Goalkick question

[soupman]

Sorry if this question has an obvious answer. I have seen a few games now where a goal kick was given and instead of the goalkeeper kicking the ball the task was delegated to another player. Is there any consistent reason for this approach to goal kicks or is it just subject to the the specific circumstances related to the situation (eg. keeper pull a muscle and can't launch the ball as far -- or something like that).  Just wondering.

[Football supporter]

Hi Soupman

Just as you summised, usually the keeper takes the kicks, unless he's injured. However, in some cases, keepers can't kick as far, or as accurately as an outfield player. This is most often the case when a manager wants to play a long ball game, or consistently reach a target man.

[soupman]

Thanks FPATT. Your response is doubly interesting as it challenges an assumption I made about goalkeepers. It always seemed, from observation during matches and the specialized nature of the position that goalkeepers would tend to be the best "long ballers" on the team. I guess now that I think about it some may be more concerned about developing other aspects of their game such as cross interception or  dealing with 1 v 1 situations. At any rate I am glad to get an answer to a question that I have been meaning to ask for some time.

[JDB]

Thanks FPATT. Your response is doubly interesting as it challenges an assumption I made about goalkeepers. It always seemed, from observation during matches and the specialized nature of the position that goalkeepers would tend to be the best "long ballers" on the team. I guess now that I think about it some may be more concerned about developing other aspects of their game such as cross interception or  dealing with 1 v 1 situations. At any rate I am glad to get an answer to a question that I have been meaning to ask for some time.

It is not something that you see a lot at pro level because the best goalkeepers in the world will work on their kicking.

But a lower level it is very common. I remember SSFL plenty teams used to have centre-backs taking kicks because goalkeepers just couldn't kick as well.

[Bakes]

Thanks FPATT. Your response is doubly interesting as it challenges an assumption I made about goalkeepers. It always seemed, from observation during matches and the specialized nature of the position that goalkeepers would tend to be the best "long ballers" on the team. I guess now that I think about it some may be more concerned about developing other aspects of their game such as cross interception or  dealing with 1 v 1 situations. At any rate I am glad to get an answer to a question that I have been meaning to ask for some time.

It is not something that you see a lot at pro level because the best goalkeepers in the world will work on their kicking.

But a lower level it is very common. I remember SSFL plenty teams used to have centre-backs taking kicks because goalkeepers just couldn't kick as well.

...or just look at the women's game, in the recently concluded Womens' Cup Nigeria had their center back take the goal kicks because she had a stronger leg.

[Deeks]

Up to the 60's I remember the "backs" use to kick all the goal kicks. Then after 1970, as the game advance goalies started to take goalkicks most of the time. Now it would be weird to see the backs take goal kicks unless something wrong with keeper kicking foot.

[soupman]

I did not realize it was such a common practice outside the top-level or men's game. I only saw it once (that I can recall) by USA in USA v Brazil in the U-20 WC. 

[dinho]

I did not realize it was such a common practice outside the top-level or men's game. I only saw it once (that I can recall) by USA in USA v Brazil in the U-20 WC. 

you will see this practice less and less, the higher you go up in standard of the football..

ie. in the top professional leagues, in addition to being a good shot stopper, a goalkeeper has to be able to kick the ball long from a dead spot (goal kick), accurately to a teammate, and also using both feet with equal comfort.. also the keeper has to be able to clear the ball using both feet when under pressure.. They work hard on this in training, because a goalkeeper's distribution can be a big asset in kickstarting plays and keeping possession..

As you go down the rung however, you will find goalkeepers' specialty is shotstopping, with all the other things being of less importance.. So you might find a keeper could only kick the ball long with one foot and not so accurate either.. or you might find he kicking out the ball, but only just crossing half line and it not falling where he want it.. and then on the lower levels, a keeper just mightn't be a great kicker of the ball so the next thing is to let the most big foot man in the defence take the goal kick (usually one of the stoppers), if you want the maximum distance on the kick..

So thats why you probably hardly see that if you accustom watching ball on TV.. goalkeepers would only really give up that right nowadays if they carrying an injury, cause other than that, they practice kicking so much that they are prob one of the best distance kickers on the team anyway..

[spideybuff]

I actually learned through a british coach i once had that the reason the goalie kicks the ball is so that you have more bodies forward. Having a defender that far back when the ball lands is redundant because the keeper is already covering that area.

[dinho]

I actually learned through a british coach i once had that the reason the goalie kicks the ball is so that you have more bodies forward. Having a defender that far back when the ball lands is redundant because the keeper is already covering that area.

true...

also if the ball is headed back towards goal by the opposing team, the kicking defender would be keeping everyone onside...

[FLi !]

I actually learned through a british coach i once had that the reason the goalie kicks the ball is so that you have more bodies forward. Having a defender that far back when the ball lands is redundant because the keeper is already covering that area.

Speaking of which, I tell u i met up with coach up here ? lol, very random.  Memories yes

[jr sams]

Keeping the attackers onside.....that, I think, is the greatest risk when a defender takes the goal kick

[soupman]

Good point about keeping the opposing team onside. Here is one for the goalkeeping experts. Given the range of skills and the experience that is usually necessary to create a top class keeper, is it harder for a manager to land a decent goalkeeper or a prolific striker? It very often seems that the goalkeepers are harder to come by. The England setup is one example where I remember reading something about there being no obvious successor to Robinson and for all the tinkering to the team (possibly more by necessity than anything . . . but still) there was no attempt to give James or anyone else a chance. Is Robinson really the best keeper England can field?

[spideybuff]

I actually learned through a british coach i once had that the reason the goalie kicks the ball is so that you have more bodies forward. Having a defender that far back when the ball lands is redundant because the keeper is already covering that area.

Speaking of which, I tell u i met up with coach up here ? lol, very random.  Memories yes

Dolly had tell me that...he was driving a bus or something? Or that was another story?

[Touches]

Good point about keeping the opposing team onside. Here is one for the goalkeeping experts. Given the range of skills and the experience that is usually necessary to create a top class keeper, is it harder for a manager to land a decent goalkeeper or a prolific striker? It very often seems that the goalkeepers are harder to come by. The England setup is one example where I remember reading something about there being no obvious successor to Robinson and for all the tinkering to the team (possibly more by necessity than anything . . . but still) there was no attempt to give James or anyone else a chance. Is Robinson really the best keeper England can field?

Soupman...whats the record transfer fee for a Striker?

Whats the record fee for a Goalkeeper?

Therein lies your answer.

[Feliziano]

like allyuh fellas behaving allyuh selves since Supa threaten to fire some 'bullate' or what?

Soupman yuh lucky yuh didn't ask this question sometime in October cause ah sure some ah them people here woulda try to shit up the new posters as always 

anyways welcome 

[soupman]

Thanks for the welcome.

Going from this info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_(football)#Highest_transfer_fees

It looks like strikers by £2.9m.

[Trini]

while we on the question vibes - what if yr keeper takes a goalkick short to one of the wingbacks just outside the box, but the opposing striker run in real fast and attempting to get the ball before it reach the defender, OUTSIDE the penalty box (which is the law for goal kicks) - if the striker touches the ball before the defender (the touche occurs INSIDE THE BOX), is it still normal gameplay? Or will the ref blow?
(And imagine i play intercol school football for 6 years and intramural in the US for 2) 
And I take nuff goalkick when i play defense and the keeper injured...just never short ones

[Coop's]

while we on the question vibes - what if yr keeper takes a goalkick short to one of the wingbacks just outside the box, but the opposing striker run in real fast and attempting to get the ball before it reach the defender, OUTSIDE the penalty box (which is the law for goal kicks) - if the striker touches the ball before the defender (the touche occurs INSIDE THE BOX), is it still normal gameplay? Or will the ref blow?
(And imagine i play intercol school football for 6 years and intramural in the US for 2) 
And I take nuff goalkick when i play defense and the keeper injured...just never short ones

        The Referee will blow the kick has to be retaken.

[FF]

while we on the question vibes - what if yr keeper takes a goalkick short to one of the wingbacks just outside the box, but the opposing striker run in real fast and attempting to get the ball before it reach the defender, OUTSIDE the penalty box (which is the law for goal kicks) - if the striker touches the ball before the defender (the touche occurs INSIDE THE BOX), is it still normal gameplay? Or will the ref blow?
(And imagine i play intercol school football for 6 years and intramural in the US for 2) 
And I take nuff goalkick when i play defense and the keeper injured...just never short ones

        The Referee will blow the kick has to be retaken.

That is correct.. the ball must leave the area before it is in play from a goal kick

[dinho]

Good point about keeping the opposing team onside. Here is one for the goalkeeping experts. Given the range of skills and the experience that is usually necessary to create a top class keeper, is it harder for a manager to land a decent goalkeeper or a prolific striker? It very often seems that the goalkeepers are harder to come by. The England setup is one example where I remember reading something about there being no obvious successor to Robinson and for all the tinkering to the team (possibly more by necessity than anything . . . but still) there was no attempt to give James or anyone else a chance. Is Robinson really the best keeper England can field?

soupman... its harder to find keepers but that ent no easy question...

pricewise, strikers will always be the most expensive position because the simple fact of the matter is that goals win games.. Its also why on any list of best players, and accolades, yuh hardly find defenders and goalkeepers making it..

As for finding a good keeper, to me its different in different countries.. If you check out Italy, they seem to always produce good keepers across the board... Over there, is only recently yuh seeing foreign keepers getting signed, but they have a host of goalkeeping talent and its never a problem position for Italy. Right now they have Buffon, Toldo, Abbiati, De Sanctis, Ballotta all of whom could get a bligh and real safe between the sticks...

On the other hand, goalkeeping always seems to be a problem for England.. After Paul Robinson and David James (both substandard keepers), you have Scott Carson and Ben Foster who not even worthy of a squad place at their original clubs seeing as they got loaned out.. And that ent recent, cause I dont think they had a good keeper since Shilton (i dont rate seaman). But on the other hand, England always produces some great central defenders..

I think there are genetic/cultural reasons as to why some countries traditionally produce better players in certain positions (Spain - central mids, Portugal - Wingers, England - central defenders, USA - keepers, Trinidad - Forwards), although i admit that in itself is an entirely different topic and debate.. Also, dont forget that growin up playing the game, a youth will prefer to play out on the field rather than stick up in the goal and take bang (normally yuh put the worst player in goal), thus meaning the playing pool is less for goalkeepers.

All in all, i think its too simple to pinpoint one reason as to why one position is harder to fill than the next..

[soupman]

All in all, i think its too simple to pinpoint one reason as to why one position is harder to fill than the next..

Agreed. But you made some interesting points. The one about younger players in particular where the worst players get put in goal. Which is funny because later on it seems that position can be crucial to a teams success. I thinking James who, despite his flaws, seems to be bailing Portsmouth out a lot these days or imagine Sunderland with a less capable keeper than Gordon. I guess at some point you have to put quality between the sticks to do well (or at least have a chance).