Howard University names new soccer coach

[rippin]

Men here is kicks. The man record speaks for itself. He used the assets available to him iand has a very impressive win loss ratio. The fact is his team knew how to win. If in fact the reason that Div II is less competitive because of exposure and $ and he is now a Div I team coach he now has the exposure and $ to build a strong team. I see HU team play under Tucker any new coach is a good thing. I wish him all the best. This was a kicks thread man gone and take serious. The EPL is more competitive that Championship but given what Keane do with Sunderland I am sure we can all believe that when he gets to the EPL he will be a very competitive coach.

[Bakes]

You seem intent on contention...that's the only thing I can conclude.

Bakes,

With the hope of detaching you from your disturbing communication with Kingman let me say this -

Me and Kingman on kicks fella...so doh even study it.

Your response has the virtue of many a concession speech ... at least I appreciate the more conciliatory tone you've struck, but I'm less satisfied with your intent of diluting the discussion with weak or non-responsive correlations and self-celebratory distractors.

Quite honestly...I couldn't give two f.ucks about how you find my tone or what you appreciate to not appreciate.  I concede nothing...your compromised reasoning is what is apparently affecting your perception of my statements. If you waiting fuh me to post simply so that it would be appealing to your eyes then yuh still waiting...

I really not into the boasting and bragging thing, and while I see you have included some very good tidbits here, I stand by my original statements, the gist of which is that across the board D-II is less competitive than D-I.

 ... I'm able to gauge what recruitment strategies are taking shape often before they play out years later when players finally matriculate into college.

What exactly is 'less competitive'? How is that to be gauged? Within the division? Within or across various D-II conferences? By head to head competition between D-I and D-II teams?

among all D-II schools, the talent variation is greater because quite simply the talent pool is not as deep as D-I, the individual challenges faced by each school to remain competitive is greater, hence there is greater inconsistency by many schools when you look at their individual records...up and down...even among the more elite D-II schools.  Same happens on the D-I level...to be sure, but not with the same alarming frequency as seen on the D-II level...and certainly it's not as widespread either.  Teams are less likely to have great years followed by bad years etc, and while there are many factors which lead to this, inconsistent play is the chief culprit as identified by the 2006 Philadelphia conferenc.  You could spin it, twist it, chop it or fold it.  I didn't create that finding the soccer coaches did.

How on earth do recruitment strategies affect my "on any given Sunday" assertion?

I never once tried to counter your "on any given Sunday" assertion, because quite simply...THIS IS A GIVEN.  Why would I contest this??  We all know anything can happen on the pitch?  WC Connection defeated Chivas in the Confederation Cup or whatever it was...does this mean that the PFL is just as competive as the Mexican league all of a sudden?  Certainly we know that there is talent in the PFL on par with that in Mexico?  This is the nonsensical assumption one would have to make should we accept your line of argument.

My comment with regards to recruitment is that I see who (some of) the players are that the coaches are actively in competition for and the vast majority of them end up at D-I schools.  That's not to say that there aren't hidden gems who end up on the D-II level, but many simply slip thru the cracks...that's a far cry from saying that the D-II level is just overflowing with talent, more than at D-I

For the convenience of all let me restate the Wikipedia assertion:

"Matches between the three divisions in non-revenue sports are often quite competitive; the difference in the level of competition between the two divisions is often considerably less in these sports than it is in football and men's or women's basketball

Fairly there is only one reasonable interpretation of this contention and it has nothing to do with whether D-II is less competitive per se than D-I, but all to do with the perception of the distinction among the divisions and the reality of the distinction among the divisions.

Show me where it facking mentions "perception"!  The only reasonable interpretation is that the difference in competition isn't as wide a gap as seen in football and basketball.  The underlying premise is that THE DIFFERENCE IN COMPETITIVENESS DOES IN FACT EXIST.  I don't know which parallel universe you live in or what the logical standards are there in your personal Oz...but any reasonable person would find it difficult to arrive at the same conclusion you have given the statement.

Once again, my original assertion sought to address this and this only ... similarly so the KC article. Anyone close to the game understands the administrative/organizational distinctions among the divisions, but do you understand the philosophical differences as to why/how the NCAA constructed the divisions into (as you grant) not arbitrary categories? And that outcomes can be varied?

Are you willing to acknowledge how these philosophical differences affect budgetary considerations, but not necessarily the calibre of player at a D-II school?

First of all why don't you share these philosophical differences which you claim I don't understand.  Secondly the budgetary considerations often play out on the field as money allows for program upgrades (recruitment, scholarships, training, nutrition, staffing...the friggin list goes on)...money doesn't automatically result in a good program, but it's one of the underlying building blocks.

I have long recognized the advantages associated with D-I institutions, and my assertion bears these factors in mind. Yet still I see things the way I do ...

It's somewhat of an uninformed view or disingenuous oversight to sweep in one direction with blanket statements, but then ask us to ignore the dust you've left on the floor.

lol...you right dred, we should just accept from your mouth that your view is more informed.  More and more you sound like an apologist for D-II schools...maybe my comments hitting home or sumting.

The discussion was never about whether, as you put it, there was "any competitive variance". All of us on the side of reason would be senselessly resistant to this idea were we to fight that fight. That's not, nor ever has been, our contention. We understand (and mentioned) the factors that promote the persistently different environments across the divisions (read Rocoply again please).

What?  Dude...that is precisely what this conversation is about!!  All that I have stated is that D-II schools overall are less competive than D-I schools.  This means (since you apparently need things spelled out for you) that line them up against each other and the D-I schools more times than not will come out on top.  It also means that within the divisions you will find less parity (more of a have/have-not situation) in D-II than D-I...a gap in performance and achievement that's greater in the lower Division.  Exactly what the heck is your argument then?

We recognize the reality, but we still maintain that D-II schools should not be dealt with as dismissively as you dealt with them (let me remind you of your choice words ... "but that's a facking D-II school").

I'm not dismissing the school you half-wit...I'm saying that the record should be taken with a grain of salt because it's misleading to take his success on the D-II level and think it will automatically translate to success on a more competitive D-I level.  This isn't the facking Washington Post that I'm writing on that it has to be up to Pullitzer standards...if you didn't derive that meaning from my initial post then small loss, I really don't care.  If you derived that reason and still disagree with it...then too facking bad.  I'm not here to convince you or anyone else of shit.  I say my piece and people free to take it or leave it, I have no stake in the fight either way, I didn't go to HU because it was substandard in many regards to the school I went to.  Because it's a historically black school, because I have nuff friends who went there, because HU football is a caribbean thing, I have an interest in seeing them do well.  This is the ONLY reason I weighed in on the situation.  Other than that I honestly couldn't care less about how D-I racks up in comparison to D-II.

The pity here is (in spite of your interactions with the coaching fraternity) you remain unable to discern the difference between the general context and the actuality. You profess to understand where D-II players come from but you actually don't.

I have no doubt that members of the coaching fraternity would agree with me.

That said, I recognize that all of them understand how the stars should be aligned. D-I should beat D-II. However, convention isn't what gets the job done.

We also have to account for bias ... unless you've spoken to D-I coaches who have laboured in D-II environments we have a further issue. Then there's also bias because no coach would concede that his team would lose to the opposition. In any event, I'm not gullible enough to believe that you possessed the insight to ask coaches whether D-II could beat D-I. Further, if you did this would have been glaring in your presentation.

What you're doing is extrapolating your understanding of D-I's operating environment and projecting your bias. But, I suppose some selective extrapolation is permissible under your formula. (see below)

And, out of convenience you seem uninclined to address the ascendancy of D-II players into the pro ranks. Heck, I know D-III players who have received attention at professional tryouts. I know army players that have done the same. Same tryouts at teams where some internationals from our region compete for roster spots. And, I know some army players who may soon be featuring in one or other of these divisions.

I'm not even going to bother responding to what you said above...take that however you want, not interested.

You dismiss Jahyouth's experiences playing in WV,

I dismissed nothing.  Go back and read...this time with a modicum of understanding you dumbass.  How the fack can I dismiss his experience when I myself have not walked in his shoes? I cannot relate to his experiences let alone dismiss it...that would be inanely presumptious and irrational on my part.  In fact i allowed for his experience...only to add that WV isn't exactly a powerhouse.  So...this then is in line with the earlier contention in this thread that the top D-II schools can be very competitive against the lower D-I schools...the point underscored by my Sunderland/Watford analogy, which you conveniently dismissed.

 but demonstrate your ignorance (or wilful blindness) that WV is now one of the top D-I teams in the country with a coach honoured with national accolades. Again, curious thing that ... team fortunes are not static - just like the game and results they are dynamic - and it is expressly upon this reality upon which I premised my assertion. In a dynamic game of soccer many a D-II team could compete with teams not considered to be mediocre D-I squads.

Now as for WVU...not to further this inane tangent of the larger argument...but in support of my position:  The school is enjoying a recent run of success, under a first year coach with no prior head-coaching experience.  His team did very well his first year (this from the WVU site) and he indeed won many an accolade.  My comments were not an indictment of the coach...but an assessment of the WVU program.  This being his first year at WVU he has no responsibility for it's past/recent record...so you mentioning his accolades is distractionary at best...tangentially asinine at worst.  Back to the school's record...over the past six seasons they've averaged 16-wins and 13 losses with only a handful of post-season appearances to their name...hardly the stuff that makes for a powerhouse...wouldn't you say?

(Incidentally, how do you account for some big budget D-I teams, with allegedly superior players, having inferior mediocre squads? Do you lay that at the feet of your friends in the coaching fraternity?)

There are some players who have been invited to our very own national camps who ply their trades at D-II institutions - not at all a unique circumstance. Kevin Crooks comes to mind immediately (Clayton State). This year they signed a former US-Under 18 player. Get real! This guy could find no D-I team willing to take him?

Then there's the question of this doozy:

the great thing about this website is that everybody's an authority...at least in their own minds.  As I said earlier...this isn't a debate I care that much about to get into no back and forth...often time I'll take up de ole talk to pass time at work or whatever, but now isn't one of those times.  I respect everyones experiences...so if a man like Jahyouth come say that Wheeling Jesuit routinely kick West Virginia's ass (WVU being a nobody when it comes to soccer, but that's for another day) I won't...can't dispute that.  The danger lies in taking our individual experiences and extrapolating it as fact across the board.  The broader the experience the more accurate the gauge...and while I won't make any claims relative to my own experience, I'm pretty comfortable that the objective measures I've used in makng my conclusion would stand up to challenge.

You seem fairly comfortable denigrating or minimizing the experience of others while promoting yours - even though, by your own contention, you allegedly respect our collective experiences.

Whose experience did I denigrate or dismiss? Examples please.  I make allowances for the experieces of others but you come telling me that I'm dismissing them.  I can only conclude that my words mean nothing to you, either because you cannot read...or because your are gifted with omniscience to the extent that you can decipher my intentions across the internet and from the cozy confines or your computer desk.  What other supernatural powers did the gods gift you with oh great Carnac?

That's one issue. Even if we assume your comment to be true you're equally as guilty of the accusation you make of others and perhaps moreso because your contentions are reputedly based on the cumulative experience of others rather than your personal first-hand observations.

Believe me when I say that you possess no particular monopoly on access to the NSCAA. Curious thing that, I too "have numerous interactions with NSCAA coaches in the US" and I have concluded otherwise.

 

Would be lovely if you could support these assumptions about my intent with fact...but I won't hold my breath waiting.  I also never postured that my access to NSCAA information was in anyway proprietary or exclusive...that is a figment of your own creation.  It was simply made in support of my position, that you have similar if not the same information and have concluded otherwise is testament only to the wonders of living in a free society...everyone's entitled to an opinion.

Continue with the argument if you like 

[asylumseeker]

Hmmm. Bakes, you know, I'm tickled that I have provided you with an opportunity to exercise your mind - poorly, but I suppose some exercise is preferable to none.

[Fantastic]

Maybe we need to change de title of dis thread. Thought Howard would have been mentioned a couple more times at least in these increasingly agressive discussions. Will just add 1 thing doh, players are usually afforded opportunities based on what people think they will be able to do. Basically asking coaches, athletic directors to make choices and work with these guys based on pedigree. All sorts of factors could make a man deemed to have better pedigree or potential to accomplish less than a man with so called less potential. However, the selectors will usually still pick these " pedigree"  players first, whether is high school, college, mls, or national team. When it comes to this div 1 against div 2 or naia thing, there are too many different rules, various levels of coaching talent, school spending different amounts on funding the programs, to make a concrete argument. I still think that most things being equal, " pedigree" wil usually prevail.l

[doublet750]

anyone noe any where i could get in contact with this guy to try and make the team

[Tongue]

anyone noe any where i could get in contact with this guy to try and make the team

yuh does go Howard? If the answer is yes...drop out of school pronto. How you could go to HU (if u do) come on here and ask for dis kinda info. Go tuh the athletic and get the info nah!

[kingman]

anyone noe any where i could get in contact with this guy to try and make the team

Well they have a newly appointed coach as you already know. Your best bet is to send an e-mail to the compliance officer asking for the contact information for the men's soccer coach. The e-mail address is awilliamson@howard.edu and his name is A.B Williamson. You can also sent the same copy of the e-mail to Karen House (the director of sports) at khouse@howard.edu. She is very helpful. Good luck.

Kingman

[dcs]

anyone noe any where i could get in contact with this guy to try and make the team

yuh does go Howard? If the answer is yes...drop out of school pronto

 

Is summer he probably not on campus.  He just want to talk to the man and know it have people going HU here.  Why yuh sooo!!   

[doublet750]

i eh as lazy as alyuh fellas i does apply myself lol..i woulda be there long time...but nah i doesnt go howard so dat is y i asking but thnks fellas no scene