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Offline kaiser

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in defence of intercol
« on: September 01, 2007, 04:06:28 AM »
in recent times a lot of people including the u17 local coaches have called for intercol to be stopped saying that it hurts development and all that garbage,that is total and utter B.S. these men are just looking for a scapegoat to hide their own inadequacies in the coaching department,intercol, before the youth pro leagues inception was and still will continue to be the well which we draw our talented youngsters from,it seems that people who have had their fill of water from this well now talking it bad,intercol is part of the trinidad cultural landscape to do away with it is to continue to lose our identities as t&t citizens,we trinis are always ashamed of what is special and dear to us and always want to substitute that for something foreign or international,instead of trying to improve or perfect what we have so people can follow our system,people lets be leaders not followers,leave intercol alone let the boys have fun.{P.S  I am strongly supporting ST ANTHONYS COLLEGE }

Offline Coop's

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2007, 05:04:26 AM »
in recent times a lot of people including the u17 local coaches have called for intercol to be stopped saying that it hurts development and all that garbage,that is total and utter B.S. these men are just looking for a scapegoat to hide their own inadequacies in the coaching department,intercol, before the youth pro leagues inception was and still will continue to be the well which we draw our talented youngsters from,it seems that people who have had their fill of water from this well now talking it bad,intercol is part of the trinidad cultural landscape to do away with it is to continue to lose our identities as t&t citizens,we trinis are always ashamed of what is special and dear to us and always want to substitute that for something foreign or international,instead of trying to improve or perfect what we have so people can follow our system,people lets be leaders not followers,leave intercol alone let the boys have fun.{P.S  I am strongly supporting ST ANTHONYS COLLEGE }
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Offline palos

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2007, 05:18:17 AM »
in recent times a lot of people including the u17 local coaches have called for intercol to be stopped saying that it hurts development and all that garbage,that is total and utter B.S. these men are just looking for a scapegoat to hide their own inadequacies in the coaching department,intercol, before the youth pro leagues inception was and still will continue to be the well which we draw our talented youngsters from,it seems that people who have had their fill of water from this well now talking it bad,intercol is part of the trinidad cultural landscape to do away with it is to continue to lose our identities as t&t citizens,we trinis are always ashamed of what is special and dear to us and always want to substitute that for something foreign or international,instead of trying to improve or perfect what we have so people can follow our system,people lets be leaders not followers,leave intercol alone let the boys have fun.{P.S  I am strongly supporting ST ANTHONYS COLLEGE }

I hope when next T&T goes into competition against international teams and collects the usual 5 and 6, that you do not utter a single word of complaint.
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Offline kaiser

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2007, 05:55:49 AM »
palos is not intercol causing us to be embarassed internationally it is because of poor tactics,under preperation,and poor squad selection

Offline freakazoid

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2007, 06:14:27 AM »
to place the blame solely on intercol is wrong, but there must be things done  to improve it

for instance anyone can coach an intercol team, there isnt any qualification restrictions. so restrictions could be placed to ensure that u cant coach a team unless you have a certain level of qualification. thats a start

i am not a master of the american system but isnt their sports system linked to the school? there are many differences with how they do it  and  how intercol is conducted. for instance our sch football season is way too short 4 me among other things
« Last Edit: September 01, 2007, 07:34:45 AM by freakazoid »
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Offline palos

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2007, 06:54:53 AM »
palos is not intercol causing us to be embarassed internationally it is because of poor tactics,under preperation,and poor squad selection

When they say let the players take a break from Intercol to try and work on the same poor tactics, preparation etc, allyuh did say Intercol must prevail.

Ah tired tell people....intercol doh PRODUCE nobody.  Is a gallery league.  I eh sayin to do away with it.  But as SSFL and intercol currently stands, it is a DETRIMENT to National team players hoping to progess in that field.  It is no different than that Passa Passa Tournament Kerwyn Jemmott get ban for participating in.  Simply, do not sacrifice the National team players at the altar of Intercol because it does absolutely NOTHING for them in the global scheme of things.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2007, 06:56:33 AM by palos »
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Offline Jahyouth

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2007, 06:58:58 AM »
Intercol good for gallery and girls.  Not producing quality players.  Plain talk bad manners.

Offline Observer

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2007, 07:45:34 AM »
Wim has been working with that squad on a regular basis ever since before Qualification, but that is another story.

How can player development truely be linked to Intercol, when the season is three months long? In a three month season laced with games, how often does proper training take place?

Lets forget tactic and all that, how about player for player.

Did you see Ghana, Colombia, & Germany players? Now how did we match up?  No one saying get rid of Intercol but honestly the standard is no where near what is needed. Watching Intercol the young players have so much space to play that anyone would look decent. And if your argument has merit, then the coaches at Intercol suffer from the same poor tactics, training habits, preparation etc. Then because of this the entire player development environment that Intercol is imagined to provide will also be inadequate.

On another note people always talking about tactics, but tactics in my limited knowledge is directly related to technique. If their are technical limitations then their will be limited tactics.
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Offline john_public

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2007, 07:47:48 AM »
i in full support of the intercol also,

i think we expect sp much more from our players than there ability can do, most times it`s the mentality of the players and we as fans expect so much more than they even imagine fro themselves.

who say players neva come from intercol? so befor al this under 17 and under 15 pro, where de use to come from eddie hart, and north league  around sav.? or sunday morning in king george ground?

and where did the under 17 team that were all so proud off come from? ( de same side that all of u make so much noice from in de HC)

and after than what de intercol do to hamper theses youths makin it in football?


anyway as i said i for intercol, and i`m a book supporter. after them anybody from de east

it all commin east again.


kaiser anthonys beat we once in pre season already, so when de real thing start get ready for a beatin  ;D :devil: :beermug:)

Offline palos

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2007, 07:56:44 AM »
who say players neva come from intercol? so befor al this under 17 and under 15 pro, where de use to come from eddie hart, and north league  around sav.? or sunday morning in king george ground?

and where did the under 17 team that were all so proud off come from? ( de same side that all of u make so much noice from in de HC)

and after than what de intercol do to hamper theses youths makin it in football?

Saying that Intercol or SSFL PRODUCE our players is like saying House of Dread in de Poor House League PRODUCE Eric White and dem.

REPRESENTING a school or team and that school or team PRODUCING thoe players is 2 completely different things.

To directly answer your question, about the U 17's.  No school PRODUCED those players.  They were PRODUCED by the likes of Superstar Rangers, Jabloteh, other PFL teams with junior teams, and the coaches throughout T&T who often work in the background without much recognition.  Men like Jean Lilywhite, Anthony Street and Jan Steadman (who yes....coaches Naps but doesn't just stop at Intercol).  The noteable exception to that is Signal Hill who were coached by Bertille St Clair but he also had his coaching school.

Back in de day, you could say to some extent Benedicts PRODUCE Archibald, De Leon, David and dem fellas because Brunner had dem in a quasi Academy which was ahead of it's time for Trinidad football.  But dat eh de case these days.

Yuh really think San Fernando Tech PRODUCE Russell Latapy or Leonson Lewis?  Get real nah breddrin.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2007, 08:01:16 AM by palos »
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Offline freakazoid

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2007, 08:05:14 AM »
actually with the signal hill team, once u made the squad u were allowed to train in his coaching sch,actually it was more or less mandatory i
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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2007, 08:18:16 AM »
I doh understand why we still strikin' dis hammer dat is the Intercol.  Dat iron done cold already.........Intercol is neither responsible for producing our football talent, nor does it purport itself to be the primary, secondary or tertiary source or system of development of our national team players.  Intercol is there to provide a healthy league of inter-school competition amongst our nation's schools.  That's it.  Intercol wasn't responsible for makin' Latas into what he became........nor did it keep him back FROM becoming what he became, and the same can be said for most, if not all, of our players that went on to greater achievements.
   Why do we keep harping on "what intercol is doing to our players" and how it "keeping them back"?  Is the damned ttff and scamps and jack and dem that is keeping our nation's players back, nobody else. 


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Offline Father Abraham

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2007, 08:20:49 AM »
the bible says - train a child in how he should go so when he is old he would not turn away from it.

so then how can they blame the poor performances on intercol, no, it is the proper training, system, technique, mindset that is developed from a young age that carries over that has led to the current problem.

we need a complete overhaul to be able to contend with soccer on the international level and not the intercol to blame. the intercol is simply the result of what has been taught at the youthful level and to be honest it stinks.

Offline Observer

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2007, 08:40:02 AM »
What we should actually be discussing are the merits of Primary School football and how we can get our better coaches working at this age, with a specific focus on improving technique. This of course could supplement similar programs at the club level (if they already exist)
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Offline Savannah boy

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2007, 09:48:03 AM »
I doh care how dear de memories are.  Is still ah joke league.  Yuh see serious formation problems.  Left winger down by de right corner flag raising he hand for pass...all kinda dotishness.  Do some of those teams even know how to run an off side trap?  Making dat league better eh go compete against year round Academies and Top Notch Clubs.  Intercol?  Talent should be identified well before the Colt Level.  Compare our feeder system vs Spain for example.

Intercol vs http://www.fifa.com/u20worldcup/teams/team=1888256/squadlist.html

 ???

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2007, 12:09:47 PM »
Freakazoid stated:
Quote
i am not a master of the american system but isnt their sports system linked to the school? there are many differences with how they do it  and  how intercol is conducted. for instance our sch football season is way too short 4 me among other things

He may have been referring to collegiate ball, but  ... Can someone familiar with the US high school game make an objective comparison of it relative to Intercol?

Offline Arimaman

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2007, 12:11:20 PM »
palos is not intercol causing us to be embarassed internationally it is because of poor tactics,under preperation,and poor squad selection

Fella, some of what you say is correct, however, whatever happen to player development, proper training facilities, size, speed etc?

If you think we get licks b/c of poor squad selection, preparation and tactics you joking.  We couldda ha all kinda tactics, but if the other teams just better, wha yuh go do?
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Offline Coop's

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2007, 12:28:37 PM »
I don't care what anyone says all our national team players came from the Colleges League,Yorke,Latapy,Shaka,John etc etc nobody would of seen or given them the opportunity if it was not for the Colleges League,the Colleges League is the only thing from the past in Football that still exist today that's why you can get more crowds attending those games than the Pro League (it's history),i can't understand how they talking up the youth league when the kids that play in that league comes from the schools,don't fool yourselves and say it's the other way around,our problem is coaching in these schools,i've coached in the Colleges League for a number of years and been succesfull,i can say first hand some of these Coaches themselves need coaching,not because you play you can Coach,dealing with players,planning sessions(what to teach),what system is best for your players etc etc I think the ministry of sport should take control of coaching in schools and Coaches should have some form of qualification to Coach,in conclusion my thoughts are in order to have these guys play more Football,have the Youth League play the first half of the year and the Colleges League the other half.

Offline football king

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2007, 01:13:34 PM »
Why not improve the ssfl(e.g.1 national 1st divisionof the top 12 to 16 teams) and make it a part of the overall youth development program. 
Men who blow up in the ssfl get invited to the national pool another source to identify talented players.  Coops raise a good point about the coaching. That badly needs to be addressed. If the coaching not up to par then we go always be in trouble. who go do the scouting, teaching etc for this grandiose development plan. LP Wim anton alone go handle it??

Plus if no ssfl then ah can't give meh san juan, gustine Arima pardners talk when the town schools bust they tail.  ;D

Offline Arimaman

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2007, 01:29:22 PM »
Why not improve the ssfl(e.g.1 national 1st divisionof the top 12 to 16 teams) and make it a part of the overall youth development program. 
Men who blow up in the ssfl get invited to the national pool another source to identify talented players.  Coops raise a good point about the coaching. That badly needs to be addressed. If the coaching not up to par then we go always be in trouble. who go do the scouting, teaching etc for this grandiose development plan. LP Wim anton alone go handle it??

Plus if no ssfl then ah can't give meh san juan, gustine Arima pardners talk when the town schools bust they tail.  ;D

You is a real clown yes  ;D

I always like the idea of the top 12 schools in a top division, then everybody else fight for promotion.  Teams shouldn't be getting 10 goals in a game man, make the damn thing competitive.
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Offline football king

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2007, 01:37:49 PM »
Why not improve the ssfl(e.g.1 national 1st divisionof the top 12 to 16 teams) and make it a part of the overall youth development program. 
Men who blow up in the ssfl get invited to the national pool another source to identify talented players.  Coops raise a good point about the coaching. That badly needs to be addressed. If the coaching not up to par then we go always be in trouble. who go do the scouting, teaching etc for this grandiose development plan. LP Wim anton alone go handle it??

Plus if no ssfl then ah can't give meh san juan, gustine Arima pardners talk when the town schools bust they tail.  ;D

You is a real clown yes  ;D

I always like the idea of the top 12 schools in a top division, then everybody else fight for promotion.  Teams shouldn't be getting 10 goals in a game man, make the damn thing competitive.

wait who get them 10 goal again, details kinda foggy, thinking it was a school up east by the dial???
 :whistling:  :whistling:

Coops no wonder want keep ssffl going yuh san juan finally come back to a level of decency.  ;D wait till we hold all yuh this rounds.


Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2007, 01:49:41 PM »
Intercol is great part of T&Ts heritage. Trinidadians have a profound emotional attachment to their schools than most and Intercol is is a driving force behind this school spirit. Schoolboyfootball was a wonderful introduction to the process of establishing friendships, socializing with girls and building as sense of pride. But as close to our hearts as it is ,intercol in its current state can no longer meet the needs of top-level youth football in T&T. Whatever our feelings about intercol the reality NOW is it is gradually being superceded by professional and community run football clubs in T&T. How did it come to this point? 

First, intercol as a gathering ground  for the best ballers in T&T is a myth. In T&T education was split along the lines of trades and classical education via common entrance. Many youths that failed CE were forced either to work from  a young age or join trade schools. Some of the best young players of this country  NEVER played in the Intercol showcase league.  In spite of our love of intercol it was always in a sense elitist football.

The education system in T&T and other post-colonial nations uses sport primarily as a metaphor for masculinity and as a vehicle for social development, NOT as an aim of education. Around the world, sport has been trumpeted to promote war, promote peace, promote cultural homogeneity, promote racial and ethnic tolerance, promote racial and ethnic division, and promote physical and mental well being.  But it is still  RARELY recognized as a real and viable PROFESSION for the young to aspire to. In Trinidad football is still MARGINALIZED from "real education". Hence few if any overtures have been made by government or SSFL to integrate football into the structure of  education, as an END, not simply as a means. 

But change is inevitable; when change occurs institutions and individuals must adapt, die or most commonly, face a lower quality of existence. Any sportsman knows this. The acceleration of international capital injection into football has changed the climate of the game everywhere including Trinidad.


Fact: The football world has changed forever.
Fact: SSFL has not responded to this change.
Fact: Private interests represented by the professional leagues will adapt to this change
Fact: The response of private interests will and is changing the structure of youth football around the globe and in Trinidad

Intercol is becoming increasingly irrelevant as the best players increasingly associate with their professional clubs.

We may not see it, but it is happening.

The school/club debate, like all debates is at its root about competing social values. SSFL supporters, quite rightly, believe intercol is  living history. But the SSFL rested on its laurels and has not  recreated itself. Because of this I really feel Intercol is in danger of being reduced to a "homecoming" style event from its current status as a national showcase league.

The people believe that the SSFL is impeding development only have a point if a footballer needs to play for their school in order to get a scholarship. If they do not, then simply continue national training, from what I gather most of the u-17 would skip intercol to train together anyway. Regardless, SSFL is neither the great saviour nor the great nemesis of Trini youth football the competing interest contend it is.

Anyway these are just my opinions, I freely admit to being very uninformed. Ah new here doh cuss meh too hard;  ;D ;D ;D but as a Trini I ah have to run mih mouth (fingers).
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Offline palos

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2007, 01:52:27 PM »
 :applause: :applause:  MUCH RESPECK!  :beermug:
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2007, 02:33:28 PM »
ok Palos and ZANDOLIE  I can now see what you both say about the deficiencies of the SSFL.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2007, 02:35:06 PM by WestCoast »
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Offline kaiser

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2007, 03:27:32 PM »
palos and zandolie i never said intercol does not have its faults my basic points are
1: it cannot be blamed for the insanity in korea that blame rests solely with the technical staff
2: it needs help and improvement but it is a part of our trini identity
anyone who posting against intercol maybe never played or was always on the bench :devil:because if you were a part of it the memories would be forever etched in your memory,eg the days when signal hill was a big team when yorke and williams and them coming down man not missing that ,or when nixon and the green machine up in the veledrome against arima and i could go on and on before we daefame it lets think of ways to improve it

Offline Coop's

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2007, 03:52:25 PM »
Food for thought,as shitty as people on here say College/High school Soccer in the US is and it's not good for our players etc etc you will never hear them talking about folding it or it's crap,the policy in the US is as long as a kid wants to play Soccer the opportunities are there for them,all ages,it even have leagues for handicap people,Coaches go through some form of training and they are paid.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2007, 04:15:14 PM by Coop's »

Offline KND2

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2007, 04:22:53 PM »
The youth player development will have to be linked with Clubs and what ever National development youth program we have.
"Training Academy" or what have you.

School football is not the place for that.

In the past we have had some football academies in certain schools that have produced good players through the school system.

The great Benedicts team that produced Deleon etc.
The great Signal Hill team that prduced Yorke, Hutchinson etc

These teams have one thing in common.
They recruited the best players, Had good committed coaching
And developed the players over years.

The end result was world class players.

The reason why "Intercol" is not producing these world class players is because the environment is not the same.

The environment is the Key, not just the word "Intercol"

If you dont have key men doing the coaching from a young age
Dedicated to producing the players.
Players who dedicated to train and learn
then just being a part of "Intercol" will not make you world class.


You get what you put in.

Fact is we need to take the key points that served us well in the past and add new learning of today and develop the players for tomorrow.

If you take we U17 team and ban them from Intercol for life the will not get any better.

If you take we U17 team and let them play Intercol whole day intercol cricket, intercol football and intercol badmenton they will not get better.

What we need to do is take we U17 team and put them in an "Intercol" environment from the past. One like what Benedicts and Signal Hill created that created great Intercol teams.
Then they will get better.


Not every player in the world can play in UEFA champions league.
However every player in the world can have a professional attitude, Train with pride and determination, Be part of a professional setup, experience professional coaching and Participate in a professional environment that is on Par with teams in Champions league.


The lil youth player say the level was too high and people back in Trinidad still playing at "Intercol" level.
I feel sorry for this youth because he is under the guidance of people who do not even know that they do not know.

If you playing shit you playing shit.
Whether or not it is intercol is beside the point.

The only question is if there is anyone in Trinidad and Tobago who is willing to put in the effort with the determination to build a team that can compete at a world level. (Assuming that they know what it will take) And also are their players with the ability both pysiscal and mental that are willing to be part of the journey.

This is not a complicated issue, the only thing complicated will be the excuses that people continue to give.

Offline Socafan

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2007, 04:31:15 PM »
What we should actually be discussing are the merits of Primary School football and how we can get our better coaches working at this age, with a specific focus on improving technique. This of course could supplement similar programs at the club level (if they already exist)

Dais ah good question....I cyar remember my primary school having a football team, or there being interschool rivalry. It really have that in TNT?

Question....anybody here play football for they primary school?
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Offline Arimaman

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2007, 04:40:44 PM »
What we should actually be discussing are the merits of Primary School football and how we can get our better coaches working at this age, with a specific focus on improving technique. This of course could supplement similar programs at the club level (if they already exist)

Dais ah good question....I cyar remember my primary school having a football team, or there being interschool rivalry. It really have that in TNT?

Question....anybody here play football for they primary school?

Asolutely.  I play for Mt. Lambert RC back in 81-82 and my brother play b4 that.  There was football in primary school, however, who coaching is the problem.  We basicially had a teacher that basically assemble the squad.
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Offline Jahyouth

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Re: in defence of intercol
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2007, 04:47:51 PM »
What we should actually be discussing are the merits of Primary School football and how we can get our better coaches working at this age, with a specific focus on improving technique. This of course could supplement similar programs at the club level (if they already exist)

Dais ah good question....I cyar remember my primary school having a football team, or there being interschool rivalry. It really have that in TNT?

Question....anybody here play football for they primary school?

Asolutely.  I play for Mt. Lambert RC back in 81-82 and my brother play b4 that.  There was football in primary school, however, who coaching is the problem.  We basicially had a teacher that basically assemble the squad.

Same here.  I played against Mickey Trotman in the East zone Primary school final.  We bounce up again some years later at the Intercol level.

No real quality in coaching at that level as far as I remember.  Maybe that is the root of the problem?

 

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