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Offline A.B.

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Might be time to switch gears
« on: February 06, 2008, 11:02:02 PM »
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=161274721

(Count how mnay 16th place, 11th place and 12th place finishes you can find - at these BS meets!)

Coach Ashwin Creed brought this up to me last year and I brushed it off and didn't pay much attention to it, but after reading this tonight it struck me again....Indoor NCAAs are about a month away, and we have one maybe 2 athletes TOTAL in US schools who are running decent times.

An article like this one in the Express shows an almost total, across the board failure of the US system to develop any of our talent....how many athletes factored into outdoor NCAAs last year? ONE! Rhonda Watkins who won NCAAs - in the long jump! No TNT athlete was any real threat to win anything on the track last year.....NOT ONE!

and if you think that is pure opinion, consider recent history -

Kelly-Ann Baptiste, who has stagnated/regressed at LSU, or the 3 we had at Auburn (3 of our best young talents, ever!) Brown, Burns and Fana Ashby who did not develop as expected, Brown eventually having to leave, Ashby ending up in the scrap heap, Burns is now close to being only a lane-filler.

Something is happening to our talent that is not happening to other countries' and no-one, myself included, is able to figure it out...A Bahamian basketballer with zero experience walked on to a college team for the high jump and in 2 years is now world champion - Jamaica as usual churns them out every year winning the NCAA mens 400, womens 200 and a lot in between .....Jamaica even got silver in the decathlon last year at worlds!

Are our athletes getting too comfortable under their nice fat scholarships? are they not being coached properly? Are they being over-worked/over raced as has been suggested - if so why does Jamaica and other islands seem to be doing so much better....is it because the Jamaicans are used to meets every week, so the US system isn't quite that much of a step up in output? Or is that just because they have more athletes in the system, that it seems that way....

THE question becomes - do we need to set up a system ala Asafa Powell where a talented TRACK athlete does not have to leave TNT and can stay at home and train at a HIGH PERFORMANCE centre locally, compete regionally and be sponsored by the corporate community/gov't ??? Will that even work? What if that is put in place and under-used, or does not work?? Then what?

Really want some insightful feedback from you all please, maybe I am too close to it or too emotionally involved to see properly...

P.S if u think is joke read this part of the article again and tell me if you notice anything about these results, 'cuz I did...

Trinidad and Tobago's Sheron Mark was twice in winners' row at the Syracuse Invitational, in New York, USA, on the weekend. The Syracuse University student won the women's triple jump with a 12.57 metres effort and the long jump with a 5.94m leap.

At the Titan Open, in Illinois, Lindenwood University's Kevin Huggins cleared the bar at 2.06m to top the men's high jump field. Huggins also competed in the long jump, finishing 11th with a 5.80m effort.


« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 11:14:18 PM by A.B. »
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Offline Trini _2026

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Re: Might be time to switch gears
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2008, 12:53:50 AM »
Ato i think baptiste was injured last year but she was a favorite ...... for the out doors she open the season with 11.22 out doors ... she had that back injury and they ran her in the penn relay in 3 events  still  the 100  4*100 4*200 prelims and finals ...  she recovering i think comming back into fitness i think...


Most of those athletes i never heard and they just doing it for education .. well   this guy was so injury prone now mashed up bad now look  at the times he running now :-[ :-[

Dion Rodriguez bagged double bronze, the Bowie State University sprinter finishing third in the men's 60m and 200m events. In the shorter sprint, Rodriguez got home in 6.94 seconds--three-hundredths of a second slower than his preliminary round clocking--while in the 200m he stopped the clock in 22.35 seconds
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 12:56:07 AM by Trini _2010 »
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Offline A.B.

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Re: Might be time to switch gears
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2008, 04:09:44 AM »
Baptiste has declined...injuries such as hers are from being overworked....this year is her last year so this is it if she doesn't figure it out....

Yuh ent notice the man long jump in my post was less than the woman's???  :'(
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Offline willi

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Re: Might be time to switch gears
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2008, 08:23:57 AM »
Most talented athletes should leave TnT, but the US is not the answer...if they go there to be comfortable. Recall when you first went to LA and was too comfortable???

Anyway, we mix cases here.

LSU is trouble for all, so we all can see what is the issue there. This issue has been debated to death on the Carib site. LSU graduates wont amount to anything afterwards, cause LSU eats the athlete up! Some Jakans extend it to most/all US colleges, but the evidence does not support this.

For TnT to be in the mix, you need to get the number of contenders up...you need to fill the pipeline more, as not all will make it. The Bah LJer is a freak occurance, so dont overstrees it.

Bah probably spends more on their athletes per capita than TnT, so its not just money the is the cause of complacency in athletes. I think that its partly cultural and partly due to the relative lack of current role models. After DB abd Burns went to the US, they were less mollycuddled and that may have been hard to handle. Also, since the track culture in TnT is a bit weak, it may have been a case of out of sight out of mind. Bah has a stronger culture of track and like Jamaica, tabs are kept on all athletes everywhere.

Your NAAA needs to get off their butts and figure it out.


Offline Swima

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Re: Might be time to switch gears
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2008, 08:43:24 AM »
Had this conversation with Shastri Roberts the other day from (yes as usual) a swimming perspective, and i think it is high time we modernize sport on the whole in the country to dispell the notion that leaving the country to go literally anywhere in the US will enable an athlete to be world class. The truth is that when our athletes go to US colleges they are subject to their system and schedule; a similar sentiment expressed in the article which was published a few weeks ago. What I think is even more important or more pertinent is that we understand that the correct environment is of equal importance as the correct coach. I for one, no longer subscribe to an athlete having to train outside of the region to become a world beater, not in any sport. We have had coaches around the region in various sports produce world beaters in several sports, from track to cycling, to boxing to swimming. It is high time we look at pooling together some sort of talent base coaching wise to provide an academy of elite athletes so that the region can benefit as a whole. I know Anil Roberts attempted to do this with swiming and with Browne at MVP I see that as the type of environment that can enhance not only Jamaican talent but the region as a whole. Ato's skills as a coach could create yet another stable. To me it seems only logical that we approach it regionally. It increases competition within the stables and makes the corps a better unit. Keep it local and let it serve the dual interests of the athletes and the region, not the colleges that don't give a rats ass about us.
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Offline Trini _2026

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Re: Might be time to switch gears
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2008, 11:44:10 AM »
Baptiste has declined...injuries such as hers are from being overworked....this year is her last year so this is it if she doesn't figure it out....

Yuh ent notice the man long jump in my post was less than the woman's???  :'(

yeah i notice

Ato what can you say about thompson? he has improved baptiste will get he act together .. she need to shake of that injury and get fully fit
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Offline A.B.

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Re: Might be time to switch gears
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2008, 12:56:31 PM »
Thompson looked good at Millrose and had some nice runs at Osaka last year, yes both he and KAB I expect to do well this year on the track, Brown as well.
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Offline fLaSh

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Re: Might be time to switch gears
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2008, 09:07:58 AM »
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=161274721

(Count how mnay 16th place, 11th place and 12th place finishes you can find - at these BS meets!)

Coach Ashwin Creed brought this up to me last year and I brushed it off and didn't pay much attention to it, but after reading this tonight it struck me again....Indoor NCAAs are about a month away, and we have one maybe 2 athletes TOTAL in US schools who are running decent times.

An article like this one in the Express shows an almost total, across the board failure of the US system to develop any of our talent....how many athletes factored into outdoor NCAAs last year? ONE! Rhonda Watkins who won NCAAs - in the long jump! No TNT athlete was any real threat to win anything on the track last year.....NOT ONE!

and if you think that is pure opinion, consider recent history -

Kelly-Ann Baptiste, who has stagnated/regressed at LSU, or the 3 we had at Auburn (3 of our best young talents, ever!) Brown, Burns and Fana Ashby who did not develop as expected, Brown eventually having to leave, Ashby ending up in the scrap heap, Burns is now close to being only a lane-filler.

Something is happening to our talent that is not happening to other countries' and no-one, myself included, is able to figure it out...A Bahamian basketballer with zero experience walked on to a college team for the high jump and in 2 years is now world champion - Jamaica as usual churns them out every year winning the NCAA mens 400, womens 200 and a lot in between .....Jamaica even got silver in the decathlon last year at worlds!

Are our athletes getting too comfortable under their nice fat scholarships? are they not being coached properly? Are they being over-worked/over raced as has been suggested - if so why does Jamaica and other islands seem to be doing so much better....is it because the Jamaicans are used to meets every week, so the US system isn't quite that much of a step up in output? Or is that just because they have more athletes in the system, that it seems that way....

THE question becomes - do we need to set up a system ala Asafa Powell where a talented TRACK athlete does not have to leave TNT and can stay at home and train at a HIGH PERFORMANCE centre locally, compete regionally and be sponsored by the corporate community/gov't ??? Will that even work? What if that is put in place and under-used, or does not work?? Then what?

Really want some insightful feedback from you all please, maybe I am too close to it or too emotionally involved to see properly...

P.S if u think is joke read this part of the article again and tell me if you notice anything about these results, 'cuz I did...

Trinidad and Tobago's Sheron Mark was twice in winners' row at the Syracuse Invitational, in New York, USA, on the weekend. The Syracuse University student won the women's triple jump with a 12.57 metres effort and the long jump with a 5.94m leap.

At the Titan Open, in Illinois, Lindenwood University's Kevin Huggins cleared the bar at 2.06m to top the men's high jump field. Huggins also competed in the long jump, finishing 11th with a 5.80m effort.




Ato I don't know if this is as much a system problem as it is a personality/cultural problem. I know from first hand experience many of these athletes go abroad and play de arse. No coach or parents to monitor their every move in little T&T so they want to eat/drink/lime/brush down de place when they in foreign. That's why many of them are returning times and distances inferior to what they were doing before they even  left here. No way Dion Rodriguez should ever be running a 60m in above seven seconds at this stage of his "development"

Think about it...the Jamaicans and Bahamians are thriving in the same system so it probably ain't the system. It comes down to the individual athletes wanting to reach the absolute pinnacle and being willing to make the necessary sacrifices. If you think ah lie check some ah dem Hi5 and Facebook pages and look at de pictures. Hardly the model of sober, well rested athletes.

I agree though that our Secondary School Structure is too short. School Sports, District Sports, National Games...FINITO! I think we should start emulating the US collegiate match meets. Let's see El Do vs St. Augustine, Scarborough Sec vs Signal Hill, etc. A local High Performance Centre can work but not if athletes think they can be in Zen and 51 every weekend.

Ato...this ain't rocket science. I want you to think hard about the many sacrifices you made throughout your career and compare to our current crop. Shit...I remember reading something about you giving up drink Fruit Juices in your last couple years! Don't know if that true but if it is, how many of our athletes will do that? Some ah them still wouldn't stop BURNing John Capel style...if you know what ah mean. I've told you privately many times that I'll give Trinis two Olympics before they start to miss you...mouth and all. This is exactly why I made that statement

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Re: Might be time to switch gears
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2008, 09:11:49 AM »
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=161274721

(Count how mnay 16th place, 11th place and 12th place finishes you can find - at these BS meets!)

Coach Ashwin Creed brought this up to me last year and I brushed it off and didn't pay much attention to it, but after reading this tonight it struck me again....Indoor NCAAs are about a month away, and we have one maybe 2 athletes TOTAL in US schools who are running decent times.

An article like this one in the Express shows an almost total, across the board failure of the US system to develop any of our talent....how many athletes factored into outdoor NCAAs last year? ONE! Rhonda Watkins who won NCAAs - in the long jump! No TNT athlete was any real threat to win anything on the track last year.....NOT ONE!

and if you think that is pure opinion, consider recent history -

Kelly-Ann Baptiste, who has stagnated/regressed at LSU, or the 3 we had at Auburn (3 of our best young talents, ever!) Brown, Burns and Fana Ashby who did not develop as expected, Brown eventually having to leave, Ashby ending up in the scrap heap, Burns is now close to being only a lane-filler.

Something is happening to our talent that is not happening to other countries' and no-one, myself included, is able to figure it out...A Bahamian basketballer with zero experience walked on to a college team for the high jump and in 2 years is now world champion - Jamaica as usual churns them out every year winning the NCAA mens 400, womens 200 and a lot in between .....Jamaica even got silver in the decathlon last year at worlds!

Are our athletes getting too comfortable under their nice fat scholarships? are they not being coached properly? Are they being over-worked/over raced as has been suggested - if so why does Jamaica and other islands seem to be doing so much better....is it because the Jamaicans are used to meets every week, so the US system isn't quite that much of a step up in output? Or is that just because they have more athletes in the system, that it seems that way....

THE question becomes - do we need to set up a system ala Asafa Powell where a talented TRACK athlete does not have to leave TNT and can stay at home and train at a HIGH PERFORMANCE centre locally, compete regionally and be sponsored by the corporate community/gov't ??? Will that even work? What if that is put in place and under-used, or does not work?? Then what?

Really want some insightful feedback from you all please, maybe I am too close to it or too emotionally involved to see properly...

P.S if u think is joke read this part of the article again and tell me if you notice anything about these results, 'cuz I did...

Trinidad and Tobago's Sheron Mark was twice in winners' row at the Syracuse Invitational, in New York, USA, on the weekend. The Syracuse University student won the women's triple jump with a 12.57 metres effort and the long jump with a 5.94m leap:o

At the Titan Open, in Illinois, Lindenwood University's Kevin Huggins cleared the bar at 2.06m to top the men's high jump field. Huggins also competed in the long jump, finishing 11th with a 5.80m effort.
  :o



To be honest when I was coaching High Schoo; Track teams in Germany Long jump. I had two students jumping 6m Maybe I should go into professional coaching
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Offline A.B.

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Re: Might be time to switch gears
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2008, 01:35:03 PM »
Trinis miss me? LOL u mad? Me give up juice? Boy, Fruta was writing big cheques you mad or what...


But u right about the comfort thing because without naming names, I know very well that certain athletes would have had no choice but to succeed in LA because it was perform every day and be disciplined and then the $ and other things came after that, and as I said I blame myself to a certain extent because these athletes were youths who saw me with the trappings o my success and said yeah I for dat, not realizing I had 2 olympic medals and a WC medal b4 I even left university so I think the details got lost on some of them...typical of MOST of this generation - I want everything yesterday, and no I dont want to work for it, thanks.

Men have 3 and 4 cars, bling, and not a single world or olympic medal individually....that could never make sense.....you cant stay hungry by keeping yourself comfortable.  Lauryn Williams is probably the best example of this...she has Olympic silver worlds gold but if you see her life/lifestyle she does not get too "soft" as a result.....? Every year she is a threat....she hasn't been OFF the podium since 2004(silver) 2005 (100 gold) 2007 (100 silver) there is a big lesson in that....too bad most dont get it.....Tyson Gay ran 19.62 last year, 9.7 windy, had one of the greatest seasons and world championships meets ever, but he is doing......3 A DAYS this year!  Like you said, it's not rocket science....work + sacrifice = results. 

I guess the conclusion we can draw is thats it's a trini mentality - let me ride this til the wheels fall off and do what is needed to get by which = the day after I lose my shoe deal I have to sell it all move back home and be nothing.

Well guess what ? After 2008, plenty men will be handing back cars and bling because post olympic year shoe companies re evaluate and the reality will hit some very hard.....

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