Pele says England is starved of good players

[real madness]

Pele says England underachieves because it is starved of good players
 
By ROB HARRIS, Associated Press Writer
November 7, 2007
yahoo.com

SHEFFIELD, England (AP) -- Pele believes England is too quick to blame its managers for underachieving -- instead of admitting that the soccer-mad country is starved of talent.

The national team's only major triumph remains the 1966 World Cup, which it hosted.

 
Last month's defeat in Russia hurt its qualifying for the European Championships and may force England to miss its first major tournament since the 1994 World Cup.

Manager Steve McClaren is fighting for his future after 15 months at the job. England needs help from Israel against Russia on Nov. 17 and has to beat Croatia four days later at Wembley Stadium.

"England has few very good players," three-time World Cup winner Pele said on Wednesday. "When those players get injured in a tough, long tournament they don't have a player to replace them -- that is the big problem in England.

"Unlike other countries, Brazil in particular, you don't have many choices when either players are off form or not playing well."

He insists McClaren isn't at fault.

"It's normal all over the world that the coach is always the one who people blame when results don't go well," Pele said. "You have to see the whole process, not just the management."

Pele points to his country's failure to reach the knockout phase of the 1982 World Cup.

"Brazil had the best team, was fantastic with excellent players, and lost the World Cup," he said. "The coach is not the real problem. When things start to go badly, the team doesn't work well, sometimes it's tough to change."

England's so-called "golden generation," featuring the talents of David Beckham and Michael Owen, has gone out at the quarterfinals at the 2002 and 2006 World Cups, and Euro 2004, under Sven-Goran Eriksson.

Pele was in northern England to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the world's first soccer club, Sheffield FC. The amateur side plays Inter Milan in a friendly on Thursday.

 

[real madness]

I don't usually agree with Pele, he is known for talking shit but he makes a lot of sense in this article.

[Disgruntled_Trini]

Pele says England underachieves because it is starved of good players
 

I could ah tell England that

[Toppa]

Pele says England underachieves because it is starved of good players
 

I could ah tell England that

lol

[Filho]

Disagree to some extent

Yes..people are too quick to blame managers, and yes..England doesn't have the most talented squad, but England has more than enough good players to win trophies. If Greece could win a Euro Championship....England could win one. Pele has a point but it's way too simple..otherwise teams like Holland and Spain trophy cabinet wouldn't be so bare

[jai john]

Disagree to some extent

Yes..people are too quick to blame managers, and yes..England doesn't have the most talented squad, but England has more than enough good players to win trophies. If Greece could win a Euro Championship....England could win one. Pele has a point but it's way too simple..otherwise teams like Holland and Spain trophy cabinet wouldn't be so bare

You will admit that Greece benefitted from having the best rested team in that particular tournament where major contenders had overworked players..... I agree that the most talented squad does not always win as pele described so it is possible to win without that but quite honestly until england start playing to win rather than not to lose they wont get different results !

[Observer]

Disagree to some extent

Yes..people are too quick to blame managers, and yes..England doesn't have the most talented squad, but England has more than enough good players to win trophies. If Greece could win a Euro Championship....England could win one. Pele has a point but it's way too simple..otherwise teams like Holland and Spain trophy cabinet wouldn't be so bare

Holland, Spain, USSR, Denmark and yes Greece have all won the Euro. What is interesting is that outside of the 66 WC. England has not even made it into a final (game) for the Euro or WC. As Filho said it is not as simple as Pele makes it out to be. Look at Italy they have won far more WC's that Euro. They only won one Euro. IMHO the Euro is probably an easier tournament to win.
When I look at football on an International stage (tournament format), I look for consistency, not simply whom has won it. After all only 7 countries have ever won the WC (so we can't say everybody else is shit). Tournament football has a knock out stage, which makes it a different animal, we all know anything can happen in one game. So I look at the final 4 and when you do that you see far more consistency from some Nations. Countries like Germany, Brazil, Italy know how to play Tournament football, to some extent we could list Argentina, France & Holland in that. These countries always seem to be knocking and only Holland of the group seem to always loss dem keys. England have no consistency in their football and quite frankly I do not think they travel well. This is a big factor in Tournament play. Then again most people will say England players are over hyped due to the exposure of their League and on a World stage (International) are always found not good enough.

[MATADOR]

Taking into context what Pele said, this question comes to mind....Apart from Brazil, what other country have the depth?

[andre samuel]

Starved of good players?

That is some serious shit talk!!

How did England lose in WC 1998..............Penalties to Argentina (Beckham sent off)

How did England lose in WC 2002..............to Brazil 2-1 when Seaman conceeded Ronaldinho's fluke cross-ball/shot

How did England lose in EURO 2004....... Penalties to Portugal

How did England lose in WC 2006,.......Penalties to Portugal again!

What does this have to do with being starved of good players?

David Beckham, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, and Wayne Rooney could walk into any starting X1 in world football.

In my opinion, England just unlucky!! The same thing applies to Spain!

ah love it!!

Maybe it is a consequence of having the best leagues in the world??

[jr sams]

Starved of good players?

That is some serious shit talk!!

How did England lose in WC 1998..............Penalties to Argentina (Beckham sent off)

How did England lose in WC 2002..............to Brazil 2-1 when Seaman conceeded Ronaldinho's fluke cross-ball/shot

How did England lose in EURO 2004....... Penalties to Portugal

How did England lose in WC 2006,.......Penalties to Portugal again!


ah love it!!

Maybe it is a consequence of having the best leagues in the world??

I will also add WCP 1990 when they lost on pks in the semis to Germany.
I have always thought that team was one of the better ones England produced...they had good balance with Paul Parker, Des Walker in defense, Waddle, Bryan Robson, Gazza in mid, Platt, Beardsley, Barnes up front and Shelton in net....just to name a few.

[kiffysmooth]

And Trinidad belly full with talent....we have players in every top division in de world except Latin America and Italy.  On paper we suppose to have one ah de baddest sides and we doh win nutting.  Anyway, de Pele say England, he cyah come rong TnT wid dah chupid talk.  
And Andre, ah disagree wid yuh statement bout any ah dem fellas could walk on any team and make dey starting eleven.  Me aint too it impress wid Ferdinand, nydah wit some ah dem odder brodders yuh call.  Ah understand England must be yuh side, but jes imagine dah team had was to rob TnT in de world cup to win we.  Me doh rate dem Englanians ah tall.  Mr. Pele I agree with yuh statement

[dinho]

Starved of good players?

That is some serious shit talk!!

How did England lose in WC 1998..............Penalties to Argentina (Beckham sent off)

How did England lose in WC 2002..............to Brazil 2-1 when Seaman conceeded Ronaldinho's fluke cross-ball/shot

How did England lose in EURO 2004....... Penalties to Portugal

How did England lose in WC 2006,.......Penalties to Portugal again!

What does this have to do with being starved of good players?

David Beckham, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, and Wayne Rooney could walk into any starting X1 in world football.

In my opinion, England just unlucky!! The same thing applies to Spain!

ah love it!!

Maybe it is a consequence of having the best leagues in the world??

andre look gih we a break with that talk please..

if anything at all, everything you say there just serve to reinforce just how shitty that side is..

Like one person said before, that team plays not to lose rather than to win a game. Every single tournament ends with them not being able to outright beat a side and losing or going to penalties. I have seen games where they just take the foot off the pedal in extra time and resign to the lottery of penalty kicks. For me, this is unacceptable for a side claiming to be some kinda force in world football..

I like how you talk about the seaman error against brazil in WC2002, but conveniently omit the fact that ronaldinho was sent off with some good time left on the clock and they could not even muster 1 single shot on goal.. Also, exactly which game in the ENTIRE WC2006 did anything to support their claim to being a good team? maybe you need to pull a tape of england vs ecuador and try to rate them after that..

the team is shitty live with it. they only ever produce good defenders and that is because robots play well in defence. other than that, they lack natural skill which is key in international ball.. when last you watch an england game? you always know exactly what a player going to do when in possession. Either pass to the nearest man or boom kick up the road.. predictable!!

furthermore dont be fooled by the different game that is premiership football.. dem players you call there will not "walk" into any international side.. And any team which sees Peter Crouch as a viable option for a starting forward could only really be a pretender to the throne..

[Observer]

And Trinidad belly full with talent....we have players in every top division in de world except Latin America and Italy.  On paper we suppose to have one ah de baddest sides and we doh win nutting.  Anyway, de Pele say England, he cyah come rong TnT wid dah chupid talk.  
And Andre, ah disagree wid yuh statement bout any ah dem fellas could walk on any team and make dey starting eleven.  Me aint too it impress wid Ferdinand, nydah wit some ah dem odder brodders yuh call.  Ah understand England must be yuh side, but jes imagine dah team had was to rob TnT in de world cup to win we.  Me doh rate dem Englanians ah tall.  Mr. Pele I agree with yuh statement

Which Trini players in Spain, France, Portugal and Germany?

[Disgruntled_Trini]

Disagree to some extent

Yes..people are too quick to blame managers, and yes..England doesn't have the most talented squad, but England has more than enough good players to win trophies. If Greece could win a Euro Championship....England could win one. Pele has a point but it's way too simple..otherwise teams like Holland and Spain trophy cabinet wouldn't be so bare

Greece never expected to win anything in that tournament especially playing against the hosts in the finals

England does expect to win everything, going into a competition all yuh does hear about is Beckham and he shit and if Gerrard and Lampard could play in the same midfield. SO much so I feel they does believe the hype that the media does create

as I say from day 1
England - One set ah name and no game

[Coop's]

Starved of good players?

That is some serious shit talk!!

How did England lose in WC 1998..............Penalties to Argentina (Beckham sent off)

How did England lose in WC 2002..............to Brazil 2-1 when Seaman conceeded Ronaldinho's fluke cross-ball/shot

How did England lose in EURO 2004....... Penalties to Portugal

How did England lose in WC 2006,.......Penalties to Portugal again!

What does this have to do with being starved of good players?

David Beckham, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, and Wayne Rooney could walk into any starting X1 in world football.

In my opinion, England just unlucky!! The same thing applies to Spain!

ah love it!!

Maybe it is a consequence of having the best leagues in the world??

       First of i want all to know England is one of the teams i like for many reasons,having said that when we look at the history of English Football i don't think we can continue to say they are unlucky any more,i agree with the Poster that said they play not to loose,their style of play is too defensive,it's the only team i see who style have not changed/updated to meet the demands of the modern game,they are still very predictable,the players mentioned here are they that good or are they good because we see/hear about them every day.

[JDB]

Andre yuh way off base there.

I backing ENgland long time and I will tell yuh that all them penalty kick departures don't reflect well for England.

if antything it makes them a shittier team to think that they can't kick penalties over and over again.

At the end of the day you might say that teams don't beat England but you can definitely say that England does not beat good teams when it matters.

Also Lampard, Gerrard, Rio and Beckham not walking into nobody side, they will be competitive but not head and shoulders above th eplayers from other big nations.

[Filho]

England has more than enough talent to win big trophies. They have to do a few things differently, get a little luckier maybe..but it's not like the talent is not there.

I think the biggest problem is their football culture. The last time England had a genuine playmaker with freedom to flourish was Gascoigne and with him they made it to the semifinals of the WC and the European Championship, both times losing to the eventual winners Germany, on penalties after outplaying them in regular time both tournaments.

There is the problem..the truly creative, unpredictable talents aren't allowed to develop. Take Joe Cole..only in England could a Frank Lampard or Steve Gerrard (excellent players on their day) be considered better than Cole. The swiahbuckling hard tackling type of player is nurtured and allowed to reach the top of their game. If Cole was born anywhere else he would be the #10 in any side he played and given freedom to dribble, pass, shoot. Instead is one set a negative press and bench until he does enough donkey work. Some may disagree, but Joe Cole is the kind of player England needs to value and develop more. If Ronaldinho or Robinho were born in England..they might never have made it. Dribble too much, don't get stuck in..yadda yadda. But you need oe or two players like that who could turn a game..even if it looked like they didn't do too much fr the remaining 90 minutes. A man who kill himself running up and down the pitch for 90 minutes and produce nutten valued more than a man who pick his spots and tally.

I know I am simplifying things..but they panic when they see a defender run upfield with a ball...panic if you are a dribbler and not playing on the wing. They marvel when a Brazilian, Argentine, Spaniard etc..does it, but they coach dat out of their players from the earlies, not realizing is that type of player that other teams developing to beat them at every tournament. Yeah, you need balance, but England hadda get more courage with their 'flair' players.

[dwn]

i think the problem is that the expectations put on england's team by the media is too high. and many people fall for the media hype. their players may be good enough to win major tournaments, but that doesnt mean theyre good enough to be expected to win each major tournament they compete in.

Every single tournament ends with them not being able to outright beat a side and losing or going to penalties.

thats pretty much the case for any team that doesnt win the tournament  

And Trinidad belly full with talent....we have players in every top division in de world except Latin America and Italy.  On paper we suppose to have one ah de baddest sides

on paper trinidad has talent - from a trinidadians persepective. on a worldwide scale not quite.
thats cause we know and have grown up watching all of our players. but ask alot of football fans to put down our team on paper and many of them (and i mean those who dont follow the uk leagues) probably wont get much further than yorke. maybe things have changed a little since the world cup. but i would bet that most spanish or italian football fans dont know who avery john or silvio spann etc is.

[Deeks]

Good Evening Guys,
                           Good point Coops. Yesterday I was reading the blog on Man U victory against the Russian team. Quite a few people on that forum was castigating Ronaldo for trying to much trickery. Well, to me that goes to say why England do not produce skillful players. This so called "trickery" displayed by Ronaldo is some of the intangibles that great players possess that enable a team to win a close game. England don't have that type of players. If they do, they stifle them. Osgood, Hudson, Platt, Gascoigne was an exception, had a hard time pleasing their managers. Can Walcott, Wright-Philips develop to be skillful players. Only time will tell.

[Toppa]

England has more than enough talent to win big trophies. They have to do a few things differently, get a little luckier maybe..but it's not like the talent is not there.

I think the biggest problem is their football culture. The last time England had a genuine playmaker with freedom to flourish was Gascoigne and with him they made it to the semifinals of the WC and the European Championship, both times losing to the eventual winners Germany, on penalties after outplaying them in regular time both tournaments.

There is the problem..the truly creative, unpredictable talents aren't allowed to develop. Take Joe Cole..only in England could a Frank Lampard or Steve Gerrard (excellent players on their day) be considered better than Cole. The swiahbuckling hard tackling type of player is nurtured and allowed to reach the top of their game. If Cole was born anywhere else he would be the #10 in any side he played and given freedom to dribble, pass, shoot. Instead is one set a negative press and bench until he does enough donkey work. Some may disagree, but Joe Cole is the kind of player England needs to value and develop more. If Ronaldinho or Robinho were born in England..they might never have made it. Dribble too much, don't get stuck in..yadda yadda. But you need oe or two players like that who could turn a game..even if it looked like they didn't do too much fr the remaining 90 minutes. A man who kill himself running up and down the pitch for 90 minutes and produce nutten valued more than a man who pick his spots and tally.

I know I am simplifying things..but they panic when they see a defender run upfield with a ball...panic if you are a dribbler and not playing on the wing. They marvel when a Brazilian, Argentine, Spaniard etc..does it, but they coach dat out of their players from the earlies, not realizing is that type of player that other teams developing to beat them at every tournament. Yeah, you need balance, but England hadda get more courage with their 'flair' players.

Hmmmmm...makes sense.

[Bakes]

I don't usually agree with Pele, he is known for talking shit but he makes a lot of sense in this article.

If they 'starved for talent' then how the hell can they be underachieving?  Pele talking ah pack ah ass dey.

[giggsy11]

Taking into context what Pele said, this question comes to mind....Apart from Brazil, what other country have the depth?

I think Portugal, Spain and Holland has depth.

[Deeks]

Pele just saying that they lack skillful players. All yuh know that, too.

[Bakes]

De man call dem "Englanians" yes...

[giggsy11]

In my humble opinion I think England has become to reliant on certain players and they have lacked coaching that place players in systems that expliot their strengths. I also think that England has not done a good job of cultivating creative players and most of their players are overated and one dementional and as a result there unrealistic expectatons and they play one dementional football. PS I am a supporter of England among other countries but they play the most boring arse football! Who the frick builds their attack around a girafe like Crouch? Who, England does

[freakazoid]

after long deliberation and after 2 pack ah nuts and an bockle ah malta............i come to the conclusion that england needs ah penalty kicking coach

How did England lose in WC 1998..............Penalties to Argentina (Beckham sent off)

How did England lose in WC 2002..............to Brazil 2-1 when Seaman conceeded Ronaldinho's fluke cross-ball/shot

How did England lose in EURO 2004....... Penalties to Portugal

How did England lose in WC 2006,.......Penalties to Portugal again!

What does this have to do with being starved of good players?

David Beckham, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, and Wayne Rooney could walk into any starting X1 in world football.

In my opinion, England just unlucky!! The same thing applies to Spain!

ah love it!!

Maybe it is a consequence of having the best leagues in the world??

[Filho]

Taking into context what Pele said, this question comes to mind....Apart from Brazil, what other country have the depth?

Quite a few, even if the 2nd stringers aren't household names. But the most obvious is Argentina.
And England has depth...remember how well the team played when injury and suspensions hit the squad in recent Euro qualifying. Guys like Micah Richards, Gareth Barry & Emile Heskey look better than the guys they replaced. England has no problem with depth, at least not relative to most of their peers

[dinho]

Taking into context what Pele said, this question comes to mind....Apart from Brazil, what other country have the depth?

Quite a few, even if the 2nd stringers aren't household names. But the most obvious is Argentina.
And England has depth...remember how well the team played when injury and suspensions hit the squad in recent Euro qualifying. Guys like Micah Richards, Gareth Barry & Emile Heskey look better than the guys they replaced. England has no problem with depth, at least not relative to most of their peers

filho..

allyuh does let these estonia and slovakia fixtures fool allyuh up yes..

Micah richards i agree with, but it will take just one quality side to show up gareth barry and emile heskey as average players..

let england lose one of ashley cole, joe cole, wayne rooney, michael owen or paul robinson and you will see just how much depth dem have..

[real madness]

I don't usually agree with Pele, he is known for talking shit but he makes a lot of sense in this article.

If they 'starved for talent' then how the hell can they be underachieving?  Pele talking ah pack ah ass dey.

yeah that is ah oxymoron fuh real..but according to the article he said there is talent for the starting eleven but outside of that eleven they are short of capable replacements if players are injured...and based on the starting elevn they should be winning more..just my interpretation..i could be wrong.

[real madness]

i have seen english sides since 1986 and 2 best sides i have seen were the 1986 and 1990 world cup teams..since then they are outright shit...no playmaker since gascoigne..gerard and lampard are excellent league players but have never shined at a major international tournament..as someone said they play to not lose than play to win, that mentality doesn't lead to success in most cases...i wouldnt go as far as saying there is no talented English players but they are in dire need of a match winner..whether it be a forward (i.e. Lineker) or midfielder (gascoigne, Bryan Robson).