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Offline Football supporter

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2007, 05:37:20 AM »
Just a reminder to everyone that FPATT is not bringing this case againstT&TFF.  However, of course FPATT has an interest in its outcome, as well as the belief that there needs to be total transparency in football.

However, with regards to some of the comments here, my PERSONAL view is that putting Trinidad & Tobago football into the global media is essential. I think that this whole issue needs to be exposed because Jack Warner is a FIFA vice president and has a great deal of power in world football. This is not a witch hunt by the players, but some of the events leading up to this case have been unworthy of a man in Mr Warners position.

Blacklisting international footballers and damaging their careers and being prepared to purposely weaken your own national team out of spite?
Calling professional footballers blackmailers, greedy, and holding TTFF to ransom?
Producing TWO (possibly) fraudulent sets of accounts (and presenting them to a Govt minister)?
Issuing completely innaccurate press statements to slur the names of those who only persued what they were promised?

Are these the actions you are prepared to accept from your football administrators?

Some people seem to be thinking that the players are the agressors.  But the players never wanted to go to court. If this event brings about the bankruptcy of T&TFF, you have to ask yourself "where did the money go?" If it brings about the removal of this administration, it is their own actions that caused it. If Jack Warner is forced to resign, thats his fault. None of this would have happened if they had paid the bonuses (or even made a half decent offer).

So who was really being greedy, Mr Warner? Who was blackmailing who?

I don't think it will lead to the general public considering Trinidad as a banana republic, but it may well force people in other countries to consider how their organisations are being run.

As for putting a stop to football programmes and losing people their jobs, well if T&TFF are doing their job properly, the funds will still be there. But if millions of T&T dollars have disappeared, doesn't that need to addressed and recovered so that football can further benefit?

I don't know enough about legal terms, but words like embezzlement, money laundering, fraud, false accounting come to mind. I would imagine that once the players case is over there will be further investigations and court cases. I would imagine if this happened in England, certain people would be looking at lengthy prison sentences. I'm not sure about T&T, so that may not be the case.

Please remember, this is my personal view and not necessarily the view of FPATT.

Offline Sam

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2007, 06:02:35 AM »
If the TTFF back down it will cause an upraised by the other players so I take it our blacklisted players will have to fight till de end. Do you think the TTFF giving up and then the other players will fell they could do the same.

FPATT' operating like the TTFF, is years now they barking and to date they cant even get off the ground. Many of our foreign players have alot of connection and they are also role models to many and you trying to tell me they cant organize anything solid.... or sell some auction products, build a website, throw fete after fete... etc etc....

I know its not easy, but with 16 plus players I am sure it wouldn't be as hard as if one man had to do everything. Unity is strength. The TTFF probably laughing now as they are paintently awaiting to see what the blacklisted players is up to. Some cant even gain a contract or play regular football....

FPATT' is a great idea and I will always support them, but I believe they need a strong minded man, a fast thinker, calm, smart and a no bullshiter to run the show... not a peroson who you hear from once every 2 months if you lucky and that person dont even play football again... you guys need to link up with Flex, he is full of great ideas.....

You guys need to finally get off your ass and start walking on your feet.....
« Last Edit: September 15, 2007, 06:17:31 AM by Sam »
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Offline dreamer

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2007, 06:21:27 AM »
Good work fellahs. Perseverance does always come tru good.
Don't you think fuh a minute that Jackula want to be nice now. Is because of the courts that the truth is being revealed.

http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=24764.0
For all those who late, have a nice read....
KSM, Shaka, Sancho, Mr Townley, and Mr Lawsuit Court Judge Sah, if allyuh wah some facts and evidence  to ress dong on Jackula kyakahole,.. fix up. Ah done talk >:(
Supportin' de Warriors right tru.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2007, 10:27:07 AM »
Fish in case yuh e know Hilman was found guilty in d US 4 fraud in d airport so TNT eh have no credibility ah ready. So let the chips fall where they may. Everbody know FIFA is a mafia and Jack is the reallllllllllllll Godfather.

Somebody watch SPALK leh we see if Anil good spin dis
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bakes

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2007, 03:02:46 PM »
FPATT be carefull that whilst you are looking to fix the injustice dealt to the players at the same time you guys not doing serious damage to Trinidad and Tobago credibility as a nation.
This big press or media coverage you guys looking for might be all well and good to enlighten the world about the going ons in TTFF and Jack Warner's dynasty but that doh win court cases.
What is the objective?
To make sure the players get what they were promised?
Or is it also in the plan to bring down TTFF and Jack Warner?
Whilst we all would like to have the latter done, remember TT is a small community by global standards and a lot of hard working innocent people will also be affected.
If the target of getting Jack out of our football is acheived an immediate cash flow problem will kick in and the Government will not be able to fill the gap not because they don't want to but because of how Government works.
A lot of people from managers to cleaners will in end up in CEPEP.
Plenty of the ongoing football programs going to come to a halt , because coachs and other staff not going to be paid etc.
I might be going over the top with a doomsday scenario but people better be seriously planning an alternative to what exists if the football is to continue to rise and not fall off.

Whilst all this going on in the glare of the world media descriptions like banana republic and corrupt ridden society bound to surface, that does nothing to the already badly beaten self esteem of nationals at home and abroad even if the description might be true.

I suggest that FPATT makes sure that the media releases are even handed and not sensationalist so that it could be understood that this whole mess is because of a handfull of greedy people and not an entire organisation and by extension nation.

Nonsense.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2007, 03:06:34 PM »
If the TTFF back down it will cause an upraised by the other players so I take it our blacklisted players will have to fight till de end. Do you think the TTFF giving up and then the other players will fell they could do the same.

FPATT' operating like the TTFF, is years now they barking and to date they cant even get off the ground. Many of our foreign players have alot of connection and they are also role models to many and you trying to tell me they cant organize anything solid.... or sell some auction products, build a website, throw fete after fete... etc etc....

I know its not easy, but with 16 plus players I am sure it wouldn't be as hard as if one man had to do everything. Unity is strength. The TTFF probably laughing now as they are paintently awaiting to see what the blacklisted players is up to. Some cant even gain a contract or play regular football....

FPATT' is a great idea and I will always support them, but I believe they need a strong minded man, a fast thinker, calm, smart and a no bullshiter to run the show... not a peroson who you hear from once every 2 months if you lucky and that person dont even play football again... you guys need to link up with Flex, he is full of great ideas.....

You guys need to finally get off your ass and start walking on your feet.....

Do you have any idea what FPATT is doing behind the scenes... or is it your assumption that the sum of their activities is what you read here on the net.

Offline kentsoulman

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2007, 03:37:51 PM »
When I read this article, I couldn't wait to read the posts on this site. Surely this proves in black and white in a government document what you have all been saying ..... that there is corruption in the T&T football administration.

I've read thousands of posts from people asking why no one is doing anything about this and how its been going on for 20 years.

This should herald the beginning of the end for Warner, Camps, Roden etc. This article is the biggest news concerning football in trinidad and everyone should be realising that these people can be made to answer for their wrongdoings.

Therefore, I can't understand the attitude of people like Sam and Fishs.

Yes, this will bring about change, and perhaps there will be a period of confusion. But you can't bring down a dictatorship without facing difficult choices. But you should be spending time thinking about who should replace these guys. Lincoln Phillips? Shaka Hislop? Dexter Skeene?

As for FPATT, as I seem to recall, they are constantly asking people on this site for help. They are all volunteers and I don't think any of them get paid.

The real questions that Sam and Fishs should be asking is : FPATT, how can I help?

Offline g

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2007, 04:40:34 PM »
Fish in case yuh e know Hilman was found guilty in d US 4 fraud in d airport so TNT eh have no credibility ah ready. So let the chips fall where they may. Everbody know FIFA is a mafia and Jack is the reallllllllllllll Godfather.

Somebody watch SPALK leh we see if Anil good spin dis

Ah waiting for SPALK on the radio Monday. he always sidestepping d football issue, everybody know he is a jackula lover. I sure d man with the biggest mouth in trinidad and tobago will sidestep this again. Wasteful!!

When I read this article, I couldn't wait to read the posts on this site. Surely this proves in black and white in a government document what you have all been saying ..... that there is corruption in the T&T football administration.

I've read thousands of posts from people asking why no one is doing anything about this and how its been going on for 20 years.

This should herald the beginning of the end for Warner, Camps, Roden etc. This article is the biggest news concerning football in trinidad and everyone should be realising that these people can be made to answer for their wrongdoings.

Therefore, I can't understand the attitude of people like Sam and Fishs.

Yes, this will bring about change, and perhaps there will be a period of confusion. But you can't bring down a dictatorship without facing difficult choices. But you should be spending time thinking about who should replace these guys. Lincoln Phillips? Shaka Hislop? Dexter Skeene?

As for FPATT, as I seem to recall, they are constantly asking people on this site for help. They are all volunteers and I don't think any of them get paid.

The real questions that Sam and Fishs should be asking is : FPATT, how can I help?

 :applause: :applause:
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Offline Dutty

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2007, 05:19:26 PM »
This article is the biggest news concerning football in trinidad and everyone should be realising that these people can be made to answer for their wrongdoings.

Therefore, I can't understand the attitude of people like Sam and Fishs.

The real questions that Sam and Fishs should be asking is : FPATT, how can I help?

Frankly, I think the 'ticket or leave it' scandal was much bigger as the shenanigans were revealed in a time period when everyone was concentrating on world cup football.
Moreover Jack's fiscal antics were  broadcast & written about globally plus the Andrew Jennings expose book was fresh off the presses. 
The government of T&T couldnt afford the level of media exposure the country recieved in 2006 if they had to pay for it

After all that negative press, the end result is zero. The status quo remains and the vampire continues to rule the crypt

I might disagree with fishs about 'how we go look', but I can see his viewpoint. Ater this great 'coup' that everyone is expecting. Will anything actually change?

I can also see what Sam is saying, but he has probably become a skeptic like myself out of raw frustration watching the whole process move with the speed of a glacier.
 Everyone wants the same thing.
The players should recieve the monies owed. we would love to see T&T players make it to 2010 and most important, The thieves should be ousted from TTFF.


Perhaps we are expecting too much too quickly from FPATT
« Last Edit: September 15, 2007, 05:53:21 PM by Dutty »
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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2007, 05:21:43 PM »
Oh, and by the way, this is a moral victory for all those on this site who helped identify the immensity of the sponsorship deals.

I remmember when FPATT asked for your help in providing sponsorship information and you went ballistic and listed all the sponsors and relevent press releases. Without that info, maybe the players and their lawyers wouldn't have  contacted the govt for these figures.

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2007, 05:34:57 PM »
This article is the biggest news concerning football in trinidad and everyone should be realising that these people can be made to answer for their wrongdoings.

Therefore, I can't understand the attitude of people like Sam and Fishs.

The real questions that Sam and Fishs should be asking is : FPATT, how can I help?

Frankly, I think the 'ticket or leave it' scandal was much bigger as the shenanigans were revealed in a time period when everyone was concentrating on world cup football.
Moreover Jack's fiscal antics were  broadcast & written about globally plus the Andrew Jennings expose book was fresh off the presses. 
The government of T&T couldnt afford the level of media exposure the country recieved in 2006 if they had to pay for it

After all that negative press, the end result is zero. The status quo remains and the vampire continues to rule the crypt

I might disagree with fishs about 'how we go look', but I can see his viewpoint. Ater this great 'coup' that everyone is expecting. Will anything actually change?

I can also see what Sam is saying, but he is probably become a skeptic like myself out of raw frustration watching the whole process move with the speed of a glacier.
 Everyone wants the same thing.
The players should recieve the monies owed. we would love to see T&T players make it to 2010 and most important, The thieves should be ousted from TTFF.


Perhaps we are expecting too much too quickly from FPATT

Sometimes it takes a while to get the momentum moving when you start from scratch.  You have to accept your small victories, while aiming higher.

But what should we aim for? It is clear that Mr Warner and TTFF have no intention of recognising FPATT, so how can we proceed unless there is a change at the top? FPATT isn't here to replace TTFF. But how can we support our members if TTFF won't deal with us?

So, at this time, we will continue to do our best, with no funding and relying on volunteers. But seeing how superbly Kenwyne Jones performed today, and knowing that FPATT played a part in his transfer, you have to feel you have achieved something.

We have volunteers from this site assisting in many areas, and others from this site pledging to organise fundraisers. It is easy to criticise and harder to actually offer to help.

One thing I will say is that even the players were stunned by the $173m total. I personally cannot understand why TTFF didn't offer the players a higher sum, say $400,000 each, last year. They probably would have accepted it, not knowing how much was really involved. None of them wanted this dispute, and there wouldn't have been a need for a blacklist.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2007, 05:44:29 PM »
When I read this article, I couldn't wait to read the posts on this site. Surely this proves in black and white in a government document what you have all been saying ..... that there is corruption in the T&T football administration.
I've read thousands of posts from people asking why no one is doing anything about this and how its been going on for 20  34 years.


This should herald the beginning of the end for Warner, Camps, Roden etc. This article is the biggest news concerning football in trinidad and everyone should be realising that these people can be made to answer for their wrongdoings.
Therefore, I can't understand the attitude of people like Sam and Fishs.
Yes, this will bring about change, and perhaps there will be a period of confusion. But you can't bring down a dictatorship without facing difficult choices. But you should be spending time thinking about who should replace these guys. Lincoln Phillips? Shaka Hislop? Dexter Skeene?
As for FPATT, as I seem to recall, they are constantly asking people on this site for help. They are all volunteers and I don't think any of them get paid.
The real questions that Sam and Fishs should be asking is : FPATT, how can I help?
I have changed your timelime above, which reflects, in my opinion, when Jack started his reign of Tiefery, by not fighting for the people of TnT in Haiti.

I dont understand how people are NOT able to embrace the CHANGE that is coming!!
maybe some on here, if they were alive when children worked in the mines, would have supported the companies who wanted to continue the practise as it would deny the families money that the children made in the mines. ::) ::)

One thing I will say is that even the players were stunned by the $173m total. I personally cannot understand why TTFF didn't offer the players a higher sum, say $400,000 each, last year. They probably would have accepted it, not knowing how much was really involved. None of them wanted this dispute, and there wouldn't have been a need for a blacklist.
in hindsight, If only TTFF was so prudent,
what an UGLY mistress GREED has become
« Last Edit: September 15, 2007, 06:05:53 PM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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Offline g

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2007, 06:14:40 PM »
I swear, from a resolution standpoint all i want to see between the TTFF and the players are IRON CLAD CONTRACTS based on appearance and performance

contracts for x players over a y year period for everytime they are called into a national training squad for a game or tournament.

International Friendlies - pay grade a Bonus Scheme a
Fifa Qualification Matches - pay grade b Bonus Scheme b
Fifa Recognized Tournaments International - pay grade c Bonus Scheme c
Fifa Recognized Tournaments Regional - pay grade d Bonus Scheme d

Bonus Scheme
Team Victory Bonus
Goals Scored Bonus per player
Clean Sheet Bonus per player
Man of the Match Bonus
etc etc

If even before a squad is named, these contracts are ironed out and established, there will never be any dispute on who should be paid what, i just a matter of making the training squad and featuring in the game. If the players not happy with the contracts, they deal with their professional representation. If they not getting paid commensurate with the contractual agreement, then they have a clear case for legal recourse against the TTFF.

With respect to who in charge of the TTFF and how they collect and account for money so on and so forth i don't think is the responsibility of FPATT. Now if in trying to establish these contractual agreements the creditability of the TTFF comes into disrepute, then let the chips fall where they may.

We have to start doing things right, i hearing too many excuses.

The beatings will continue till Morale improves (Somebody signature from sometime ago)
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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2007, 06:30:08 PM »
Thats exactly what FPATT are trying to achieve. FPATT has publicly stated that they wish to begin negotiations for the 2010 WC campaign, but it is impossible to negotiate if you are not recognised.

42 countries have players associations that are recognised and respected. FIFA has stated that each new national profesional league in Africa MUST also have a players association. Yet their own VP is ignoring FPATT.

I have copied the article below from Dreamers "cancer" post, as it provides a stark comparison between the offical figures and those originally stated by TTFF. In light of the discovery of the real figures, TTFFs tone and language now appears to be outrageous.



Jack Warner silent as Trinidad Soca Warrior spirit fades
Players concerned about accuracy of T&TFF accounting
Published  10/9/2006
TrinidadExpress.com

 

Port-of-Spain---9 Oct. 2006---FIFA vice-president and Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) special adviser, Jack Warner, maintained his silence yesterday, as the Soca Warriors continued to slide towards disbandment. 

On Friday evening, the Warriors, led by team captain Dwight Yorke, declared their intention to resign from international duty due to an alleged breach of contract by the T&TFF.

A hasty release from T&TFF general secretary Richard Groden, which erroneously accused the players of planning a boycott of Saturday's friendly against St Vincent and the Grenadines, suggested that the problem lay with the distribution of sponsorship money.

Groden submitted an unaudited statement of income and expenditure to the national media, which claimed that the T&TFF received $18,255,952 for its part in the Germany 2006 World Cup.

The players are believed to be concerned about the accuracy of the T&TFF's accounting.

For starters, there was no mention of money accrued from television rights. The deal, which was agreed to between the players and Warner two days before the first leg World Cup play-off against Bahrain, controversially failed to share television money for the Bahrain legs, as well as a host of friendly matches against the likes of Iceland, Wales and the Czech Republic. These matches were televised throughout Europe by high-profile stations like Sky Sports and Euro Sports.

There is worry that several sponsors were omitted or figures doctored as well.

The T&TFF's accountant for this project, by its own admission, is Kenny Rampersad, who was revealed to be Warner's business partner during investigations on Simpaul Travel Services last December. Rampersad, at the time, was mandated to act on Simpaul's behalf.

Worse, as far as the players were concerned, the T&TFF then deducted expenses before handing over the Warriors' share. And a $9 million share was reduced to $141,102 to be split 25 ways-24 players and one share for the players' committee.

Last Thursday, Yorke and his teammates were told that their reward for taking Trinidad and Tobago to its inaugural World Cup-a feat that secured them a place in FIFA's history book as well as $1 million and a Chaconia (Gold) medal each from the Government-was worth TT$5,644.08 per player to the T&TFF.

In short, Groden contended that sponsors hustling to get on board after the team's qualification for the Germany World Cup insisted that the T&TFF put aside one third of their money for the 2010 campaign, which must not benefit the present players.

Even if the T&TFF was honest in its assessment that money be split only after deducting expenditure, the local body calculated expenses from February 2005 while the deal with the players was done nine months later.

The income and expenses section had questionable figures too.

In near two years-a period that included six World Cup qualifiers and the farewell fixture for retired legend Russell Latapy-the T&TFF claimed to receive just $5,217 from its bar. The bar was clearly a monumental failure considering that, in the expenses column, $238,715 was subtracted for refreshments.

A paltry $20,000 was budgeted for the sale of banners over the same period, with $300,000 for broadcast rights as well as $9.3 and $8.6 million for ticket sales and sponsorship, respectively.

Yorke might have been surprised to note that the players were paying their own salaries too. The players' match fees, allowances, accommodation and transportation were all deducted from their World Cup bonus package, as were the T&TFF's "FIFA/CONCACAF dues", gate equipment and scouting fees.

Yorke does not hold an accounting degree, but he clearly felt that something was awry.

"We cannot see how we can build on anything if the contracts that we enter into are not worth the paper they are written on. It is for these reasons we now feel the need to say goodbye to the international stage," said Yorke, who read from a prepared statement on Friday.

It is Warner who agreed a contract with the Warriors, but, to date, only Groden has defended the T&TFF's interpretation of it.

Yorke was scheduled to leave Trinidad yesterday evening to return to his employers, Sunderland FC in England. The Warriors' 5-0 win over St Vincent might be the last time that local fans see him sport national colours.

T&TFF press officer Shaun Fuentes could not confirm Warner's whereabouts yesterday.


Offline g

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2007, 06:35:49 PM »
No percentages either.... FPATT or any other player representative should not have to attempt at interpreting the TTFF's revenue streams to try and estabish a (fair cut) which is what really causing all this nonsense. Deal with numbers, win lose or draw the players are to paid a specific amount. Aight i gone.
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Offline dcs

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2007, 10:59:45 PM »
T&TFF mum on World Cup $m
'Give us arbitration not court'

-Lasana Liburd
Trinidad Express
Sunday, September 16th 2007


   

FIFA vice-president Jack Warner and Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) general secretary Richard Groden met lawyers Om Lalla and Kelvin Ramkisson yesterday to discuss financial information released by the Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs, which revealed that the local governing body received in excess of $173 million for their successful 2006 World Cup campaign.

The T&TFF initially claimed to have banked just $18 million last October-a claim that could be contested in court by the World Cup players who are owed half of the team's revenue.

There will be no response from the T&TFF over the weekend, though.

"We are strangers to that document," Lalla told the Sunday Express. "So we will not be making any comment until we have received the relevant documentation."

A notable absentee from the meeting was T&TFF president Oliver Camps. Warner hinted last month that Camps, a Maritime Insurance executive, should step down from his post to allow for a full-time T&TFF president.

Although there was no official response on the government figures, Lalla did express his dissatisfaction with remarks from the players' London-based counsel, Michael Townley, who told the Express that the documentation handed over by the government, in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act, was a blow to the credibility of the T&TFF.

"The matter is subjudice," said Lalla. "I am very surprised that their lawyer would make statements to the press that he might have to use as legal arguments in court."

Lalla reiterated that his client would seek to resolve the dispute through arbitration rather than in civil court. He said it was uncommon for sporting matters, particularly in football, to be resolved in court and insisted that provision was already made for mediation in the controversial World Cup pact agreed upon after a meeting between Warner and the Soca Warriors.

"The (World Cup) contract contained an arbitration clause which the players signed up to," said Lalla. "In the arena of sport law, it is common that matters do not go before the high court but rather through the arbitration process."

Townley told the Express, on Friday, he preferred to seek a settlement in civil court and argued that the T&TFF consistently ignored the players' questions about arbitration. However, Townley expressed his satisfaction with the Switzerland-based Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) who he referred to as "a robust, independent arbitration body".

Lalla is a member of CAS himself and suggested the possibility of the case being eventually referred there instead.

It was a rare case of compromise between the parties who have been at odds for the past 11 months.

The T&TFF still refuse to allow any of the 16 players seeking legal redress to represent their national team, which has curtailed the international careers of players like 22-year-old Sunderland star Kenwyne Jones and Southampton striker Stern John, who is the country's record goal scorer.

Legal representatives from both parties will meet on Friday in a local court hearing that should determine whether the bonus dispute will remain in court or be referred to arbitration.

Sooner or later, though, the financial documents offered by the Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs and extracted from Cabinet documents and other Governmental and Non-Governmental donors to the T&TFF will become key.
   

Offline WestCoast

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2007, 11:07:03 PM »
"Lalla is a member of CAS himself and suggested the possibility of the case being eventually referred there instead."
wouldn't he have to recuse himself from any debate on this subject when it is brought before the CAS.
But then again I don't have ANY faith in any organisation that Jackula is part of or is associated with in any way.
My "Thomas " personality is my strongest. ;)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 08:50:59 AM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2007, 12:27:57 AM »
FPATT be carefull that whilst you are looking to fix the injustice dealt to the players at the same time you guys not doing serious damage to Trinidad and Tobago credibility as a nation.
This big press or media coverage you guys looking for might be all well and good to enlighten the world about the going ons in TTFF and Jack Warner's dynasty but that doh win court cases.
What is the objective?
To make sure the players get what they were promised?
Or is it also in the plan to bring down TTFF and Jack Warner?
Whilst we all would like to have the latter done, remember TT is a small community by global standards and a lot of hard working innocent people will also be affected.
If the target of getting Jack out of our football is acheived an immediate cash flow problem will kick in and the Government will not be able to fill the gap not because they don't want to but because of how Government works.
A lot of people from managers to cleaners will in end up in CEPEP.
Plenty of the ongoing football programs going to come to a halt , because coachs and other staff not going to be paid etc.
I might be going over the top with a doomsday scenario but people better be seriously planning an alternative to what exists if the football is to continue to rise and not fall off.

Whilst all this going on in the glare of the world media descriptions like banana republic and corrupt ridden society bound to surface, that does nothing to the already badly beaten self esteem of nationals at home and abroad even if the description might be true.

I suggest that FPATT makes sure that the media releases are even handed and not sensationalist so that it could be understood that this whole mess is because of a handfull of greedy people and not an entire organisation and by extension nation.

Nonsense.

.
Anyhow this is my opinion and time will reveal if is nonsense or not in the mean time make a flip and please yuhself.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 12:46:10 AM by fishs »
Ah want de woman on de bass

Offline Bakes

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2007, 10:17:27 AM »

Anyhow this is my opinion and time will reveal if is nonsense or not in the mean time make a flip and please yuhself.
Indeed, it's your opinion...and we all know what they say about opinions and certain orifices.  In the interest of keeping the thread on track I'll leave it at that.  :beermug:

Offline dcs

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2007, 11:47:21 AM »


TTFF to refute ‘bobol’ charge

By WALTER ALIBEY
Trinidad & Tobago Newsday
Sunday, September 16 2007



THE TRINIDAD and Tobago Football Federation will tomorrow respond to a newspaper report charging they received in excess of $173 million during the last World Cup campaign.

Shaun Fuentes, the TTFF Media Officer said yesterday that a high profile meeting with TTFF’s general secretary Richard Groden and special advisor Jack Warner and the federation’s lawyers Om Lalla and Kelvin Ramkissoon was held at the Joao Havelange Concacaf Centre of Excellence, Tunapuna yesterday.

Warner and the top TTFF officials are attempting to receive pertinent documents before taking action against the damaging report alleging “bobol” or corruption.

Last night attorney Lalla pointed out that the Football Federation is “a complete stranger to the newspaper report” and therefore must be provided with a copy of the report before it can respond.

“Hopefully they will get a copy of the report by Monday and then they (TTFF) will know what steps to take,” Lalla said.

Yesterday’s newspaper report stated that Brent Williams, the Legal Advisor at the Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs had faxed figures of the amount of monies received by the Football Federation based on a request by Bates, Wells and Braithwaite London LLP Solicitors.

Bates, Wells and Braithwaite London LLP Solicitors have been representing players who represented the Trinidad and Tobago Soca Warriors in their bid to recover monies that they claimed have been owed to them by the TTFF. They have been advocating that special advisor Jack Warner and the TTFF agreed to share with them 50 percent of all sponsorship funds received from the Germany World Cup campaign.

Making their debut, TT pulled off a surprised 1-1 draw with Sweden before being beaten by England and Paraguay by a similar 2-0 scoreline.

The players have also refused to accept an amount offered to them by the TTFF and have agreed to take legal action against their former employer.

But last night Lalla said they will first attempt to seek the intervention of an arbitrator when the matter comes up on Friday of this week.

The $173 million plus, it is alleged, was taken from Cabinet documents and other Governmental and Non governmental donors to the TTFF.

It is said also that in addition to the whopping $173 million, the football federation also received$32 million to be shared among the players and technical staff, while gate receipts from the international friendly matches against Iceland, Peru, Slovenia and the Czech Republic was also excluded from the report.

The players have since formed the Football Players Association of Trinidad and Tobago (FPATT) and are being represented by a number of London lawyers who, according to the report, have never been able to figure out what sums of money are owed to the players.

It is stated that based on the figures revealed by government and Williams, the players (23 plus) will each be entitle to over $6 million. The players who were left out, include prolific striker Stern John, defender Brent Sancho, goalkeeper Kelvin Jack, striker Cornel Glenn and Kenwyn Jones — among many others, have since been blacklisted from the TT squad. They were left out of the Trinidad and Tobago team which participated unsuccessfully at the CONCACAF Gold Cup in the United States.

Offline dcs

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2007, 11:47:48 AM »

just keeping it together with the other articles for future ref

Offline grskywalker

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2007, 11:48:33 AM »
I wonder why the government cant charge the people in TTFF with fraud.

TTFF is a private entity...whatever they do with their money is not an issue for the Government.  Would be differently if they misappropriated public funds...or the funds of investors.

But Bake this is a matter of Bobol to the highest degree!! Remember it was JACK himself who made the promise to up the bonus, and it does not change the fact that there remains a couple hundred mill to be accounted for by the TTFF. FRAUD IS FRAUD NO MATTER WHO DOING IT AND THEM MEN GOING TO BURN. As a fan of our WARRIORS and TNT football, I feel that we have reached a saturation point, they have got to go and if it has to go all the way back to FIFA then so be it!!!

Offline grskywalker

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2007, 11:58:38 AM »
If the TTFF back down it will cause an upraised by the other players so I take it our blacklisted players will have to fight till de end. Do you think the TTFF giving up and then the other players will fell they could do the same.

FPATT' operating like the TTFF, is years now they barking and to date they cant even get off the ground. Many of our foreign players have alot of connection and they are also role models to many and you trying to tell me they cant organize anything solid.... or sell some auction products, build a website, throw fete after fete... etc etc....

I know its not easy, but with 16 plus players I am sure it wouldn't be as hard as if one man had to do everything. Unity is strength. The TTFF probably laughing now as they are paintently awaiting to see what the blacklisted players is up to. Some cant even gain a contract or play regular football....

FPATT' is a great idea and I will always support them, but I believe they need a strong minded man, a fast thinker, calm, smart and a no bullshiter to run the show... not a peroson who you hear from once every 2 months if you lucky and that person dont even play football again... you guys need to link up with Flex, he is full of great ideas.....

You guys need to finally get off your ass and start walking on your feet.....

Do you have any idea what FPATT is doing behind the scenes... or is it your assumption that the sum of their activities is what you read here on the net.

Sam what you wrote was bullshit, FPATT not working on his own boy, where you get that foolishness from, "FPATT operating like TTFF", what nonsense is that, my question to you is what are you prepared to do to present a solution or an idea that would assist them in their endeavours! In my lifetime this is a first for our footballers after decades of eating the shit that fall off TTFF table, these are the days of baby steps, try to look at the big picture and the future of all our National teams. STEEEEUUUUPSS I still cah believe you write that nonsense!!!

Offline duscam

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2007, 12:08:28 PM »
fishs-you talking like yuh aint watch the corruption index lately? and also like fpatt is not trinidadian run...

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi

« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 12:17:26 PM by duscam »

Offline Bakes

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2007, 12:15:31 PM »
I wonder why the government cant charge the people in TTFF with fraud.

TTFF is a private entity...whatever they do with their money is not an issue for the Government.  Would be differently if they misappropriated public funds...or the funds of investors.

But Bake this is a matter of Bobol to the highest degree!! Remember it was JACK himself who made the promise to up the bonus, and it does not change the fact that there remains a couple hundred mill to be accounted for by the TTFF. FRAUD IS FRAUD NO MATTER WHO DOING IT AND THEM MEN GOING TO BURN. As a fan of our WARRIORS and TNT football, I feel that we have reached a saturation point, they have got to go and if it has to go all the way back to FIFA then so be it!!!

Doh get me wrong...I agree with everything you said in terms of it being corruption and that Jack trying to renege on his promise.  That doesn't change the fact that TTFF is private and that this is their money we're talking about.  Whether $3 or $300M they really don't have to account to anybody for anything.  Think of it this way, let's say it was your money...you have $300 dollars in your bank account and you promise the three li'l mexican fellas on the corner $50 each to come help you clean out your basement.  When they done you only pay them $25...and they decide to take you to court.

What can the government (not the courts, eh...de US government, or even the government of the state of MD) do to force you to open up yuh bank book and account for how you got yuh money or how you spent it?  What can the government do to force you to pay the day laborers?  Nutten, right?

The courtroom is the only recourse FPATT has, unfortunately.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2007, 12:19:44 PM »
fishs-you talking like yuh aint watch the corruption index lately? and also like fpatt is not trinidadian run...
With all the tief Panday tief...all the crime and bobol Abu Bakr involve in...all the allegations of terrorism...dustbin blowing up in POS and thing...

People on here saying, "oh gawd FPATT, doh raise too much ah stink nah, dat embarrassing".  Steups.

Of course it's embarrassing, but the solution isn't to sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist...hoping that no one else in the world notices.  It's already out there...been out there since the ticket fiasco last year, been there with Jack getting raked over the coals by the ethics committee...been there with his comments about the English FA last month.

To sit by idly and do nothing...or do only as much as TTFF would allow (which is again, nothing) THAT is what would be embarrassing.

Offline duscam

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #56 on: September 17, 2007, 12:23:30 PM »
I wonder why the government cant charge the people in TTFF with fraud.

TTFF is a private entity...whatever they do with their money is not an issue for the Government.  Would be differently if they misappropriated public funds...or the funds of investors.

But Bake this is a matter of Bobol to the highest degree!! Remember it was JACK himself who made the promise to up the bonus, and it does not change the fact that there remains a couple hundred mill to be accounted for by the TTFF. FRAUD IS FRAUD NO MATTER WHO DOING IT AND THEM MEN GOING TO BURN. As a fan of our WARRIORS and TNT football, I feel that we have reached a saturation point, they have got to go and if it has to go all the way back to FIFA then so be it!!!

Doh get me wrong...I agree with everything you said in terms of it being corruption and that Jack trying to renege on his promise.  That doesn't change the fact that TTFF is private and that this is their money we're talking about.  Whether $3 or $300M they really don't have to account to anybody for anything.  Think of it this way, let's say it was your money...you have $300 dollars in your bank account and you promise the three li'l mexican fellas on the corner $50 each to come help you clean out your basement.  When they done you only pay them $25...and they decide to take you to court.

What can the government (not the courts, eh...de US government, or even the government of the state of MD) do to force you to open up yuh bank book and account for how you got yuh money or how you spent it?  What can the government do to force you to pay the day laborers?  Nutten, right?

The courtroom is the only recourse FPATT has, unfortunately.

It is a contract- even warner admitted it.....whether they private or otherwise they still have to abide by the rules and they still have recourse....

Offline kicker

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2007, 12:27:45 PM »
I wonder why the government cant charge the people in TTFF with fraud.

TTFF is a private entity...whatever they do with their money is not an issue for the Government.  Would be differently if they misappropriated public funds...or the funds of investors.

But Bake this is a matter of Bobol to the highest degree!! Remember it was JACK himself who made the promise to up the bonus, and it does not change the fact that there remains a couple hundred mill to be accounted for by the TTFF. FRAUD IS FRAUD NO MATTER WHO DOING IT AND THEM MEN GOING TO BURN. As a fan of our WARRIORS and TNT football, I feel that we have reached a saturation point, they have got to go and if it has to go all the way back to FIFA then so be it!!!

Doh get me wrong...I agree with everything you said in terms of it being corruption and that Jack trying to renege on his promise.  That doesn't change the fact that TTFF is private and that this is their money we're talking about.  Whether $3 or $300M they really don't have to account to anybody for anything.  Think of it this way, let's say it was your money...you have $300 dollars in your bank account and you promise the three li'l mexican fellas on the corner $50 each to come help you clean out your basement.  When they done you only pay them $25...and they decide to take you to court.

What can the government (not the courts, eh...de US government, or even the government of the state of MD) do to force you to open up yuh bank book and account for how you got yuh money or how you spent it?  What can the government do to force you to pay the day laborers?  Nutten, right?

The courtroom is the only recourse FPATT has, unfortunately.

It is a contract- even warner admitted it.....whether they private or otherwise they still have to abide by the rules and they still have recourse....

He's not saying that there will be no recourse- sure there will be legal recourse- he's just saying that it's not public record. Only Publicly held firms need to disclose records to the public. Unless stated somewhere in the bylaws, the TTFF being a federation relying on donations & sponsorship as opposed to shares sold on the open market has no fiduciary responsibility to the public. I gather that was his point
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Offline trinikev

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #58 on: September 17, 2007, 01:01:41 PM »
fishs-you talking like yuh aint watch the corruption index lately? and also like fpatt is not trinidadian run...
With all the tief Panday tief...all the crime and bobol Abu Bakr involve in...all the allegations of terrorism...dustbin blowing up in POS and thing...

People on here saying, "oh gawd FPATT, doh raise too much ah stink nah, dat embarrassing".  Steups.

Of course it's embarrassing, but the solution isn't to sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist...hoping that no one else in the world notices.  It's already out there...been out there since the ticket fiasco last year, been there with Jack getting raked over the coals by the ethics committee...been there with his comments about the English FA last month.

To sit by idly and do nothing...or do only as much as TTFF would allow (which is again, nothing) THAT is what would be embarrassing.

 :applause:

I completely agree with this sentiment. Ppl here too afraid of the necessary actions to affect the change that we all want. Now is not the time to be bashful, it is time to stand up and be counted
I support all Soca Warriors....Red, White and Blacklist

Offline Bakes

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Re: Watch this space!!
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2007, 01:12:30 PM »
It is a contract- even warner admitted it.....whether they private or otherwise they still have to abide by the rules and they still have recourse....

The government doesn't/can't enforce contracts.  As I said the only recourse is the courtroom...unless they reach a compromise thru mediation/arbitration which (from what I've seen) typically favors the defendantis and which is what TTFF pushing for.

 

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