Just how good is Fabregas

[berris]

Van Persie better than Fabregas

better in wha ... cricket 

[dumpalewie]

Fabregas still not better than Iniesta

he put in a noteworthy performance on Sat, nobody cant deny that

He is better than Iniesta.

Not worth arguing over. Waste of time. Everyone will like different players. Right now Spain is going with Iniesta and Xavi, but these three midfielders are of the highest level and bring different things to the table. Another coach might select Fabregas. U can't go wrong with any of those three. But for me..Iniesta is just a little bit better. He was amazing this weekend too..another class performance. Spain really ahs some talent at central mid

 

The one quality I think Fabragas is developing which will take him past both Xavi & Iniesta is his defending ability. When Arsenal went to the CL final and played Juv along the way, I was really impressed with Fabragas against the likes of Viera. Since that he has improved each year in this department.

maybe..but don't underestimate Xavi and Iniesta's defending. If you watch Barca regulalrly you will know those fellas win a lot of battles in midfield. They both cover a lot of ground and don't get much recognition for it. breds..last season I even see Iniesta play a dread left back for Barca.

You obviously holding a candle for Iniesta. I agree with you that there is no point arguing as there is very little objectivity in the choice.

The one thing everyone said Fabregas was missing from his game was goals. He has added that spectacularly this year. That raises him above Iniesta for me.

Xavi is good defensively and is an excellent organizer. I give him the edge on Fabregas based on experience.

[spideybuff]

That is a recent popular myth about Wneger when it comes to age but he has held on to several players well past 30 years. Bergkamp was 36 when he retired ( he wasn’t pushed out), Adams also retired at the club (36), Keown went down a division at around 38 years and Pires left at 32 because he wanted more than a one year deal. Winterburn is a next one, 37 years when he went to West Ham.

Wenger does not care about age, he cares about value and production. What he is very good at is knowing what he has in his squad and gauging when he can afford to let a player go. He also knows that certain players

He will let a player in his prime go if
a) the money is very good (Vieira, Henry, Overmars, Petit),
b) he has able backups (Winterburn, Petit, Vieira),
c) he feels the player might be unsettled or thinks that he has outgrown the club (Vieira?, Henry?),
d) they just not good enough or just not doing it any more (Suker, Jeffers, Kanu, Parlour)

Wenger has an Econ degree and he is a very bright fella who looks at the club, not just today but down the road. If, as is quite possible, Fabregas is the best midfielder in the world at 30 and is happy at Arsenal and a club stalwart he will not be moved just because he is past 29. The man plays the best team available. Every time a player gets benched it is because there are better options available.

Well, i admit you have a viable point of view regarding the age thing but I believe that all those players were established Arsenal legends who Wenger met there. He could not just come and get rid of them because he was not yet established in the job and among the Arsenal fans.

Bergkamp may be the only exception to the rule but that was for two reasons- Henry was still being converted to a striker and Anelka leaving meant that there was no viable alternative to Bergkamp. However, in the end he was pushed out. If you recall, his last two years were spent as a bit part player, despite him being in his prime the season before that.

Same applies to Pires, Parlour and Ljunhberg...they were all riding pine once they turn the wrong side of 30, despite being key players the year before. Same way Gilberto Silva being treated now.

Overmars, Petit, Viera and Henry left while they were still guaranteed starters.

[jai john]

Fabregas still not better than Iniesta

he put in a noteworthy performance on Sat, nobody cant deny that

He is better than Iniesta.

Not worth arguing over. Waste of time. Everyone will like different players. Right now Spain is going with Iniesta and Xavi, but these three midfielders are of the highest level and bring different things to the table. Another coach might select Fabregas. U can't go wrong with any of those three. But for me..Iniesta is just a little bit better. He was amazing this weekend too..another class performance. Spain really ahs some talent at central mid

 

Ha ha ha !!! ... I like how you propose that Xavi and iniesta are better than fabregas and when challenged you say ...not worth arguing over !
In the meantime are we supposed to accept what you said or not ?
In my opinion Xavi and inesta are so far behind that their names wont even come up in the best player stakes.
Xavi is 27 iniesta is 23, fabregas is 20 ...yes 20 ! When are those two players going to exhale ? Let me ask you a question asked by another forumite .....if you had 30 million pounds to build a team which of these players would you buy and why ?...just me ..i like to know why people say the things they do ..part of my learning experience ..

[JDB]

Bergkamp may be the only exception to the rule but that was for two reasons- Henry was still being converted to a striker and Anelka leaving meant that there was no viable alternative to Bergkamp. However, in the end he was pushed out. If you recall, his last two years were spent as a bit part player, despite him being in his prime the season before that.

Bergkamp played just as many games in his last two seasons as he did in th etwo seasons before that, scored more goals too. He was never marginalized at Arsenal by anything other than the increasing influence of Henry. Wenger played him as often as he could.

Overmars, Petit, Viera and Henry left while they were still guaranteed starters.

Yeah but they left for big money. I don't think that you can say that age was the critical factor when a man is offering yuh 30 M for players like Overmars and Petit.

Same applies to Pires, Parlour and Ljunhberg...they were all riding pine once they turn the wrong side of 30, despite being key players the year before. Same way Gilberto Silva being treated now.

Question. Based on how Arsenal is playing now do you think that Gilberto is is being slighted? Is it not possible that Flamini and Fabregas are better options than Gilberto. Likewise for Ljungberg and Pires. Where are they now? I could understand if they were still playing better than the players who replaced them. Maybe then you could say that they get a Logan's Run but they are clearly worse than their replacements.

At the end of the day nobody knows Wenger's exact motivations but I think it is oversimplification to draw a correlation between age and how he treats players when form and competition for places are big factors in any decisionl.

[Filho]

Fabregas still not better than Iniesta

he put in a noteworthy performance on Sat, nobody cant deny that

He is better than Iniesta.

Not worth arguing over. Waste of time. Everyone will like different players. Right now Spain is going with Iniesta and Xavi, but these three midfielders are of the highest level and bring different things to the table. Another coach might select Fabregas. U can't go wrong with any of those three. But for me..Iniesta is just a little bit better. He was amazing this weekend too..another class performance. Spain really ahs some talent at central mid

 

Ha ha ha !!! ... I like how you propose that Xavi and iniesta are better than fabregas and when challenged you say ...not worth arguing over !
In the meantime are we supposed to accept what you said or not ?
In my opinion Xavi and inesta are so far behind that their names wont even come up in the best player stakes.
Xavi is 27 iniesta is 23, fabregas is 20 ...yes 20 ! When are those two players going to exhale ? Let me ask you a question asked by another forumite .....if you had 30 million pounds to build a team which of these players would you buy and why ?...just me ..i like to know why people say the things they do ..part of my learning experience ..

Nope..just saying that I know it's only my opinion. Whatever I say about Xavi and Iniesta probably won't change anyone's mind. I just didn't want to get into a prolonged back and forth. All I am saying is..this is my opinion..and I respect yours. Not even going to overly try to convince anyone of mine and I accept where others coming from. Plus..I wasn't 'challenged'..Dumpalewie was responding to someone else. I just intervened to say..good points all..no point in arguing over a matter of opinion for players that are all pretty high level.

As for the 30million pound question..that relates to value. Given Fabregas and Iniesta's age with respect to their abillity..on can argue they are more valuable than the older Xavi..and it is probably worth spending more money on them. But does that mean they are better than Xavi now? Not necessarily. What you pay for a player not only includes how good they are now..but what their potential is in the future. I was only saying that Iniesta and Xavi are better now (imo). You are talking about something completely different when you ask the question of wht you will pay for a player...unless you are only interested in winning titles immediately 

Now you say that you like to know people's reason for saying things. yet you give none. Now the only reason you've given is their ages and implied that you'd spend more money on Fabregas than the other 2 (which I think we can agree does not really address the relative merits of the players today.but what their long tern value would be) Mine are based on performances for club and country. I admit I am a Barca fan and watch them a lot more than Arsenal. I also think all 3 players are the same level and was being a bit tongue in cheek (another reason why I'm trying not to make this into a big Xavi vs Iniesta v Fabregas). On any given day any one of them could walk into the Spanish national team lineup. My preferences for one over the other are minute. Iniesta and Xavi are also keeping Iniesta off the Spanish national team at the oment...so they're probably not as far behind as you like to think.

respeck 

[jai john]

Fabregas still not better than Iniesta

he put in a noteworthy performance on Sat, nobody cant deny that

He is better than Iniesta.

Not worth arguing over. Waste of time. Everyone will like different players. Right now Spain is going with Iniesta and Xavi, but these three midfielders are of the highest level and bring different things to the table. Another coach might select Fabregas. U can't go wrong with any of those three. But for me..Iniesta is just a little bit better. He was amazing this weekend too..another class performance. Spain really ahs some talent at central mid

 

Ha ha ha !!! ... I like how you propose that Xavi and iniesta are better than fabregas and when challenged you say ...not worth arguing over !
In the meantime are we supposed to accept what you said or not ?
In my opinion Xavi and inesta are so far behind that their names wont even come up in the best player stakes.
Xavi is 27 iniesta is 23, fabregas is 20 ...yes 20 ! When are those two players going to exhale ? Let me ask you a question asked by another forumite .....if you had 30 million pounds to build a team which of these players would you buy and why ?...just me ..i like to know why people say the things they do ..part of my learning experience ..

Nope..just saying that I know it's only my opinion. Whatever I say about Xavi and Iniesta probably won't change anyone's mind. I just didn't want to get into a prolonged back and forth. All I am saying is..this is my opinion..and I respect yours. Not even going to overly try to convince anyone of mine and I accept where others coming from. Plus..I wasn't 'challenged'..Dumpalewie was responding to someone else. I just intervened to say..good points all..no point in arguing over a matter of opinion for players that are all pretty high level.

As for the 30million pound question..that relates to value. Given Fabregas and Iniesta's age with respect to their abillity..on can argue they are more valuable than the older Xavi..and it is probably worth spending more money on them. But does that mean they are better than Xavi now? Not necessarily. What you pay for a player not only includes how good they are now..but what their potential is in the future. I was only saying that Iniesta and Xavi are better now (imo). You are talking about something completely different when you ask the question of wht you will pay for a player...unless you are only interested in winning titles immediately 

fair enough...I dont rate those two as highly as you do but that does not mean that they are not good players. Age is not the only factor in deciding however and I just mentioned it to show that the others have had a bit more time to establish themselves as great players.
I am not an Arsenal fan, but I admire great players and for me fabregas just seems to be getting better every year. someone mentioned that he has added goalscoring to his reputation but what may not be known is that he arrived at barcelona...yes the three are all from barca, as a goalscorer. maybe he is now just getting the freedom to do what he did as a young player.
I dont say he is the best in the world ..who is ? ..but I would certainly keep a close watch on him the next time the pollsters come around.

[jai john]

Barça Consider Xavi Sale, AS Report
 
FC Barcelona could be considering selling Xavi Hernández next summer in order to pave the way for a major move for Cesc Fàbregas, accord to AS.
 

 
zoom - galleria The outlandish story from the Madrid-biased paper claims that the Blaugrana are unimpressed with the Spanish international's drop in form and they could off-load him.

According to the report, technical secretary Txiki Begiristain has been advocating selling the homegrown playmaker as he feels that he has lost some of his sparkle.

Club president Joan Laporta has always been angered by seeing Fàbregas leave the club and is intent on bringing him back.

AS claim that an agreement, signed by former vice-president Sandro Rosell, gives the Blaugrana first refusal on the Arsenal midfielder if he ever decides he wants to leave north London.

Xavi has been a regular in the Barça side for several seasons, but Begiristain is concerned that he is no longer the driving force he once was.

With Andrés Iniesta impressing in various positions, the Catalan outfit have a ready-made replacement, but want Fàbregas to come back to be the creator in their side.

The story goes completely against Begiristain's statement earlier this month that the club would be unwilling to spend millions on a player that opted to leave them.

Lucas Brown


Now this is interesting isn't it ?

[Filho]

Barça Consider Xavi Sale, AS Report
 
FC Barcelona could be considering selling Xavi Hernández next summer in order to pave the way for a major move for Cesc Fàbregas, accord to AS.
 

 
zoom - galleria The outlandish story from the Madrid-biased paper claims that the Blaugrana are unimpressed with the Spanish international's drop in form and they could off-load him.

According to the report, technical secretary Txiki Begiristain has been advocating selling the homegrown playmaker as he feels that he has lost some of his sparkle.

Club president Joan Laporta has always been angered by seeing Fàbregas leave the club and is intent on bringing him back.

AS claim that an agreement, signed by former vice-president Sandro Rosell, gives the Blaugrana first refusal on the Arsenal midfielder if he ever decides he wants to leave north London.

Xavi has been a regular in the Barça side for several seasons, but Begiristain is concerned that he is no longer the driving force he once was.

With Andrés Iniesta impressing in various positions, the Catalan outfit have a ready-made replacement, but want Fàbregas to come back to be the creator in their side.

The story goes completely against Begiristain's statement earlier this month that the club would be unwilling to spend millions on a player that opted to leave them.

Lucas Brown


Now this is interesting isn't it ?

very interesting..you know how long I saying Fabregas needs to come back home. When Henry left, I though Fabregas might get disillusioned and want to leave. he even said that at some point he wants to return to Barca. Home is where the heart is. But for now..Arsenal not letting him og anywhere. He's a big player who should have never escaped, but he made a brilliant choice and is a much better player having gotten the experience he has at Arsenal. At Barca..he would not have broken into the side as quickly... as he himself admits..that's why he made the move to london. Arsenal would do everything to keep him and this article sounds very specualtive...But if its true..I still don't see Barca selling Xavi. Deco..on the oher hand..... 

[fishs]

Van Persie better than Fabregas

better in wha ... cricket 

I will bookmark this thread when Van Persie come back to full fitness and could put together a string of 10 to 15 games , I'll bring this back up to rub yuh stupid question in yuh face.