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Author Topic: Choked to death for no Hijab  (Read 24564 times)

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Offline Dutty

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Choked to death for no Hijab
« on: December 11, 2007, 06:24:56 PM »
real harsh.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_17567.aspx






Teen Dies After Being Choked In Her Own Home
Tuesday December 11, 2007


She wanted to be more Western.

He wanted her to be more traditional.

And that clash of cultures may have been what led a father to allegedly choke and kill his daughter on Monday. Police are saying very little about what happened in a home on normally quiet Longhorn Trail in the Eglinton and Hurontario area of Mississauga. But the friends of 16-year-old Aqsa Parvez claim she was desperately trying to pull away from the strict traditions of her devout Muslim family and lived in fear of her father.

"Every single time, we'd get off the school bus she would always want me to walk her halfway home because she was paranoid her dad or brother would follow her home," remembers her good friend Ashley Garbutt. "She used to walk the rest of the way home. I stopped for a little while and after, I kept continuing because I understood it was a serious matter. And then after, I was expecting her to come to school on Monday and everything was going to be fine."

But as students at Applewood Heights Secondary School discovered during when the announcement of their friends' death came over the PA system on Tuesday, nothing was.

Aqsa passed away in hospital overnight. The sad story began around 8am the day before when a man called police to report he'd murdered his daughter. Authorities found the girl clinging to life. She'd reportedly been choked into unconsciousness. Her father, identified as 57-year-old cab driver Muhammad Parvez, was taken into custody at the scene.

Her friends tell of a troubled family life, with the teen refusing to wear the traditional head covering hijab, and preferring more Western-style clothing.

"She wanted to be her own person," Garbutt adds.  "She wanted to show who she really was. She wanted to show her own beauty. But he wanted her...to wear Pakistani clothing wearing the hijab and everything, but she didn't want to do that."

Apparently Aqsa moved out of the family home and was staying with a friend at the time of her death.  There is speculation she may have only gone back to the residence to get some belongings.  It would prove to be a fatal decision.

"She's kind of rebellious a bit," confirms classmate Heather Bottecher. "She's supposed to wear the hijab. But she doesn't usually wear it. And she usually wears short sleeves when you're supposed to wear long sleeves. And she wears, like, low cut shirts and stuff like that."

"We noticed a drastic change in her appearance," another friend named Shianne Phillips recalls. "Like, she used to dress religiously. Now she's dressing in, like, more causal clothing, like other people."

There are reports the teen would wear the special garb to school then change when she got there to fool her father.

The entire family - seven adults and three children - was questioned by police after the crime and cops claim they found enough evidence to charge the victim's brother, 26-year-old Waqas Parvez, with obstructing justice.

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Offline Dr. Rat

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 06:42:37 PM »
Real sad.
PNM in yuh mudda-in-law

Offline just cool

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 09:16:31 PM »
My take, i don't think it had much to do with the hijab as much as with having a disobediant kid in your home, maybe the girl was having sex and the dad comming from that culture probably fliped while trying to repremand her, and shyte went out of hand. we just hearing one prospective, why not weigh the whole situation. it's a real witch hunt right now on islam, and any thing negative about muslims , the media graps and runs with it.
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 10:09:06 PM »
No excuse she could b screwin d whole town
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bakes

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 11:59:13 PM »
My take, i don't think it had much to do with the hijab as much as with having a disobediant kid in your home, maybe the girl was having sex and the dad comming from that culture probably fliped while trying to repremand her, and shyte went out of hand. we just hearing one prospective, why not weigh the whole situation. it's a real witch hunt right now on islam, and any thing negative about muslims , the media graps and runs with it.

...and speculation is better?

Is there anything that she really could have done to deserve to be strangled at the hands of her own father?

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2007, 01:08:49 AM »
I hear she was eating pork, dat is why she dead now ::)

Offline just cool

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 05:58:51 AM »
very very strange thinking
Life seems to be worth nothing
is this normal for Muslims to act like this...pleases someone tell me it ent so
and wanting to Kill some one for calling a teddy bear the prophet's name.
I really ent want to mention de name as I fraid lash eh ;)
Coast i not making any excuses for this man , but as long as the media involed yuh have to take whatever they say with a grain of salt before yuh jump out the window. the man may not have killed his kid intentionally, maybe she fell and hid her head or maybe he lost it and did not know the strenght of his hands , who knows. we in T&T beat we kid in all kind of brutal ways , and lukily for us we suvived, some ppl are not that luky like in this case.

 anyway even if he meant to kill her, does that mean all muslims should be under the microscope, or islam for that matter. FYI cristians and atheist commit far more crime than muslims any day any way , but you don't hear christian timothy mc viegh blew up 260 children , but tim mc viegh and terry nickoles.

 i guess what i mean to say is why bring religon into the equation when it's an isolated incident. and as for that woman calling the teddy muhamad,  personally i don't see why all the fuss, there are far more important things in the world to focus on, that deserve the media attention.

 for the muslims who take offence to this , then they don't read their book well enough, BC islam aint so petty, a lot of these so called islamic values are no where to be found in the quran, a lot of it is cultural. what about when christians took our ancestors and brought then cross the atlantic for hundreds of yrs, in the name of the cross, who had shyte to say about christianity ? what about bush killing iraqi kids every day without cease, a big christian, who has shyte to say? do they put it in the media? HELL F##KING NO!!!!!! SO WHY PUT ISLAM UNDER A MICROSCOPE STUUUUEEEEPPPPSSSS!!!!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 06:52:35 AM by just cool »
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Offline pecan

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 07:25:17 AM »
very very strange thinking
Life seems to be worth nothing
is this normal for Muslims to act like this...pleases someone tell me it ent so
and wanting to Kill some one for calling a teddy bear the prophet's name.
I really ent want to mention de name as I fraid lash eh ;)

WC, good editorial in the National Post today as well as a comment by two members of the Muslim Canadian Congress

This is a manifestation of Domestic Violence.

And Domestic Violence in any form is inexcusable.  To paraphrase Weary and Bake, "no excuse"








National Post Editorial, Wednesday December 12, 2007

The meaning of Aqsa Parvez

Whenever a girl dies at the tender age of 16, it’s a tragedy. But the death of Mississauga, Ont., teenager Aqsa Parvez, many fear, may represent something more: a sign that the loathsome and barbaric practice of Muslim “honour killings” is making its way from South Asia and the Middle East to Canada.

Ms. Parvez’s body was found in her home by paramedics on Monday morning. According to police, her father had called them earlier in the day to say he’d killed her. Friends of the dead girl told journalists that Ms. Parvez’s relationship with her father was antagonistic. He wanted her to wear a hijab. Instead, she wore the latest garish teen styles — sometimes switching from one outfit to the other in between home and school.

It is important to emphasize that nothing has been proven in regards to Ms. Parvez’s death. Even if her father did confess to the crime during a call to police, as alleged, the killing may have been an accident — or the result of some unknown dispute entirely unconnected to religion and culture. And even if the dispute was over Ms. Parvez’s Western-style demeanour, there is no evidence that this was an “honour killing” of the type we read about from overseas — that is to say, a premeditated assassination plotted and perpetrated by father and son to avenge a renegade daughter who “disgraces” the family name by violating the patriarch’s edicts.

Since 9/11, Western societies have begun to closely scrutinize the toxic cultural practices of unassimilated Muslims in Europe and elsewhere. These practices include not only honour killings, but also anti-Semitism, support for terrorism, misogyny, forced veilings and forced marriages. Several high-profile conservative columnists — some of whom appear on these pages — have been particularly vigorous about highlighting these pathologies. And so when a young Muslim girl gets killed by her father, there is a natural tendency to see it as an indicator that Canadian Muslims are about to follow the radicalized path of militant, unassimilated co-religionists in Paris, London and Stockholm.

In truth, however, Canada’s Muslim community is moderate by world standards. The sight of a woman in a full burka is an extraordinary rarity outside of a few small urban pockets. And such horrors as that allegedly visited upon Ms. Parvez remain almost unheard of. Moreover, for all our elites’ overwrought emphasis on Canada’s “multicultural” character, the concept of cultural relativism has not advanced so far that it is taken to excuse domestic abuse, let alone murder (though no doubt our letter writers can dig up a few troubling counter-examples).

This may change. But for the moment, we should not read too much into this family tragedy. Canada is no Europe, where immigrant communities are left to fester within impoverished ghettoes in perpetuity — with their imported violent and backward practices passed on from one generation to the next. Thanks to economic opportunity and a lack of class structure, assimilation typically takes just two generations in Canada.

As the case of Ms. Parvez shows, that assimilation process can be so rapid and wrenching that a parent can be driven to perform the ultimate evil against a child he doesn’t recognize anymore. But it is rare enough that we may at least view it as an isolated criminal act, not part of a larger epidemic.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 07:31:43 AM by pecan »
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Offline pecan

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 07:28:04 AM »
Now, here is the comment by Tarek Fatah and Farzana Hassan



THE DEADLY FACE OF MUSLIM EXTREMISM
TAREK FATAH AND FARZANA HASSAN National Post Wednesday December 12, 2007

The tragic death of a Mississauga, Ont., teenage girl — allegedly at the hands of her own traditionally minded Muslim father — has sent shock waves across the world. Canadians are justified in raising concerns as to whether this is a sign of the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in their own backyard.

Aqsa Parvez, a sprightly 16-yearold, beloved of her friends and peers at Applewood Heights Secondary School, was only trying to be herself, was only wishing for a normal adolescence amid Canada’s rich cultural mosaic. Her father has now been charged with murder, and his son with obstruction, while a young life has been snuffed out — likely in the name of honour and Islam.

Radical Muslim men consider themselves ultimately responsible for the conduct of the womenfolk. This outlook is rooted in a medieval ethos that treats women as nonpersons, unable to decide for themselves what they should wear, where they must go and what they must accomplish in life. If their conduct is seen as contravening this austere religious outlook, they are invariably subjected to abuse.

The hijab in particular has become a thorny issue among Muslim families. It has been elevated as a sort of “sixth pillar of Islam” among militant sects. Young teenage girls are often lectured over the virtues of the hijab by their family members. Once they hit puberty, compliance is deemed a non-negotiable religious requirement.

Yet none of this is actually mandated by the Koran. The Koran, while speaking generally of modesty in dress and demeanour, falls short of specifying the details of that modesty. Scripture also makes allowances for non-compliance of religious edicts if the environment is not conducive to their observance.

The Koran exhorts compassion upon parents, caretakers and guardians of young girls. Yet some families instead exhibit a strict conformity to doctrine and dogma, which in turn leads to violence, bigotry and intolerance of alternative understandings of faith.

There is much discussion in Canadian society about the religious freedoms of those who choose to wear the hijab. We hear relatively little about the oppression of young girls who make the opposite choice. Seldom is their oppression from within their own community, or even their own family, cast as a human rights issue.

If convicted, Aqsa’s father and brother must be handed the strictest penalty available under the law. As for the imams and clergy of Canada’s mosques, who constantly berate young women for not wearing the hijab or snub them for “violating Islam,” they need to reflect on the consequences of their sermons.

Consider, as an example, the Montreal mosque that recently posted on its Web site a warning to the effect that if young girls took off their hijab, they could end up getting raped and having “illegitimate children.” Other proffered risks included “Stresses, insecurity and suspicion in the minds of husbands” and “instigating young people to deviate towards the path of lust.”

As if the threat of rape and the fear of illegitimate children were not enough, these pre-teen girls were told that if they took off their hijab, they would cease to be Muslims: “By removing your hijab, you have destroyed your faith. Islam means submission to Allah in all our actions.” Little wonder then, that Canadian girls walk away from sports tournaments rather than remove their hijabs.

Muslims need to stand up to this sort of emotional and religious blackmail by imams who spread the competing agendas of Saudi Arabia and Iran into Canada. Young Aqsa Pervez’s death cannot be reversed. But in her memory, we can at least challenge those whose message leads to rage and madness.

Tarek Fatah is author of Chasing a Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State, to be published by Wiley & Sons in March, 2008. Farzana Hassan is author of Islam, Women, and the Challenges of Today. Both are members of the Muslim Canadian Congress (mcc@muslimcongress.ca).


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Offline pecan

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 07:43:35 AM »
Farzana Hassan (President of the Muslim Canadian Congress)  will be on the Toronto Radio station AM 640

She thinks it was an Honour Killing

The air time will be around 8:45 am on Wed Dec 12, 2007

http://www.640toronto.com/shared/player/?id=cfmjam
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 07:47:09 AM by pecan »
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Offline pecan

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 08:53:32 AM »
http://www.640toronto.com/shared/player/?id=cfmjam
dat link  ent wukkin for me :P

well she has finished her interview .. she pretty much re-iterated wat she wrote in her article .. she said it has all the characteristics of a Honour Killing

She is the President of the Muslim Canadian Congress so has better insight into the Canadian Muslim community than any ah we I would suggest.

Try this link

http://www.640toronto.com/shared/corus_content/corus_player/index.aspx?rem=cfmjam
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Offline Jumbie

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 09:01:41 AM »
Very, very sad!


Offline Johpants

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 09:28:22 AM »
Very sad indeed, for the whole family.  I don't know nah. Things were simpler when parents admonished and children adhered to "Do as I say as long as you living under my roof!"

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 12:57:41 PM »
Why does the National Post view a 'larger epidemic' as a necessary precursor to alarm? That's BS. I understand the need to try to tamp down a valid sense of what is Canadian society, but is that worth it at the expense of minimisation?

Just cool, I appreciate your efforts to be open-minded on the subject but ah really cyah see this concluding in anything but being an honour killing.

May be new to this neighbourhood, but sufficiently witnessed elsewhere to be recognised for what it it.

Similar thing happened in Italy about 4-5 months ago.

Offline Dutty

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2007, 01:45:39 PM »
Why does the National Post view a 'larger epidemic' as a necessary precursor to alarm? That's BS. I understand the need to try to tamp down a valid sense of what is Canadian society, but is that worth it at the expense of minimisation?


Cause the National Post is a right wing organ.....but they do have the prettiest ink colours of the three daily newspapers which is probably why pecan like it so much  ;)

Obviously the average muslim eh go kill he daughter for 'disrespect'

I doubt this was an honour killing as it wasnt pre meditated.....de lil gyirl come back home to get some clothes and de father lorse it when he see she reach without any head covering
de lil teenage rebelliousness must be was causin he to brew from long time and dem fellahs come from a culture where woman who doh obey must feel

Either way, still a dread situation
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 01:55:16 PM by Dutty »
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2007, 02:29:08 PM »
So honour killings HAVE to be pre-meditated?

Offline Grande

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2007, 02:44:49 PM »
Why we feel this quick need to defend Islam? Is it because is an ancient religion? Is it because we grow up with Muslims or have Muslim bredrins who never act violent?

Jess wondering out loud. What would it take to deconstruct Islam and give it a face for the 21st century?

Clearly some Muslims and their culture are being influenced negatively by it, or by what they think it is. We could only use de explanation that Islam is being "hijacked" or "misinterpreted" for so long. Remember Islam as a religion that has remained unchanging and unaltered since it formed, whereas others might have changed with the times or mellowed out - look the Pope does apologize for things that happened in the past.

Maybe our Muslim forumites could help me out ... because clearly depending on where yuh from in the Middle East, Africa and Asia, the way in which you embrace Islam differs

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Offline Bakes

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2007, 03:12:46 PM »
Why does the National Post view a 'larger epidemic' as a necessary precursor to alarm? That's BS. I understand the need to try to tamp down a valid sense of what is Canadian society, but is that worth it at the expense of minimisation?

Just cool, I appreciate your efforts to be open-minded on the subject but ah really cyah see this concluding in anything but being an honour killing.

May be new to this neighbourhood, but sufficiently witnessed elsewhere to be recognised for what it it.

Similar thing happened in Italy about 4-5 months ago.

One of the most shocking things I ever had the displeasure of witnessing just about a year ago was a videotape of a young Jordanian muslim girl (17 years old) being dragged from her home (with the endorsement of her father) and being stripped and stoned to death (all this captured on camera phone) by an enraged mob of muslim men. 

Her crime?  Her father prohibited her from seeing another youth, a 17-year old Jordanian Christian boy...and she snuck out to be with him a few nights before her murder.  The sight of this helpless girl being stripped nake, punched, kicked like a rag doll and stoned and beating with rocks by this mob of animals...was for me a personal low for human civilization...that such brutality and barbarism could be meted out with such universal community support was really an eye opener.

This 'honour killing' thing is no joke.

Offline Tongue

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2007, 03:58:14 PM »
I hear she was eating pork, dat is why she dead now ::)
u is ah real ass oui! ting tuh cry yuh kicksin  :)

Offline Dutty

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2007, 05:48:14 PM »
So honour killings HAVE to be pre-meditated?

me eh know boss

I only say it wasnt because who go pay de man mortgage and mind the rest of he family when he lock up for real years
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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2007, 06:12:17 PM »
God so great dat he need people to kill fuh him.


Offline pecan

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2007, 07:26:37 PM »
Why does the National Post view a 'larger epidemic' as a necessary precursor to alarm? That's BS. I understand the need to try to tamp down a valid sense of what is Canadian society, but is that worth it at the expense of minimisation?


Cause the National Post is a right wing organ.....but they do have the prettiest ink colours of the three daily newspapers which is probably why pecan like it so much  ;)



$5.95/month for delivery before 6:00 am six days a week ....

and jess because I read it doh mean I am fully right wing ... more right of centre perhaps ... ;)

Asylum, not sure if I understand your comment ... I dont think the Post was trying to minimize the incident.  If so, dey would not have devoted front page headline nor print Fatah and Hassan's commentary with bigger head lines than dere own editorial. 
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline pecan

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2007, 07:28:04 PM »
God so great dat he need people to kill fuh him.



jack .. yuh mising de point .. ;)

Is not God who is at fault, is de people who attempt to define God in human terms .. Impossible
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

truetrini

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2007, 08:48:04 PM »
God so great dat he need people to kill fuh him.



jack .. yuh mising de point .. ;)

Is not God who is at fault, is de people who attempt to define God in human terms .. Impossible

No YOU missing de point!

There is NO GOD!

man invent dat and man define it as he sees fit!

Is all mind games, and dotish ass people follow doctrines developed by man and ,asqueraded as God!

Anyway I digress....my point was all dese damn religions always proclaim dat God is de boss, God in Charge, God is de greatest, but dem alwauys acting on he behalf.

Superstition and malarkey

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2007, 09:43:00 PM »
HYPOCRACY,ENVY,STUPIDITY.in plain talk them is c**t.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2007, 09:51:30 PM »
So honour killings HAVE to be pre-meditated?
me eh know boss
I only say it wasnt because who go pay de man mortgage and mind the rest of he family when he lock up for real years
dis is de question I want to add my two cents to

In  a case recently I read that a fella lawyer argued that when his client shot the victim he did not expect the victim to die
HELL.........gnikcuf........LO...ya shoot de man wid a gun and your lawyer says you didnt mean to kill................

Dis world gorm mad..... ::)

People have to take resposibility for their actions
The Father KNEW that choking his daughter would kill her....NO QUESTION in my mind...dem Lawyers ent easy oui
there are things that WILL happen when you do certain actions...plain and simple

Oh gorm WC dahs wha de man was gehhin paid for. :rotfl: Point taken nonetheless.


Offline pecan

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2007, 10:10:06 PM »
God so great dat he need people to kill fuh him.



jack .. yuh mising de point .. ;)

Is not God who is at fault, is de people who attempt to define God in human terms .. Impossible

No YOU missing de point!

There is NO GOD!

man invent dat and man define it as he sees fit!

Is all mind games, and dotish ass people follow doctrines developed by man and ,asqueraded as God!

Anyway I digress....my point was all dese damn religions always proclaim dat God is de boss, God in Charge, God is de greatest, but dem alwauys acting on he behalf.

Superstition and malarkey

we only disagree on one ting ... de (dis)belief in a God

but I agree wid you on how dotish people is (does) get when dey believe that their God (real or unreal) does (is) need help ...

ah mean .. if dey belief their God is Omnipotent, den why does he need Human help

anyway

Merry Christmas man  :)
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline just cool

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2007, 10:19:30 PM »
God so great dat he need people to kill fuh him.



jack .. yuh mising de point .. ;)

Is not God who is at fault, is de people who attempt to define God in human terms .. Impossible

No YOU missing de point!

There is NO GOD!

man invent dat and man define it as he sees fit!

Is all mind games, and dotish ass people follow doctrines developed by man and ,asqueraded as God!

Anyway I digress....my point was all dese damn religions always proclaim dat God is de boss, God in Charge, God is de greatest, but dem alwauys acting on he behalf.

Superstition and malarkey
It seem like you have some inside info that the rest ah we doh know about, you are doing the same as the fundermentalist by saying there is no god, bring yuh proof instead of just running talk, BC talk real cheap either way around, to negate without knowledge is worst than accepting without knowledge. the religious say yes , the athiest say no, bring allyuh proof.
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2007, 10:40:44 PM »
Why does the National Post view a 'larger epidemic' as a necessary precursor to alarm? That's BS. I understand the need to try to tamp down a valid sense of what is Canadian society, but is that worth it at the expense of minimisation?


Cause the National Post is a right wing organ.....but they do have the prettiest ink colours of the three daily newspapers which is probably why pecan like it so much ;)



$5.95/month for delivery before 6:00 am six days a week ....

and jess because I read it doh mean I am fully right wing ... more right of centre perhaps ... ;)

Asylum, not sure if I understand your comment ... I dont think the Post was trying to minimize the incident. If so, dey would not have devoted front page headline nor print Fatah and Hassan's commentary with bigger head lines than dere own editorial.
 
Pecan, seen this all before because it's a way common modus operandi post 9-11.

That article by Fatah and Hassan is a good article ... buh leh we deconstruct it as called for by a man above.

1. It meets the purpose of trying to convince Canadians and Westerners of the wider thread of moderacy within Islam and to alleviate concern that "the dangerous Muslims" are at the backdoor:

Quote
Canadians are justified in raising concerns as to whether this is a sign of the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in their own backyard.
.

2. Modern day fidei defensor ... defend the faith by resorting to theological explanation and pointing out where some of the flock have gone wrong ... while shifting this into Western political discourse as ideological divide (esp since Westerns want to understand Islam as being political) although Middle Eastern gov'ts rule politically from an areligious-quasi-religious point for their legitimacy) ... quasi would be Saudis and Wahhabi ... to areligious Muammar Khadaffi et al

Quote
Yet none of this is actually mandated by the Koran. The Koran, while speaking generally of modesty in dress and demeanour, falls short of specifying the details of that modesty. Scripture also makes allowances for non-compliance of religious edicts if the environment is not conducive to their observance.

Thing is non-Muslim Westerners by and large don't care about the ideological schism or divide. This is not viewed as 21st century schism between Martin Luther and the Pope. As long as it eh nutten remotely associated with a megachurch perspective don't explain to me is probably how the average Christian who does not recognise the legitimacy of the Koran would view it. It's a weak selling point b/c Fatah and Hassan selling  one thing and de consumers seeing another.

Who yuh go believe? De Jehovah's Witness who say that church doctrine doh really support knocking on yuh door on Xmas Day??? Or de man who knocking an insisting on a different theology???

3. Appeal to fellow enlightened Muslims to stand up against the scourge that's also threatening their life experience in the West. [Ii eh go reproduce de quotes, jes look at how dey wrap up dey article referencing de wayward imams in Canadian mosques]

Now match that up with the National Post's agenda.

1. De backstep perspective
Quote
... the death of Mississauga, Ont., teenager Aqsa Parvez, many fear, may represent something more: a sign that the loathsome and barbaric practice of Muslim “honour killings” is making its way from South Asia and the Middle East to Canada.


Jes cool my fellow Canadians, de barbarians eh at de gate yet ... dey eh go reach because dis a different society from whey dey dis typically be causing trouble

2. [a mix with 1 above]

Quote
Since 9/11, Western societies have begun to closely scrutinize the toxic cultural practices of unassimilated Muslims in Europe and elsewhere. These practices include not only honour killings, but also anti-Semitism, support for terrorism, misogyny, forced veilings and forced marriages. Several high-profile conservative columnists — some of whom appear on these pages — have been particularly vigorous about highlighting these pathologies. And so when a young Muslim girl gets killed by her father, there is a natural tendency to see it as an indicator that Canadian Muslims are about to follow the radicalized path of militant, unassimilated co-religionists in Paris, London and Stockholm.

In truth, however, Canada’s Muslim community is moderate by world standards.

3. Assert the difference between Canada and Europe and make sure that the idea of the Canadian polity remains unassailed and unassaulted by this barbaric intrusion and also doubles as an appeal to enlightened Muslims

Quote
Canada is no Europe, where immigrant communities are left to fester within impoverished ghettoes in perpetuity — with their imported violent and backward practices passed on from one generation to the next. Thanks to economic opportunity and a lack of class structure, assimilation typically takes just two generations in Canada.

Interesting how a liberal Muslim becomes the bedfellow of a conservative Westerner. Understand this and we have a clear understanding of how extremism is defined and to be understood and through whose lens.

Ah seeing de right wing flag clearly and ah seeing why dey real interested in minimising this situationnot in terms of gravity, but in terms of perhaps being unique and exceptional. It too threatening to their understanding of what Canada should be.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 10:43:08 PM by asylumseeker »

truetrini

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Re: Choked to death for no Hijab
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2007, 07:02:46 AM »
God so great dat he need people to kill fuh him.



jack .. yuh mising de point .. ;)

Is not God who is at fault, is de people who attempt to define God in human terms .. Impossible

No YOU missing de point!

There is NO GOD!

man invent dat and man define it as he sees fit!

Is all mind games, and dotish ass people follow doctrines developed by man and ,asqueraded as God!

Anyway I digress....my point was all dese damn religions always proclaim dat God is de boss, God in Charge, God is de greatest, but dem alwauys acting on he behalf.

Superstition and malarkey
It seem like you have some inside info that the rest ah we doh know about, you are doing the same as the fundermentalist by saying there is no god, bring yuh proof instead of just running talk, BC talk real cheap either way around, to negate without knowledge is worst than accepting without knowledge. the religious say yes , the athiest say no, bring allyuh proof.

Bring YOUR PROOF THAT THERE IS A GOD oir for that matter...any god!

I want proof, I say there is no God because I see NO EVIDENCE of same....so the onus is on YOU..the believer to show me emperical eviodence of YOUR DEITY!

I doh want no faith talk...EVIDENCE!

 

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