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Offline zuluwarrior

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Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« on: August 01, 2007, 06:42:53 PM »
 BY FAINE RICHARDS

SENIOR COUNSEL Israel Khan is hoping that visiting Ugandan President Youweri Museveni would apologise for past atrocities committed against Indians in Uganda.

In a telephone interview yesterday following a news release Khan “politely” called on Museveni to deliver a public apology for “brutality” against Indians in Uganda under former president Idi Amin Dada.

Museveni arrived in T&T yesterday for a three-day visit. He was scheduled to deliver the keynote address at a dinner hosted by the National Association for the Empowerment of African People at the Centre of Excellence, Macoya, last night.

Khan was hoping Museveni would devote a portion of his address to reiterating similar apologies he made to the Indian Diaspora in Canada and England.

Khan believes the apology is fitting in light of efforts to develop diplomatic ties between T&T and Uganda.

Referring to the request from Uganda’s Foreign Affairs Minister Sam Jutesa for T&T’s oil and gas expertise, Khan said: “I observe that the present president of Uganda is coming to our country seeking assistance as to how to manage his oil and gas.”

“When he (Museveni) arrives here, he will see how East Indians and Africans live side by side in a peaceful manner. This is a model country for him,” Khan said.

Recalling former president Amin’s statement that Indians were “bloodsuckers,” Khan said Amin expelled Indians from Uganda, and confiscated their properties.

Khan said Museveni previously invited the descendants of those expelled to return to Uganda and resettle their family’s property.

“He (Museveni) wants to have ties with our country and he is not to be blamed for what Idi Amin did,” Khan said.

Idi Amin’s legacy

In 1971, Idi Amin, a major general in the Ugandan army, seized power from incumbent president Milton Obote in a military coup d’etat.

On August 5, 1972, Amin mandated that some 40,000 Ugandans of Asian descent leave the country.

The majority of them were descendants of indentured Indian labourers brought to Uganda when it was still a British colony.

Uganda declared its independence from Great Britain in 1962.

The properties of all those expelled from the country were confiscated by Amin’s government.

During his eight-year presidency, Amin reportedly killed an estimated 300,000 people.

Amin died in 2003.

 
 
 
 
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Offline Organic

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 06:49:34 PM »
BY FAINE RICHARDS

SENIOR COUNSEL Israel Khan is hoping that visiting Ugandan President Youweri Museveni would apologise for past atrocities committed against Indians in Uganda.

In a telephone interview yesterday following a news release Khan “politely” called on Museveni to deliver a public apology for “brutality” against Indians in Uganda under former president Idi Amin Dada.

Museveni arrived in T&T yesterday for a three-day visit. He was scheduled to deliver the keynote address at a dinner hosted by the National Association for the Empowerment of African People at the Centre of Excellence, Macoya, last night.

Khan was hoping Museveni would devote a portion of his address to reiterating similar apologies he made to the Indian Diaspora in Canada and England.

Khan believes the apology is fitting in light of efforts to develop diplomatic ties between T&T and Uganda.

Referring to the request from Uganda’s Foreign Affairs Minister Sam Jutesa for T&T’s oil and gas expertise, Khan said: “I observe that the present president of Uganda is coming to our country seeking assistance as to how to manage his oil and gas.”

“When he (Museveni) arrives here, he will see how East Indians and Africans live side by side in a peaceful manner. This is a model country for him,” Khan said.

Recalling former president Amin’s statement that Indians were “bloodsuckers,” Khan said Amin expelled Indians from Uganda, and confiscated their properties.

Khan said Museveni previously invited the descendants of those expelled to return to Uganda and resettle their family’s property.

“He (Museveni) wants to have ties with our country and he is not to be blamed for what Idi Amin did,” Khan said.

Idi Amin’s legacy

In 1971, Idi Amin, a major general in the Ugandan army, seized power from incumbent president Milton Obote in a military coup d’etat.

On August 5, 1972, Amin mandated that some 40,000 Ugandans of Asian descent leave the country.

The majority of them were descendants of indentured Indian labourers brought to Uganda when it was still a British colony.

Uganda declared its independence from Great Britain in 1962.

The properties of all those expelled from the country were confiscated by Amin’s government.

During his eight-year presidency, Amin reportedly killed an estimated 300,000 people.

Amin died in 2003.

 
 
 
 

ah hope khan eh mean trinis of east indian decent cause i eh see what that ahe to do with he/we at all..steups
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Offline Dr. Rat

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 07:32:30 PM »
Khan+Pandey=Indian talking plenty shit.
PNM in yuh mudda-in-law

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 07:37:41 PM »
BY FAINE RICHARDS

SENIOR COUNSEL Israel Khan is hoping that visiting Ugandan President Youweri Museveni would apologise for past atrocities committed against Indians in Uganda.

In a telephone interview yesterday following a news release Khan “politely” called on Museveni to deliver a public apology for “brutality” against Indians in Uganda under former president Idi Amin Dada.

Museveni arrived in T&T yesterday for a three-day visit. He was scheduled to deliver the keynote address at a dinner hosted by the National Association for the Empowerment of African People at the Centre of Excellence, Macoya, last night.

Khan was hoping Museveni would devote a portion of his address to reiterating similar apologies he made to the Indian Diaspora in Canada and England.

Khan believes the apology is fitting in light of efforts to develop diplomatic ties between T&T and Uganda.

Referring to the request from Uganda’s Foreign Affairs Minister Sam Jutesa for T&T’s oil and gas expertise, Khan said: “I observe that the present president of Uganda is coming to our country seeking assistance as to how to manage his oil and gas.”

“When he (Museveni) arrives here, he will see how East Indians and Africans live side by side in a peaceful manner. This is a model country for him,” Khan said.

Recalling former president Amin’s statement that Indians were “bloodsuckers,” Khan said Amin expelled Indians from Uganda, and confiscated their properties.

Khan said Museveni previously invited the descendants of those expelled to return to Uganda and resettle their family’s property.

“He (Museveni) wants to have ties with our country and he is not to be blamed for what Idi Amin did,” Khan said.

Idi Amin’s legacy

In 1971, Idi Amin, a major general in the Ugandan army, seized power from incumbent president Milton Obote in a military coup d’etat.

On August 5, 1972, Amin mandated that some 40,000 Ugandans of Asian descent leave the country.

The majority of them were descendants of indentured Indian labourers brought to Uganda when it was still a British colony.

Uganda declared its independence from Great Britain in 1962.

The properties of all those expelled from the country were confiscated by Amin’s government.

During his eight-year presidency, Amin reportedly killed an estimated 300,000 people.

Amin died in 2003.

 
 
 
 

ah hope khan eh mean trinis of east indian decent cause i eh see what that ahe to do with he/we at all..steups

Nah...I think he means Indians in general  ::)


I think an apology or some form of acknowledgement of wrongdoing on the part of the Amin regime might be in order...but I ent see what the fack dat have to do with Trinidad.

Offline morvant

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2007, 06:25:32 AM »
and bush should apologise fuh slavery

and i should apologise fuh de man mah father beat-up on de drag and cripple

and every man from bahrain should apologise fuh how they treat we after ah game.



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Offline mal jeux

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2007, 06:29:10 AM »
woosh, allyuh miss the point: similar apologies he made to the Indian Diaspora in Canada and England. If the whole apology thing was not started, would it have been asked?

buh wait! Morvat, ent bush is your boss?  ???
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 06:41:31 AM by mal jeux »
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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2007, 07:43:14 AM »
You ppl is take them men orn to much . Them is actervist ,thats what they do .Basically they fighting for certain indians to look as geeky as they want ,without fear of prosicution .Fight the power .
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 07:49:26 AM by Quagmire »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2007, 12:47:39 PM »
Quote
Khan believes the apology is fitting in light of efforts to develop diplomatic ties between T&T and Uganda

Well, 'the Indian diaspora in Canada and England' referred to comprises those who lived in Uganda at the time of the expulsion decree and who relocated to Canada, England and elsewhere ... and their eventual offspring - some of whom I've met on university campuses and through liming with Indians from India (often under a cricketing vibe). In fact I recall tracking Lara's progress in setting his initial Test batting record through the auspices of a couple of these guys via the computer through a format that at that time was not at that time widely known or available.

Quote
I think an apology or some form of acknowledgement of wrongdoing on the part of the Amin regime might be in order...but I ent see what the fack dat have to do with Trinidad.

The idea of an official apology is that of an apology on behalf of the Gov't of Uganda and not as apology for Idi Amin Dada personally. The rationale is simple. Idi Amin's actions constituted state action and were representative of then official/gov't policy in his presidential capacity. Therefore, subsequent Ugandan administrations inherit the burden of Uganda's relations with the affected class or other interested parties ... in this case Israel Khan.

Obviously Khan feels that actions of the Ugandan state's expulsion of Indians is repugnant to all Indians and with Trinidad & Tobago's population reality the Ugandan government ought to be sensitized to this. Not unreasonable.

However, from the article, it's not clear whether Khan sought to press his case through official T&T government channels first or solely sought sensationalization of the issue through the press. That (the former) would be the preferable course of action especially since some of the reactions on this thread suggest underscore the need/importance of public education.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2007, 09:28:15 PM »

Quote
I think an apology or some form of acknowledgement of wrongdoing on the part of the Amin regime might be in order...but I ent see what the fack dat have to do with Trinidad.

The idea of an official apology is that of an apology on behalf of the Gov't of Uganda and not as apology for Idi Amin Dada personally. The rationale is simple. Idi Amin's actions constituted state action and were representative of then official/gov't policy in his presidential capacity. Therefore, subsequent Ugandan administrations inherit the burden of Uganda's relations with the affected class or other interested parties ... in this case Israel Khan.

I understand the rationale completely, not sure why you thought it necessary to further explain  ???  I even agreed that "some sort of acknowledgement" of the wrongdoing, on the part of the current government was reasonable.

Obviously Khan feels that actions of the Ugandan state's expulsion of Indians is repugnant to all Indians and with Trinidad & Tobago's population reality the Ugandan government ought to be sensitized to this. Not unreasonable.

I think the expulsion (similar to what's happening in present-day Zimbabwe) is repugnant to any sensible, rational, objective and considerate person- regardless of race.  Presumptive of Khan to claim the outrage for only Indians. I actually find it a bit offensive...some Indians were affected, so ALL Indians everywhere need an apology?  My first reaction is a dismissive "get over yourselves".  The issue has no more to do with Indians in Trinidad than it does with Aboriginies in Australia.  Next a contingent of yutes from Carenage should write PM Gordon in England and demand an apology for Thatcher's support of the Apartheid regime under P.W. Botha.

However, from the article, it's not clear whether Khan sought to press his case through official T&T government channels first or solely sought sensationalization of the issue through the press. That (the former) would be the preferable course of action especially since some of the reactions on this thread suggest underscore the need/importance of public education.

I'm not convinced that "public education" would make his cause any more convincing really.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 09:30:04 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2007, 10:21:21 PM »
Would your reaction be the same if this TT/Uganda accord were taking place in 1987 as opposed to 2007?

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2007, 09:16:59 AM »
Would your reaction be the same if this TT/Uganda accord were taking place in 1987 as opposed to 2007?
My gut reaction would be to say "probably", but I prefer to get a bit more context from you (with regards to the question) before offering my response.



I guess my take on it is that Khan feels that Indians throughout the diaspora are deserving of an apology, because his assumption is that the issue would resonate more with Indians than with people of other ethnicities.  It's sorta like him saying Indians deserve an apology because

"It's an Indian thing, you won't understand"

...which I find insulting, even moreso than the T-shirts peddled by the Black Students Association at my alma mater years ago.  I dunno, I might be different from most non-Indians I suppose, but I was sensitized to the issue of the forced repatriation under Amin, after watching "Mississippi Masala" (starring Denzel Washington and Sarita "the love of my life" Choudhury) some ten plus years ago. 

I understand why an apology would be necessary to those directly affected and their descendants, but just as I don't believe that Jews have the franchise on suffering... I similarly don't believe that Indians in this regard have the franchise on empathy for the Ugandan ex-pats, and thus are not deserving of any special acknowledgement or the other.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 09:20:50 AM by Bake n Shark »

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2007, 11:52:20 AM »
I refer to 1987 versus 2007 because sometimes the distance of time lends us a jaundiced view of events and responsibility.

Quote
I guess my take on it is that Khan feels that Indians throughout the diaspora are deserving of an apology, because his assumption is that the issue would resonate more with Indians than with people of other ethnicities.  It's sorta like him saying Indians deserve an apology because

"It's an Indian thing, you won't understand"

This isn't my take on it. I don't know that Khan has been on the record as far as dealing with this issue in a general, diasporic or universal manner.

I think his motivating nexus is the Ugandan government's underlying business imperative vis-a-vis a country (T&T) that has a significant Indian population and a significant Indian population contributing prominently to the economic life and vitality of said country (and with similar roots of indentureship at that as those kicked out of Uganda).

Maybe learned counsel sees a potentially similarly situated class in both comparisons, maybe he sees the need to sensitize the Ugandan gov't to local realities, maybe he senses the availability of exploiting political mileage from the issue, maybe ...maybe ... but ...

With the gov't inclined to set up diplomatic representation in Kampala relative to the fact that we have none present in say ... Beijing (to use the example a local Trinidad commentator chose in discussing the issue on BBC Caribbean Report) ... this is apparently a big deal ... figuratively and literally.

Quote
I understand why an apology would be necessary to those directly affected and their descendants, but just as I don't believe that Jews have the franchise on suffering... I similarly don't believe that Indians in this regard have the franchise on empathy for the Ugandan ex-pats, and thus are not deserving of any special acknowledgement or the other.

I think you're looking at this through (uncharacteristically) emotive lenses. This has all to do with statecraft and diplomatic imperatives in the ideal  and nothing to do with a "franchise on empathy" or a "franchise on suffering".

Governments make similarly abstract calls frequently (to take nothing away from Khan's intent). My disappointment is that it is a private citizen actor who has had to bring this to the fore.

We don't have to agree with either. 

IMV this would have been a no-brainer issue. 

I am not a fan of the diplomatic representations of most Caribbean governments. I have found them wanting in several aspects and severely retarded in their ability to negotiate the conduct of issues outside of the trite and mundane.



« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 12:57:54 PM by asylumseeker »

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2007, 08:14:07 PM »
I refer to 1987 versus 2007 because sometimes the distance of time lends us a jaundiced view of events and responsibility.

Yeah well...events and responsibility isn't in dispute...the issue is whether an apology is due the aggrieved parties, and does that aggrieved body include ALL indians.  You say yes...I say bullshit.

Quote
I guess my take on it is that Khan feels that Indians throughout the diaspora are deserving of an apology, because his assumption is that the issue would resonate more with Indians than with people of other ethnicities.  It's sorta like him saying Indians deserve an apology because

"It's an Indian thing, you won't understand"

This isn't my take on it. I don't know that Khan has been on the record as far as dealing with this issue in a general, diasporic or universal manner.

I think his motivating nexus is the Ugandan government's underlying business imperative vis-a-vis a country (T&T) that has a significant Indian population and a significant Indian population contributing prominently to the economic life and vitality of said country (and with similar roots of indentureship at that as those kicked out of Uganda).

If the Indian population in Trinidad wasn't 'significant'...would they still be due an apology?

What if the population was neither significant nor "contributing prominently" to the TnT economy...still due an apology?

What if there was only ONE Indian fella in all of TnT and his name was Lakshmi Mittal...would he be owed an apology?

the permutations border on the ridiculous...just as the rationale upon which you proffer your case.  You shift the rationale for the apology from determining whether the proposed parties are truly aggrieved by the actions of the Amin regime...to rather, some convoluted discussion as to the size, ethnicity and economic contributions of the proposed body of individuals.  God forbid the Ugandan gov't should ever desire normalized relations with Sri Lanka or Fiji...they might never stop de genuflection.


Maybe learned counsel sees a potentially similarly situated class in both comparisons, maybe he sees the need to sensitize the Ugandan gov't to local realities, maybe he senses the availability of exploiting political mileage from the issue, maybe ...maybe ... but ...

Maybe he sees an opportunity to get his name in the paper and curry favor with potential clients (who share his ethnicity and) who may see him as a 'hero' of sorts...standing up for the interest of Indians.  "Boy hire Israel Khan...he always standing up fuh de Indian man".

With the gov't inclined to set up diplomatic representation in Kampala relative to the fact that we have none present in say ... Beijing (to use the example a local Trinidad commentator chose in discussing the issue on BBC Caribbean Report) ... this is apparently a big deal ... figuratively and literally.

We have infinitely more in common with Uganda than we do with Beijing...so the exploration of ties makes perfect sense.  Try again.

Quote
I understand why an apology would be necessary to those directly affected and their descendants, but just as I don't believe that Jews have the franchise on suffering... I similarly don't believe that Indians in this regard have the franchise on empathy for the Ugandan ex-pats, and thus are not deserving of any special acknowledgement or the other.

I think you're looking at this through (uncharacteristically) emotive lenses.

Lol...if you say so homefries.  I have no dog in this particular fight, it's all a rhetorical exercise to me.


This has all to do with statecraft and diplomatic imperatives in the ideal  and nothing to do with a "franchise on empathy" or a "franchise on suffering".

Governments make similarly abstract calls frequently (to take nothing away from Khan's intent).

Arrite, sorry den boss.  You apparently know what is motivating Khan and I don't.  I doh consult wee jee (ouija) boards), tarot cards, crystal balls, magic mirrors or other paranormal sources to divine the thoughts and intents of others...so I'm limited to only speculation.

My disappointment is that it is a private citizen actor who has had to bring this to the fore.

We don't have to agree with either. 

IMV this would have been a no-brainer issue. 

I am not a fan of the diplomatic representations of most Caribbean governments. I have found them wanting in several aspects and severely retarded in their ability to negotiate the conduct of issues outside of the trite and mundane.





...and in one fell swoop you impugn "most" of the Caribbean diplomatic corps.  Well, as yuh reminded mih, because ah did fuhget...we eh have to agree with each other  :beermug:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 08:18:56 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline dcs

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2007, 01:45:06 AM »

I eh think is an apology to people in T&T.  If anything condemning what was done in the past is sufficient.  Is the least you would expect if they want to have strong ties with us where people in our population would want to be reassured the current government has rejected the sentiment of the old.

Ah mean if an East Indian were PM the topic would bound to come up in press conferences etc.
Is not a big deal...cah really expect him to be apologizing or talking about past events on every single state visit he goes on.  Maybe the 3rd  lol

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2007, 05:34:34 AM »
I think asylumseeker is right. Its simply a matter of diplomacy. The Ugandan President coming here and reiterating his apology for acts that he predecessor committed would not hurt him. Given the fact that he has acknowledged the atrocities and in fact has taken steps to correct them, I am not convinced that him not saying it has caused any significant damage whatsoever.


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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2007, 09:32:12 AM »
Quote
We have infinitely more in common with Uganda than we do with Beijing...so the exploration of ties makes perfect sense.  Try again

Bakes, I eh in nutten wid you eh ... but this is a demonstrably ignorant statement. You're out of your depth. Go back to the shallow waters. I see where the perspective gap lies.

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2007, 11:59:06 AM »
Apologise for what? Him Nuh do nuthin gainst Indian...  If anybody need to apologise to Indian is dat pussyhole Crime Minister we have In Trinidad..
War...
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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2007, 12:31:48 PM »
Apologise for what? Him Nuh do nuthin gainst Indian...  If anybody need to apologise to Indian is dat pussyhole Crime Minister we have In Trinidad..
War...
Would you care to qualify your statement with some modicum of fact ?

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2007, 03:42:00 PM »
Quote
We have infinitely more in common with Uganda than we do with Beijing...so the exploration of ties makes perfect sense.  Try again

Bakes, I eh in nutten wid you eh ... but this is a demonstrably ignorant statement. You're out of your depth. Go back to the shallow waters. I see where the perspective gap lies.
Lol...and you could never be in 'nutten' wid me, so try yuh best. 

The convenient response would be to similarly dismiss you out of hand, and seeing that you have yet to make a convincing argument in support of your stance this wouldn't be very difficult.  However, in the interest of continued discussion I would love to see you substantiate your claim (that my statement is ignorant) with fact...because I assure you that my statement is supported by reason.


'bout I "out of my depth"...lmao, allyuh men is kicks oui, only if said depth is dotishness, in which case I could never swim wid you.

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2007, 03:43:28 PM »
I think asylumseeker is right. Its simply a matter of diplomacy. The Ugandan President coming here and reiterating his apology for acts that he predecessor committed would not hurt him. Given the fact that he has acknowledged the atrocities and in fact has taken steps to correct them, I am not convinced that him not saying it has caused any significant damage whatsoever.



In what way did Idi Amin wrong the people of Trinidad and Tobago... that you find it necessary that the current Ugandan leader apologize to said people of Trinidad and Tobago?

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2007, 04:32:20 PM »
Israel Kahn iz saying that if yuh hit one of us doh matter what part of the world yuh hit all of us .
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bad things happening to good people: a bad thing
bad things happening to bad people: a good thing

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2007, 10:28:13 PM »
Bakes you have disqualified yourself from meritorious discussion. Had you an inkling about diplomacy and the international political environment it would have surfaced by now. Specifically, you lack a grounding in Trinidadian foreign policy and relations.

I am not sidestepping a thing.

I just eh want a purely "rhetorical exercise" to use your terminology.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2007, 10:28:57 PM »
Israel Kahn iz saying that if yuh hit one of us doh matter what part of the world yuh hit all of us .
Why...because Indian people that more special?  *steups*

Khan posturing fuh press and allyuh in here lapping it up...is how I see it.

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2007, 10:34:00 PM »
Bakes you have disqualified yourself from meritorious discussion. Had you an inkling about diplomacy and the international political environment it would have surfaced by now. Specifically, you lack a grounding in Trinidadian foreign policy and relations.


I am not sidestepping a thing.

I just eh want a purely "rhetorical exercise" to use your terminology.
Oh shut the f**k up...when I see "Ambassador" in front yuh name then come preach to me about what you know from what I doh know.  Jocking off in Uncle Sam land is as close to foreign relations as you ever get.

You know so much about "diplomacy and the international political environment"....that's why yuh right here posting wid de rest ah we on SW.net instead ah running tings in de Ministry of Foreign Affairs (wid yuh "grounding in Trinidadian foreign policy and relations", lol) or de UN.  Carry on Kofi Nanan  :rotfl:



« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 10:36:53 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2007, 11:28:23 PM »
Bakes, you are steeped in ad hominem commentary. However, you need practice to refine said comments before they could rise to the level of piercing attack. You ent ready yet. The best I can do is humour you through civility.

On a forum as equitable, diverse and all-availing as the internet provides it is quite presumptious of you to pretend to assert familiarity with my credentials. Simply put, you have no idea. None.

It's the second such fishing expedition you've embarked on without success. Please come to terms with the anonymity of our present circumstance.

Further - to extend the focus on your vacuity - let me offer this: how vacant must your perspective be to elevate Uganda vis-a-vis China in the context of our external relations?

If you must respond please attempt to render a substantive rather than sophomoric contribution.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 11:59:58 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2007, 11:44:47 PM »
Why...because Indian people that more special?  *steups*

Khan posturing fuh press and allyuh in here lapping it up...is how I see it.




Yes i, Kahn have all rights to ask him to do that , because he felt offended by the actions of  idi amin for what he did to people like him . Is only we dont stand up for each other, as long  as wwhat ever dont affect us we dont care and that iz our major problem . The crabs in the barrell  mentality we have will destroy us as a people .dont feel Kahn iz voicin that alone , he have backins , yes they should ask for what they want
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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2007, 11:56:51 PM »
It was 35 years ago this month that Amin issued his expulsion order. Here are some informative links for the curious:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/2399549.stm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/community_life/features/uganda_story.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/west/series2/ugandan_asians.shtml

Racism and the truth about the Ugandan Asians

Like all racists, we fantasised that Africans wanted our women. Rumour was that 'our' girls were being raped by black Ugandans

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown
Published: 05 August 2002 (five years ago to the day)

It is exactly 30 years today that Doctor Idi Amin Dada, His Excellency, Life President of Uganda, life Field Marshal, Al Haj, Conqueror of the British Empire and the Last King of Scotland, stood in his pyjamas and announced to his army cronies that Allah had instructed him in a dream to expel all Asians from his country and to confiscate their homes and their businesses by 9 November 1972. If any Asians were seen in Uganda after that date, he warned: "I will make you feel as if you are sitting on fire. Your main interest has been to exploit the economy for years and now I say to you all – Go!". That famous laugh gurgled up darkly, and his big face beamed.

Most Asians thought he was just rattling them. The UK government was unruffled – after all they had supported his coup in 1971. Although things had soured, Amin was felt to be a man the British could manipulate, trained by our soldiers, a chap who loved the Queen. They were wrong. Amin may have been a little mad, but he was ruthless and a clever populist who meant to carry out this expulsion.

Ugandan Asians were a small minority – about 60,000 – but we were the visible middle class, descendants of indentured labourers (enslaved men, only with a little money promised at the end of their long tenure) brought over by the British, later followed by desperate landless farmers, small shopkeepers and, in the early fifties, professionals from India and Pakistan.

The imperial plan was to create a racially defined commercial and professional class and we happily obliged, making good and keeping our heads down. We didn't much care for independence when it came in 1962, and we did what was necessary – bribes, public demonstrations of support for this minister or that – anything that could keep us living enchanted lives in a natural paradise.

I remembered all this with a jolt last week, on a boat going down the Nile towards Aswan in Egypt, halfway through the best holiday I have ever had ( an apology: last year I said I would not go to Egypt because I feared hard-line Islamists. I was wrong. The people were exceptionally warm and open-minded). I sobbed without being able to explain why. Looking at the densely packed banana trees and small huts, tethered goats, wandering cows, fishermen and the huge dam, I now think it was just a surge of memory and loss, that knowledge that there is no going back.

This river meanders up from Lake Victoria where I swam and picnicked, even trod on a crocodile once thinking it was a log, and these were the pictures I drew as a small child. It is still hard not to miss your homeland, although I love London now and would never give up all that I have slowly built over the decades. Many Ugandan Asians have similar ambiguous views – that so much was lost and even more gained when Amin banished us from a country that we had helped build.

Some older people have been unable to talk about the humiliation they went through. Their grief lingers on, with a sense of terrible injustice. In a searing essay, Paul Theroux, who was in Uganda in 1967, wrote: "I believe the Asians to be the most lied-about race in Africa; the reactions of most Africans and Europeans in East Africa to the Asian presence are flagrantly racist." Trevor Grundy, the white editor of the Kenyan newspaper The Nation, was also well known for his support of Asians in the face of some hideous black and white prejudices.

We have since become one of Britain's fables. Idi Amin is seen as the big, black, demonic monster; we are his heroic victims saved by graceful and fair Britannia who received us into her soft bosom. Nurtured thus we rose again to become frightfully good millionaires. Jean Cocteau said that history is facts that become lies in the end, and that legends are lies that become history in the end. These are legends and lies that have become history. Never forget that when we came here in 1972 Enoch Powell was at his most powerful, although there were thousands of people who did welcome us and the mood was not as hysterically anti-immigration as it is today. Nor was Idi Amin as wholly demented as people believe.

I met him in 1968. He was head of the army and I was staying in State House barracks with 40 other young people, taken there to spend three months with the then President of Uganda, Milton Obote, and his family. Obote was worried that the student revolts in Europe would spread to Uganda, so he wanted us to see how his government worked, but more importantly he hoped to identify possible troublemakers. Several students disappeared from our group. I remember thinking even as a schoolgirl that Amin was both charming and cunning. When he threw us out he knew it would be a popular move among Africans, and it was.

Envy was only part of the reason. A small racial minority obviously more wealthy than the majority obviously created resentment, sometimes among people who didn't understand how much work and thrift had gone into the success they saw. (Although another lie is that we were all rich. We were not, but we were never as poor as Africans). In the last years we spent there, we were made to feel insecure and terrified, much as the white farmers of Zimbabwe are now, and that was wrong. Some Africans and Asians were developing friendships and a new destiny, but they were a minority.

We Asians did not share our wealth and skills as much as we should have, and we did illegally send out money – both accusations levelled by Amin. And most Asians were deeply racist, unable to imagine marrying Africans and living with them as equals. Like all racists we fantasised that Africans wanted to possess our women. So rumours spread that hundreds of "our" girls were raped by black Ugandans, unsubstantiated wild allegations that were repeated in a newspaper only this week.

My father died without speaking to me three years after I had played Juliet in a school production. My school had started admitting black children and our Romeo was black you see, too much even for my "egalitarian" father. I wonder how many of my schoolfriends will recall this scandal at our first reunion this month. Some of my family – not my mother – shared these attitudes, and when I described these in my book No Place Like Home, several stopped speaking to me. No great loss. Asian papers also condemned me because they too want to forget the wrongs we did

They prefer self-pity or distasteful triumphalism ("See, they could do nothing without us!"). A few years ago I went to Neasden Temple where the present President of Uganda, Yoweri Museveni, was on a reconciliation mission. Eight thousand Asians gathered to hear him announce that properties and homes were being handed back. Priests anointed, garlanded and blessed him. Then came his fierce speech where he reminded us that only 10 (if that) of us were killed: "When I was in the bush fighting, you were in Shepherd's Bush. I got rid of Amin. Half a million of my people died. So come back to your country, help us rebuild, but remember the truth." Yes, remember the truth, especially today.

y.alibhai-brown@ independent.co.uk

Offline Pointman

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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2007, 11:59:15 PM »
An apology would seem so out of place. This is for political milage. Should George Bush apologize to Trinis for the ancestors of  Blacks in America being held in bondage? ::) Give me a break. ::)
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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2007, 12:27:28 AM »
An apology would seem so out of place. This is for political milage. Should George Bush apologize to Trinis for the ancestors of  Blacks in America being held in bondage?  Give me a break.


Point man all i am sayin iz Kahn see it as an offence to him and his race and if you think that  kahn iz crazy how do yuh think the JEWS

is lookin at him they jus not sayin nuttin .   
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Re: Israel Kahn to Ugandan president Apologise to Indians
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2007, 09:31:02 AM »
eh alyuh check i95 fm link here    http://www.pointalive.com umballa discussion scroll down .
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good things happening to good people: a good thing
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bad things happening to good people: a bad thing
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