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Author Topic: What is Wim coaching record?  (Read 7275 times)

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Offline grskywalker

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2007, 09:46:49 AM »
What has Wim accomplish as a coach before taking over our National program. Are these guys just there to make a quick buck and run.

Having foreign coaches and losing to Grenada is totally unacceptable.Someone please tell me what has Wim accomplish as a head coach before taking over our National program, and don't tell me that he work with this coach and that coach.

Would it be acceptable if we lost to Grenada with a local coach  ???
What is your point  ???

Just curious,what were your accomplishments before yuh call yuh self a 'coach' ? or before yuh start coaching whatever team yuh coaching now,if yuh have a team that is....and doh tell meh yuh work with this coach or that coach eh.


 :rotfl: :rotfl: Thank you berris men is get tie up. some times. We have an administration in disarray, players who are not up to par technically, poor preparation programmes for tournaments. So you asking the coach to get water from a rock

Offline maxg

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2007, 09:48:40 AM »
kicker daiz nuh you ! Yuh waayyy better dan that.ah readin yuh for awhile, and doh ah don't know yuh, ah feel ah know an respect the spirit....Wha iz dah one bro ?  :(

Offline dinho

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2007, 09:52:56 AM »

Ok Wim is shit....he has no status, no pedigree, he deserves no respect and you're making the world of sense and maybe the world of armchair coaches and experts on this msg should be hired to screen, interview, pay/finance....in fact f*ck that....we should start a coalition of armchair coaches from this msg board to run the TTFF & coach the players....guaranteed success..... :beermug:

calm down breds..

you guys made a point that we shouldnt use coaching experience as a barometer for the ability of someone to be a successful coach.. and highlighted examples in ex-players turned coaches in the global game who have enjoyed success..

i agreed, but tried to point out some of the contributing factors to success in such situations.. factors that i don't think exist in wim's situation and went on to explain why..

simple as that.. no need to get all wild..
         

Offline kicker

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2007, 10:01:54 AM »
kicker daiz nuh you ! Yuh waayyy better dan that.ah readin yuh for awhile, and doh ah don't know yuh, ah feel ah know an respect the spirit....Wha iz dah one bro ?  :(

Nah man that's just my sarcastic dismissal of the debate...

I respect Wim for what he's done. Personally if I were him, I woulda probably walked out on the job by now because our house has been in shambles since he took over, his player pool has been sub par at best and he's received no support from anyone.

Yet people want us to be beating Mexico & U.S. all of a sudden.....

Forget blood sweat & fete or any of our "supporters club" slogans...it whould be "quick fix or licks" or something to that effect.

People even blaming him for the failure of a team that he wasn't even in charge of......waste of my time.
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Offline Filho

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2007, 10:21:50 AM »


first point... If i haven't heard about wim, its unlikely that those players representing the national team have heard of him either.. or heard of him sufficiently enough to rate him as someone deserving of that kind of respect afforded to a legendary player.. furthermore, my first point was about nationalistic respect due, and that his dutch and not trini nationality exempts him from this...

second point was not meant at all to point fingers at wim, but show that this is a key success factor for those ex-player miraculously turned coaches without qualifications...  and i dont think he has that cast.. with the right supporting cast, diego maradona could be a great coach u know!

third point... filho.. our national players are not old and grey like you  ;D (j/k), most are born from 1980 onwards and by and large their knowledge of that era would probably not go much further than johann cruyff..... i'm willing to bet that my ignorance of dutch domestic and national football back then is theirs as well... it needs to be something they can identify with an is usually the case with the "ex-player coach" status types...

re: his coaching experience check the list. all them years he coaching only as an assistant or youth coach? Sorry but i think a team with world cup ambitions deserves better than that... Even our less endowed neighbors jamaica courting sven goran eriksson and other high calibre coaches...

see and try to understand my point that ex-players turn coaches, coach in their own countries where they have that status before you say i am not making any sesne..

breds..yuh responding to kicker posts and only calling Filho...waiz dah one?  ;D

anyhow..I jumping in.

1) Doh matter if yuh never head about Wim before. Respect can be earned and when yuh find out who he played for and when he played he will earn yuh respect. Yuh acting like the current players can't understand that a double World cup finalist with the Oranje is not a big big player.

2) Second point is at best neutral..Guess who was an important part of Beenie's successful suporting staff? Righto..so that is a big up for Wim. So yuh saying that Wim and co. probably knew what they were doing. The quality of Wim's supporting staff now?..dunno. Besides, look at Klinnsman's right hand man at WC 2006 and currently national coach...Jaochim Lowe. German's still asking who he is. Dunga's right hand man is Jorginho...zero coaching experience as well. Experience is a nice to have..I never duck that...but sometimes, yuh just good at what yuh do.

3) Yuh just regurgitating the first point. Yuh real feel our national players dumb if yuh feel they can't respect Wim's pedigree as a player, even if they never heard of him before.

That formula you have for star players turned coaches doh hold up. A lot of top class players start their careers outside of their nation (Matheus, Vialli, Gullit, Roy Keane for example) or as in the case of many I mentioned go straight into the national team before they even had a head coach position at a domestic club..Van Basten, Rijkaard, Dunga, Klinnsman, Voeller, Stoichovic...)

Anyway..I done state my stance, so I eh go repeat. Just wanted to touch on them three points

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Offline maxg

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2007, 10:28:48 AM »
phew kicker...ah nearly had to start changing lifestyle yes...is because ah you, Filho, Touches and the moderators, jus to name ah few, ah still make it meh business to be here   :beermug:
ok...back to the talk...an is jus talk eh...
You een walking out no job - no matter how bad - unless yuh have ah nex one to walk in too...well unless yuh mark buss or someting..
no one cyah blame Wim for nuthen...yet somebody has to be held accountable...an the foreigner is always the easiest scapegoat...Even out here in foreign, it does wuk so...No matter the frenchman(local) hypothectically(ah think is the wrong word)  refuse to do that job, when man cyah fine wuk, is the immigrant does hold the blame "too much blasted foreigners". So it natural for the general populace to point at the Wims an dem..but the underlying issues usually lie within the so called local/public forums, and is the most knowledgable or experienced  ppl recognize such, unfortunately, these are usually the minority or least empowered, thus difficult situation to get a grip on.....So 99 % of the time, all one can do is talk, and demonstrate and suffer the hardships of having a minority view....We sometimes fail to see the destruction, cause so much locusts in our face. After they have passed, then we can see. We didn't prepare our fields before hand, we just planted and hoped to reap...so is it the fault of the locust ?....whey ah jus went orf on dat yes...ah getting freaky in meh ole age in trute    :D

Offline kicker

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2007, 10:51:09 AM »

Ok Wim is shit....he has no status, no pedigree, he deserves no respect and you're making the world of sense and maybe the world of armchair coaches and experts on this msg should be hired to screen, interview, pay/finance....in fact f*ck that....we should start a coalition of armchair coaches from this msg board to run the TTFF & coach the players....guaranteed success..... :beermug:

calm down breds..

you guys made a point that we shouldnt use coaching experience as a barometer for the ability of someone to be a successful coach.. and highlighted examples in ex-players turned coaches in the global game who have enjoyed success..

i agreed, but tried to point out some of the contributing factors to success in such situations.. factors that i don't think exist in wim's situation and went on to explain why..

simple as that.. no need to get all wild..


Not true- and you did not agree. You discredited him as a player because you had never heard of him- basically saying that unless he was a popular star player he ought not to garner any respect in the dressing room- I don't think that rationale makes sense.

You then commented on his supporting cast- which I acknowledge as fair enough but sorta besides the point because people here people are pointing at Wim's coaching record regardless of his supporting cast (..and even so I challenge you to educate me about the credentials of the supporting cast of Klinsmann, Voeller, Hagi, Stoickov etc who you hold in such high regard)

Then you went back to speak of his lack of umpteen years of coaching experience- which is also inaccurate- even if you discredit less than glamorous positions...and you claim that umpteen years of coaching experience should compensate for his less than star studded reputation as a player. Your last assertion was that the less popular a player you were, is the more experience you should have as a coach to back up a claim to competence/ability- To me that is just pure & plain garbage... unless you think there is a correlation between potential/ability to coach and some popularity contest that is based on a limited knowledge of the game derived through soccernet.com, FSC & GolTV. I agree that the less coaching experience you have, the more playing accomplishments you should be able to attest to, regardless of popularity- and Wim is up there with anyone else who's coached us, and many other teams when it comes to playing credentials. If off the bat, the players never heard of him and hence have doubts then fine, but if after learning of his playing experience, they still say "I never heard of you, you deserve no respect- that's right up there with the logic communicated by d#1 trinba. And even if his story is not identical to Klinsmann's etc....the analogy still fits if you doubt his coaching record....so....

I still don't think you're making sense....Not getting wild- just dismissing what you have to say. Your first sentence was "feel free to bash it"...consider my response as such

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Offline Midknight

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2007, 10:52:01 AM »
Forget blood sweat & fete or any of our "supporters club" slogans...it whould be "quick fix or licks" or something to that effect.

I like it. I could take ah borrow for me new sig ?
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Offline kicker

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2007, 10:55:36 AM »
Forget blood sweat & fete or any of our "supporters club" slogans...it whould be "quick fix or licks" or something to that effect.

I like it. I could take ah borrow for me new sig ?

 ;D like yuhself....
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Offline dinho

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2007, 11:31:53 AM »

Ok Wim is shit....he has no status, no pedigree, he deserves no respect and you're making the world of sense and maybe the world of armchair coaches and experts on this msg should be hired to screen, interview, pay/finance....in fact f*ck that....we should start a coalition of armchair coaches from this msg board to run the TTFF & coach the players....guaranteed success..... :beermug:

calm down breds..

you guys made a point that we shouldnt use coaching experience as a barometer for the ability of someone to be a successful coach.. and highlighted examples in ex-players turned coaches in the global game who have enjoyed success..

i agreed, but tried to point out some of the contributing factors to success in such situations.. factors that i don't think exist in wim's situation and went on to explain why..

simple as that.. no need to get all wild..


Not true- and you did not agree. You discredited him as a player because you had never heard of him- basically saying that unless he was a popular star player he ought not to garner any respect in the dressing room- I don't think that rationale makes sense.

yes i agreed, because you said ex-players without formal coaching experience can make good coaches.. i said yes they can providing certain things were in place, which i dont feel they are in wim's case..

furthermore you're being unfairly absolute in trying to assess my stance..  I said he would not get as much respect as someone who is a national legend, which is where i brought in the example of latapy... you know; just like rijkaard/van basten coached holland, klinsmann coached germany and dunga coaching brazil?.. where exactly did i say that wim would not garner any respect in a dressing room??  i also notice no one has yet spoken to what i said about the respect afforded a national legend coming to coach his own national team, and the connotations of that.. which makes me believe you're totally missing my first point.


You then commented on his supporting cast- which I acknowledge as fair enough but sorta besides the point because people here people are pointing at Wim's coaching record regardless of his supporting cast (..and even so I challenge you to educate me about the credentials of the supporting cast of Klinsmann, Voeller, Hagi, Stoickov etc who you hold in such high regard)

sorry, i cant tell you the names and credentials of the members of the coaching units under those players listed.. What i can tell you is that these players-come-coaches are usually surrounded by a talented cast selected and provided by their federations.. what you figure the KNVB or German Federation does say, "We want you to come and coach.. and choose and bring a team of coaches when yuh comin"?? sorry but thats just being plain naive..

Then you went back to speak of his lack of umpteen years of coaching experience- which is also inaccurate- even if you discredit less than glamorous positions...and you claim that umpteen years of coaching experience should compensate for his less than star studded reputation as a player. Your last assertion was that the less popular a player you were, is the more experience you should have as a coach to back up a claim to competence/ability- To me that is just pure & plain garbage... unless you think there is a correlation between potential/ability to coach and some popularity contest that is based on a limited knowledge of the game derived through soccernet.com, FSC & GolTV. I agree that the less coaching experience you have, the more playing accomplishments you should be able to attest to, regardless of popularity- and Wim is up there with anyone else who's coached us, and many other teams when it comes to playing credentials. If off the bat, the players never heard of him and hence have doubts then fine, but if after learning of his playing experience, they still say "I never heard of you, you deserve no respect- that's right up there with the logic communicated by d#1 trinba. And even if his story is not identical to Klinsmann's etc....the analogy still fits if you doubt his coaching record....so....

once again you're being absolute.. you come again claiming i said the man will get and deserve NO respect, which i never did... think of the question of "what does an ex-player need to be a successful coach", and think of what i said as making suggestions.. 

I still don't think you're making sense....Not getting wild- just dismissing what you have to say. Your first sentence was "feel free to bash it"...consider my response as such



if you honestly think wim getting more props and respect for his playing career as opposed to the integral role he played on beenhakker's coaching staff during the world cup campaign, then you're sadly mistaken.. 

plain and simple, wim got the job on the back of the job he did with our world cup team which i give him credit for, and thats where his reputation was built.. neither on the fact that he has a long reputable coaching career nor his experience as a player..

i even agreed with his selection as national coach at that point going forward.. and i also think its unfair to blame our football crisis on him given what he has to work with, and i'm surprised he's even sticking around.. my earlier post in this thread speaks to that.. but that said, i also think we need someone better for our 2010 campaign...

i respect the fact that you disagree with my opinion.. but just think about this for a second eh.. 

wim would never be coaching trinidad and tobago with that combination of coaching and playing experience if he was not on leo beenhakker's coaching team...
         

Offline berris

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2007, 11:34:58 AM »
Coach I still waiting ....wham ???
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Offline kicker

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2007, 11:50:58 AM »

Ok Wim is shit....he has no status, no pedigree, he deserves no respect and you're making the world of sense and maybe the world of armchair coaches and experts on this msg should be hired to screen, interview, pay/finance....in fact f*ck that....we should start a coalition of armchair coaches from this msg board to run the TTFF & coach the players....guaranteed success..... :beermug:

calm down breds..

you guys made a point that we shouldnt use coaching experience as a barometer for the ability of someone to be a successful coach.. and highlighted examples in ex-players turned coaches in the global game who have enjoyed success..

i agreed, but tried to point out some of the contributing factors to success in such situations.. factors that i don't think exist in wim's situation and went on to explain why..

simple as that.. no need to get all wild..


Not true- and you did not agree. You discredited him as a player because you had never heard of him- basically saying that unless he was a popular star player he ought not to garner any respect in the dressing room- I don't think that rationale makes sense.

yes i agreed, because you said ex-players without formal coaching experience can make good coaches.. i said yes they can providing certain things were in place, which i dont feel they are in wim's case..

furthermore you're being unfairly absolute in trying to assess my stance..  I said he would not get as much respect as someone who is a national legend, which is where i brought in the example of latapy... you know; just like rijkaard/van basten coached holland, klinsmann coached germany and dunga coaching brazil?.. where exactly did i say that wim would not garner any respect in a dressing room??  i also notice no one has yet spoken to what i said about the respect afforded a national legend coming to coach his own national team, and the connotations of that.. which makes me believe you're totally missing my first point.


You then commented on his supporting cast- which I acknowledge as fair enough but sorta besides the point because people here people are pointing at Wim's coaching record regardless of his supporting cast (..and even so I challenge you to educate me about the credentials of the supporting cast of Klinsmann, Voeller, Hagi, Stoickov etc who you hold in such high regard)

sorry, i cant tell you the names and credentials of the members of the coaching units under those players listed.. What i can tell you is that these players-come-coaches are usually surrounded by a talented cast selected and provided by their federations.. what you figure the KNVB or German Federation does say, "We want you to come and coach.. and choose and bring a team of coaches when yuh comin"?? sorry but thats just being plain naive..

Then you went back to speak of his lack of umpteen years of coaching experience- which is also inaccurate- even if you discredit less than glamorous positions...and you claim that umpteen years of coaching experience should compensate for his less than star studded reputation as a player. Your last assertion was that the less popular a player you were, is the more experience you should have as a coach to back up a claim to competence/ability- To me that is just pure & plain garbage... unless you think there is a correlation between potential/ability to coach and some popularity contest that is based on a limited knowledge of the game derived through soccernet.com, FSC & GolTV. I agree that the less coaching experience you have, the more playing accomplishments you should be able to attest to, regardless of popularity- and Wim is up there with anyone else who's coached us, and many other teams when it comes to playing credentials. If off the bat, the players never heard of him and hence have doubts then fine, but if after learning of his playing experience, they still say "I never heard of you, you deserve no respect- that's right up there with the logic communicated by d#1 trinba. And even if his story is not identical to Klinsmann's etc....the analogy still fits if you doubt his coaching record....so....

once again you're being absolute.. you come again claiming i said the man will get and deserve NO respect, which i never did... think of the question of "what does an ex-player need to be a successful coach", and think of what i said as making suggestions.. 

I still don't think you're making sense....Not getting wild- just dismissing what you have to say. Your first sentence was "feel free to bash it"...consider my response as such



if you honestly think wim getting more props and respect for his playing career as opposed to the integral role he played on beenhakker's coaching staff during the world cup campaign, then you're sadly mistaken.. 

plain and simple, wim got the job on the back of the job he did with our world cup team which i give him credit for, and thats where his reputation was built.. neither on the fact that he has a long reputable coaching career nor his experience as a player..

i even agreed with his selection as national coach at that point going forward.. and i also think its unfair to blame our football crisis on him given what he has to work with, and i'm surprised he's even sticking around.. my earlier post in this thread speaks to that.. but that said, i also think we need someone better for our 2010 campaign...

i respect the fact that you disagree with my opinion.. but just think about this for a second eh.. 

wim would never be coaching trinidad and tobago with that combination of coaching and playing experience if he was not on leo beenhakker's coaching team...

You're turning this into a pointless argument and you're bringing up things that were never said, implied and are besides the point.

No one ever said that Wim would have gotten the job without Beenie. No one ever said that his credentials as a player weigh more heavily than his role as an assistant. No one ever claimed that the Dutch style of picking a supporting cast is identical to what is done in T&T..That was never even a point of contention....You are the one who claimed the superiority of those guys' supporting cast- and you don't even have a clue about them so I challenged you on it....and you still came up blank- full stop....Sadly mistaken? Naive ?? Steuppss..You're just throwing around antagonistic words with no substance & you're the one who is sadly just trying to win an argument that is weak. How can you say that you respect the fact that I'm disagreeing, and then put words in my mouth just to attempt to one up? If that is respectful disagreement then I done.....

There are obvious differences between the backgrounds of Klinsmann, Voeller, Dunga etc... & Wim ...I am in no way asserting that Wim is or will be as competent as they are. I stated that loud & clear...But if you are gonna indict Wim on the basis of having no prior coaching record- I think the analogy still holds...no analogy is perfect I agree, but I think the criteria that you use to shoot down the analogy is pretty weak...
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Offline Bakes

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2007, 12:12:04 PM »
Quote from: Filho link=topic=31471.msg362363#msg362363

Reread my post. (it was edited by the way..probably while you were typing but the gist remains the same).  I never said fishs observations may not be on point. All I am sayinng is I find them irrelevant to the question. And I have nutten against speculation..I admit I and all speculating. U seriously read my post? I just questioning what we speculating on here. Based on Coach's post, i assume he wants to discuss Wim's ability as a coach based on his resume. Coach posed his question as a direct reaction to the Under 23 results. So the assumption should be that he stays and does a job....could a more experienced coach do a  better job? What has Wim achieved in the past to make him competent to do the job? Whether his experience may have made him handle the TTFF in a different manner does not come into my assessment of his ability as a coach cuz i have no idea how big Phil and co would address the situation. Also..if Wim up and left what would there be to judge. Whether he has sufficient integrity or experience to move on to bigger and better things says nothing to me about his ability to do a good job with our players. The former could lead to problems and of course is unwanted. The latter is just a statement about him being relatively unknown..but says nothing about whether he is competent or not. I figured this was about whether he should be doing better with the talent at hand and whether he'd be doing better if he had more experince. Simple as that. And my response to that was my first post. Now if fishs and you and whoever else interpret the question differently...then fine...but I think yuh stretching and engaging in a completely different conversation. But you wrong if you take my comments to say fishs not on point...or may not be offereing a valid point of view..check again..just think his points are for a different discussion altogether



Yeah I read your post...a couple times and responded (I thought) with sufficient details so as to make it obvious that there was some analysis.  I never said that you said/implied he wasn't on point...rather like I said, you seem to take him to task for speculating when in fact to a great deal, you're doing the same.  Hence my comment about some types of speculation being better than others.

At any rate I just find Fishs' brand of speculation to be in keeping with similar thoughts that I've also harbored  :beermug:

Offline maxg

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2007, 12:15:28 PM »
lemme make ah small interjection here...now dat is the fellas(kickers+) ah know...come with facts or doh come at all.. ;)...
situation is, given the present organization, and processes, we may never know whether Wim could be a bess coach or not...so unless the real issues are fixed - tools, materials, crew- ie. organization and selection(staff & player),  we may never know, IMO. So what would be the eventual outcome ? and if we can mostly probably determine such, why wait for it to happen ?
Of course, it's all dependent on my opinion, but I have BeenE wrong before....cause I never factored in ah Birchall bullet    :devil:

Offline kicker

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2007, 12:32:45 PM »
lemme make ah small interjection here...now dat is the fellas(kickers+) ah know...come with facts or doh come at all.. ;)...
situation is, given the present organization, and processes, we may never know whether Wim could be a bess coach or not...so unless the real issues are fixed - tools, materials, crew- ie. organization and selection(staff & player),  we may never know, IMO. So what would be the eventual outcome ? and if we can mostly probably determine such, why wait for it to happen ?
Of course, it's all dependent on my opinion, but I have BeenE wrong before....cause I never factored in ah Birchall bullet    :devil:

Good post

Trini football is starved for success. We got a lil tease with Beenie, and Wim's tenure so far has been anti-climatic...so naturally men will focus some of their frustration on him, and question the questionables- his resume being one- but as you say, putting the Wim hate aside, and focusing on the big picture- Wim's  resume & resulting competence is a tear drop in the ocean of problems drowning our football- so much so that the difference (if any at all) that some add'l experience would have made to his competence would barely be seen without the other necessary tools in place.
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Offline fishs

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2007, 10:30:47 PM »

i want to make a point about this allusion to inexperienced coaches being qualified to do a job.. now this is my opinion and my theory feel free to bash me on it..

all them people mentioned, klinsmann, rijkaard, voeller, keane, dunga and i will add even stoichkov, hagi, sanchez have three things in common which wim does not..

1. first of all, these are former national players of a high pedigree with reputable standing, and it is that reputation that is the major selling point in going in that direction.. (especially when they didnt do no coaching courses).. It would be akin to us hiring latapy as our national coach knowing the kind of respect he would command from the players under him irregardless of his actual coaching abilities.. More often than not, the ability to gain that respect being a national hero (which is so much more difficult in this age of football where clubs rule - another discussion altogether) enables them the leeway to implement their philosophies without the opposition that a traditional local coach would get from a player coming back from a big club. 

2. secondly, these former national players are usually surrounded by a good supporting cast of coaches to handle the tactical side of things..  not saying that they dont have their ideas of how things should be done.. like how klinsmann had revolutionary ideas about training methods, or how dunga wanted to implement a different team ethic.. but they are hardly ever the master tacticians that do that sort of stuff behind the scenes.. I dont get the feeling that wim has that kind of supporting cast on his roster... jan van deinsen and anton corneal hardly count as master tacticians, and if we want to capitalize on our showing at the world cup and really be where we think we should be in world football, we need something better..

3. lastly, all them former players turn coaches allyuh call were some high pedigree players.. wim is a relative unheard-of in the history of the game..  in my opinion, the less you have done in your playing career, the more experience you should have as a coach to call upon to supplement your credentials.. that balance makes the best coaches.. example, mourinho and benitez never ball nowhere but had umpteen years coaching experience behind them before they became as good as they are today.. wim has neither a reputable coaching history or a reputable coaching career..

thats my thoughts..

Your first point- Just because you never heard of Wim doesn't mean he wasn't a quality player. Not all quality players are popular, especially those who played b4 the mass media & cable TV era....plus He played for Holland's nat'l team at a time when Holland were arguably the best in the world- he was on both WC runner up teams (74 & 78)- that eh no joke....

Second point- About the supporting cast- fair enough but if that's the argument, why we pointing fingers at Wim- why not point fingers at those who appointed his supporting cast?

Third point- Like I said, you calling Wim a relative unknown in his playing career is based on your ignorance of dutch domestic & Natl football in the 70's (their biggest era), and the fact that he didn't play in the cable TV era....his playing accomplishments appear to be greater than Latapy's (who you mentioned earlier)- and he began his coaching career in 1986- which is over 20 years ago.....does that qualify as upmteen to you?

You're not making much sense.....


first point... If i haven't heard about wim, its unlikely that those players representing the national team have heard of him either.. or heard of him sufficiently enough to rate him as someone deserving of that kind of respect afforded to a legendary player.. furthermore, my first point was about nationalistic respect due, and that his dutch and not trini nationality exempts him from this...

second point was not meant at all to point fingers at wim, but show that this is a key success factor for those ex-player miraculously turned coaches without qualifications...  and i dont think he has that cast.. with the right supporting cast, diego maradona could be a great coach u know!

third point... kicker.. our national players are not old and grey like you  ;D (j/k), most are born from 1980 onwards and by and large their knowledge of that era would probably not go much further than johann cruyff..... i'm willing to bet that my ignorance of dutch domestic and national football back then is theirs as well... it needs to be something they can identify with an is usually the case with the "ex-player coach" status types...

re: his coaching experience check the list. all them years he coaching only as an assistant or youth coach? Sorry but i think a team with world cup ambitions deserves better than that... Even our less endowed neighbors jamaica courting sven goran eriksson and other high calibre coaches...

see and try to understand my point that ex-players turn coaches, coach in their own countries where they have that status before you say i am not making any sesne..

Well said .

All this about sub standard players is stupidness. We have what we have.
Blaming the mess that is TTFF not getting us anywhere with qualifiers around the corner
What a coach that take on a job like this has to do is take the best that is available to him and bring them to a standard that makes them competitive.
All this coach has done in the past 15mths has shown me that he does not have the capacity to do that.
What Beenhakker did in the short time he was Trinidad coach was simple.
He identified where our weaknesses were and put in stop gap measures, he was also able to put belief of qualification into the squad.
His tactics were simple , get the team to concentrate and not concede the stupid early goals that made it difficult for them to come back from and put speed on the flanks with a holding mid field, no set of fancy football.
He achieved his mandate and moved on.
He did not lay any foundation for the standard of our football to improve because that was not his role and the timeframe he was involved for made that impossible.
This new coach has not done anything.
Where is his local core that understands and can effectively execute his style ?
You're not getting internationals however in the past you've refused to play citing team un preparedness.
URP is relevant .
Ah want de woman on de bass

Offline maxg

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Re: What is Wim coaching record?
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2007, 07:39:02 AM »
ah really doh see how yuh could compare BeenE and Wim's coaching technique, given, a significant difference of players and experiences. Let say BeenE did not have any of the players he had....Would we have been at the WC, regardless of *insert here- whoever yuh think is the best coach in the world* tactics, or concentrated program, or chance in hell, given any timeframe ?
nb. I purposely didn't ask" would BeenE have gotten us to the WC ?"

 

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