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Author Topic: WE need to limit all outside influence if we want to survive the madnes in T&T  (Read 3375 times)

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Offline just cool

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I remember years ago Trinidad & Tobago had a calm and a peace that settled over our nation like a cloud of glorious pure sweet rain. many members on here were to young to remember , and many more were not even conceived, but those who are old enough to remember will concure.

murders & robbery was an abnormal occurrence, a few times a year maybe, and the flying squad were all over it like flies on sh!t. ppl walked where ever when ever with no fear of man or beast. in those days cussing out ah man was the norm with out any kind of deadly repercussion. my point is! when DR Williams was in charge, the nation had less out side influence than now!

 every thing we watched and listened to was censured, there was no obscenity or violence in our music , and we were not allowed to import unsavory content into our country.but after the doc passed, every thing went off course. the movies changed, the music changed, and so did the ppl.

 just before i left trini i remembered dudes were listening to dance hall reggae and rap music, back then dudes were selling crack and weed and the gun culture was just beginning to take root, no one was getting killed , but fellas was shooting man in dey butt , leg and hands, some would bluff shoot or just draw their guns and talk ah lot of shyte, but no one was getting killed.

i told my good friend that if this BS continued the babies that was comming up would not be as harmless as us, he laughed and said not in a million yrs would we get as bad as the US, now look at today! i hate to tell you bro, but you were wrong! T&T need's to stop all out side influence  from entering our country, just keep it educational, that's the best way to fight crime, the DOC did it with a 100% success rate too.   that's the only solution too a growing problem.  re-programme the babies with educational content!!!!                          positive.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 04:59:59 AM by just cool »
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline Bakes

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That type of censorship and cultural isolationism you propose is neither feasible nor practical.  Parents need to do their level best to counter the negative influences on their kids...and law enforcement needs to start doing a better job at, well...doing their jobs.

truetrini

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outside influences no doubt, but as Bakes said, it rests with parents!

What nation in the world has not been influenced by foreign ides innovations and culture?

Trinidad is barely an independent nation, that is the trouble, add the fact that our population is one that cares little about accountability and moves like an immature 16year old, then you see why we in danger.

Believe it or not, T&T still has a censor board, but the internet and videos, television  and video games do influence the youth.  It is not the government to keep the children in check, it is parents.

Again the stinking Church has also failed, especialy the catholic church with all dem sex scandlas and pedophile priests.  The evangelical hypocrites too.  With tehy prosperity teachings and they faith healing lies!  all de while telling de dummies in the congregation that they need t send God dey money.

dem travelling around de world holidaying calling it evangelism and have Escalade fuh dem clothes alone!

Ban religion, parents take control of their children, monitor them carefully, teach dem values and model them too.

That is de way tuh change tings.

Dem make sure de police well compensated, properly disclipined when dey trangres de law....I mean treat them with impunity when yuh ketch dem....alas...look at de wau de judges and magistrates behaving in T&T.

sorry fh de rant eh...ah go stop now.

Offline Trini _2026

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I remember years ago Trinidad & Tobago had a calm and a peace that settled over our nation like a cloud of glorious pure sweet rain. many members on here were to young to remember , and many more were not even conceived, but those who are old enough to remember will concure.

murders & robbery was an abnormal occurrence, a few times a year maybe, and the flying squad were all over it like flies on sh!t. ppl walked where ever when ever with no fear of man or beast. in those days cussing out ah man was the norm with out any kind of deadly repercussion. my point is! when DR Williams was in charge, the nation had less out side influence than now!

 every thing we watched and listened to was censured, there was no obscenity or violence in our music , and we were not allowed to import unsavory content into our country.but after the doc passed, every thing went off course. the movies changed, the music changed, and so did the ppl.

 just before i left trini i remembered dudes were listening to dance hall reggae and rap music, back then dudes were selling crack and weed and the gun culture was just beginning to take root, no one was getting killed , but fellas was shooting man in dey butt , leg and hands, some would bluff shoot or just draw their guns and talk ah lot of shyte, but no one was getting killed.

i told my good friend that if this BS continued the babies that was comming up would not be as harmless as us, he laughed and said not in a million yrs would we get as bad as the US, now look at today! i hate to tell you bro, but you were wrong! T&T need's to stop all out side influence  from entering our country, just keep it educational, that's the best way to fight crime, the DOC did it with a 100% success rate too.   that's the only solution too a growing problem.  re-programme the babies with educational content!!!!                          positive.

Nah yuh wrong there blame parent , the educational system and the lack of opportunities and also a few of them deportee like fresh blood etc ... aint no follow fashion thing going on in Trinidad.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4</a>

Offline WestCoast

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brings back my observations about HOW the Government of Trinidad over the years have treated our Citizens who have been implicated in actions in Foreign Countries or Local actions.
I will start with the Disturbance at the University in Montreal way back in 1969. The Trinidad Citizens who were involved were brought home by the Government and their fines were paid for them.
I really trying to be neutral here
BUT does this precedent serve to cause the Idea of accountability to be discarded and others to say
"aye look at dat we could do anything and we go be cool"
then leading to the 1971 and 1990 revolts. It seems to me that the perpetrators were not prosecuted to the letter of the law. (Some who were treated lightly, have in fact turned away from Armed Conflict as a means of change and become part of the system to initiate change)

does this way of dealing with those who do "wrong" affect those who come after, giving them a feeling that the judiciary system would not prosecute them fully?


check my previous post on this

I have always wondered about the way TnT has treated their prisoners of conscience, political dissenters or conscientious objectors.
In my time I remember the students who returned to TnT from Canada who were responsible for the

protest and subsequent destruction on a Computer Lab in Sir George Williams University in Montreal on February 11, 1969

In Chapter 15, page 157, of this Book, Searching for Justice: An Autobiography, you can read more about the Sir William Incident.

Then the People who were responsible for the Coup of 1970's
and now the people who were responsible for the Coup of 1990

It seems to me that TnT Judicial System has dealt with the leaders of these protests in a way to bring them into the mainstream and NOT to further alienate them by incarceration or worse.
what allya think?
Anyone can add their more eloquent writings about these situations.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 12:48:39 PM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline just cool

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west coast, i agree with most of what you said concerning lack of accountability, but there is one matter i have to correct you on though, and that's the 1970 black power uprising.

 when makandal dagga, dave duarbrau, rafik shah and CO staged that coup, it was highly encourage by dr Williams and orchestrated to a point by him as well, behind the scenes. DR Williams wanted to push the envelope on equal rights issues in the country , but didn't know how  it would affect the economy, and outside criticism also was a factor, especially from the crown! since we were still a part of the commonwealth. plus most of the business community were white folks.

there was no way he could've pulled it off by facing the problem head on, so he en-sighted those students, by giving a number of lectures at UWI based on equal rights and colonialism, he even gave one the week of the uprising. remember , even though it was post colonialism, our nation was still runned like a British colony, and there was very little Williams could do until we became free from the crown by becoming a republic.

so those men served a purpose by staging that COUP, and they were rewarded with a fictitious trial that didn't even finished since the Nigerian general dandruma, had to abandon the tribunal to return home. anyone with a lick of sense could see that it was a set up, and it served it's purpose well. now today black and dark brown ppl can compete for jobs that was previously off limits to them.

 back then the only thing our ppl could've been were maids, gardeners, watchmen, grooms, labourers, or tradesman, unless you were highly educated then you would get an office job with OK wages, and even then you had to migrate to find proper wages as a highly skilled proffessional, Williams hated that with a passion and wanted to see it eradicated at all cost.

he wanted to see his ppl in dignified positions and not scrubbing floors and digging dirt, that's why he said massa days f@#kin done, and he stopped tourism in Trinidad saying , no more tourist annie business in the heart of town, and marched for the base in chagaramas with thousands of proud PNM supporters.

 hence the reason behind the bridge has such strong PNM support, that's BC the doc gave them back their dignity that was stolen from them from the inception. the doc was also a strong opponent of the crown and hated the monarchy and colonialism with a passion.

 when he was studying at oxford, he was a member of a radical student group that protested against colonial rule and white plantocracy, he was also one of the first black men to stand in Trafalgar square and called the white man a devil.

 he was extremly anti white and wanted them out of T&T, that's the reason he increased taxes on multinational conglamourates which caused most of the OIL C.O to pull out with the exception of Amoco & Texaco, of which the latter pulled out eventually, causing him to nationalize the OIL (trintoc.& NP).

that's why most boisious in T&T hate the PNM, it's BC Williams tried to take the power they wielded for so long and create an equal playing field for every race, especially his own.that's why he invested so much money in education and educational programmes in T&T. it's a shame to see all his hard work and labor go down the drain by some cowering spineless rum drinkers like Robbie , panday & manning, who let the mongoose back in the hen house!               positive.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 03:37:01 PM by just cool »
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline kounty

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nice histpry lesson jc...but I don't think sensorship is the way.  I guess you talking about violence in T'dad.  what is the root of violence and crime? I think inequality is the biggest factor. I think when you have whole cross-sections of the society who feel like the only hope for them to live a 'comfortable' life...well they feel like it ent really have no hope at all.  people feel like the system not designed for them to succeed.  whaz the statistic here in the US - children of parents who attended college are 5 times more likely to go to college.  transfer that statistic to trinidad, and children who parents didn't get any passes in secondary schools.  what they going and grow up to be?  they want cell phones that could play videos too right?  You know, I kinda comin to understand people form your generation and TT generation and my mother generation who voting today based on what PNM do for Trinidad through williams...and I must admit I am grateful.  But I gfrow up ina generation of Chambers and manning.  come on manning put his wife as minister of education.  his wife have a masters degree in something like History.  In the states every kindergarten teacher have a masters degreee.  she is responsible for the education of the population of trinidad and tobago.  from the way people talk about williams, I don't think he would have allow the ministry to support a policy where all the brightest kids were plucked out of classrooms when they are 10 years old and put together and let them learn faster....conveniently at the same time these are also the kids whose parents have the extra money to pump into the school to match what the government give to all schools across the board.  the finest computer lab in the caribbean.  while the rest of duncee head children who actually really need all the extra resources?  whaT is their hope? trinidad have the brightest students in the world they say.  americans so f'kin dumb.  we going and be a 1st wirld country so I better build up my palace...with rugs from Shiraz and sofas from Parma.  oil money flowin we are like saudi arabia.  what does manning stand for? we going to be 1st world just now so we goin and run smakc dab into the kyoto protocol and then they will require us to cut emissions.  i always tell my mum - shake yuh balisier and go to all the free fetes.  maybe that is the plan, to keep the people dumb, so you could tell them dumb crap and they will shake dey balisier.  panday...well worse yet...I ent even goin' dey.  but what you expect from a society that rotten at the head?

truetrini

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Now I have to step in her and say that the old talk about Eric supporting the coup, is jes dat old talk, in fact it bordering on shit talk!

Eric Williams did NOT support no coup.

The mutineers demanded military trial conducted by military men...Mike bazie, rex la salle and Raffique Shah and 90 other soldiers were chared with various charges, mutiny and sedition being the most serious.

When those men attempted to come out of tetron, the TT CG led by a young admiral kelshall..he was a lieutenant then shelled de hills from the TTS Trinity and drove dem back to tetron, they did have some men in de Diego Martin hills doh.

Karl Hudson Phillips led the government case against the men, and the following men from afica made up the tribunal to try dem...

1.  Colonel Theophilus Yakubu Danjuma.   Nigeria
2.  Colonel Ignatius Acheampong.                Ghana
3.  Major Obitre-Gama                                     Uganda   (in de middle ah de trial he leave to go and help Idi amin overthrow dem government)  lol

What is ironic is de men de governemnt brought over to try dem fellas were all part of coups in dere own countries and some were eventually over thrown in coups demselves!

 Gladys Gaffoor try dem fellas inside de police station, when yuh ever hear ah shit like dat before.
it was ha real heavyweight trial between de best T&T had at the time, Guerra, Karl and bruce porcrop versus, Wharton aenas wills and desmond allum and ah man name Atta Kuufe (sp)
anyway de mutineers lose and get heavy jail time, ah believe dey had two trials, and de second was overseen wby men from de commonwealth too.  Rex get 15 years, Shah get 20 and Bazie get 8years ah think.  de odders get lighter sentences.

Dey win on appeal becasue some matters of law were not adhered too and Eric wanted dem retried but lose de case at de Privy council!
The State appealed that ruling, but the Privy Council dismissed it without even hearing the defence team.

Doh feel Eric had any part, he hated dem fellas and wanted dem put away for a very long time.

In fact why yuh think he support Eric gairy and had no love for Maurice bishop?  eric did not support any kinda coup ting fella!

de history lesson skewed!

And yow, eric have support behind de bridge becasue he let dem in from St Vincent and grenada...not dignity breds, doh get tied up.

He say massa day done, he privatize all de oil industires, fail tuh re-new de lease in Chaguramas and yet yuh say he had to let de shtit continue until we get to be ah republic...yuh contradict yuhself.

eric did much, but he also f**k up much.

when he stand in WOODFORD Square...not trafalger Square and say, "massa day done, who doh like it get tuh hell outta here!"  He failed to have ah proper infrastrucutre in place so de oil refinery and dem run into de ground, he chase de white man out bu didnt have nuff black men tuh run de ting.

and fuh all he wuk making we  ah republic, he did not make we more independent, we had Koreans like mad in T&T bulling down de place, kising each odder in globe cinema (ah see dat with meh own eyes), we had man like francis prevatt, o halloran and dr, Owai tiefing we blind...colonialism done, but de tiefing start!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 12:01:15 AM by Jack_Manday »

Offline WestCoast

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But I grow up in generation of Chambers and manning.  come on manning put his wife as minister of education.  his wife have a masters degree in something like History.  In the states every kindergarten teacher have a masters degree.  she is responsible for the education of the population of Trinidad and Tobago.  from the way people talk about Williams, I don't think he would have allow the ministry to support a policy where all the brightest kids were plucked out of classrooms when they are 10 years old and put together and let them learn faster....conveniently at the same time these are also the kids whose parents have the extra money to pump into the school to match what the government give to all schools across the board.  the finest computer lab in the Caribbean.  while the rest of duncee head children who actually really need all the extra resources?  what is their hope? Trinidad have the brightest students in the world they say.  Americans so f'kin dumb.  we going and be a 1st world country so I better build up my palace...with rugs from Shiraz and sofas from Parma.  oil money flowin we are like Saudi Arabia.  what does manning stand for? we going to be 1st world just now so we goin and run smack dab into the Kyoto protocol and then they will require us to cut emissions.  i always tell my mum - shake yuh balisier and go to all the free fetes.  maybe that is the plan, to keep the people dumb, so you could tell them dumb crap and they will shake dey balisier.  panday...well worse yet...I ent even goin' dey.  but what you expect from a society that rotten at the head?
dah ent songen right
Education for all...No?

Williams was damn good for TnT

when he stand in WOODFORD Square...not Trafalgar Square and say, "massa day done, who doh like it get tuh hell outta here!"  He failed to have ah proper infrastructure in place so de oil refinery and dem run into de ground, he chase de white man out bu didnt have nuff black men tuh run de ting.

and fuh all he wuk making we  ah republic, he did not make we more independent, we had Koreans like mad in T&T bulling down de place, kising each odder in globe cinema (ah see dat with meh own eyes), we had man like francis prevatt, o halloran and dr, Owai tiefing we blind...colonialism done, but de tiefing start!
ya doh tink he set Erica up wid some money some where?

anyway, how else could he have done things differently....I ent kno nuh, wha ya think?
maybe if he did not come right out and phrase it the way he did but implement the changes necessary, then, would that be one way?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 12:47:02 AM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline just cool

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Manday as i said before and i'll say it again, you is a man i have nuff respact for, and BTW thank you for the info. now! i know for a fact that eric had a hand in the coup of 1970 , but i would not reveal my sources out of respect for my parents. my grand father and the doc was drinking buddies, as a matter of fact they grew up in the same area and used to brush the same woman on sackville st simultaniously, so i have some inside info on his ploicies.

the doc was kinda worthless according to my sources . but he loved his country and wanted us to be competitive on the world market , that was his goal. but fellas like kamal, cuthbert and fellow ministers didn't live up to his expectation, and was not pulling their weight, so the doc became depressed and lost intrest, thus the reason for putting up with ohallaran and CO.

one other thing, when he said massa day done , i aggre with you that it was woodford square , but he stood in traffalger square and said the white man is a devil, if you don't believe me then look it up and you will see for your self. eric was a socialist at heart and idolized castro , but could'nt come out the closet with his true allegence BC of his desire to move forward with out any foreign interferance by the US or britain. i respect the doc, and the one thing i could say for sure , is that he stood up to the powers that be and emplore wisdom as well as subtlilty in the face of danger,of which i find him to be our knight in shining armor, as oppossed to these clowns who called them selves leaders.                            positive.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline fishs

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 JC all this music and movies that we say are bad influences and contributing to crime to me is a non starter.
Since I know myself serious crimes being committed in TT. Murders, rapes, armed robbery etc. All this before rap music, dance hall, the violent movies etc. In my day there were violent movies also and music.
What happened is it went largely unchecked by the powers that be and coupled with the escalating drug trade, the easy way to get guns and corruption it get outta hand now.
All this thing about parenting etc is all good, but TT always had and will always have errant parents who doh give ah damn about their offspring because nobody gave ah damn about them.
I sure over 90 % of the parents inTT trying to do their best with their kids, so I doh see the "parenting " thing as nothing more than the "good" people blaming the " bad" people for the chidren who go rotten.
Given that I think national service should be made compulsory for children that fall into certain categories. Primary school drop outs etc.
Put these kids in a quasi military organisation that will look after them and raise their well being and there will be a massive change.
From a personal experience I remember a youth who was big and bad and always running away from the orphanage and getting in trouble (I knew him because my nieghbors somehow knew his parents and would have him for the holidays). As soon as he reached 16 mih neighbour who was a Revenue District Warden organise and get him in the army.
Today he no longer in the army, he reach the level of sargeant and retire and now living with his wife and 2 children (who real bright) in a middle class district. He works as a security trainer/ consultant for numerous companies in TT.
All the money TT have and a army that 3000 strong and we cyar take 500 odd youths into a system every year and train them and give them a feeling of worth?
Ah want de woman on de bass

Offline Bakes

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 JC all this music and movies that we say are bad influences and contributing to crime to me is a non starter.
Since I know myself serious crimes being committed in TT. Murders, rapes, armed robbery etc. All this before rap music, dance hall, the violent movies etc. In my day there were violent movies also and music.
What happened is it went largely unchecked by the powers that be and coupled with the escalating drug trade, the easy way to get guns and corruption it get outta hand now.
All this thing about parenting etc is all good, but TT always had and will always have errant parents who doh give ah damn about their offspring because nobody gave ah damn about them.
I sure over 90 % of the parents inTT trying to do their best with their kids, so I doh see the "parenting " thing as nothing more than the "good" people blaming the " bad" people for the chidren who go rotten.
Given that I think national service should be made compulsory for children that fall into certain categories. Primary school drop outs etc.
Put these kids in a quasi military organisation that will look after them and raise their well being and there will be a massive change.
From a personal experience I remember a youth who was big and bad and always running away from the orphanage and getting in trouble (I knew him because my nieghbors somehow knew his parents and would have him for the holidays). As soon as he reached 16 mih neighbour who was a Revenue District Warden organise and get him in the army.
Today he no longer in the army, he reach the level of sargeant and retire and now living with his wife and 2 children (who real bright) in a middle class district. He works as a security trainer/ consultant for numerous companies in TT.
All the money TT have and a army that 3000 strong and we cyar take 500 odd youths into a system every year and train them and give them a feeling of worth?

You seem to be dismissive of the notion that parents are to blame for their kids waywardness...yet you present nothing in your argument that really buffets that notion.  You simplify the issue as 'good' parents blaming 'bad parents', but blame game aside the point is that children actually do live what they learn...and as noble an idea it is to send them to the military to "straighten dem out"....all we may end up with is a bunch of bad-ass, no-good criminals with army fatigues and sub-machine guns running around the country.  Why wait until the tree is almost full-grown to straighten it?  Any corrective measures you employ are really peripheral to good-parenting, and conscription simply isn't the best solution.

You can't force bad parents to be good, especially if their deficit is really no fault of their own, but the fact remains that bad parenting is a huge cause of much of the malaise we experience.

truetrini

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Just Cool, I find it very difficult to believe that eric was anything close to a socialist.  He did NOT like Castro in my opinion AND HE DESPISED COMMUNISM.  ANYONE WHO HAS READ HIS BOOKS WILL KNOW WHAT I AM TALKIN ABOUT.

Now williams was  amn after my own heart and cared little about Church and religion!..He had famous battles with Dom basil and he was called a communist because of his stance on birth control etc.  Hell he was friends with a noted communist called George padmore(born malcolm Nurse)  and it is rumoured that padmore and CLR james helped Eric write the draft constitution for the new country of Trinidad .  padmore later renounce Communism.

But communist he was not.

Are you aware that the 1970 attempted coup in T&T was led by students of Fidel castr's brand of communism?  are you aware that williams asked the US abassador at the time to land US marines in T&T then changed his mind (this according to the US emabssy).

are you aware that a warrant for Eric s arrest was in effect in Miami for missing wife support payments?

are you aware dat Eric hated America and americasn but was close firends with the US ambassador Fife Symington?  ah mean real close friends dat he was always in de man house liming?  And dat was de man he BEG fuh US marines when Shah and La salle revolted becasue dey wanted communism in T&T?

During the Blac k ower movement in 1970-1972 Williams and de PNm was undre heavy attack, Eric call state ah emergency, addressed the nation for the first time in 5 years and roundly rejected liberal capitalism and communism as well as socialism!

The OPNM was losing de electorate and Eric make moves to counter dat by nationalising ah set ah industries, from telecommunications to oil!  He even went so far as to pay the fines of the strudents in canada university revolt.  He was scared doh and buy arms from de US and Veezuela for de army.  he even had tuh deal with ANR leaving de cabinet and PNM...

Yuh aware dat eric had resigned from de government and Karl was niminated to succeed as PM , but Eric make ah tack back...in 1971. Tings was real bad, de country was bankrupt and den came OPEC and de oil boom.

Eric spend plenty money distracting de population and den de opposition was so much like de opposition now dat he sweep all 36b seats.

De oil boom and de fact dat Indians in T&T refused to join de black power movement, dey say"  We eh black we is indian, black power only mean negroe power."  caused the b;ack power movement to crumble.  

Eric win again!
as did the canadain baks and the whte man in T&T.  Dat is why I always say T&T never really gain independence, we used to be highly dependent on England, canada and Europe fuh we ood back den and now tings eh change ah whole lot.

Offline capodetutticapi

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what trini need now is to manhandle the current crime situation,and as i said over and over reform the so called police,and most importantly,invest time in developing the upcomin generation by stressin on education,de love of family and instill de love of de lord.mine you this eh happenin overnite or next month or even 2 or 3 years.them fukkers too far gone.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline ribbit

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jc, you make a good point. is mostly garbage coming across the media these days - all kind of madness, negativity, irrationality and is passing for TRUTH! i went pennsylvania which hosts 20% of all US colleges and i turn on the radio and is a creationist program pushing religious doctrine as science. high school students doh know how to make a sentence much less an argument. met a teacher and she say most boys in her class wanted to either play in the nba or be a rapper.

this is a culture of perpetual distraction. limiting outside influence makes good sense.

Offline fishs

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 JC all this music and movies that we say are bad influences and contributing to crime to me is a non starter.
Since I know myself serious crimes being committed in TT. Murders, rapes, armed robbery etc. All this before rap music, dance hall, the violent movies etc. In my day there were violent movies also and music.
What happened is it went largely unchecked by the powers that be and coupled with the escalating drug trade, the easy way to get guns and corruption it get outta hand now.
All this thing about parenting etc is all good, but TT always had and will always have errant parents who doh give ah damn about their offspring because nobody gave ah damn about them.
I sure over 90 % of the parents inTT trying to do their best with their kids, so I doh see the "parenting " thing as nothing more than the "good" people blaming the " bad" people for the chidren who go rotten.
Given that I think national service should be made compulsory for children that fall into certain categories. Primary school drop outs etc.
Put these kids in a quasi military organisation that will look after them and raise their well being and there will be a massive change.
From a personal experience I remember a youth who was big and bad and always running away from the orphanage and getting in trouble (I knew him because my nieghbors somehow knew his parents and would have him for the holidays). As soon as he reached 16 mih neighbour who was a Revenue District Warden organise and get him in the army.
Today he no longer in the army, he reach the level of sargeant and retire and now living with his wife and 2 children (who real bright) in a middle class district. He works as a security trainer/ consultant for numerous companies in TT.
All the money TT have and a army that 3000 strong and we cyar take 500 odd youths into a system every year and train them and give them a feeling of worth?

You seem to be dismissive of the notion that parents are to blame for their kids waywardness...yet you present nothing in your argument that really buffets that notion.  You simplify the issue as 'good' parents blaming 'bad parents', but blame game aside the point is that children actually do live what they learn...and as noble an idea it is to send them to the military to "straighten dem out"....all we may end up with is a bunch of bad-ass, no-good criminals with army fatigues and sub-machine guns running around the country.  Why wait until the tree is almost full-grown to straighten it?  Any corrective measures you employ are really peripheral to good-parenting, and conscription simply isn't the best solution.

You can't force bad parents to be good, especially if their deficit is really no fault of their own, but the fact remains that bad parenting is a huge cause of much of the malaise we experience.


Somehow we always seem to get our lines crossed.
There are Bad parents out there and the kids that turn out bad are as a result of that. These kids in turn become Bad parents.
That is fact and is life as we know it now.
The true example I used is how 1 "bad" kid was able to become a " good " parent and citizen.
We cannot do anything about the "bad" parents but we can attempt to do something about the kids.
Simple solution to the problem of bad parents is to take the kids away from them and train them. This is easiest done when they are about to become teens because we don't have public institutions that exist to take them earlier, the orphanages would not be able to handle the numbers.
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Somehow we always seem to get our lines crossed.
There are Bad parents out there and the kids that turn out bad are as a result of that. These kids in turn become Bad parents.
That is fact and is life as we know it now.
The true example I used is how 1 "bad" kid was able to become a " good " parent and citizen.
We cannot do anything about the "bad" parents but we can attempt to do something about the kids.
Simple solution to the problem of bad parents is to take the kids away from them and train them. This is easiest done when they are about to become teens because we don't have public institutions that exist to take them earlier, the orphanages would not be able to handle the numbers.

I won't go as far as to say all that, a lot of times I read what you have to say and I find myself in agreement with it.  I get what you're saying here and you may be on to something.  Whether this is actually feasible as an idea though may be another issue.

Offline fishs

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Somehow we always seem to get our lines crossed.
There are Bad parents out there and the kids that turn out bad are as a result of that. These kids in turn become Bad parents.
That is fact and is life as we know it now.
The true example I used is how 1 "bad" kid was able to become a " good " parent and citizen.
We cannot do anything about the "bad" parents but we can attempt to do something about the kids.
Simple solution to the problem of bad parents is to take the kids away from them and train them. This is easiest done when they are about to become teens because we don't have public institutions that exist to take them earlier, the orphanages would not be able to handle the numbers.

I won't go as far as to say all that, a lot of times I read what you have to say and I find myself in agreement with it.  I get what you're saying here and you may be on to something.  Whether this is actually feasible as an idea though may be another issue.

This is what I'm alluding to B&S.
This reality, a generation , sorry another generation on the verge of being lost. 

Life on the Beetham

One in three households headed by women.
Half of the children are underachieving academically.
Parents in these homes mostly absent or out of control or themselves ‘lost.’
The Beetham? Isn’t that the housing development you pass on the left on the way to the airport before you fly off to “Mee-ami?” The place that Pat Bishop did her best to pretty-up by planting some trees and flowers in front of it?

The one they parked the train in front of so that the Queen could not see it on her entrance to the fabled city of Port-of-Spain, the “sophisticated capital city unrivalled as the business, financial, diplomatic and judicial hub of the Caribbean—with a skyline to match?”

The Beetham, officially named by someone with a weird sense of humour Beetham Gardens, is little known if only because of the stench and dust that it lives with because it’s also adjacent to the Labasse, where we dump our garbage.

It’s the place where they say you have to drive carefully whenever a dump truck arrives because of a set of young men running across the highway to put down a “wuk.” Never stop there they say, they will strip you and your car like piranha. Drive on your rims!

What is it like to grow up there? What sort of life do children have there?

Someone has actually looked at this. Not a local, no, no, we locals aren’t interested in research like that. A foreigner “had was to do it.”

Thanks foreigner.

Some interesting facts: one in three households are headed by women and not necessarily the mother, since in 79 per cent of them, a parent is absent. In most of them there is no home supervision of children. A parent has died in one in five.

One in eight have a parent in jail. In 35 per cent there is active domestic violence or “extreme aggression in the home,” meaning cuff-down and “bodow-bodow.”

Half of the children are underachieving academically and half have a diagnosable mental health disorder. Almost half of the families have someone who is formally employed, 30 per cent are unemployed (2003 figures) and 25 per cent are self-employed.

Incomes average under $3,000 a month. Most people either rent (40 per cent) or own (36 per cent) their homes; 18 per cent are squatting.

So what is life like for a child?

Let the children speak for themselves.

James is aged seven. He lives with his mother, stepfather, seven sibs, three uncles and two cousins. He has this to say:

“All my big cousins has guns and bullet-proofs and tings...there’s lots of shootings and teefin. Mummy say stay in de yard, if I go down the road I could pick up a stray bullet.”

He recently “took” money from another child at school and is said to be having difficulty concentrating in class.

A little girl, Samantha, age six, has been “checking out” during school since the death of her teenage brother two months ago. He was shot and killed not far from their home. He was the one who used to accompany her on her daily walk to school.

Pat is 13 years old. One day she brought her packed bags with her to school. She was planning to run away at the end of the school day.

Strife at home had reached “an all-time high,” with her mother attending to “yet another new man” in her life, her blind grandmother custodian increasingly unable to meet the needs of a difficult adolescent and the recent arrival of two uncles, a cousin and an aunt with a new baby to share the already cramped home.

She is still trying to cope with the death of her father, whom she barely knew, of Aids. Her teacher reports she is unwilling and unmotivated to learn.

Twelve-year old-twins Arthur and Anderson have difficulties learning. Whilst one of the twins was being interviewed, he sucked his thumb. He spends most of his free time cleaning his room, sweeping the yard and organising household objects.

His more articulate and brighter brother describes a chaotic home life where an older sister recently died in childbirth and his stepfather lashes them frequently.

In 2005, our GDP increased by 6.5 per cent, a sign of positive growth for the 12th consecutive year. Despite this, ours is a society threatened by a number of social challenges, not the least of which is the way our children are being brought up.

In the midst of billion-dollar expenditures on developing T&T into a so-called “first world nation,” without any thought being give as to what constitutes a “first world nation,” vulnerable children such as these in the Beetham and other communities are too often finding themselves underdeveloped, disempowered and “lost.”

Parents in these homes were mostly absent or out of control or themselves “lost.” Having an out-of-control parent is one of the most fearful of all experiences that a child can ever experience.

To attempt economic development without taking into account the needs of children to learn, to grow and be molded into a fully functioning, contributing citizen is a travesty of governance. We are already paying for it and we will continue to pay for it.
 
©2005-2006 Trinidad
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Offline kounty

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well look how schopid me taut 1st world judged by how much cell phone the average trini have.   well we reachin close to 3 now...one more and we goh hit the mark.  vision 20-20!

 

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