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Author Topic: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame  (Read 9614 times)

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Offline Coop's

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2007, 01:18:38 PM »
/

Based on footballing achievements, Dwight Yorke should make a Hall of Fame before David Beckham!

what allyuh tink bout that?

expand on this one....

Don't forget that Yorke win 3 League titles and a Treble all by himself.

No footballer in history has done that.
         I guess you are right when you say that because no Footballer can do that by themself,Football is a team game,is not singles he playing.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2007, 01:39:40 PM »
depends on the exclusivity of the hall of fame..

If is only for men like Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Psuskas, Eusebio, Zidane and Di Stefano then no he cant make the list... He doesn't have enough accolades to merit inclusion, and he was never THE BEST footballer on the planet...

But if I see men there like Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Romario, Weah, Baggio, Zico, Francescoli, Van Basten, Henry then most definitely he should be there..

Ronaldo was three time player of the year...Ronaldinho two-time...Weah African, European and World Player of the Year same year...Zico was also player of the year.  This title largely recognizes the player as the best in the world...so on that note alone they are more distinguishable than Yorke.

As a matter of fact, let me throw something out into this debate..

Based on footballing achievements, Dwight Yorke should make a Hall of Fame before David Beckham!

what allyuh tink bout that?

Never happen...Beckham has achieved more, and if he leads LA Galaxy to a title that would overshadow Yorke even more.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2007, 01:45:14 PM »
off the top of my head, Becks win de same titles as Yorke at Man Utd right??

Of the top of my head Beckham won titles with United before and after Yorke so they didn't exactly win the same titles.
Beckham was on that 1999 squad that won the Treble for Man U...so in actuality he won even more than Yorke (if that is what yuh meant).

Offline Midknight

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2007, 01:46:04 PM »
depends on the exclusivity of the hall of fame..

If is only for men like Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Psuskas, Eusebio, Zidane and Di Stefano then no he cant make the list... He doesn't have enough accolades to merit inclusion, and he was never THE BEST footballer on the planet...

But if I see men there like Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Romario, Weah, Baggio, Zico, Francescoli, Van Basten, Henry then most definitely he should be there..

Ronaldo was three time player of the year...Ronaldinho two-time...Weah African, European and World Player of the Year same year...Zico was also player of the year.  This title largely recognizes the player as the best in the world...so on that note alone they are more distinguishable than Yorke.

As a matter of fact, let me throw something out into this debate..

Based on footballing achievements, Dwight Yorke should make a Hall of Fame before David Beckham!

what allyuh tink bout that?

Never happen...Beckham has achieved more, and if he leads LA Galaxy to a title that would overshadow Yorke even more.

They might be lucky if he lead them to the playoffs...
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2007, 01:48:07 PM »
well... I am looking at it contextually... and thats why i said based on footballing achievements..

off the top of my head, Becks win de same titles as Yorke at Man Utd right??

Then he went Real Madrid and in 5 years won absolutely nothing apart from that last league title.. Which, when you play for a club like Real Madrid, is a failure of monstrous proportions..

Also, not many will look back fondly on Beckham's achievements with the English national team apart from that great free kick goal against Greece in the qualifiers.

Now, Yorke had a great era at Man United.. Then his career took a downward turn at Blackburn/Birmingham/Sydney...  But then he resurrected his career to lead the smallest ever nation to a World Cup final (Not even George Weah can boast this), and even more amazingly transformed to a midfielder.. Not forgetting, he was statistically one of the best midfielders for the World Cup group stages..

On top of that he returns to a Sunderland team at the bottom of the league to lead them to a Championship.. And back in the premiership now giving creditable performances at the age of 36..

I just think Yorke's story football wise makes for better reading.. And in saying so, I'm not trying to exhibit bling patriotism..    :D



Becks won more titles than Yorke at Man U.

Becks was a Fifa player of the year finalist (top 3) twice and UEFA club player of the year  twice.

He's also a UN Ambassador and has his own football development academies in the US & UK.

Don't play down winning the Spanish La Liga title- despite being poor by Madrid standards to have only won 1 in 5 years, it's still a huge achievement on anyone's resume.

That part about not many would look fondly on Beck's England career...not only is that overly subjective, but most likely very very inaccurate. From What I understand, Becks is loved as the England skipper. The public was begging back for him after he got dropped, and they got reminded what an asset he was to the team. He's regarded as a great leader. Not to mention that b4 this last WC campaign, Dwight's representation of T&T in nat'l colours was way way way less than stellar...

Sad to say it, but your reasoning is based on patriotism & sentiment, not pure achievement....bringing Sunderland up to the EPL- emotion...Huge achievement yes....but Yorke didn't do it by himself, and he wasn't playing 90 mins of every game in the Championship...Taking the smallest nation to the W.C.- sentiment. Don't get me wrong a huge achievement on T&T's and on Yorke's part, but again Yorke didn't do it by himself- putting so much of it on his shoulders is merely one for the storybooks.

You realize that in the same breath that you down played the Spanish la liga title as a failure, you hailed Sunderland's winning of the Coca Cola championship a huge achievement- sure you were "putting it in context"...fair enough, but there's another term for that, it's called sentiment my friend....sentiment...Picture Dwight Yorke winning a title with Madrid....and Becks playing with Sunderland in the Championship.... that might change your view.

Yorke is great, but in terms of pure footballing achievement- he hasn't achieved more than Beckham....at least not yet.   

Well said, we could put anything in context....small black boy from Tobago makes it big and conquers one of football's biggest stages...make for a nice heart-tugging story.  To be sure Yorke overcame much more than Becks, but that doesn't mean he has achieved more from a purely footballing standpoint.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2007, 01:50:17 PM »

They might be lucky if he lead them to the playoffs...
Not going to happen this year...maybe not even next year.  Parity is such in MLS though that one or two key players is all you need (with as solid 'D') to win.  Get a couple breaks your way and next thing you know title is yours.  This would be on par with what Yorke did with Sydney FC (if it were to come to pass)...then look at everything else that Beckham has achieved and he clearly outdistances Yorke.

Offline dinho

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2007, 02:21:36 PM »
well... I am looking at it contextually... and thats why i said based on footballing achievements..

off the top of my head, Becks win de same titles as Yorke at Man Utd right??

Then he went Real Madrid and in 5 years won absolutely nothing apart from that last league title.. Which, when you play for a club like Real Madrid, is a failure of monstrous proportions..

Also, not many will look back fondly on Beckham's achievements with the English national team apart from that great free kick goal against Greece in the qualifiers.

Now, Yorke had a great era at Man United.. Then his career took a downward turn at Blackburn/Birmingham/Sydney...  But then he resurrected his career to lead the smallest ever nation to a World Cup final (Not even George Weah can boast this), and even more amazingly transformed to a midfielder.. Not forgetting, he was statistically one of the best midfielders for the World Cup group stages..

On top of that he returns to a Sunderland team at the bottom of the league to lead them to a Championship.. And back in the premiership now giving creditable performances at the age of 36..

I just think Yorke's story football wise makes for better reading.. And in saying so, I'm not trying to exhibit bling patriotism..    :D



Becks won more titles than Yorke at Man U.

Becks was a Fifa player of the year finalist (top 3) twice and UEFA club player of the year  twice.

He's also a UN Ambassador and has his own football development academies in the US & UK.

Don't play down winning the Spanish La Liga title- despite being poor by Madrid standards to have only won 1 in 5 years, it's still a huge achievement on anyone's resume.

That part about not many would look fondly on Beck's England career...not only is that overly subjective, but most likely very very inaccurate. From What I understand, Becks is loved as the England skipper. The public was begging back for him after he got dropped, and they got reminded what an asset he was to the team. He's regarded as a great leader. Not to mention that b4 this last WC campaign, Dwight's representation of T&T in nat'l colours was way way way less than stellar...

Sad to say it, but your reasoning is based on patriotism & sentiment, not pure achievement....bringing Sunderland up to the EPL- emotion...Huge achievement yes....but Yorke didn't do it by himself, and he wasn't playing 90 mins of every game in the Championship...Taking the smallest nation to the W.C.- sentiment. Don't get me wrong a huge achievement on T&T's and on Yorke's part, but again Yorke didn't do it by himself- putting so much of it on his shoulders is merely one for the storybooks.

You realize that in the same breath that you down played the Spanish la liga title as a failure, you hailed Sunderland's winning of the Coca Cola championship a huge achievement- sure you were "putting it in context"...fair enough, but there's another term for that, it's called sentiment my friend....sentiment...Picture Dwight Yorke winning a title with Madrid....and Becks playing with Sunderland in the Championship.... that might change your view.

Yorke is great, but in terms of pure footballing achievement- he hasn't achieved more than Beckham....at least not yet.   

Well said and you make some good points..

But if we going to consider international ball in Hall of Fame reckoning then it absolutely has to be contextual..

We cant knock Francescoli or Weah for not winning a World Cup cause they wasn't blessed with talent around them. But yuh have to knock Beckham for not winning a World Cup because, in the eyes of the world, and in the eyes of their own fans, England under-achieved during his tenure..

The part about looking back on Becks career.. Can he really be rated as one of the best footballers England has ever produced? What has he achieved?  Besides that Greece game, how many telling performances has he produced?

With respect to his FIFA player of the year nominations; how many non-european players were on that list? (a whole next argument but still thought i'd discredit that a lil bit). I just think, 2006-07 apart, beckham's footballing achievements are at the very least, questionable.. Thats my personal opinion and i can agree to disagree.

I will concede that my sentiments about Yorke's achievements were probably tainted with some "bling",  but at the same time, if we talking about footballing achievements, please lets IGNORE ALL THE SUNDRIES...

UN Ambassador?? Academies?? Sells many jerseys??  All inapplicable..



         

Offline kicker

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2007, 03:21:10 PM »

I will concede that my sentiments about Yorke's achievements were probably tainted with some "bling",  but at the same time, if we talking about footballing achievements, please lets IGNORE ALL THE SUNDRIES...

UN Ambassador?? Academies?? Sells many jerseys??  All inapplicable..


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Offline freakazoid

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2007, 03:29:52 PM »
Starting in our own backyard (and please, leave bling patriotism and sentimentality aside), does Yorke belong among the greatest footballers ever?
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All yuh no patriotism eh, after all, de man is from TnT, but no  sentimentality either eh  :rotfl: .. just ignore the fact that this is ah forum that have 90 pct Trinbagonians posting and we speaking about TnT most sucessfull footballer ever but ah still doh want any DAMN PATRIOTISM OR SENTIMENTALITY EH !!.......good, now leh meh hear all yuh non bias answers please ...

 I eh lying all yuh reel good oui  :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2007, 04:17:14 PM »

I will concede that my sentiments about Yorke's achievements were probably tainted with some "bling",  but at the same time, if we talking about footballing achievements, please lets IGNORE ALL THE SUNDRIES...

UN Ambassador?? Academies?? Sells many jerseys??  All inapplicable..


 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: allyuh eh go let meh boy Bakes live down that typo at all...wickedness....


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Offline JDB

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2007, 06:10:59 AM »
Well said and you make some good points..

But if we going to consider international ball in Hall of Fame reckoning then it absolutely has to be contextual..

We cant knock Francescoli or Weah for not winning a World Cup cause they wasn't blessed with talent around them. But yuh have to knock Beckham for not winning a World Cup because, in the eyes of the world, and in the eyes of their own fans, England under-achieved during his tenure..

The part about looking back on Becks career.. Can he really be rated as one of the best footballers England has ever produced? What has he achieved?  Besides that Greece game, how many telling performances has he produced?

With respect to his FIFA player of the year nominations; how many non-european players were on that list? (a whole next argument but still thought i'd discredit that a lil bit). I just think, 2006-07 apart, beckham's footballing achievements are at the very least, questionable.. Thats my personal opinion and i can agree to disagree.

I will concede that my sentiments about Yorke's achievements were probably tainted with some "bling",  but at the same time, if we talking about footballing achievements, please lets IGNORE ALL THE SUNDRIES...

UN Ambassador?? Academies?? Sells many jerseys??  All inapplicable..

Omar your reasoning is confusing me.

First. If you could ignore 2006-2007 for Beckham then you could just as easily ignore 2005-2006 for Yorke, thus no WC qualification and WC performance on Yorke's resume. The players either achieved some thing or did not. You cannot selectively disregard an achievement to make your argument.

Second. If you take away Beckham's Spanish title, you still have all of his Championship contributions in England. if you consider these to be "questionable" then how do you value Yorke's contribution to these same (albeit fewer) Championships. If you take away Yorke's titles with United then his achievements are winning big seven and Intercol, the Championship with Sunderland, the A-league and qualifying for a WC.

Don't get me wrong I believe that Yorke will qualify for a HoF, if there is one in existence, but in all likelihood Beckham will as well so I don't agree with that reasoning.
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Offline kicker

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2007, 07:31:54 AM »
Well said and you make some good points..

But if we going to consider international ball in Hall of Fame reckoning then it absolutely has to be contextual..

We cant knock Francescoli or Weah for not winning a World Cup cause they wasn't blessed with talent around them. But yuh have to knock Beckham for not winning a World Cup because, in the eyes of the world, and in the eyes of their own fans, England under-achieved during his tenure..

The part about looking back on Becks career.. Can he really be rated as one of the best footballers England has ever produced? What has he achieved?  Besides that Greece game, how many telling performances has he produced?

With respect to his FIFA player of the year nominations; how many non-european players were on that list? (a whole next argument but still thought i'd discredit that a lil bit). I just think, 2006-07 apart, beckham's footballing achievements are at the very least, questionable.. Thats my personal opinion and i can agree to disagree.

I will concede that my sentiments about Yorke's achievements were probably tainted with some "bling",  but at the same time, if we talking about footballing achievements, please lets IGNORE ALL THE SUNDRIES...

UN Ambassador?? Academies?? Sells many jerseys??  All inapplicable..

Omar your reasoning is confusing me.

First. If you could ignore 2006-2007 for Beckham then you could just as easily ignore 2005-2006 for Yorke, thus no WC qualification and WC performance on Yorke's resume. The players either achieved some thing or did not. You cannot selectively disregard an achievement to make your argument.

Second. If you take away Beckham's Spanish title, you still have all of his Championship contributions in England. if you consider these to be "questionable" then how do you value Yorke's contribution to these same (albeit fewer) Championships. If you take away Yorke's titles with United then his achievements are winning big seven and Intercol, the Championship with Sunderland, the A-league and qualifying for a WC.

Don't get me wrong I believe that Yorke will qualify for a HoF, if there is one in existence, but in all likelihood Beckham will as well so I don't agree with that reasoning.

It's called blingd patriotism  ;D
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Offline ballpiyong

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2007, 10:02:10 AM »
I doh know if internationally but certainly regionally and definitely locally. Question does anyone know if our beloved TTFF has an award of this kind never heard of this?????

Offline dinho

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2007, 11:41:47 AM »
i'm posting this article here for all you who argue that Beckham's footballing achievements merit him a place in a Hall of Fame..  Seems like the great bobby charlton agrees he's an underachiever...

Look Bobby Charlton enforcing the point that Beckham largely underachieved in football...


Charlton criticizes Beckham's lifetsyle

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/7196642

MANCHESTER, England (AP) - David Beckham should be playing in England - not the United States - and his celebrity lifestyle has damaged his career, according to former England and Manchester United great Bobby Charlton.

"(Beckham) was a really, really great footballer - a marvelous talent," Charlton said Thursday at the launch of his autobiography. "I saw it when he was about 10 and he has a terrific talent, but his lifestyle has gone in a different direction."

While United scouts thought Beckham lacked strength, the youngster dazzled Charlton at his Manchester soccer school.

"He wanted to be a footballer as much as any young player I've ever seen and I wonder sometimes if he thinks what's happening (now)," Charlton said at Old Trafford.

Beckham joined United in 1989 at age 14, debuted in 1992, and won six Premier League titles and a Champions League medal before transferring in 2003 to Real Madrid. He joined the Los Angeles Galaxy this summer on a five-year, US$32.5 million contract.

"He's in America, he's committed to making millions of pounds," Charlton said. "I would rather he was playing here in England than anywhere else, that's for sure."

Regardless, Charlton expects the former England captain to play three more matches for his country and reach 100 appearances, although that would still be six short of Charlton's total.

Beckham's profile rocketed when he married former Spice Girl singer Victoria Adams in 1999, shortly after winning the treble with United.

In his autobiography "My Manchester United Years," Charlton, 69, wrote that he believed fame outside of soccer led to a decline in Beckham's game.

"Beckham thought that a celebrity lifestyle, being drawn increasingly into the showbiz world of his wife Victoria, was compatible with the regime of a professional footballer. His manager (Alex Ferguson) did not," Charlton wrote.

Beckham's time in Spain, which yielded just one league title, ended with a move to the U.S.,
where "Posh and Becks" are close to celebrity friends Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes.

Beckham rejected an "excellent, generous offer" to stay at Old Trafford in 2003, said Charlton, who won the World Cup in 1966 with England.

"The manager had serious problems with the Beckhams' lifestyle, finding it unhelpful, to say the least," Charlton added. "(But) there was never any question of the player being driven out of United. That was the impression given by Beckham and his people - and it was quite wrong."

Charlton, who scored 198 goals for the Red Devils between 1954 and 1973, acknowledged Beckham's contribution to Man United in his book. But he gave special praise to Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs, who remain central to United's title defense this season.
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While critical of Beckham's move to the U.S., Charlton has no concerns for now about American owner Malcolm Glazer, who bought United in 2005.

The Glazer family has denied recent reports of potential billion-dollar takeover bids from China and United Arab Emirates.

"Someone has to run the football club, someone has to be the owner, and if wasn't the Glazers it would be someone else," said Charlton.

"When they come across now they never give me any reason to think they had any ulterior motives for actually buying the club. I think they are as big a supporter as anybody really," Charlton said. "But who knows in the future."

As a player, Charlton helped United rebuild after he survived the 1958 Munich air crash that killed eight teammates. Charlton scored twice in the 4-1 win over Benfica in the 1968 European Cup final as United became the first English winner of the title.
         

Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2007, 12:25:25 PM »
Charlton is a ManU hack from longtime...of course he'll think that Beckham underachieved.  Many Englishmen expected more of the current generation of English internationals and Beckham for various reasons, some with more merit than others...has borne the brunt of that criticism. 

Doesn't undermine the fact that he'd likely make any HoF list over Dwight Yorke.

Offline JDB

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2007, 12:30:04 PM »
i'm posting this article here for all you who argue that Beckham's footballing achievements merit him a place in a Hall of Fame..  Seems like the great bobby charlton agrees he's an underachiever...

Look Bobby Charlton enforcing the point that Beckham largely underachieved in football...

Yuh grasping at straws now.

Bobby Charlton is very respected but that is still just an opinion. The fact is if a HoF induction is based on achievements, then Beckham will be in it because he has achieved. Whether he could have achieved more or not is subject to interpretation.

Whether someone maximizes talent or has a top level career for 20 years is not an indication of whther they deserve to be in a HoF. George Best ended his top flight competitive career at age 26, clearly underachieved, does that mean he will not be in a HoF.

Similarly for Maradona, one WC, a couple Serie A titles but could have been much, much more, so I guess it is no HoF for him either.

Also what is this talk about Beckham winning only one La Liga title in his time at Madrid?

It is a team game, and Madrid as a team failed. How does Beckham's career get tainted by that? I guess Zidane underachived for the past four years too? He was in the same madrid team. Or maybe he overachieved and beckham was purging him and the whole madrid side.

The funniest thing about this "Beckham the underachiever" talk is that for years everybody has been saying that he is over-rated and that he made the most of a very limited skill set, including th eability to cross the ball and pass the ball long. Now he is suddenly a talented player who pissed it all away.
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Offline kicker

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2007, 12:31:08 PM »
i'm posting this article here for all you who argue that Beckham's footballing achievements merit him a place in a Hall of Fame..  Seems like the great bobby charlton agrees he's an underachiever...


Weak....SO SO SO WEAK!!!


Firstly yuh chainin' up talk and putting words in people's mouth.....Nobody went out on a limb talking about Becks achievements merit him a place in the Hall of Fame....Everything said about Becks was in response to your contention that Dwight Yorke is more deserved of Hall of Fame selection than Becks. The discussion was based on a comparison of Dwight Yorke's footballing achievements to Beckham's.

Secondly, the article BARELY IF AT ALL discredits any of his actual achievements. It doesn't even really speak to them. It's basically criticizing his decision to play in the U.S. and to get mixed up in the celebrity lifestyle, saying that he could have achieved more had he not made some of his decisions. Saying that he is a an "underachiever" (which is a relative term), and arguing your point, are two totally and absolutely different kettles of fish....One speaks to the sufficiency of his actual achievements, and the other speaks to what he could have achieved relative to his potential.

Thirdly just because Bobby Charlton barkin' means what?!?! steeeupps...His is just one of millions of opinions that go all different ways, and just because he was a great player doesn't mean his opinion of Becks' achievements weighs any heavier than anyone elses...


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Offline palos

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2007, 12:36:20 PM »
Peeps SERIOUSLY comparin Dwight to Ronaldo? LOL!

Mus be de one playin fuh Man Utd.
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Offline dinho

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2007, 12:54:14 PM »
i'm posting this article here for all you who argue that Beckham's footballing achievements merit him a place in a Hall of Fame..  Seems like the great bobby charlton agrees he's an underachiever...

Look Bobby Charlton enforcing the point that Beckham largely underachieved in football...

Yuh grasping at straws now.

Bobby Charlton is very respected but that is still just an opinion. The fact is if a HoF induction is based on achievements, then Beckham will be in it because he has achieved. Whether he could have achieved more or not is subject to interpretation.

Whether someone maximizes talent or has a top level career for 20 years is not an indication of whther they deserve to be in a HoF. George Best ended his top flight competitive career at age 26, clearly underachieved, does that mean he will not be in a HoF.

Similarly for Maradona, one WC, a couple Serie A titles but could have been much, much more, so I guess it is no HoF for him either.

Also what is this talk about Beckham winning only one La Liga title in his time at Madrid?

It is a team game, and Madrid as a team failed. How does Beckham's career get tainted by that? I guess Zidane underachived for the past four years too? He was in the same madrid team. Or maybe he overachieved and beckham was purging him and the whole madrid side.

The funniest thing about this "Beckham the underachiever" talk is that for years everybody has been saying that he is over-rated and that he made the most of a very limited skill set, including th eability to cross the ball and pass the ball long. Now he is suddenly a talented player who pissed it all away.

JDB you know whats the simple difference between Zidane, George Best, Maradona and David Beckham??

The simple difference is that at one or more points in their careers they were unanimously recognized as the best players in the game.. All of them men yuh call there could turn a game on its head, and take control of a match.. They could singlehandedly dismantle a side, and they were exceptional talents.  Not Beckham!

In no circles has Beckham ever been regarded as the best player in the world; or even so much in his own national team... if anything, if you were to take a poll of worldwide opinion at the peak of his career, he'd probably scrape into the top 10.. that is reality...

At the end of the day, who are any of us to say what criteria determines entry to a hall of fame?? The fact is other factors will come into play... The worldwide fame and international presence he has brought to the game would not go unnoticed..

Fact is he's one of the most famous players to ever play the sport..

But his contribution to the game in purely footballing terms ain't nothing to write home about.
         

Offline JDB

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2007, 01:02:14 PM »
I done pardner.

The man start on five Championship winning sides in England, one in Spain, two FA Cup winning sides, a championship-winning side and almost 100 England caps but his contribution was nothing to talk about, he just fool real people.

Yorke on the other hand, do more.
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Offline dinho

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2007, 01:06:14 PM »
i'm posting this article here for all you who argue that Beckham's footballing achievements merit him a place in a Hall of Fame..  Seems like the great bobby charlton agrees he's an underachiever...


Weak....SO SO SO WEAK!!!


Firstly yuh chainin' up talk and putting words in people's mouth.....Nobody went out on a limb talking about Becks achievements merit him a place in the Hall of Fame....Everything said about Becks was in response to your contention that Dwight Yorke is more deserved of Hall of Fame selection than Becks. The discussion was based on a comparison of Dwight Yorke's footballing achievements to Beckham's.

When both Dwight and Beckham sit down in dey rocking chair and reflect on their achievements in football, who you think go have de bigger smile on dey face?

Secondly, the article BARELY IF AT ALL discredits any of his actual achievements. It doesn't even really speak to them. It's basically criticizing his decision to play in the U.S. and to get mixed up in the celebrity lifestyle, saying that he could have achieved more had he not made some of his decisions. Saying that he is a an "underachiever" (which is a relative term), and arguing your point, are two totally and absolutely different kettles of fish....One speaks to the sufficiency of his actual achievements, and the other speaks to what he could have achieved relative to his potential.

if de man decide to be a pop star instead of a footballer, and his game suffered as a result, that counts as underachievement in footballing terms.

Thirdly just because Bobby Charlton barkin' means what?!?! steeeupps...His is just one of millions of opinions that go all different ways, and just because he was a great player doesn't mean his opinion of Becks' achievements weighs any heavier than anyone elses...

One of millions of opinions, but i'd bet my house and car that his opinion weighs plenty heavier than yours or mine.



Wha ah go say yes, is just my opinion..
         

Offline dinho

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2007, 01:08:57 PM »
I done pardner.

The man start on five Championship winning sides in England, one in Spain, two FA Cup winning sides, a championship-winning side and almost 100 England caps but his contribution was nothing to talk about, he just fool real people.

Yorke on the other hand, do more.

i never say he ent do nothing but i was trying to look at his achievements aside Yorke's in contextual terms, but i dont think men really ketching where i coming from so best i leggo this talk...

         

Offline kicker

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2007, 02:04:20 PM »
i'm posting this article here for all you who argue that Beckham's footballing achievements merit him a place in a Hall of Fame..  Seems like the great bobby charlton agrees he's an underachiever...


Weak....SO SO SO WEAK!!!


Firstly yuh chainin' up talk and putting words in people's mouth.....Nobody went out on a limb talking about Becks achievements merit him a place in the Hall of Fame....Everything said about Becks was in response to your contention that Dwight Yorke is more deserved of Hall of Fame selection than Becks. The discussion was based on a comparison of Dwight Yorke's footballing achievements to Beckham's.

When both Dwight and Beckham sit down in dey rocking chair and reflect on their achievements in football, who you think go have de bigger smile on dey face?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Dwight smile will always be bigger than Beckham's even if Dwight was homeless.... ;D

The point though was that yuh spin the talk. This was not a David Beckham spotlight- it was a comparison of Becks' and Yorkie's achievements.


Secondly, the article BARELY IF AT ALL discredits any of his actual achievements. It doesn't even really speak to them. It's basically criticizing his decision to play in the U.S. and to get mixed up in the celebrity lifestyle, saying that he could have achieved more had he not made some of his decisions. Saying that he is a an "underachiever" (which is a relative term), and arguing your point, are two totally and absolutely different kettles of fish....One speaks to the sufficiency of his actual achievements, and the other speaks to what he could have achieved relative to his potential.

if de man decide to be a pop star instead of a footballer, and his game suffered as a result, that counts as underachievement in footballing terms.

Geez....once again, not my point.... speaking of whether or not he underachieved is way different to discrediting his actual individual achievements. Underachievement is relative. An actual achievement is absolute.


Thirdly just because Bobby Charlton barkin' means what?!?! steeeupps...His is just one of millions of opinions that go all different ways, and just because he was a great player doesn't mean his opinion of Becks' achievements weighs any heavier than anyone elses...

One of millions of opinions, but i'd bet my house and car that his opinion weighs plenty heavier than yours or mine.

Not on this issue, and not on this msg board. His expertise is in football. Not on life decisions- and that is what he's talking about, and again that was not the point as he barely commented on Becks' actual footballing achievements



Wha ah go say yes, is just my opinion..


Yeah but yuh mixing up two different arguments....  :beermug:

I totally know where you are coming from, and I would be the first one to agree that Becks' stardom in football is generated by alot more than his actual ability to play.....but your original point was that Dwight Yorke is more fitting of a Hall of Fame selection than Beckham- and up to now what you have put forth to substantiate that is very very very weak....Now you spin it around to say that Becks is not as great a footballer as many make him out to be- age old discussion/argument that is besides your original point...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 02:32:13 PM by kicker »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2007, 04:09:05 PM »

.....but your original point was that Dwight Yorke is more fitting of a Hall of Fame selection than Beckham- and up to now what you have put forth to substantiate that is very very very weak....Now you spin it around to say that Becks is not as great a footballer as many make him out to be- age old discussion/argument that is besides your original point...

Otherwise known as a red herring...

Offline kicker

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2007, 04:33:02 PM »

.....but your original point was that Dwight Yorke is more fitting of a Hall of Fame selection than Beckham- and up to now what you have put forth to substantiate that is very very very weak....Now you spin it around to say that Becks is not as great a footballer as many make him out to be- age old discussion/argument that is besides your original point...

Otherwise known as a red herring...

Waaaay....ent hear that term since primary school grammar class....but yes- very fitting
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2007, 06:17:18 PM »

.....but your original point was that Dwight Yorke is more fitting of a Hall of Fame selection than Beckham- and up to now what you have put forth to substantiate that is very very very weak....Now you spin it around to say that Becks is not as great a footballer as many make him out to be- age old discussion/argument that is besides your original point...

Otherwise known as a red herring...

Waaaay....ent hear that term since primary school grammar class....but yes- very fitting

Yuh sure is 'red herring' yuh teacher was talking about and not smoke herring?   :D

Offline dinho

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2007, 06:34:27 PM »

.....but your original point was that Dwight Yorke is more fitting of a Hall of Fame selection than Beckham- and up to now what you have put forth to substantiate that is very very very weak....Now you spin it around to say that Becks is not as great a footballer as many make him out to be- age old discussion/argument that is besides your original point...

Otherwise known as a red herring...

Waaaay....ent hear that term since primary school grammar class....but yes- very fitting

Yuh sure is 'red herring' yuh teacher was talking about and not smoke herring?   :D



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kicker, bns..

allyuh done??
         

Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2007, 09:58:30 PM »

.....but your original point was that Dwight Yorke is more fitting of a Hall of Fame selection than Beckham- and up to now what you have put forth to substantiate that is very very very weak....Now you spin it around to say that Becks is not as great a footballer as many make him out to be- age old discussion/argument that is besides your original point...

Otherwise known as a red herring...

Waaaay....ent hear that term since primary school grammar class....but yes- very fitting

Yuh sure is 'red herring' yuh teacher was talking about and not smoke herring?   :D



:waiting:

kicker, bns..

allyuh done??

bling bling niccuh...




 :rotfl:

Offline QWT

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2007, 12:00:40 AM »
Going back to what was mentioned before about players who have never won a World Cup; some great players have never even played in a World Cup.

The first two that come to my mind are George Best and Ryan Giggs, and I think both of them have strong cases for inclusion in any HOF.

Dwight also has a strong case and I think he does belong there.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Does Dwight Yorke belong in the Hall of Fame
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2007, 11:21:07 AM »
Going back to what was mentioned before about players who have never won a World Cup; some great players have never even played in a World Cup.

The first two that come to my mind are George Best and Ryan Giggs, and I think both of them have strong cases for inclusion in any HOF.

Dwight also has a strong case and I think he does belong there.

Best is universally included in almost any list of all-time greats....I could definitely see him getting in with a full police escort.  Giggsy might get in with ah Ford Escort.