns of the Duvalier and the failed leadership of Aristide, Preval et al.

I know...just challenging him to dig deeper and ask himself - if that mentality does exist, where did it come from? Is it the cause of the problems that prevail, or a symptom of deeper problems that came long before. I think it is a little of the first and also much of the latter. Obviously the Haitian state didn't start that way. They moved to free slaves outside Haiti as well. So some early prevailing ideology was not 'crab in a basket'. What changed or shifted over time? I just dug a little into the history to get to that point. But I too am trying to discuss with the more recent history...and I simply come to the conclusion that ttcoms comments were too shallow and simplistic..just my point.

[Filho]

Thank for the history lesson. It was educational, however, how long are slavery and white oppression excuses are going to be use. Bob Marley said, " free yourself from mental slavery, only ourself can free our mind".

Ironic...physician heal thyself

[Flash7]

Continental kings prepare for finals

(FIFA.com) Friday 15 June 2007

With only two months to go before the start of the FIFA U-17 World Cup, hosts Korea Republic welcome seven qualified teams from across the globe to a mini tournament which starts on Saturday.

Although there are no European representatives, no less than five regional champions will participate in the week-long competition: eight-time South American U-17 champions Brazil, tournament regulars USA, reigning Asian champions Japan, Africa's Golden Eaglets Nigeria, and newly crowned Oceanian kings New Zealand.

Six out of eight venues for Korea 2007 - namely Changwon, Cheonan, Gangyang, Goyang, Suwon and Ulsan - will have dress rehearsals for the tournament, while the remaining two cities (Jeju and Seoul) proved themselves capable of staging a world finals five years ago.

Final tests
Curtain raisers for Group A will be held in Goyang, with Korea Republic taking on Brazil and Haiti facing off against Ghana on Saturday. Coach Park Kyung-Hoon thinks the group matches will provide a good opportunity to prepare for the finals, where the hosts will meet Peru, Costa Rica and Togo. "I'm relieved to have a chance to play against a strong African side like Ghana. Haiti are also a good team who finished first in their qualifying group," said the 45-year-old.

While the Brazilians have sent a strong party, including talismanic attacking midfielder Lulinha and star forward Maicon, Haiti may have a difficult time adapting to a week in the Far East. The Islanders had to reinforce their squad after 13 players missed their flight to Seoul, the newcomers arriving only 11 hours before kick-off.

Group B, meanwhile, looks even more intriguing due to all four teams reigning as champions of their respective continents in the youth category. USA coach John Hackworth believes the tournament will be a turning point in their preparations. "This will be a very good tournament for our players to go up against quality competition. (Before the finals) We'll also try and get to South Korea early to get accustomed to the time difference," he said.

Japan, coached by Hiroshi Jofuku, are set to entertain USA in their opening game in Gwangyang. Although their brightest star Yoichiro Kakitani could not make the trip due to his club commitments, Japan's top marksman in qualifying, Jin Hanato, will again be present to lead their line.

After the group stage, the two runners-up will play off for third place, before the group winners face each other for the title in Cheonan on Saturday, 23 June.

Eight-nation U-17 tournament

Group Stage
16-21 June 2007

Group A (Goyang, Suwon, Cheonan)
Korea Republic
Brazil
Haiti
Ghana

Group B (Gwangyang, Changwon, Ulsan)
Japan
USA
New Zealand
Nigeria

Third Place Play-off
23 June 2007
Between the runners-up in groups A & B

Final
23 June 2007
Between the winners of groups A & B

[kounty]

funny the timing of me seeing this discussion on Haiti.  I just just finsh reading the history of Zimbabwe acording to wikipedia (a 3 hr read broken up into 2 parts for a slow reader like me).  very informative fellaz and you all finally convince me to buy the Black Jacobins and finally take a read.
\doh study too much filho, it have some men who does....I dunno what some men does be doin whole day nah.
ona related theme with how the super powers "influence" what goes on in a country - today the US, Eu...all the big boys... talking about unfreezing aid to the palestenian people if a government without Hamas is 'instituted'.  never ever mind who the people of the country ELECT for their government.  talk about Democracy from one side of yuh mouth and then from the other side?  So many, many examples of this int he world...heading so with Zimbabwe...propaganda...and before some idiot tell me about GWb favourite word TERRORISM, talk to somebody who know anything about how ANY Organisation runs in the Middle East...if not Ask a Japanese man how he does make doubles and you follow he instructions.   

[Bakes]

funny the timing of me seeing this discussion on Haiti.  I just just finsh reading the history of Zimbabwe acording to wikipedia (a 3 hr read broken up into 2 parts for a slow reader like me).  very informative fellaz and you all finally convince me to buy the Black Jacobins and finally take a read.
\doh study too much filho, it have some men who does....I dunno what some men does be doin whole day nah.
ona related theme with how the super powers "influence" what goes on in a country - today the US, Eu...all the big boys... talking about unfreezing aid to the palestenian people if a government without Hamas is 'instituted'.  never ever mind who the people of the country ELECT for their government.  talk about Democracy from one side of yuh mouth and then from the other side?  So many, many examples of this int he world...heading so with Zimbabwe...propaganda...and before some idiot tell me about GWb favourite word TERRORISM, talk to somebody who know anything about how ANY Organisation runs in the Middle East...if not Ask a Japanese man how he does make doubles and you follow he instructions.   

Not to take the thread off into another tangent...but the US is absolutely correct in its position with Hamas.

Democracy or no Democracy.  Don't let your distrust/dislike/reservations...whatever, about the US cloud your perspective on what the situation in the middle east really is.