Gareth Barry..or Frank Lampard?

[Filho]

Who should McClaren pick. Sounds like Barry earned the right to keep his spot...Also sounds like Gerrard not really feeling his partnership with Lamps

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=471919&cc=5901

England midfielder Steven Gerrard expects Gareth Barry to feel 'hard done by' if he is dropped in favour of Frank Lampard for the Euro 2008 qualifiers against Estonia and Russia.
Barry stepped into the side when Lampard was injured last month and formed an impressive partnership with Gerrard in the Wembley encounters with Russia and Israel.

Chelsea midfielder Lampard is fit again and could return to displace Barry as Gerrard's partnership.

But the Liverpool skipper, who will captain his country in the absence of John Terry against Estonia, said: 'Gareth was fantastic in both games and I'm sure he'll feel hard done by if he was dropped. He was man of the match in those two games.'

Gerrard is backing Michael Owen and Wayne Rooney to form a lethal strike partnership.

After Owen and Emile Heskey combined so well last month in the absence of the injured Rooney, questions have been raised about the Manchester United striker's ability to play with Owen.

But Gerrard told Sky Sports News the different qualities both players possessed meant they could play together.

He added: 'People who are doubting that combination, I can't really understand that. I think they're a great partnership.'

Rooney has not scored in a competitive England international since Euro 2004 but Gerrard said: 'That's mainly down to injuries. He's missed a lot of internationals.

'For Manchester United, he's getting back to his best and scoring goals. I think a goal is only around the corner.'

[kicker]

Barry did his cause no harm when he got the call.... but it would take something really special to keep Frankie out of the line up....even if he (Frank) is out of form.

[JDB]

Depends on whether you trying to get points in fantasy football or get good performances in England games that really matter..

[dinho]

Barry did his cause no harm when he got the call.... but it would take something really special to keep Frankie out of the line up....even if he (Frank) is out of form.

i beg to differ..

lampard's performances for england for a while now have been questionable, and his place on the team has been under some intense scrutiny..

i suspect mclaren never had the courage to drop him before, but given the success of the heskey experiment, and the fact that lampard only now coming back from injury, no better time than the present to drop him for the game against estonia...

besides.. from all accounts barry was excellent in the last couple games and seems like they found something in his partnership with gerrard.. england need to finally realize its about picking the best team and not best 11 players...

[trinikev]

IMO they shud stick with Barry. Not only had he done very well in the 2 previous games, Lampard has never been quite able to replicate his club form on the international stage, especially when playing with Gerrard. Barry definitely has helped the team , based on the last two games. If it not broken, then doh fix it

[kicker]

Barry did his cause no harm when he got the call.... but it would take something really special to keep Frankie out of the line up....even if he (Frank) is out of form.

i beg to differ..

lampard's performances for england for a while now have been questionable, and his place on the team has been under some intense scrutiny..

i suspect mclaren never had the courage to drop him before, but given the success of the heskey experiment, and the fact that lampard only now coming back from injury, no better time than the present to drop him for the game against estonia...

besides.. from all accounts barry was excellent in the last couple games and seems like they found something in his partnership with gerrard.. england need to finally realize its about picking the best team and not best 11 players...

good points. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I don't follow England closely, but I understand that Barry was really good when given the chance. I also gather that Lampard is a coach's player and has alot of big game experience- so I still think it's the kinda toss up of which Frankie might still end up on the right side.....wouldn't be surprised either way I guess.

[palos]

Hmmmm.....man was callin Lampard de best player in de world jes 2 short years ago.

Now he fightin up fuh a place on de England team wit Gareth Barry?

Does that then make Gareth Barry a candidate for best player in the World?

Or were those people who was toutin Lampard jes talkin out dey ass?

[Small Magician aka Wazza]

Gareth Barry or Frank Lampard?  I Choose Owen Hargreaves    unfortunately he is injured

but seriously.... i'll go with Fat Frank... he has to much quality.. barry did well..but i would rather fat frank

to bad mcClaren is a pussy and will choose barry

[JDB]

Barry did his cause no harm when he got the call.... but it would take something really special to keep Frankie out of the line up....even if he (Frank) is out of form.

i beg to differ..

lampard's performances for england for a while now have been questionable, and his place on the team has been under some intense scrutiny..

i suspect mclaren never had the courage to drop him before, but given the success of the heskey experiment, and the fact that lampard only now coming back from injury, no better time than the present to drop him for the game against estonia...

besides.. from all accounts barry was excellent in the last couple games and seems like they found something in his partnership with gerrard.. england need to finally realize its about picking the best team and not best 11 players...

good points. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I don't follow England closely, but I understand that Barry was really good when given the chance. I also gather that Lampard is a coach's player and has alot of big game experience- so I still think it's the kinda toss up of which Frankie might still end up on the right side.....wouldn't be surprised either way I guess.

I would say that there is very little debate.

The overwhelming press push is for Barry and Mc Claren would not go against them especially when he has an easy out.

Either of them could play against Estonia. He could cool Lampard down by saying that he giving him more time. If Barry plays poorly he will have justification to bring in Lampard for Russia.

If he plays Lampard and England does not do well he will look very stupid.

[Bakes]

Hmmmm.....man was callin Lampard de best player in de world jes 2 short years ago.

Now he fightin up fuh a place on de England team wit Gareth Barry?

Does that then make Gareth Barry a candidate for best player in the World?

Or were those people who was toutin Lampard jes talkin out dey ass?

Too early to say that Lampard "fighting up fuh a place" on the team.  McLaren is in a somewhat enviable position of having too good players for one spot.  Barry hasn't outplayed Lampard, nor has Lampard slipped...Lampard is rounding back into form after injury, and Barry is playing well.  The dilemma is thus, do you return Lampard to his accustomed place, or do you continue to ride the run of good play in Barry.

[RedDevils]

Coach should stick with Gareth Barry, he's played very well last 2 games. De midfield looked solid. Gerrard and Lampard dont really play well together. He even said it would be harsh to drop Barry now, meaning, keep lampard away from me. even before Lamps left with injury he was having a hard time producing on the field and got booed from england supporters whenever his name was called.

[berris]

Ah player like Frank Lampard or any starter, should not lose his place becuz of injury,if he's not performing well and gets dropped, then he have to work his way back into the team.This is not the case with Lampard,yes Barry perform well in his absence but is he a better player than Frank and at what point do you decide to play Lampard.
I agree with Omar,based on Gerrard comments,that Barry might be playing better alongside Gerrard but I cannot see a fit Lampard not in the England starting 11,Frank have to much big game experience and is one of de best midfielders England ever produce and IMO once he's fit it will be very hard to drop him. McClaren definately have he work cut out for him with this one.

[dinho]

the real problem is that lampard should be fighting for gerrard position not barry own...

the gerrard/lampard centre midfield combo is an arrangement to accomodate two of england best players but they both play the same role and both like to get forward.. that is why it dont work out for them... (remember them playing gerrard on the wings?)

an ideal england lineup right now on current form should have hargreaves and gerrard starting with lampard on the bench like small mag said...

but until england get a coach with some balls like Scolari who dont care about reputation or egos, they will continue to try to squeeze them two in the starting lineup just to keep dem happy..

[kicker]

Hmmmm.....man was callin Lampard de best player in de world jes 2 short years ago.

Now he fightin up fuh a place on de England team wit Gareth Barry?

Does that then make Gareth Barry a candidate for best player in the World?

Or were those people who was toutin Lampard jes talkin out dey ass?

Too early to say that Lampard "fighting up fuh a place" on the team.  McLaren is in a somewhat enviable position of having too good players for one spot.  Barry hasn't outplayed Lampard, nor has Lampard slipped...Lampard is rounding back into form after injury, and Barry is playing well.  The dilemma is thus, do you return Lampard to his accustomed place, or do you continue to ride the run of good play in Barry.

Maybe Barry didn't outplay Frank, but based on reports, I think many believe that Barry's style of play resulted in a smart simple and, more effective style of team play that was missing when Frankie was in the middle of the park- so what it might come down to is not necessarily which player is better/ in better form than which (they're both quality players- and I don't think many would be bold enough to say that Barry is better than Lampard), but rather what style of play will be more effective in the two upcoming games......guessing game if yuh ask me...to look at a player in isolation is one thing, to guestimate the resulting synergies & chemistry with the rest of the unit.....who knows?

[berris]

Hmmmm.....man was callin Lampard de best player in de world jes 2 short years ago.

Now he fightin up fuh a place on de England team wit Gareth Barry?

Does that then make Gareth Barry a candidate for best player in the World?

Or were those people who was toutin Lampard jes talkin out dey ass?

Too early to say that Lampard "fighting up fuh a place" on the team.  McLaren is in a somewhat enviable position of having too good players for one spot.  Barry hasn't outplayed Lampard, nor has Lampard slipped...Lampard is rounding back into form after injury, and Barry is playing well.  The dilemma is thus, do you return Lampard to his accustomed place, or do you continue to ride the run of good play in Barry.

Maybe Barry didn't outplay Frank, but based on reports, I think many believe that Barry's style of play resulted in a smart simple and, more effective style of team play that was missing when Frankie was in the middle of the park- so what it might come down to is not necessarily which player is better than which (they're both quality players- and I don't think many would be bold enough to say that Barry is better than Lampard), but rather what style of play will be more effective in the two upcoming games......guessing game if yuh ask me.

Kicker I doh agree with the statement in bold becuz Frank's game is not flashy, it is 'simple' (ah know yuh din say it was flashy eh  )  and also 'smart', to me he brings more to the table than Barry e.g creativeness.
We judging Barry on his last 2 performances,yes he play well and is a very good player,but if Frank was not injured would we be even having this conversation now ?

[Tenorsaw]

England's midfield have better balance with Barry and Gerrard playing together.  Looks like Stevie came out and said that because he wants Barry to play ahead of Lamps.  There is a bit of bias ther though, since Barry anf GErrard are good friends off the pitch.  You get the feeling that Gerrard holds back when he is playing with Lamps, playing a bit deeper, while he is allowed to push up a bit more often with Barry.  Maybe he and Lamps can't agree because Lamps doean't switch it up and drop back a bit to allow Gerrard to go forward more often.

[kicker]

Hmmmm.....man was callin Lampard de best player in de world jes 2 short years ago.

Now he fightin up fuh a place on de England team wit Gareth Barry?

Does that then make Gareth Barry a candidate for best player in the World?

Or were those people who was toutin Lampard jes talkin out dey ass?

Too early to say that Lampard "fighting up fuh a place" on the team.  McLaren is in a somewhat enviable position of having too good players for one spot.  Barry hasn't outplayed Lampard, nor has Lampard slipped...Lampard is rounding back into form after injury, and Barry is playing well.  The dilemma is thus, do you return Lampard to his accustomed place, or do you continue to ride the run of good play in Barry.

Maybe Barry didn't outplay Frank, but based on reports, I think many believe that Barry's style of play resulted in a smart simple and, more effective style of team play that was missing when Frankie was in the middle of the park- so what it might come down to is not necessarily which player is better than which (they're both quality players- and I don't think many would be bold enough to say that Barry is better than Lampard), but rather what style of play will be more effective in the two upcoming games......guessing game if yuh ask me.

Kicker I doh agree with the statement in bold becuz Frank's game is not flashy, it is 'simple' (ah know yuh din say it was flashy eh  )  and also 'smart', to me he brings more to the table than Barry e.g creativeness.
We judging Barry on his last 2 performances,yes he play well and is a very good player,but if Frank was not injured would we be even having this conversation now ?

Yeah well like I said- I don't follow England closely..and I haven't seen them play with Gareth Barry on the field....just commenting based on reports which refer to specific games...I eh judging the two players' abilities in general...If you saw the games and don't agree that England were smarter and simpler with Gareth Barry on the field- then yuh disagreeing with many of ther reports....and it's all good....

[JDB]

Kicker I doh agree with the statement in bold becuz Frank's game is not flashy, it is 'simple' (ah know yuh din say it was flashy eh  )  and also 'smart', to me he brings more to the table than Barry e.g creativeness.
We judging Barry on his last 2 performances,yes he play well and is a very good player,but if Frank was not injured would we be even having this conversation now ?

Berris I really disagree with these statements.

Lampard has not palyed well for England since before the last World Cup. If Lampard wasn't injured we could have been seeing the kind of perfomances that had them drawing with Israel and losing to Croatia.

As for creativity...if yuh talking playing freekicks into the box they about even and that is the length and breath of Lampard's creativity for the rest of the team. he does create space for himself and he has an eye for goal and a good shot.

Barry takes corners just as well, plays better through balls ( he set up at least 3 of England's last six goals) and is much, much better defensively.

[palos]

Steupes.

Barry....Lampard.  Cyah believe man arguin over 2 AVERAGE footballers on a relatively AVERAGE team at bess. 

[Bakes]

Steupes.

Barry....Lampard.  Cyah believe man arguin over 2 AVERAGE footballers on a relatively AVERAGE team at bess. 

Haul yuh rancid backside nuh...is big people talking 'bout big players on ah big team here 

[palos]

Steupes.

Barry....Lampard.  Cyah believe man arguin over 2 AVERAGE footballers on a relatively AVERAGE team at bess. 

Haul yuh rancid backside nuh...is big people talking 'bout big players on ah big team here 

 

[berris]

Kicker I doh agree with the statement in bold becuz Frank's game is not flashy, it is 'simple' (ah know yuh din say it was flashy eh  )  and also 'smart', to me he brings more to the table than Barry e.g creativeness.
We judging Barry on his last 2 performances,yes he play well and is a very good player,but if Frank was not injured would we be even having this conversation now ?

Berris I really disagree with these statements.

Lampard has not palyed well for England since before the last World Cup. If Lampard wasn't injured we could have been seeing the kind of perfomances that had them drawing with Israel and losing to Croatia.

As for creativity...if yuh talking playing freekicks into the box they about even and that is the length and breath of Lampard's creativity for the rest of the team. he does create space for himself and he has an eye for goal and a good shot.

Barry takes corners just as well, plays better through balls ( he set up at least 3 of England's last six goals) and is much, much better defensively.

I hear yuh JDB but we will have to disagree on the 'creativity' part.Lampard creativity is not just free kicks,where I truly believe he is better than Barry,he creates more space for himself and score more goals,as you said. IMO Frank is the total midfielder ,he cud pelt blade,play the killer ball to the forwards or to anyone in the position.McClaren know England wont get far scoring 1 goal ,they won't win like that against tougher opposition and Frank is a proven goal scorer while Barry will get the odd goal here and there.
Barry definately brings good chemistry to the team,as he showed in the last 2 games but that was just in those 2 games, if Frank start and does not perform well then McClaren has the option of bringing in Barry and if he  cud seize the opportunity and perform well on a regular basis then we may see a changing of the gaurds but until then Frank Lampard is England's best midfielder.

[Filho]

So Barry keeps his place

[giggsy11]

Barry. He plays within the team concept. Frank has never seen ashot he didn't like. He is a glory hunter!

[giggsy11]

Actually if Scholes was still playing Frank would not even have been a part of any debate! Frank is overated! He is a hard workin fella with limited / average skills but does try to play like he have bigger skills. Which is why he does give away the ball and as a result kill plays! He lacks creativity and vision.

[dwn]

Hmmmm.....man was callin Lampard de best player in de world jes 2 short years ago.

Now he fightin up fuh a place on de England team wit Gareth Barry?

Does that then make Gareth Barry a candidate for best player in the World?

Or were those people who was toutin Lampard jes talkin out dey ass?

  Alot can happen in two years in football.

[JDB]

I hear yuh JDB but we will have to disagree on the 'creativity' part.Lampard creativity is not just free kicks,where I truly believe he is better than Barry,he creates more space for himself and score more goals,as you said. IMO Frank is the total midfielder ,he cud pelt blade,play the killer ball to the forwards or to anyone in the position.McClaren know England wont get far scoring 1 goal ,they won't win like that against tougher opposition and Frank is a proven goal scorer while Barry will get the odd goal here and there.
Barry definately brings good chemistry to the team,as he showed in the last 2 games but that was just in those 2 games, if Frank start and does not perform well then McClaren has the option of bringing in Barry and if he  cud seize the opportunity and perform well on a regular basis then we may see a changing of the gaurds but until then Frank Lampard is England's best midfielder.

Berris I don't want to fight this down but we see a very different Lampard.

Lampard is not a total midfielder, he is an attacking midfielder IMO. You see this when he and Lampard play together, the midfield looks like a sieve. He gets space and scores lots of goals becaue he plays an attacking midfield role. For Chelsea he usually has one or two plays "carrying water" for him and covering for when he loses the ball trying to make plays. He plays a similar role as Ronaldinho without the ability to play through balls or beat players. What he does do is shoot often and from anywhere. His best goalscoring year was ehen he was playing behind a single striker for Chelsea coming from deep to fill the space of a second striker.

His defensive skills are way over rated. He tracks back and will pelt a tackle or pick a man pocket but he is not a real defensive presence lke Essien, Gerrard or Barry, each of whom could more than hold down a defensive position. Lampard is the modern England equivalent of David Platt good at breaking into the box, scores plenty goals, will run from box to box, has plenty visibility but not a real engine for a team.

[berris]

I hear yuh JDB but we will have to disagree on the 'creativity' part.Lampard creativity is not just free kicks,where I truly believe he is better than Barry,he creates more space for himself and score more goals,as you said. IMO Frank is the total midfielder ,he cud pelt blade,play the killer ball to the forwards or to anyone in the position.McClaren know England wont get far scoring 1 goal ,they won't win like that against tougher opposition and Frank is a proven goal scorer while Barry will get the odd goal here and there.
Barry definately brings good chemistry to the team,as he showed in the last 2 games but that was just in those 2 games, if Frank start and does not perform well then McClaren has the option of bringing in Barry and if he  cud seize the opportunity and perform well on a regular basis then we may see a changing of the gaurds but until then Frank Lampard is England's best midfielder.

Berris I don't want to fight this down but we see a very different Lampard.

Lampard is not a total midfielder, he is an attacking midfielder IMO. You see this when he and Lampard play together, the midfield looks like a sieve. He gets space and scores lots of goals becaue he plays an attacking midfield role. For Chelsea he usually has one or two plays "carrying water" for him and covering for when he loses the ball trying to make plays. He plays a similar role as Ronaldinho without the ability to play through balls or beat players. What he does do is shoot often and from anywhere. His best goalscoring year was ehen he was playing behind a single striker for Chelsea coming from deep to fill the space of a second striker.

His defensive skills are way over rated. He tracks back and will pelt a tackle or pick a man pocket but he is not a real defensive presence lke Essien, Gerrard or Barry, each of whom could more than hold down a defensive position. Lampard is the modern England equivalent of David Platt good at breaking into the box, scores plenty goals, will run from box to box, has plenty visibility but not a real engine for a team.

JDB leh we agree to dissagree ...is all good