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Author Topic: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions  (Read 919139 times)

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Offline Bakes

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4770 on: January 25, 2013, 02:56:09 PM »
Many things have to be looked at when judging a keeper, NOT the least the quality of defending in front of the keeper.
Statistics can be deceiving, so I will let everyone draw their own conclusions

ManU have given up an astonishing 30 goals already this season, in comparison Man City have given up 19.

DeGea stats shows he has given up 19 goals, making 61 saves and facing 77 shots on goal. (1350 minutes played)

Hart stats shows that he has also given up 19 goals, making 41 saves and facing 61 shots on goal (2070 minutes played)

The goalkeepers seem almost balanced statistically. What ii does show is ManU's defending is questionable, while allowing way more shots on goal, if you consider minutes played.

This is all well and good... but remember the initial comparison had to do with MISTAKES that each has made.  Yeah, De Gea has had more work to do than Hart... but how many of those extra shots on goal he save were the results of parries right back into the path of a striker, or a cross he could have handled better?  I'm not saying that any of these shots necessarily were the result of such, but certainly DeGea has made more mistakes on crosses and rebounds.

Offline D.H.W

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4771 on: January 25, 2013, 08:46:22 PM »
"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid."
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Offline Observer

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4772 on: January 25, 2013, 09:38:15 PM »
You have stats for Lindegard?

The stats are only for the top 20 ranked in the league
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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4773 on: January 25, 2013, 09:43:22 PM »
Many things have to be looked at when judging a keeper, NOT the least the quality of defending in front of the keeper.
Statistics can be deceiving, so I will let everyone draw their own conclusions

ManU have given up an astonishing 30 goals already this season, in comparison Man City have given up 19.

DeGea stats shows he has given up 19 goals, making 61 saves and facing 77 shots on goal. (1350 minutes played)

Hart stats shows that he has also given up 19 goals, making 41 saves and facing 61 shots on goal (2070 minutes played)

The goalkeepers seem almost balanced statistically. What ii does show is ManU's defending is questionable, while allowing way more shots on goal, if you consider minutes played.

This is all well and good... but remember the initial comparison had to do with MISTAKES that each has made.  Yeah, De Gea has had more work to do than Hart... but how many of those extra shots on goal he save were the results of parries right back into the path of a striker, or a cross he could have handled better?  I'm not saying that any of these shots necessarily were the result of such, but certainly DeGea has made more mistakes on crosses and rebounds.

Understandable, but the facts remain the same. Devils advocate. How many of the initial shots were due to poor defending in the first place  ;D
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Offline Bakes

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4774 on: January 25, 2013, 10:36:21 PM »
Understandable, but the facts remain the same. Devils advocate. How many of the initial shots were due to poor defending in the first place  ;D

Hard to say of course... but City's defense has been the steadier of the two, so yeah... as I conceded, DeGea has had more work to do, of the two.

Offline D.H.W

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4775 on: January 26, 2013, 11:33:02 AM »
Good ref  :devil: 1nil UTD vs Fulham
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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4776 on: January 26, 2013, 11:42:16 AM »
Glad Rooney off penalty duties. He need tuh understand his strengths and limintations as player and focus on what he does well. Hustle yuh arse off and keep it simple. Leave the one twos, for players who have touch and the dribbling tuh players who have the skills to do it.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 11:48:49 AM by Giggsy11 »

Offline D.H.W

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4777 on: January 26, 2013, 12:42:18 PM »
Hernandez the poacher
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giggsy11

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4778 on: January 26, 2013, 01:24:59 PM »
Nice win-good to see Ando and Nani back. Time tuh put a run together and bag some trophies!

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4779 on: January 26, 2013, 04:40:09 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ec6CtduvM3s&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ec6CtduvM3s&amp;</a>

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/CY5Mp4iD_xA&amp;" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/CY5Mp4iD_xA&amp;</a>
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Offline Observer

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4780 on: January 27, 2013, 11:29:00 AM »
Hernandez reminds me of Inzagi. Always playing off the shoulder and looking to get behind the lines.
A real menace for defenders, and yes he can finish.
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4781 on: January 27, 2013, 11:46:48 PM »
Question regarding the Manchester United succession planning: what's so special about David Moyes?

I'm not a huge fan but he's admired around the EPL for having always kept his club close to contention despite not having the same resources (and support) that other managers have had.  I have to agree, they never spend a whole lot, I think what they did in bringing in Frei and Mirallas in the past two windows probably represents their biggest expenditure under him, and even those were modest buys.  In terms of style, philosophy and tactics I'll leave that up to those much more qualified to weigh in.

Well, ah know Fergie likes him because he's a Scot and yeah he has a steady hand over Everton ... Buh what ah heck of a calculus when the pundits have the play book reading:

1. Pep
2. Mourinho
3. Moyes

Hmmmm.

Everton marvel Moyes reaches 500 not out
Published: Friday 25 January 2013, 15.28CET

If you have read the UK sports pages this week you will have done well not to find words of praise for David Moyes, who on Saturday takes charge of his 500th Everton FC game away to Bolton Wanderers FC in the FA Cup fourth round.

Only Harry Catterick oversaw more matches (592) during a single spell as Everton manager, from 1961–73, when his Mersey Millionaires captured two English league championships and an FA Cup. Moyes, nearly 11 years in the job, still has to bring silverware to Goodison Park yet his achievements hold a value of their own.

The 49-year-old Glaswegian was appointed in March 2002, with Everton – their 1995 FA Cup win excepted – having spent the worst part of a decade in decline. Moyes was one of the game's bright young bosses after leading Preston North End FC from the third division to within 90 minutes of the Premier League; Preston lost that promotion play-off, so it has been with another venerable footballing institution that Moyes has made his mark.

Under his tutelage, Everton have been the sixth-best team in England in terms of points won, finishing seventh or higher in seven of the Scot's ten full campaigns at the helm, with fourth place in 2004/05 the pinnacle. Their FA Cup final and UEFA Champions League play-off appearances were tainted by defeat, however.

One reporter wrote this week that Everton would be serious title contenders under Moyes in any other era of the national game. After all, the Blues' record of nine championships is bettered by only Manchester United FC, Liverpool FC and Arsenal FC; cyclical success is in the Goodison DNA. And Moyes, with his steely will and attention to detail, certainly evokes those master team builders of football past who grabbed hold of clubs and drove them to unforeseen heights.

However, with Everton owned by Liverpool-born theatre impresario Bill Kenwright in an age of foreign billionaires, frustrating transfer windows have been a recurring theme of Moyes's tenure. These have often interrupted Everton's development, causing slow starts to seasons; once they get going, though, a Moyes side can be hard to stop. The good news this term is that the Toffees, with just three defeats in their last 32 league matches, are already fifth in the table, three points off fourth, and equally keen to progress in the FA Cup.

It could prove a defining campaign. Named manager of the year three times by his peers (2003, 2005 and 2009), Moyes's contract expires this summer, though talks on a new deal are promised shortly. Whatever the outcome, his Everton legacy looks secure. If his predecessors applied the club's Latin motto of Nil Satis Nisi Optimum (nothing satisfies but the best) in lifting trophies, he has done so in creating a culture of excellence in which only the very best from every member of staff will do.

Moreover, in consistently making signings you would describe as 'low cost, low maintenance but high yield', he has not just made a virtue of financial necessity but has positively invited a cause for canonisation. While the home-grown Wayne Rooney alighted early, many Moyes proteges stayed for the ride, with Goodison witnessing the best years of Thomas Gravesen, Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta and Steven Pienaar, plus three defenders the manager helped turn into England internationals – Joleon Lescott, Phil Jagielka and Leighton Baines.

Add to endemic loyalty Moyes's honesty and integrity, and Everton – appropriately for European top-flight football's longest-serving club – state a strong case for the game's traditional values. If nothing else under Moyes, it has been a moral victory

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=eng/news/newsid=1913631.html#moyes+reaches+mark

Offline triniairman

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4782 on: January 28, 2013, 03:21:31 PM »
Report: Man U value exceeds $3 billion

Manchester United has become the first sports team in the world to be valued at more than $3 billion, Forbes Magazine reported Monday.

A surge in the club's shares after a poor start when they were offered on the New York Stock Exchange in August has seen the overall value of United rise to $3.3 billion.

According to Forbes, United is comfortably ahead of the world's second-most-valuable sports team, the NFL's Dallas Cowboys, worth $2.1 billion.

The United shares were initially offered to the public at $14 and are now worth just under $17. The market cap -- or the outstanding value of the team's market share -- is $2.78 billion.

The demand for shares of the 19-time English champion grew due to better earnings and new sponsorship deals with Japan's Kansai and China Construction Bank, despite a drop in first-quarter earnings because of a reduction in television revenue.

Demand for shares may continue due to the club's EPL standings and Champions League potential.

It means a huge increase in the overall wealth of the Glazer family, who have a controlling interest in United, and billionaire investor George Soros -- the 22nd richest person in the world -- who bought a 7.5 percent stake in the club.

The Glazers sold 10 percent of their shares in the initial public offering sale in August but United vice chairman Ed Woodward insisted in October the family will not sell the club for "many, many years" despite ongoing interest.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1316723/manchester-united-richest-sports-team-at-$3-billion,-says-report?cc=5901

Offline D.H.W

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4783 on: January 28, 2013, 03:39:27 PM »
:)
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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4784 on: January 29, 2013, 03:37:45 PM »
City draw 0-0 with qpr
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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4785 on: January 30, 2013, 02:04:43 PM »
DeGea, DeGea. What a horrible blunder, no excuse for that.
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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4786 on: January 30, 2013, 03:00:04 PM »
I'll defend DeGea.....don't care about that stupid "blunder".  That was a shit back pass by Carrick. DeGea is young and will get better with time, everyone is always beating up on him because of the club he is at. There is big expectations for someone coming into that position ,and they expect more from him. He has made some big saves in the past, and saves us from a loss. So these cock suckers for commentators could go F@* k themselves.

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4787 on: January 30, 2013, 03:39:32 PM »
The man has issues that need sorting. Is only a matter of time.
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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4788 on: January 30, 2013, 03:51:25 PM »
3 points
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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4789 on: January 30, 2013, 04:49:38 PM »
I'll defend DeGea.....don't care about that stupid "blunder".  That was a shit back pass by Carrick. DeGea is young and will get better with time, everyone is always beating up on him because of the club he is at. There is big expectations for someone coming into that position ,and they expect more from him. He has made some big saves in the past, and saves us from a loss. So these cock suckers for commentators could go F@* k themselves.

Lord if he was English dey would have been talking about what an outstanding young goalie he is. I wish dey would pong Rooney the same way everytime he mistrap, or lose the ball because he try tuh pass tru a maze of legs, or lose the ball tryin tuh dribble and turn into the defender. I have seen Rooney play a pack of shite, and dey still give him a 8. Typical English press, pong the foreigners but give the locals a bli. By the way, most of the comments I have read from United fans have been positive and supportive of DeGea. They recognise his skills and he has the potential to be great in a couple of years. Of course the defense in front of him has not always been the strongest this year and it reflects in the number of goals that have been scored against. Last year his biggest issue was crosses and he had a better defense in front of him and thus he let in less goals.

I would prefer DeGea to stay on the pitch than get send off in an effort to recuse that back pass from Carrick by making a rash tackle in that one on one.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 04:56:54 PM by Giggsy11 »

Offline Fyzoman

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4790 on: January 30, 2013, 04:59:44 PM »
In De Gea defense, poor fellah it look like he know he couldn't hold dat crazy back pass from Carrick, and also he didn't want to make a cacahole tackle to give way ah penalty and probably get ah red card, so I feel sorry for him dis time.

Football is something else yes, had Carrick just cleared dat ball, we woulda instead be talking bout de shot he spill and then re-collect later on...also if he own defender didn't get in his way, he woulda punch de ball away against Tottenham, no Dempsey equalizer:)

Also Anderson could make ah bad pass boy, waaayyyyy!!!
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giggsy11

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4791 on: January 30, 2013, 05:12:50 PM »
In De Gea defense, poor fellah it look like he know he couldn't hold dat crazy back pass from Carrick, and also he didn't want to make a cacahole tackle to give way ah penalty and probably get ah red card, so I feel sorry for him dis time.

Football is something else yes, had Carrick just cleared dat ball, we woulda instead be talking bout de shot he spill and then re-collect later on...also if he own defender didn't get in his way, he woulda punch de ball away against Tottenham, no Dempsey equalizer:)Also Anderson could make ah bad pass boy, waaayyyyy!!!

Or Evra stay with Lennon instead of converging on the forward, DeGea, and Vidic.

Offline Mose

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4792 on: January 31, 2013, 04:22:02 AM »
In De Gea defense, poor fellah it look like he know he couldn't hold dat crazy back pass from Carrick, and also he didn't want to make a cacahole tackle to give way ah penalty and probably get ah red card, so I feel sorry for him dis time.

Football is something else yes, had Carrick just cleared dat ball, we woulda instead be talking bout de shot he spill and then re-collect later on...also if he own defender didn't get in his way, he woulda punch de ball away against Tottenham, no Dempsey equalizer:)Also Anderson could make ah bad pass boy, waaayyyyy!!!

Or Evra stay with Lennon instead of converging on the forward, DeGea, and Vidic.
Unfortunately decisions like that often come about because you lack confidence in your goalie.
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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4793 on: January 31, 2013, 06:21:39 AM »
In De Gea defense, poor fellah it look like he know he couldn't hold dat crazy back pass from Carrick, and also he didn't want to make a cacahole tackle to give way ah penalty and probably get ah red card, so I feel sorry for him dis time.

Football is something else yes, had Carrick just cleared dat ball, we woulda instead be talking bout de shot he spill and then re-collect later on...also if he own defender didn't get in his way, he woulda punch de ball away against Tottenham, no Dempsey equalizer:)Also Anderson could make ah bad pass boy, waaayyyyy!!!

Or Evra stay with Lennon instead of converging on the forward, DeGea, and Vidic.
Unfortunately decisions like that often come about because you lack confidence in your goalie.

What you saying there is more a repeated cliche than anything else.....when defenders lack confidence in their GK, they do not play the ball to him, they do everything in their power to clear the ball out so he doesn't have to be part of the play and have a chance to foul things up.  Especially when you playing on a team full of (error prone) veteran defenders but Carrick's back pass was pure garbage and it would have put ANY GK in a very bad spot.  If he have it in his mind that DeGea is a liability then he is a jackass for making that pass to him.......people always talk about "confidence in the GK" but hardly anybody talks about the pressure a GK is under when he has to be a saviour behind error-prone defenders who space out from time to time.  The only area that anybody can legitimately have the slightest concern for with DeGea is his handling of crosses. That has been a problem for him but guess what? That has been the bane for practically any GK coming into the English game, both that and the physicality of the league and guess what, too? They go hand in hand.  Warren Barton went off and went on and on about him "putting the ball back in play" against Tottenham but I guarantee you, Warren Barton never had to go up for a ball and try to go through 3 and 4 other players going for the same ball....DeGea doh weigh that much to move that crowd to begin with and any momentum he had going up to punch that ball got snuffed out upon impact.  All this other talk about him "putting the ball back in play" is more rehashed, mindless drbble.  I see King Jackass bringin' it up because that is what he hearing all the time on the tv....ALL GK's, in the performance of their duties, put the ball "back in play".  ALL of them.  It is inevitable.  Yesterday pepe reina made a brilliant diving save against arsenal and put the ball "back in play"....ball trickled wide for a corner.  If arsenal's forwards were more thoughtful on the initial shot, it woulda been an easy tap-in for whoever decided to follow up. That is just one example. A friend of mine that is a professional footballer (GK) was telling me the other day how his coaches always dedicate time in training to have other players fill in as GK, starting with going up for crosses.....most of them want to quit after 5-10 crosses.....He says it helps his defenders, especially, get a better understanding of his position, how they should communicate with each other and what their roles should be in certain situations. From some of the talk men does come on here and talk, I does wish I could run them through some serious drills.   
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 06:26:20 AM by Mango Chow! »


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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4794 on: January 31, 2013, 08:35:27 AM »


De Gea may be struggling... but the stats tell a different story

Player   Club   Saves   Shots to saves ratio
Gerhard Tremmel   Swansea City   43   81.1%
Petr Cech   Chelsea   68   76.4%
David De Gea   Manchester United   62   75.6%
Julio César   Queens Park Rangers   65   75.6%
Simon Mignolet   Sunderland   92   74.8%


Player   Club   Catches   Catch success rate
Brad Guzan   Aston Villa   62   100.0%
Petr Cech   Chelsea                27   100.0%
Adam Federici   Reading                20   100.0%
Michel Vorm   Swansea    19   100.0%
Joe Hart                 Man City                18   100.0%
Gerhard Tremmel   Swansea    12   100.0%
David De Gea   Manchester United   11   100.0%


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2271118/David-Gea-targeted-Manchester-Uniteds-opponents.html#ixzz2JYzonbfG
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« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 08:40:18 AM by Giggsy11 »

Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4795 on: January 31, 2013, 02:18:23 PM »


De Gea may be struggling... but the stats tell a different story

Player   Club   Saves   Shots to saves ratio
Gerhard Tremmel   Swansea City   43   81.1%
Petr Cech   Chelsea   68   76.4%
David De Gea   Manchester United   62   75.6%
Julio César   Queens Park Rangers   65   75.6%
Simon Mignolet   Sunderland   92   74.8%


Player   Club   Catches   Catch success rate
Brad Guzan   Aston Villa   62   100.0%
Petr Cech   Chelsea                27   100.0%
Adam Federici   Reading                20   100.0%
Michel Vorm   Swansea    19   100.0%
Joe Hart                 Man City                18   100.0%
Gerhard Tremmel   Swansea    12   100.0%
David De Gea   Manchester United   11   100.0%


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2271118/David-Gea-targeted-Manchester-Uniteds-opponents.html#ixzz2JYzonbfG
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   Giggsy, dem stats really doh mean nutting nuh.....dize fuh dem "football intellectuals" as I like to call dem.....they do not tell enough of the story of the game to make a fair assessment of a GK's performance or abilities so later fuh dem ting.


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Offline dinho

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4796 on: January 31, 2013, 03:46:46 PM »
People really blaming De Gea for Carrick's woeful back pass?
         

Offline Mose

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4797 on: February 01, 2013, 09:31:18 AM »
In De Gea defense, poor fellah it look like he know he couldn't hold dat crazy back pass from Carrick, and also he didn't want to make a cacahole tackle to give way ah penalty and probably get ah red card, so I feel sorry for him dis time.

Football is something else yes, had Carrick just cleared dat ball, we woulda instead be talking bout de shot he spill and then re-collect later on...also if he own defender didn't get in his way, he woulda punch de ball away against Tottenham, no Dempsey equalizer:)Also Anderson could make ah bad pass boy, waaayyyyy!!!

Or Evra stay with Lennon instead of converging on the forward, DeGea, and Vidic.
Unfortunately decisions like that often come about because you lack confidence in your goalie.

What you saying there is more a repeated cliche than anything else.....when defenders lack confidence in their GK, they do not play the ball to him, they do everything in their power to clear the ball out so he doesn't have to be part of the play and have a chance to foul things up.  Especially when you playing on a team full of (error prone) veteran defenders but Carrick's back pass was pure garbage and it would have put ANY GK in a very bad spot.  If he have it in his mind that DeGea is a liability then he is a jackass for making that pass to him.......people always talk about "confidence in the GK" but hardly anybody talks about the pressure a GK is under when he has to be a saviour behind error-prone defenders who space out from time to time.  The only area that anybody can legitimately have the slightest concern for with DeGea is his handling of crosses. That has been a problem for him but guess what? That has been the bane for practically any GK coming into the English game, both that and the physicality of the league and guess what, too? They go hand in hand.  Warren Barton went off and went on and on about him "putting the ball back in play" against Tottenham but I guarantee you, Warren Barton never had to go up for a ball and try to go through 3 and 4 other players going for the same ball....DeGea doh weigh that much to move that crowd to begin with and any momentum he had going up to punch that ball got snuffed out upon impact.  All this other talk about him "putting the ball back in play" is more rehashed, mindless drbble.  I see King Jackass bringin' it up because that is what he hearing all the time on the tv....ALL GK's, in the performance of their duties, put the ball "back in play".  ALL of them.  It is inevitable.  Yesterday pepe reina made a brilliant diving save against arsenal and put the ball "back in play"....ball trickled wide for a corner.  If arsenal's forwards were more thoughtful on the initial shot, it woulda been an easy tap-in for whoever decided to follow up. That is just one example. A friend of mine that is a professional footballer (GK) was telling me the other day how his coaches always dedicate time in training to have other players fill in as GK, starting with going up for crosses.....most of them want to quit after 5-10 crosses.....He says it helps his defenders, especially, get a better understanding of his position, how they should communicate with each other and what their roles should be in certain situations. From some of the talk men does come on here and talk, I does wish I could run them through some serious drills.   
Actually. I was referring to Evra's decision to leave his man (Lennon) unmarked and attempt to clear the ball. Didn't see Carrick's pass and can't comment on that. I would love to see Da Gea do well but I do get the feeling that his defenders don't have confidence in him in certain situations (rightly or wrongly).
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4798 on: February 01, 2013, 09:44:31 AM »
DeGea will get bench soon enough. It's one thing to have ability but when every game he having some mistake whether intentionally or not, it doh help. Remember Tim Howard?
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Offline Fyzoman

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Re: The Stretford End- Home of the Champions
« Reply #4799 on: February 01, 2013, 02:46:11 PM »
D.H.
DeGea will get bench soon enough. It's one thing to have ability but when every game he having some mistake whether intentionally or not, it doh help. Remember Tim Howard?

D.H.W, I also feel he will get ah lil bench, but doh forget even though Sir Alex get de rid of Howard, Howard end up being ah kinda ok lil keeper in de EPL, so Alex might remember dat too.
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