Inter- Col- Football

[zuluwarrior]

Now that our under 17 National team is out of the world cup and we are licking our wounds,  this is where we should be asking ourselves questions, would we ever be ready for the national stage,at this tender age there is little doubt that we should be on par talent and ability with any team in the world .
It therefore must be a question of preparation and coaching that causes us to continually embarrass  ourselves ,both at home and abroad .
something need to be done differently and the time is now .i feel if the guys if yester years college had the chance that these guys have we might have been world cup under 17 champs then or be in the finals .

[Deeks]

  If the best players decide to play with the clubs instead of playing for the school is a situation left to be seen. The SSFL will object to this. They will be losing their best players who brings in money for the schools.The SSFL will also be losing influence on youth football. TTFA has always tried to bring the schools under their umbrella, but they have met stiff resistance from the colleges in the past. They feel (wrong or right) that TTFA only want the money.
                Inter-Col will still be there, but the standard will drop for sure. The thing is, will people go to see the clubs youth play as they go to see inter-col. I don't know. Only people at home could figure that out. Then will the club standard be better than the colleges. If we don't see any improvement when the clubs have the best school boys, then whats the purpose. Jabloteh, DF, AIA and W Conn., Joe Public seem to have good organisations. But can they take it to a higher level. As you all have seen  how our youth struggling to compete against superior quality of players. I feel for them guys. Maybe the TTFF(I am cringing), The govt and business should create an Academy like the USSF has in Bradenton. Take the the current team and put them in the camp where they will split their time between academics and football. Only go home every other weekend. They can study for their CXC, do skills and WEIGHT training etc, etc. That is my piece.

[palos]

The SSFL will also be losing influence on youth football.

Dat is one a de best tings dat could happen to we youth football.

[zuluwarrior]

5   - 0                 4 -1     that says a lot we looking like badddd

[Quags]

Nah it can t be just prep and coaching . It have to be something else also ,like self determination ,hardwork ,intesternal foritude ,testicular fortitude ,ambition ,great parenting ,life goals ,mental development ,training ,mental preperaton and mental toughest you got to have the balls to try to be the best , cant just lay all the blame on administration .

[Deeks]

Quagmire,
                 The kids have all the attributes. All TT youths have that. They just come up against  better quality players who has all the same attributes.

[WestCoast]

The SSFL will also be losing influence on youth football.

Dat is one a de best tings dat could happen to we youth football.

excuse me for asking this,
but
why is that Palos?
my opinion is that Inter-Col was a very important aspect of secondary schooling for me in TnT.
dem QRC fellas were the bane of our existence, right Mango Chow

[Quags]

Quagmire,
 The kids have all the attributes. All TT youths have that. They just come up against better quality players who has all the same attributes.

So a football academy ,with better coaching and state of the art training .and then still we might just be barely equals damn .

[Jahyouth]

lack of talent gentlemen.  that is the problem. 

When will we face the fact that we are not a hotbed of football talent on a global level?  Regionally yes we are.  But worldwide?  No we are not.

The quicker we face that fact the better.

Ask Beenhakker.  His strategy of defend defend defend and play on the counter at the international level worked well (to the chargin of the "purists" in the Trinidadian footballing communty).

Probably this is the lesson that Anton is taking from the youth World Cup: we doh have the talent to compete at this level.  Defend and counter is our best srategy.

[Quags]

Ok so I have a ques ,if say this new kid Britto ,move to say Holland or France and continue training there ,could he be world class .

[Observer]

Ok so I have a ques ,if say this new kid Britto ,move to say Holland or France and continue training there ,could he be world class .

Lets just say the potential to be a top level player will be multiplied (after all he could also not make it). Just look at what an early move did for Dwight.

[Mango Chow!]

The SSFL will also be losing influence on youth football.

Dat is one a de best tings dat could happen to we youth football.

excuse me for asking this,
but
why is that Palos?
my opinion is that Inter-Col was a very important aspect of secondary schooling for me in TnT.
dem QRC fellas were the bane of our existence, right Mango Chow

   .......WestCoast I eh sure wha yuh mean by dat one, nuh.  Like yuh tryin' and lead meh into a trap.........unless yuh is a St. Francois/Holyname/Providence/Tranquil/Woodbrook Sec./Bishops gyul.........or a fatima/cic/trinity man.....we used to mash up dem folks regular, the latter on the football field, of course!  

 But seriously, though folks, the SSFL is the least of our worries when it comes to our youths' deveopment.  It is a customary and necessary part of Secondary school life that no student/parent/player/fan who wants to enjoy it should be deprived of.  I think instead of certain people spending all the ttff funds on themselves and their csons adn their croonies, the ttff needs to invest in the acadamies, programs and people (coaches) that we have discussed ad infinitum on and off this forum.  As a matter of continuity, I agree/suggest that whomever a school so chooses to run their football program, that person should have attained some sort of accreditation from the ttff, even if it's the most basic of coaching courses.  Doing away with the SSFL or somehow stifling the participation of our "potential" national team prospects isn't going to cut it.  Nor is it going to really effectively contribute to our development. 

[WestCoast]

.......WestCoast I eh sure wha yuh mean by dat one, nuh.  Like yuh tryin' and lead meh into a trap.........unless yuh is a St. Francois/Holyname/Providence/Tranquil/Woodbrook Sec./Bishops gyul.........or a fatima/ CIC /trinity man.....we used to mash up dem folks regular, the latter on the football field, of course!  

allya was trouble oui

[Mango Chow!]

.......WestCoast I eh sure wha yuh mean by dat one, nuh.  Like yuh tryin' and lead meh into a trap.........unless yuh is a St. Francois/Holyname/Providence/Tranquil/Woodbrook Sec./Bishops gyul.........or a fatima/ CIC /trinity man.....we used to mash up dem folks regular, the latter on the football field, of course!  

allya was trouble oui

   Doh mind dat......Shaka and Kona give us enough trouble back in de day as to have earned allyuh some knda retribution!! 

[PantherX]

People don't go to SSFL games for the quality of the football on display it's more a matter an emotional connection to the school.

An academy system will definitely affect the standard of SSFL play but I doubt it will make a difference in attendence on the other hand it would make a big difference (if done correctly) to quality of our national team.

The SSFL have to take a back seat here.

[Mango Chow!]

People don't go to SSFL games for the quality of the football on display it's more a matter an emotional connection to the school.

An academy system will definitely affect the standard of SSFL play but I doubt it will make a difference in attendence on the other hand it would make a big difference (if done correctly) to quality of our national team.

The SSFL have to take a back seat here.

     Ultimately, though, it would be nice if we could establish a system  (through programs run by the ttff and the respective pro league clubs) whereby our players can see growth and development from such an early age as to allow players to still make a substantial contribution to the overall standard of play in the SSFL, and reserve the acadamy slots for only the very best of the best in the country, including the men that may have been extremely talented but not so inclined to have attended or represented any one secondary school or another.  Just a sentiment.

[john_public]

while anyone wearin a tnt shirt i support fully, this is not the best youths we have at under 17, i said it befor i will continue to, ppl  might say i`m sayin that casue mabe i know somebody or my fam or friend shuda been there and i have no coachin pin,

but after all that i say this is not our best team, and as really hopin that they get the most of them playin for fatima this yr( been told thats inthamain, to try atlease) and then it`ll be left to be seen

all that aside fellars tom is the last, germany is a really hard team but fight, work extra hard leave it all in asia, at the end of the day i still backin strong

[palos]

People don't go to SSFL games for the quality of the football on display it's more a matter an emotional connection to the school.

An academy system will definitely affect the standard of SSFL play but I doubt it will make a difference in attendence on the other hand it would make a big difference (if done correctly) to quality of our national team.

The SSFL have to take a back seat here.

     Ultimately, though, it would be nice if we could establish a system  (through programs run by the ttff and the respective pro league clubs) whereby our players can see growth and development from such an early age as to allow players to still make a substantial contribution to the overall standard of play in the SSFL, and reserve the acadamy slots for only the very best of the best in the country, including the men that may have been extremely talented but not so inclined to have attended or represented any one secondary school or another.  Just a sentiment.

The SSFL will need to have RADICAL SURGERY for it to have any meaningful benefit to youth football development in T&T.

If it continues as it is and has always been, we will continue to be so far behind with regards to international competition as to be rendered IRRELEVANT.

Harsh?  Yes

True?  Absofactinlutely!

If we want to stay with the status quo....so be it.  Jes doh complain when we take de kinda licks in international competition dat we do.  And I eh sayin de SSFL is de ONLY reason why we gettin licks.  But it is still the vehicle by which we continue to believe we "producin" footballers and it eh nutting of de sort.  As long as it remains a priority...it counter productive.

Jes my opinion doh.

[Mango Chow!]

People don't go to SSFL games for the quality of the football on display it's more a matter an emotional connection to the school.

An academy system will definitely affect the standard of SSFL play but I doubt it will make a difference in attendence on the other hand it would make a big difference (if done correctly) to quality of our national team.

The SSFL have to take a back seat here.

     Ultimately, though, it would be nice if we could establish a system  (through programs run by the ttff and the respective pro league clubs) whereby our players can see growth and development from such an early age as to allow players to still make a substantial contribution to the overall standard of play in the SSFL, and reserve the acadamy slots for only the very best of the best in the country, including the men that may have been extremely talented but not so inclined to have attended or represented any one secondary school or another.  Just a sentiment.

The SSFL will need to have RADICAL SURGERY for it to have any meaningful benefit to youth football development in T&T.

If it continues as it is and has always been, we will continue to be so far behind with regards to international competition as to be rendered IRRELEVANT.

Harsh?  Yes

True?  Absofactinlutely!

If we want to stay with the status quo....so be it.  Jes doh complain when we take de kinda licks in international competition dat we do.  And I eh sayin de SSFL is de ONLY reason why we gettin licks.  But it is still the vehicle by which we continue to believe we "producin" footballers and it eh nutting of de sort.  As long as it remains a priority...it counter productive.

Jes my opinion doh.

  But Palos, if the SSFL is obligated to the schools and the ttff is obligated to the country, ent if the ttff doh do what they have to do to develop our football as a nation, yet THEY (ttff) continue to "use" the ssfl as "the pool" fromwhich they continue to draw from for our national youth teams, then shouldn't this be an issue we shouldall be having with the ttff?

[palos]

People don't go to SSFL games for the quality of the football on display it's more a matter an emotional connection to the school.

An academy system will definitely affect the standard of SSFL play but I doubt it will make a difference in attendence on the other hand it would make a big difference (if done correctly) to quality of our national team.

The SSFL have to take a back seat here.

     Ultimately, though, it would be nice if we could establish a system  (through programs run by the ttff and the respective pro league clubs) whereby our players can see growth and development from such an early age as to allow players to still make a substantial contribution to the overall standard of play in the SSFL, and reserve the acadamy slots for only the very best of the best in the country, including the men that may have been extremely talented but not so inclined to have attended or represented any one secondary school or another.  Just a sentiment.

The SSFL will need to have RADICAL SURGERY for it to have any meaningful benefit to youth football development in T&T.

If it continues as it is and has always been, we will continue to be so far behind with regards to international competition as to be rendered IRRELEVANT.

Harsh?  Yes

True?  Absofactinlutely!

If we want to stay with the status quo....so be it.  Jes doh complain when we take de kinda licks in international competition dat we do.  And I eh sayin de SSFL is de ONLY reason why we gettin licks.  But it is still the vehicle by which we continue to believe we "producin" footballers and it eh nutting of de sort.  As long as it remains a priority...it counter productive.

Jes my opinion doh.

  But Palos, if the SSFL is obligated to the schools and the ttff is obligated to the country, ent if the ttff doh do what they have to do to develop our football as a nation, yet THEY (ttff) continue to "use" the ssfl as "the pool" fromwhich they continue to draw from for our national youth teams, then shouldn't this be an issue we shouldall be having with the ttff?

SSFL has resisted every association with the TTFF (some may say with good reason) despite previous efforts so is not a TTFF issue at all.

A 2 month season.....having players play 3 games a week (some 4) and then absolutely nothing save a 1 month preparation for said season does nothing for development.

SSFL and it's competitions is a showcase league.  Is de ultimate play to the gallery competition.  Little or no development takes place.  Even less truly qualified coaches are at the helm of these teams.  Whatever little development we have takes place at the grassroots level and recently at the PFL junior club level.  The national media covers SSFL.  They don't cover youth football outside of that.

There is a powerful emotional connection that people attach to their schools and former schools.  I get that.  But instead of building on that and helping the SSFL to evolve so that it can AUGMENT the GREATER National picture.....they prefer to stand still and be footballing dinosaurs.  When a National coach suggests that the best players from our U 17's sit out the SSFL season to try and properly prepare for a World Cup qualification, people get all up in arms.  Yuh dilutin Intercol dey say.  Intercol is but a blip in de overall scheme of things.  It does absolutely NOTHING for these players.  How many foreign scouts come to INTERCOL matches looking for players?  Allyuh get serious nah man.  At least now the players themselves see for themselves what they up against.  THAT to me is a positive.

As I say.....no problem.  If we want to continue the status quo, do not blame national players & coaches when we go to virtual nuclear football war armed wit cap gun.

[kounty]

for the people omn the board who does wach college "football'' and nfl.  I see the exact same thing with ssfl and natinal team ball.  NFL (ttff) have no control over ncaa (ssfl) and rightly so because ncaa (ssfl) should have the total academic and personal growth of the larger majority of students as first priority.  I doh tink if man fail all dey o's ttff goin and really care and leave dem off the natn'l team.  nobody watcin football in T&T and with SSFL you have a built in crowd.  all the best players in the nfl come from the ncaa.  why ssfl can't be made to work?

[futbolfan]

for the people omn the board who does wach college "football'' and nfl.  I see the exact same thing with ssfl and natinal team ball.  NFL (ttff) have no control over ncaa (ssfl) and rightly so because ncaa (ssfl) should have the total academic and personal growth of the larger majority of students as first priority.  I doh tink if man fail all dey o's ttff goin and really care and leave dem off the natn'l team.  nobody watcin football in T&T and with SSFL you have a built in crowd.  all the best players in the nfl come from the ncaa.  why ssfl can't be made to work?

There is no comparison whatsoever between these entities...The NCAA is a multi billion dollar association where as the SSFL..... The NFL compared to the TTFF   

[pardners]

  But Palos, if the SSFL is obligated to the schools and the ttff is obligated to the country, ent if the ttff doh do what they have to do to develop our football as a nation, yet THEY (ttff) continue to "use" the ssfl as "the pool" fromwhich they continue to draw from for our national youth teams, then shouldn't this be an issue we shouldall be having with the ttff?

SSFL has resisted every association with the TTFF (some may say with good reason) despite previous efforts so is not a TTFF issue at all.

A 2 month season.....having players play 3 games a week (some 4) and then absolutely nothing save a 1 month preparation for said season does nothing for development.

SSFL and it's competitions is a showcase league.  Is de ultimate play to the gallery competition.  Little or no development takes place.  Even less truly qualified coaches are at the helm of these teams.  Whatever little development we have takes place at the grassroots level and recently at the PFL junior club level.  The national media covers SSFL.  They don't cover youth football outside of that.

There is a powerful emotional connection that people attach to their schools and former schools.  I get that.  But instead of building on that and helping the SSFL to evolve so that it can AUGMENT the GREATER National picture.....they prefer to stand still and be footballing dinosaurs.  When a National coach suggests that the best players from our U 17's sit out the SSFL season to try and properly prepare for a World Cup qualification, people get all up in arms. Yuh dilutin Intercol dey say. Intercol is but a blip in de overall scheme of things. It does absolutely NOTHING for these players. How many foreign scouts come to INTERCOL matches looking for players? Allyuh get serious nah man. At least now the players themselves see for themselves what they up against. THAT to me is a positive.

As I say.....no problem.  If we want to continue the status quo, do not blame national players & coaches when we go to virtual nuclear football war armed wit cap gun.

 

Palos, like yuh was listening to the clip from John Williams at the Professional Football Semiinar the other day ?

John Williams first made a statement to the effect that SSFL killiing youth football in T&T and that they should do away with it.  A fella in the crowd get up and tried to take him to task for that...using basically the argument mentioned before in the thread.

John Williams then qualified his statements explaining himself in detail by saying some of the things Palos mentioned.  What I found thought provoking was that all the youths at the international level tournaments are professionals and represent major professional clubs, whereas our guys represent schools.  He mentioned that the SSFL should be working along with the PFL.

Our SSFL select team get a set a licks up the Caribbean some moths ago.  The Jamaica school boys team beat our guys at home some months ago as well...two or three games straight in one week.  What does that say about the SSFL ?

The irony of the situation is that the school teams are the feeder for the PFL clubs.

[Mango Chow!]

People don't go to SSFL games for the quality of the football on display it's more a matter an emotional connection to the school.

An academy system will definitely affect the standard of SSFL play but I doubt it will make a difference in attendence on the other hand it would make a big difference (if done correctly) to quality of our national team.

The SSFL have to take a back seat here.

     Ultimately, though, it would be nice if we could establish a system  (through programs run by the ttff and the respective pro league clubs) whereby our players can see growth and development from such an early age as to allow players to still make a substantial contribution to the overall standard of play in the SSFL, and reserve the acadamy slots for only the very best of the best in the country, including the men that may have been extremely talented but not so inclined to have attended or represented any one secondary school or another.  Just a sentiment.

The SSFL will need to have RADICAL SURGERY for it to have any meaningful benefit to youth football development in T&T.

If it continues as it is and has always been, we will continue to be so far behind with regards to international competition as to be rendered IRRELEVANT.

Harsh?  Yes

True?  Absofactinlutely!

If we want to stay with the status quo....so be it.  Jes doh complain when we take de kinda licks in international competition dat we do.  And I eh sayin de SSFL is de ONLY reason why we gettin licks.  But it is still the vehicle by which we continue to believe we "producin" footballers and it eh nutting of de sort.  As long as it remains a priority...it counter productive.

Jes my opinion doh.

  But Palos, if the SSFL is obligated to the schools and the ttff is obligated to the country, ent if the ttff doh do what they have to do to develop our football as a nation, yet THEY (ttff) continue to "use" the ssfl as "the pool" fromwhich they continue to draw from for our national youth teams, then shouldn't this be an issue we shouldall be having with the ttff?

SSFL has resisted every association with the TTFF (some may say with good reason) despite previous efforts so is not a TTFF issue at all.

A 2 month season.....having players play 3 games a week (some 4) and then absolutely nothing save a 1 month preparation for said season does nothing for development.

SSFL and it's competitions is a showcase league.  Is de ultimate play to the gallery competition.  Little or no development takes place.  Even less truly qualified coaches are at the helm of these teams.  Whatever little development we have takes place at the grassroots level and recently at the PFL junior club level.  The national media covers SSFL.  They don't cover youth football outside of that.

There is a powerful emotional connection that people attach to their schools and former schools.  I get that.  But instead of building on that and helping the SSFL to evolve so that it can AUGMENT the GREATER National picture.....they prefer to stand still and be footballing dinosaurs.  When a National coach suggests that the best players from our U 17's sit out the SSFL season to try and properly prepare for a World Cup qualification, people get all up in arms.  Yuh dilutin Intercol dey say.  Intercol is but a blip in de overall scheme of things.  It does absolutely NOTHING for these players.  How many foreign scouts come to INTERCOL matches looking for players?  Allyuh get serious nah man.  At least now the players themselves see for themselves what they up against.  THAT to me is a positive.

As I say.....no problem.  If we want to continue the status quo, do not blame national players & coaches when we go to virtual nuclear football war armed wit cap gun.

   I guess we go hafta agree to disagree, Palos, because I understand all what you are saying, but the reason that the ssfl is the showcase for scouts of all types is because of an absence of a proper plan and system of developing our youths (from an early age) in the first place.  Would you really want jack warner and oliver camps and company to have a say-so in how our schools nurture and educate their "student-athletes"?
Granted, jack used to be a teacher and all, but I certainly wouldn't want that.  Since the pro league falls directly under the jurisdiction of the ttff, wouldn't it be easier to set up coaching acadamies for coaches and players through them rather than fight down and subsequently blame the ssfl for our international failures?  I know that teams like WASA and Crab Connection, etc., are mandated to field youth teams in order to partake in their league (and I presume the same applies to the tt pro league teams).  Why not extend that mandate from Under-18 all the way down to Under-8 while making it equally mandatory that each team's entire coaching staff be minimally certified by ttff/concacaf/fifa standards?  Wouldn't we begin to see an overall improvement in the standard of football throughout the country if that were the case?  We have the resources, we have people in power and we definitely have the money.  We are pointing fngers at the ssfl and yet we don't even have an established national "standard" for our coaches or players to even aspire to.   I can go on and on with the suggestions, but realistically, our iprovement on the international stage HAS to start with our youths, pre-secondary school age, and it has to start with our national football federation.

[WestCoast]

I guess we go hafta agree to disagree, Palos, because I understand all what you are saying, but the reason that the ssfl is the showcase for scouts of all types is because of an absence of a proper plan and system of developing our youths (from an early age) in the first place.  Would you really want jack warner and oliver camps and company to have a say-so in how our schools nurture and educate their "student-athletes"?
Granted, jack used to be a teacher and all, but I certainly wouldn't want that.  Since the pro league falls directly under the jurisdiction of the ttff, wouldn't it be easier to set up coaching acadamies for coaches and players through them rather than fight down and subsequently blame the ssfl for our international failures?  I know that teams like WASA and Crab Connection, etc., are mandated to field youth teams in order to partake in their league (and I presume the same applies to the tt pro league teams).  Why not extend that mandate from Under-18 all the way down to Under-8 while making it equally mandatory that each team's entire coaching staff be minimally certified by ttff/concacaf/fifa standards?  Wouldn't we begin to see an overall improvement in the standard of football throughout the country if that were the case?  We have the resources, we have people in power and we definitely have the money.  We are pointing fngers at the ssfl and yet we don't even have an established national "standard" for our coaches or players to even aspire to.   I can go on and on with the suggestions, but realistically, our iprovement on the international stage HAS to start with our youths, pre-secondary school age, and it has to start with our national football federation.

very well said Mango Chow

[palos]

  I guess we go hafta agree to disagree, Palos, because I understand all what you are saying, but the reason that the ssfl is the showcase for scouts of all types is because of an absence of a proper plan and system of developing our youths (from an early age) in the first place.  Would you really want jack warner and oliver camps and company to have a say-so in how our schools nurture and educate their "student-athletes"?
Granted, jack used to be a teacher and all, but I certainly wouldn't want that.  Since the pro league falls directly under the jurisdiction of the ttff, wouldn't it be easier to set up coaching acadamies for coaches and players through them rather than fight down and subsequently blame the ssfl for our international failures?  I know that teams like WASA and Crab Connection, etc., are mandated to field youth teams in order to partake in their league (and I presume the same applies to the tt pro league teams).  Why not extend that mandate from Under-18 all the way down to Under-8 while making it equally mandatory that each team's entire coaching staff be minimally certified by ttff/concacaf/fifa standards?  Wouldn't we begin to see an overall improvement in the standard of football throughout the country if that were the case?  We have the resources, we have people in power and we definitely have the money.  We are pointing fngers at the ssfl and yet we don't even have an established national "standard" for our coaches or players to even aspire to.   I can go on and on with the suggestions, but realistically, our iprovement on the international stage HAS to start with our youths, pre-secondary school age, and it has to start with our national football federation.

I see what you sayin and you make good points.  But when time came for the U 17 team to prepare....everybody was up in arms about the suggestion that the best players not play in the SSFL that season.  So when SSFL becomes a priority over a National effort, I see it as counter productive.  But no worries....plenty people still love dem cap gun.

[WestCoast]

I see what you sayin and you make good points.  But when time came for the U 17 team to prepare....everybody was up in arms about the suggestion that the best players not play in the SSFL that season.  So when SSFL becomes a priority over a National effort, I see it as counter productive.  But no worries....plenty people still love dem cap gun.

Palos, Would a country like England develop their players in Post Secondary Schools this way?
or do the schools have a strong system.

[JDB]

lack of talent gentlemen.  that is the problem. 

That is it right there in a nutshell.

People have to remember that we playing against teams who trying to win too. We have a smaller player pool than most, if not all the teams at these tournaments. We also play a lower level of football so the players are not as developed.

This is not track and field or boxing where the fortuitous emergence of one shining talent could have us competing with the world's best. You need a team, and one Latapy, one Yorke and one Shaka is still not enough.

I don't know why we would expect to beat teams at this level or feel embarrassed by the results especially since we still lack experience.

We don't have the players so unless we doing something better than Germany, Brazil and Argentina on the player development side (which we can't) we will struggle to compete.

For every Cameroon or Greece that exceeds expectations in a major tournament you have the other 90% of underdog teams who get their asses washed regularly. Although it would be nice to think that should be one of the teams that will spring a surprise that don't make it so.

At this point we should be looking for our football to improve which doen't mean that we will be world beaters. Frequent qualification for these tournaments, showing that we are improving against Concacaf opposition before we get hung up on beating Germany or Ghana.

[palos]

lack of talent gentlemen.  that is the problem. 

That is it right there in a nutshell.

People have to remember that we playing against teams who trying to win too. We have a smaller player pool than most, if not all the teams at these tournaments. We also play a lower level of football so the players are not as developed.

This is not track and field or boxing where the fortuitous emergence of one shining talent could have us competing with the world's best. You need a team, and one Latapy, one Yorke and one Shaka is still not enough.

I don't know why we would expect to beat teams at this level or feel embarrassed by the results especially since we still lack experience.

We don't have the players so unless we doing something better than Germany, Brazil and Argentina on the player development side (which we can't) we will struggle to compete.

For every Cameroon or Greece that exceeds expectations in a major tournament you have the other 90% of underdog teams who get their asses washed regularly. Although it would be nice to think that should be one of the teams that will spring a surprise that don't make it so.

At this point we should be looking for our football to improve which doen't mean that we will be world beaters. Frequent qualification for these tournaments, showing that we are improving against Concacaf opposition before we get hung up on beating Germany or Ghana.

I disagree about the talent thing.

Talent is a subjective assesment at best.  We have that innately.

We have talent.  What we fall short in is technical ability, discipline, fitness, experience against a high level of opposition, tactics, movement without the ball, organization etc.

These are all things that can be taught.  These are all things that are not being taught at a young enough age in order for us to COMPETE with teams who repeatedly qualify for World Cup tournaments.

This is what we need to focus on if we want to be COMPETITIVE in the international arena.  If we don't do these things...we will continue to be left behind because this is the MINIMUM of what the other established countries in CONCACAF, far less in world football, are doing.

If we don't.  We MIGHT qualify for a World Cup every now and then and the ONLY reason we would have done so would be because things fall in our favour, we scrape a last spot, and that innate talent that was previously mentioned.  In other words.....by guess...not by plan.

[takenoprisoners]

lack of talent gentlemen.  that is the problem. 
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We were once able to produce schoolboys playing on the National senior team who went on to prove themselves against international competition in the NASL and Mexico. Talent was not a problem then and it is not now. Politics is the problem, we are not all working together. Dom Basil Mathews was able to get around these road blocks by hiring first rate coaches and establishing St Benedicts as a poor man's football academy. Check this thread to refreshen some memories.
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=15576.0