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Author Topic: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective  (Read 2173 times)

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Offline FLi !

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EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« on: November 27, 2007, 04:06:13 PM »
Croatian Coach Slaven Bilic has supported the assertions of Steven Gerrard, Michel Platini, Sepp Blatter and the UK's Sports Minister Richard Caborn by saying that the only way to save the English National Team is to cut down on foreigners in the EPL.

<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/euro_2008/article2951268.ece"
target="_blank">The Slaven Bilic blue print to save English Football? Cut down on foreigners[/url]

David Pannick Queens Counsel puts forward the the EU Law basis for why it would be illegal and or at  least likely to be challenged in the European Court, should UEFA, FIFA or The FA attempt to implement such a limitation.

Sports minister will lose his war against foreigners

Foreign stars will continue to shine in the premier league – it's simply the rules of the game

David Pannick QC

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/columnists/david_pannick/article2947135.ece

One of the shortlisted entries for the Times’ competition to select a motto for Britain was “mathematically, we can still qualify”. Even before the England football team’s defeat by Croatia at Wembley last week ruled England out of Euro 2008, Gerry Sutcliffe, the Sports Minister, called for an inquiry into whether English football might do better if fewer foreign players were employed by Barclays Premier League Clubs. Steven Gerrard, the England captain, agreed. Defeat by Croatia is likely to promote more such suggestions. But an inquiry would be over well before the end of the first half. Any attempt to restrict the number of foreign footballers in this country would lead to Mr Sutcliffe watching a European final in the Court of Justice in Luxembourg, where we would face an inevitable and humiliating defeat by the European Commission linking up with European Union law.

As that great outside left George Orwell observed, serious sport is “war minus the shooting”. The Sports Minister’s proposal for a battle against foreign players lacks the accurate shots required from any skilful striker. Imposing quotas on the number of foreign players in club teams, or squads, would promote mediocrity. Arsène Wenger, manager of Arsenal FC, has rightly emphasised that spectators want to see the best players, and in any event you do not enhance the quality of English footballers by removing from them the incentive of needing to improve their performance in order to win a place in their club side. Artificial barriers conflict with the essence of sport, which is competition designed to identify the best. In any event, quotas would plainly be unlawful under European law.

In 1974 the European Court of Justice stated in Walrave and Koch v International Cyclists Union that sport is subject to European Community law “in so far as it constitutes an economic activity”. Therefore, sport must respect the right to free movement of workers and comply with the community law prohibition on nationality discrimination in the provision of goods and services. In 1976, in Dona v Mantero, the European Court explained that these principles apply to the rules of sporting organisations, as well as to national law.

In the Bosman case in 1995, the European Court declared unlawful the regulations of Uefa (the governing body of European football) that required football clubs playing in European tournaments to limit the number of players from other EU states selected for the team. The court explained that it was irrelevant that these regulations did not prevent the employment of players but only limited the extent to which clubs may field them in matches: “In so far as participation in such matches is the essential purpose of a professional player’s activity, a rule which restricts that participation obviously also restricts the chances of employment of the player concerned.” In the court’s view, there was no justification for the nationality discrimination.

The court repeated what it had previously stated: there is obviously an exception where players are selected for “matches between national teams from different countries”. Excluding foreign players from selection for the national team is plainly permitted as essential to the nature of the competition. But club tournaments are different. Nationality discrimination is prohibited in that context.

In The German Handball Federation v Kolpak in 2003 the European Court took these principles a stage farther, applying them not merely to nationals of other EU states, but also to citizens of those many other countries with which the EU has association agreements. Where a citizen of such a country is lawfully employed in an EU member state, a sports body may not discriminate against the employee on the ground of his nationality. So Mr Kolpak, a Slovak national lawfully employed by a German handball team, could not be subjected to rules that limited the number of foreigners playing for each club in matches in the domestic league. Finally, in the Meca-Medina case in 2006, the European Court decided that the rules of a sporting body – there the doping rules of the International Swimming Federation – must comply with EU competition law.

Sepp Blatter, the president of Fifa (the world governing body for football), has led an unsuccessful campaign for sport to be granted an exemption from EU law. And Uefa, even when 5-0 down, battles until the final whistle blows. It has introduced a rule recently that reserves places in club squads in European competition matches for “locally trained” players. That is unlikely to survive scrutiny by the European Commission and the European Court because of indirect nationality discrimination.

The Sports Minister should concentrate on finding ways to promote sport in schools and try to avoid scoring own goals.

The author is a practising barrister at Blackstone Chambers a Fellow of All Souls College, Oxford, and a season-ticket holder at Arsenal FC




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giggsy11

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2007, 04:22:26 PM »
I don't think the problem is to many foreigners in the EPL, I think the problem is the amount of
sh!thound foreigners in the EPL!

Offline Blue

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2007, 05:04:36 PM »
I don't think the problem is to many foreigners in the EPL, I think the problem is the amount of
sh!thound foreigners in the EPL!

For English football, 1966 is the benchmark. As far as England is concerned, its been all downhill from there. So analysing England's perfomance in all major international tournaments since then...

Fact: there is no correlation between the percentage of foreigners (i.e. - non Brits) in the EPL and England's qualification for, and performance in, major international tournaments since 1966.

In fact, if you strip out the 1966 win and the 1996 Euro semis (since home teams are known to perform much, much better than their recent form and talent suggests....Germany 06, Portugal 04, Korea 02, USA 94, the list goes on...) then England have had very limited success, period (one Euro semi and one WC semi).

There was another thread recently which then attempted to compare the percentage of home grown players in other big Euro leagues to the success of their respective national teams. This argument is flawed - national team players are almost exclusively picked from the big 3 or 4 clubs in each league - in Italy, Spain, Germany etc., the top clubs are just as mutinational as in England.


Although interestingly, there is a positive correlation between the number of Scots in the EPL and Scotland's performance in major tournaments. So maybe they should be the ones complaining.  :D

Offline Observer

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2007, 05:23:11 PM »
Everyone looking for excuses for England. the bottom line is they have found wanting at the International level. In 1985 ManU won the FA cup and they only had three English players, one of which represented England. Foreigners only came about in the late 90's so what was the excuse before that.

Really and truly the players from England even the highly rated ones (so called World Class) are really and truly not World Class. Pick a World 11 today and not one English player will make the squad. Even Rooney who is a genuine talent simply does not score consistently enough to warrant selection on a World Team.

Forcing Premier teams to play English players won't make a difference. Look at he English players in the Championship, way below average in general. It will only make the Premier a poor league.
Players like Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney need to go abroad and widen their game. Look what playing abroad has done for France footballers

The real problem is at the heart of youth football where coaches encourage players to 'get stuck in" rather than display skill & imagination in their play. Once England get this right and have players playing in Spain and Italy on a consistent basis, then and only then they will be able to challenge.
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giggsy11

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2007, 06:22:03 PM »
Everyone looking for excuses for England. the bottom line is they have found wanting at the International level. In 1985 ManU won the FA cup and they only had three English players, one of which represented England. Foreigners only came about in the late 90's so what was the excuse before that.

Really and truly the players from England even the highly rated ones (so called World Class) are really and truly not World Class. Pick a World 11 today and not one English player will make the squad. Even Rooney who is a genuine talent simply does not score consistently enough to warrant selection on a World Team.

Forcing Premier teams to play English players won't make a difference. Look at he English players in the Championship, way below average in general. It will only make the Premier a poor league.
Players like Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney need to go abroad and widen their game. Look what playing abroad has done for France footballers

The real problem is at the heart of youth football where coaches encourage players to 'get stuck in" rather than display skill & imagination in their play. Once England get this right and have players playing in Spain and Italy on a consistent basis, then and only then they will be able to challenge.



I agree that England's players are overated. I don't think there is one English player who would garner interest from a big overseas club. I always laugh when there are rumors linking Lampard with Barca. Who is Lampard better than on that side? He is super limited and a bottler! He is not naturally gifted but hard working. The English media loves to hype their own and the peons love to drink the kool aid. Don't believe the hype! Leadbetter for Sunderland super sh!!!!thound and the boy is suppose to be one of the up and coming English under 21year olds!

Offline Dutty

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2007, 06:23:22 PM »

 This argument is flawed - national team players are almost exclusively picked from the big 3 or 4 clubs in each league - in Italy, Spain, Germany etc., the top clubs are just as mutinational as in England.



Exactly,

I feel de UK sports minister just pull ah big xenophopic horse out de stable and lookin to ride it round a st. georges flag de to save he job
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Offline Bakes

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2007, 07:01:01 PM »
Everyone looking for excuses for England. the bottom line is they have found wanting at the International level. In 1985 ManU won the FA cup and they only had three English players, one of which represented England. Foreigners only came about in the late 90's so what was the excuse before that.

Really and truly the players from England even the highly rated ones (so called World Class) are really and truly not World Class. Pick a World 11 today and not one English player will make the squad. Even Rooney who is a genuine talent simply does not score consistently enough to warrant selection on a World Team.

Forcing Premier teams to play English players won't make a difference. Look at he English players in the Championship, way below average in general. It will only make the Premier a poor league.
Players like Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney need to go abroad and widen their game. Look what playing abroad has done for France footballers

The real problem is at the heart of youth football where coaches encourage players to 'get stuck in" rather than display skill & imagination in their play. Once England get this right and have players playing in Spain and Italy on a consistent basis, then and only then they will be able to challenge.

I missed it...where are the excuses that everyone's making?

Offline Filho

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2007, 08:10:16 PM »
If foreigners are crippling the English national team, why is it that the English Under 21 team is cruising through European qualification? Why did the previous Under 21s make the semis of the Euro Under 21 Championships losing to eventual winners Holland in a penalty shootout while missing key players like Rooney and Bentley? Why is it that practically the entire England Under 21  teams plays (and starts) for an EPL team? While even giants like Italy and Spain pluck payers from the second division or the reserves of big teams?

Maybe the critics need to look elsewhere when assessing the benefits of foreigners in the EPL. It's like any form of competition...remove exisiting trade barriers and some traditional, inefficient industries will suffer. Politicians who perfectly understand macroeconomics than massage the truth and claim locals are losing jobs and the local businesses are falling behind and industries will collapse leaving countless unemployed. Yet over time, new more efficient businesses rise up and the economy shifts in reaction to new competition...but only over time. Same with football in the EPL....Of course the initial influx of foreigners in the EPL takes away some English footballers' jobs in the top flight and maybe there is some detrimental effect on the national team. But over time, new young players will benefit from training and playing against the likes of Zola, Henry etc...

perhaps the pundits need to stop focusing on the present generation and look and the newer generation and see how the foreigners who've helped raise the standard of the EPL may actually be benefitting the likes of Theo Walcott, Gabriel Agbonlahor, Ashley Young, David Bentley, Wayne Rooney, etc. In a few years we'll see....



Offline Bakes

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2007, 10:12:18 PM »
Everybody getting distracted by this "Foreigners in the EPL" talk...the debate is overrated because it's not really coming out of very many quarters, yet it has dominated talk about England for the past two weeks.  It was mentioned by the FA boss and now the Sports Minister...and all of a sudden it's bash England time because they saying it have too many foreigners in the EPL.

If that type of mentality prevails today, God only knows what the rest of the football world is saying about Trinidad...on account of Jack Warner's mouth.

Offline FLi !

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2007, 09:05:08 AM »
Everybody getting distracted by this "Foreigners in the EPL" talk...the debate is overrated because it's not really coming out of very many quarters, yet it has dominated talk about England for the past two weeks.  It was mentioned by the FA boss and now the Sports Minister...and all of a sudden it's bash England time because they saying it have too many foreigners in the EPL.

If that type of mentality prevails today, God only knows what the rest of the football world is saying about Trinidad...on account of Jack Warner's mouth.

Though it's not coming out of a lot of quarters, it's coming out of a lot of influential quarters; The Sports Minister is the minister appointed by the PM to handle the national soprts portfolio, Platini is the head of UEFA and Blatter the head of FIFA.

 It's also debate which has also been around for a while in Europe and England, although not necessarily always related to football.
 
English cricket at county level took the decision to regulate itself and drastically reduce the number of foreigners for the 'perceived' benefit of developing the national team. It's arguable whether or not the English cricket national team has benefitted from this or not.

Also the political climate in the UK currently has been in heavy debate about the controversial issue of immigration. Quotas, ID cards and increased qualification restrictions for highly skilled migrants are all hot issues. PM Gordon Brown is also trying his best to encourage british nationalism in the war on extremist views and is trying to come up with a unifying slogan that incoporates britain before the 2012 olympics. 'Buy British' is set to be extended to 'Play British'

« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 09:07:19 AM by FLi ! »
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Offline superoli

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2007, 10:24:47 AM »
Imagine how the Spainsh feel then ..............all that talent and they cant win a dam thing since 1964 (when they hosted the euro cup)
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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2007, 11:57:43 AM »


Though it's not coming out of a lot of quarters, it's coming out of a lot of influential quarters; The Sports Minister is the minister appointed by the PM to handle the national soprts portfolio, Platini is the head of UEFA and Blatter the head of FIFA.

 It's also debate which has also been around for a while in Europe and England, although not necessarily always related to football.
 
English cricket at county level took the decision to regulate itself and drastically reduce the number of foreigners for the 'perceived' benefit of developing the national team. It's arguable whether or not the English cricket national team has benefitted from this or not.

Also the political climate in the UK currently has been in heavy debate about the controversial issue of immigration. Quotas, ID cards and increased qualification restrictions for highly skilled migrants are all hot issues. PM Gordon Brown is also trying his best to encourage british nationalism in the war on extremist views and is trying to come up with a unifying slogan that incoporates britain before the 2012 olympics. 'Buy British' is set to be extended to 'Play British'



I seriously doubt Blatter and Platini were advocating closing the borders to non-British footballers, I read their comments as endorsement of the obvious, yes foreigners in the top leagues are taking the spot that theoretically should belong to an Englishman.  That's different from saying the English game will benefit from a reduction in the number of foreign players.  In my mind that's a minority argument that has gained currency only for the sheer audacity and inflammatory nature of its content. 

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Re: EPL- The Foreigner Debate-The Legal Perspective
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2007, 01:42:17 PM »
This Foreigner debate is long. If you want to be a footballer Train hard and mix it with the best (or in the FA's case change training methods you promote, look to successful nations programmes e.g Holland but England don't want to do that because they are subborn) regardless of nationality. Sounds simplistic but those are two of the things that will get you there among others, not complaining about foreigners. I wish people would realise that

 

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