Gangs News Thread

[Deeks]

This is an interesting topic. Everybody seems to have answers but we are unable to find a solution to what is happening in Laventille/Morvant in particular and TT on the whole. When did this problem started to happen, why was it not "nipped in the bud". If the authorities(mostly PNM) had the foresight to send the police to make arrest (and kill) the so-called gang leaders, there would be cries of police brutality and oppression. Now the situation is out of hand we are fustrated and do not have a clue on how to stem the tide of this mayhem. You guys are correct in pointing out that the sense of community in those areas seem to be non-existent. There seems to be little prospect of gainfull employment(except CEPEP). The so-called "elders" appears not to have any influence with the "youngers".
           Blaming jam and wine soca and carnival as the root of our problem is a joke. Yes, some of our music is vulgar and total crap. But we are also force-fed a lot more vulgarity, voilence and total crap from foreign. But we claim we are helpless. That is not true. We love foreign. Local ain't good enough. TT is a country still trying to find its way culturally. The East Indians want to have their seat at the cultural table. It is a pulling and togging. Some thing is evolving. I do not not know what it is. But we are creating a culture. Just thank God that violence between the peoples has not emerge in a big way. The verdict is still out on TT. A lot of people like to compare us with JA. That is fair enough, but up to point. The racial dynamic are different. If JA was 50% East Indian or 50% white, what would there culture be like? We can only speculate.
           I from Quarry st. EDR. I used to walk POS anytime, all hours of the night, up to 10 yrs ago.  That is freedom. That is all I want to do when I go home. Well they say, I can't do that anymore. You have to be inside early o'clock and have eyes at the back of your head when you walking up the road. Fellahs, that is not freedom, that is paranoia. It have enough paranoia in DC Meto.

[rastafari]

  Together we aspire  together we achieve 

I don't know about anybody else but when i was young, i used to think that jumping up in a band with a woman was a big part of our culture. I used to see my aunties, older cousins even my mum wining in a band behind a music truck.

Now remember this is what a youthman does use as benchmark towards manhood. If yuh wine on ah woman in the band, yuh good to go that is yours for a while on the day. Carnival is a flirtacious time promoting promiscuity, fact!

Now as an adult i can see the corruption in that. I accept that most people carnival experiences when they were young are not the same. However one of the main things about carnival is that the kids are simply doing, what they see the adults have been doing.

I forget, is we culture!

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI

[Bakes]

Together we aspire  together we achieve 

I don't know about anybody else but when i was young, i used to think that jumping up in a band with a woman was a big part of our culture. I used to see my aunties, older cousins even my mum wining in a band behind a music truck.

Now remember this is what a youthman does use as benchmark towards manhood. If yuh wine on ah woman in the band, yuh good to go that is yours for a while on the day. Carnival is a flirtacious time promoting promiscuity, fact!

Now as an adult i can see the corruption in that. I accept that most people carnival experiences when they were young are not the same. However one of the main things about carnival is that the kids are simply doing, what they see the adults have been doing.

I forget, is we culture!

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI

I again fail to see your point.  Nutten wrong with wining up wid ah woman and getting yuh totee hard...I did it occasionally as ah yute when ah wasn't getting blank and I turn out fine.  Yes that is we culture, but you acting like that is what defines us or something.  We are more than just a product of our culture...we are the sum of our individual experiences, to include our experiences and upbringing at home.  I understand that as an adult you may be more conservative in your outlook now, but your own puritanical notions (I believe) are forcing you far to right of middle...condemning what you see as "slackness" and attributing all social decay to that cause...when in fact there may be no causal relationship at all.  Just your own moral leanings bearing fruit in your personal bias.

[Swima]

And it start from kiddie carnival.

Is long time i saying that Truetrini, yuh right but they won't admit that the way adults behave at carnival is a bad example because is part of we culture.

When i say that in the Danah Alleyne thread, they try to battle meh but i ended up getting my point across.

It alright for little children to wine down the place because is we culture. Some of them wining with big people.
It is right because it's our culture but it is wrong in a nightclub. What Akon did i see worse than that at carnival time with big men and little girls.

To top it off  big people are usually watching. That is we culture, one big set of hypocrites.

We culture is a culture of hypocrisy Truetrini.

Just like the men on here, who are always talking about black rights, black power, slavery, NJACC etc. Then they sleeping with the enemy. One big set of hypocrites.

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI

On the one hand we can say it starts from Kiddies Carnival, but what are we to make of the influence of outside cultures. In a naighbouring thread we discuss the influence of voilent music from outside our country influenceing the minds of our youth. Do we think kiddies carnival's influence far outweighs the recently adopted passa passa syndrome? We've seen the videos... and who ehn see could easily access a link on this board. Besides that, anyone here ever went to a water colours over the august holidays?

Overall, we may look at kiddies carnival as the reason why we have a happy go lucky attitude toward very serious issues, as TT pointed out. But to link that to Dayna is a bit of a stretch. That is simply a lack of morals among youths who have already experienced, seen or done worse.

swima I eh so sure is dat much of a stretch.  Our music tends to follow outside influences too.  Our soca is starting to sound like reggae to be truthful.  The wining on little girls by little boys frankly..to me is quite disgusting and is part of the education of youth.

To say that outside influences are soley to blame for the degeneration of our society is no doubt wrong, it is but one contributing factor.  The breakdown of the family system, particularly among the lower classes, patronage from white Hall, and an impotent police force, failure of the church to act as a moral buffer, too many smart men looking tuh tief money, a jump and wave attitude all make a dangerous brew.

Certainly there are things the government can do to improve the safety and security of citizens, like installing cameras in high profile areas, a vibrant and highly visible constabulatary, better pay and training for police and members of the defence force to including proper screening of applicants for jobs within these services.

A more powerful CoP,  a better judiciary, better protection for witnesses, more police vehicles, and a better health care system can all help decrease crime at some level.

The main issue I see that face the government is the educational system.  It has deteoriated from the time I left school to now.  I remember boys sitting down in big study groups, not beating de books eh, but assaulting them, in an effort to increase their chances at success.  If there were school yard fights it usually ended up with the combatants being on very friendly terms later on, not knifings, shootings and wholescale assaults.

There needs to be parenting classes and assistance to aprents who fall short, as well a better trained social welfare force, the social workers in T&T are f**king jokers.  I know of a case where the case worker was more interested in f**king de single mother than alleviating her stressors and helping her take care of her chirren.

Well there are more examples of what i feel the Government can do, and as far as I kow, they are taking some steps to address some of the issues I just highlighted.

Noted. Which is why I placed as much emphasis on the outside influences as well. The link between Dayna and kiddies carnival becomes a lot more watered down in my mind, but I understand what you are saying, and yes if we are to scrutinize the entire picture their are linkages everywhere, and that is why the solution has become such a difficult thing to find. We are unable to tackle the issues one step at a time.

I'll let you in on something. My degree is not in social work, though it is in Criminal Justice with a Minor in Sociology, and upon returning to T&T, I thought, why not try to get into some form of social work and see how I can lend assistance to dealing with crime especially at the youth level. Well I was outright rejected due to my degree not being in the field of study, no matter how noble my intentions were, nor my wilingness to train while being employed. Yet you will find employees within that force like the one you cited in your post still earing their pay at the end of the month. Brain drain is becoming a more popular subject every week in the papers, but the young fresh minds who want to exact change, the real patriots who say 'I have the belly to stand up to the old guard', they simply are not given a chance. At least not up until recently.

[truetrini]

see there is the problem, no vision, and no insight.  For too long we have been doing the wrong things the right way.

Trinidad needs tuh start doing the right things...and it will be easy to do it de right way!

dey coulda hire yuh and tell yuh tuh wuk part time on yuh social work degree.

dey let ah good mind float away. and I eh saying dat lightly.

I really feel dey lorse ah good and worthy employee dey.

But as we acknowledge, dat is why we in de shit we in today!

[Midknight]

Now that we have actually started talking sense, I don't really wan't this thread to die...

[Midknight]

More wood for the fire...

http://www.guardian.co.tt/ira.html

Gangs that bling

The Government does plenty for Laventille. People have Cepep, houses, water, cable, sports facilities, trade workshops, music, cookery classes, Best Village. Vanity has them shooting. The boys want a car with big music, big guns, bling.

—Laventille resident.

If it’s a war of guns, the police will lose. Lack of amenities isn’t the problem. Nor is the absence of jobs. It’s about upward mobility. Money.

Author of Freakoconomics, Stephen Levitt has analysed the economics of a cocaine-selling street gang in Chicago. Stephen Levitt believes any street gang operates like a franchise of McDonald’s or KFC. The hierarchy is flat. At the top is the local gang leader. Below him, three people: the accountant, the adviser and an enforcer/“human relations” man.

In the next tier there are the soldiers, the men working behind the counter.

Finally, there are hangers-on, young, inexperienced tag-alongs.

Levitt found the local gang leader made ten times more than he would in regular employment. The three middle managers made more than minimum wage.

The foot soldiers made less than minimum wage. Most live at home and work part-time in regular employment, in addition to being members of gangs to survive.

Apply this to Trinidad and Tobago. Interviews suggest this scenario: The young boys who are getting shot can’t afford bling. They are wearing rubber slippers, living in shacks. They are the foot soldiers and hanger-ons.

In the early 1990s, when URP was expanding, “leaders” of the programme gained control of up to five gangs.

War pay

With this government contract, instead of 20 street soldiers, he could employ 50 more with URP money. He still paid them less than minimum wage, because he is taking his cut.

Like any businessman with an excess of labour, he looks to expand. In this case, the territory where he can sell drugs.

Unfortunately, that territory is occupied by someone just like him who also has a URP contract, and is looking to expand. Because these are criminal activities, this isn’t easy.

You can’t buy them out, can’t compete and sell better goods. So you invade their territory and hold it. That’s where the guns come in. The number of guns available is a reflection of demand.

The men who in the past smuggled whiskey will bring guns. It’s just business.

What’s in it for the young boys from the age of 15? The answer is simple. With their lack of educational qualifications they will be stuck in a minimum-wage system for the rest of their lives.

So they make a rational choice for themselves. Keep one foot in the formal system such as URP, with a reasonable income, live at home, and stay in the gang, in the hopes of rising to be a gang leader, and making ten times more than minimum wage.

The odds are high for a wage hike, since he is just competing with 35 people, most of whom will die on the job, compared to a formal economy where the possibility of rising without education is zero.

In times of war, the pay goes up. War is not the interest of the top man, since sales of drugs drop, but it is in the interest of the shooters to keep war going.

The riskier the venture, the greater the pay. The more shooters attack rival gangs the more likely the boss man will make you a senior man in that territory.

The more you kill, the more social rank and power you have amongst your peers. More pay brings girls, fancy cars, music, bling. A power they would never have otherwise.

Unless the Government can quickly educate thousands of semi-literate young men countrywide, with the hope of being powerful in the formal economy, our 90-strong, mostly illiterate gangs will continue to mushroom, flourish and kill in cold blood.

[ZANDOLIE]

see there is the problem, no vision, and no insight. For too long we have been doing the wrong things the right way.

Trinidad needs tuh start doing the right things...and it will be easy to do it de right way!

dey coulda hire yuh and tell yuh tuh wuk part time on yuh social work degree.

dey let ah good mind float away. and I eh saying dat lightly.

I really feel dey lorse ah good and worthy employee dey.

But as we acknowledge, dat is why we in de shit we in today!

TT, yuh spot on here IMO

In the rush to adopt to the customs of British style social values, we have always neglected what works for us Trinbagonians. I'm not slandering the parlimentary system or other British/Eurpoean social structures, but we have inherited a system and are placing too much emphasis on fitting into its imposed structures instead of molding the system to fit our realities.

This is partly the reason America became an industrial power. They discarded much of the superflous, old world values and created institutions which were prerequisite to the expansion of both macro and micro economies and which reflected the social values of its people.

[dcs]

PART 2
Gangs that bling
by   
Ira Mathur
www.iramathur.org
Trinidad Guardian
Sunday 2nd March, 2008

The Government does plenty for Laventille. People have Cepep, houses, water, cable, sports facilities, trade workshops, music, cookery classes, Best Village. Vanity has them shooting. The boys want a car with big music, big guns, bling.

—Laventille resident.

If it’s a war of guns, the police will lose. Lack of amenities isn’t the problem. Nor is the absence of jobs. It’s about upward mobility. Money.

Author of Freakoconomics, Stephen Levitt has analysed the economics of a cocaine-selling street gang in Chicago. Stephen Levitt believes any street gang operates like a franchise of McDonald’s or KFC. The hierarchy is flat. At the top is the local gang leader. Below him, three people: the accountant, the adviser and an enforcer/“human relations” man.

In the next tier there are the soldiers, the men working behind the counter.

Finally, there are hangers-on, young, inexperienced tag-alongs.

Levitt found the local gang leader made ten times more than he would in regular employment. The three middle managers made more than minimum wage.

The foot soldiers made less than minimum wage. Most live at home and work part-time in regular employment, in addition to being members of gangs to survive.

Apply this to Trinidad and Tobago. Interviews suggest this scenario: The young boys who are getting shot can’t afford bling. They are wearing rubber slippers, living in shacks. They are the foot soldiers and hanger-ons.

In the early 1990s, when URP was expanding, “leaders” of the programme gained control of up to five gangs.

War pay

With this government contract, instead of 20 street soldiers, he could employ 50 more with URP money. He still paid them less than minimum wage, because he is taking his cut.

Like any businessman with an excess of labour, he looks to expand. In this case, the territory where he can sell drugs.

Unfortunately, that territory is occupied by someone just like him who also has a URP contract, and is looking to expand. Because these are criminal activities, this isn’t easy.

You can’t buy them out, can’t compete and sell better goods. So you invade their territory and hold it. That’s where the guns come in. The number of guns available is a reflection of demand.

The men who in the past smuggled whiskey will bring guns. It’s just business.

What’s in it for the young boys from the age of 15? The answer is simple. With their lack of educational qualifications they will be stuck in a minimum-wage system for the rest of their lives.

So they make a rational choice for themselves. Keep one foot in the formal system such as URP, with a reasonable income, live at home, and stay in the gang, in the hopes of rising to be a gang leader, and making ten times more than minimum wage.

The odds are high for a wage hike, since he is just competing with 35 people, most of whom will die on the job, compared to a formal economy where the possibility of rising without education is zero.

In times of war, the pay goes up. War is not the interest of the top man, since sales of drugs drop, but it is in the interest of the shooters to keep war going.

The riskier the venture, the greater the pay. The more shooters attack rival gangs the more likely the boss man will make you a senior man in that territory.

The more you kill, the more social rank and power you have amongst your peers. More pay brings girls, fancy cars, music, bling. A power they would never have otherwise.

Unless the Government can quickly educate thousands of semi-literate young men countrywide, with the hope of being powerful in the formal economy, our 90-strong, mostly illiterate gangs will continue to mushroom, flourish and kill in cold blood.

www.iramathur.org
©2004-2005 Trinidad Publishing Company Limited

[truetrini]

she come back with that URP contract talk eh....

[Midknight]

she come back with that URP contract talk eh....

context :

"in the early 1990's"

[truetrini]

she come back with that URP contract talk eh....

context :

"in the early 1990's"

in context it began then and continues now...why else develop the theme of foot soldiers who remain on the bottom tier?

and where does the gang leader get the money from now?

doh try dat...I saw the 90's ting, but read on...and if the lower tier foot soldiers make so little how dey blingingZ?  remember the first part of the story, they are met at the bank and given $100.00!

[pecan]

I have not followed this thread in detail .. so this may have been posted already .. if os, let me know and I will delete it


Trinidad bishop (Anglican) calls for moral regeneration: CEN 2.22.08 p 8.  February 21, 2008

Posted by geoconger in Church of England Newspaper, Church of the Province of the West Indies, Crime.


The Bishop of Trinidad  has issued a call for the moral regeneration of the Caribbean island nation, which is in the midst of a gang and drugs fueled crime wave.

Gang violence had spawned an “enormous wave of terror” that had swept “across the landscape” Bishop Calvin Bess told the congregation of Port of Spain’s Holy Trinity Cathedral on Feb 17.  However the rise in youth crime was not only a failure of policing, but a collapse of the moral order.  “If life has no meaning” for criminals, “how can death have any meaning?” the bishop asked.

Trinidad and Tobago has seen an upsurge in crime over the past decade.  In 2000 the police service recorded 120 murders–a figure that had risen to 388 by the end of 2007.  Nine murders were committed on Jan 1.

Last month the government pledged a renewed effort to tackle the violence.  National Security Minister Martin Joseph told Parliament that British police were being sent to the twin-island nation to train the constabulary, and Prime Minister Patrick Manning said the government “would win the fight” against crime through the acquisition of sophisticated electronics hardware that would establish a “security blanket” around the nation.

However, opposition leaders and the media have urged a more vigorous response.  The “most critical issue facing the nation is gang violence,” the Sunday Guardian said on Jan 13, as many lived “in fear for their lives with no confidence in the capacity of police officers to bring any relief to the level of crime that is now a part of their way of life.”

“We have wept enough, suffered enough, far too many lives have been snuffed out.  I appeal to the youth of this land who are caught up in this culture of death to come out of the darkness,” Bishop Bess said.  “Your strength, your energy can be put to much better use.”

Improved policing was but part of the solution.  The Christian transformation of society was necessary so that those who had taken to a life of crime could be redeemed and reformed before they struck, the bishop said.

[Swima]

Story time...

Just came in from Piarco and picking up d wife from a short business trip. So as we reach Port of Spain out by Bagwansingh's dey she tells me to lock the doors. Now I know she does be lil paranoid and with good reason as a young female. As she say that, we see two youths darting from the traffic and into the abandoned shed and through to Sea Lots. A man jump out his car in half a mind to follow them. These two youths break the man glass and try to tief something out of his car. Mind you this happened in broad daylight and rush hour (yes 10 AM is rushhour in Trinidad cause traffic doh stop especially on a Friday). The brazened way in which the crime occurred really has me thinking.

A man got shot at 8:30 AM on Duke Street on Monday. He died on the scene. When I worked in POS, my job was on Duke street and on any given day I might have been walking to the drug store on the coner of Duke and Charlotte at that time and could have witnessed the killing or been accidentally shot like the woman buying DVD's a few weeks ago.

I am convinced that we are headed for something really ugly really soon if we ehn there already. No respect for fellow man and no fear of the law is a deadly combination. When you add the fact that there is a heavy youth involvement in crime it make the mix even more potent as the brashness will continue and the borders will be further encroached upon. The only feasible way to make the change is by taking away some civil liberties. Constant street and highway patrols. Shake downs of suspicious looking people. Curfews in certain parts of the country. Time to make these fools and cowards realize that this is not their playground and that bullies will be met with swift and harsh punishment. We wasting f##kin time and sorely misguided if we think that we have a long way to go before this shit reaches our front door. It has reached many already. The Keith Noel committee was a god idea but is time to make some real noise. We need to shut down town for a day. Nobody work. Do something to bring attention to the situation because dem fellas on top not getting the message. Nothing is more important that the wlefare of the citizens. Not money, not anything! We gone too damn far man.

Ah tellin allyuh if a man touch one of my loved ones I going to kill him and is me dey go hadda lock up.

[WestCoast]

well said Swima
lets HOPE that the powers that be do something much more constructive than removal of civil liberties

start back the youth training programs (someone awhile back said that they stopped them?).

[Swima]

well said Swima
lets HOPE that the powers that be do something much more constructive than removal of civil liberties

start back the youth training programs (someone awhile back said that they stopped them?).

WC, I am a a big advocate for giving a man a second chance. Rehabilitation is great. But some of those beasts will not respond to youth training etc. Maybe the "purse snatchers" i encountered this morning would respond to it in time, but it have plenty worse out dere. They are frighteningly disgusting individuals.

[ribbit]

scene from A Bronx Tale:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxCUfiyMW-g&NR=1

[dcs]

Joseph: Gangs may be fighting over projects
Juhel Browne jbrowne@trinidadexpress.com
Trinidad Express
Wednesday, March 26th 2008

   

National Security Minister Martin Joseph says "it is very possible" criminal gangs identified by the Government as the source of the nation's escalating homicide rate may be fighting over State-funded social programmes.

Joseph was speaking at a press conference yesterday at the National Security Ministry's head office in Port of Spain where he also said that homicides have been on the rise since September 2007.

Although Joseph did not identify any specific social programme, on February 22, Justice Anthony Carmona in a judgment in a criminal case, said that while the Unemployment Employment Relief (URP) does serve a social purpose, there is rank criminality in its bowels which needs to be addressed by the authorities.

Critics of the URP, including members of the Opposition, have long claimed it has been infiltrated by criminal elements.

Works and Transport Minister Colm Imbert who is the URP's line minister has however said that the programme is not a criminal enterprise, even though he acknowledged that some of its participants have criminal records.

Joseph was asked yesterday if criminal gangs were not only fighting over physical turf but what people are describing as contracts in the social services programmes.

"It is possible. It is very possible," Joseph said.

He then continued, "I don't want to sound academic...the key to effective law enforcement is an appreciation and an understanding of the environment, what is happening in the environment and the ability of law enforcement to adjust quickly to the developments that are taking place in the environment."

Joseph said that there were people who spend their entire lives "bent on trying to get quick money" or try to "get rich without working" and in the process distress law abiding citizens.

He said such persons "spend their time looking for new and better ways" to get rich quick, adding, "Law enforcement has to always be in step."

Joseph said that while criminal gangs are not new to Trinidad and Tobago, the environment in which they operate is.

"What is new is that, again as part of the development that is taking place and the ease with which...persons who are bent on criminal activity can now access their weapons of choice. That is what is new and it is not just unique to Trinidad and Tobago, it also part of a Caribbean situation," Joseph said.

[Flex]

Duo held in $9,600 suite
2 of ‘biggest gang leaders’ arrested at Hyatt
Gail Alexander (Guardian)

CoP Dwayne Gibbs A total of 462 persons have been arrested in this week’s state of emergency operations, including two persons described as two of T&T’s “biggest gang leaders”, who were arrested at the Hyatt Hotel, Port-of-Spain, yesterday morning.

The two had booked into the hotel’s US$1,600 (TT$9,600) a night presidential suite since last Sunday when the state of emergency was announced, a Government spokesman confirmed. The spokesman said the location of the persons became known after they engaged numerous call girls during the week. The two, along with a female gang member, were arrested yesterday by security forces in the operation “Disrupt and Dismantle Gangs”, which has been mounted since the state of emergency began. Government yesterday described it as a “major breakthrough” in operations.

At yesterday’s daily media briefing at the National Security Ministry, Port-of-Spain, Minister John Sandy said among the multiple arrests of the last 24 hours, were two “notorious” gang leaders. Sandy said a third gang leader, who fled to Tobago, also was arrested. He said even though people were migrating to other areas, security forces also had those covered.

On whether a national threat from criminals was still imminent, Attorney General Anand Ramlogan said: “Unless and until violent crime was reduced, the state of emergency is one that is bearing fruit.” Police Commissioner Dwayne Gibbs gave the cumulative total of 462 detainees for the week. Gibbs said this included 190 gang leaders in the operation “to disrupt and dismantle gangs”.

Gibbs said the last 24-hour operation figure had netted 147 more people. Of this number 75 were related to gangs. Gibbs also noted eight others (involved in homicides), 21 (drug-related offences) four (curfew-breaking), one (firearm-related offences), 19 (serious offences), four (outstanding warrants) and 150 rounds of ammunition seized. While Gibbs declined details of the Hyatt arrests, a Government spokesman said the two persons arrested yesterday were from one of the biggest gangs in T&T. They said the unit was involved in drug-trafficking and gun-running and had ties extending to North and South America.  The gang is based in east Port-of-Spain/Laventille, they added.

A spokesman involved in yesterday’s arrests said the gang members were among a number who had checked into the hotel last weekend and were “coming and going.” They said orders were placed at “some of the finest restaurants for champagne and food” during the persons’ stay. The spokesman said those arrested included a female gang member, listed in the gang’s “corporate structure” as the gang’s “public relations officer”, earning a salary of $35,000 monthly. At yesterday’s media briefing, Ramlogan said the perception of gangs should not be confined to places like Nelson Street or “The Plannings”.

Ramlogan added: “You’ll be shocked at where some of them are housed and the extent of the luxury in which they live. Check their bank accounts, the carat of gold they wear, the amount of house they buy in cash and the number of girlfriends they ‘minding.’ “They have four and five residences and they move from place to place. “He said local studies show dominant gangs have a leader and sub-commanders and also had “cells”. Some often overwhelmed some gangs by violence, bringing in guns to recruit youths. Ramlogan added: “The cash they get from crime, some are used to establish dance halls and nightclubs. They promote fetes and concerts, bringing in foreign artistes, and make millions. They sponsor community activities like basketball tournaments.

“Some form legitimate businesses and promise jobs. They don’t wear a jacket and tie but they have more money than the man in jacket and tie,” Ramlogan added. He said casinos had reported that they earned $600,000 to $700,00 nightly from gang members. Ramlogan said the gangs’ structure was copied from American counterparts and some had a “board of directors” in their big business operations. Gibbs said police had to sort through all the people and evidence obtained, so far, “so who’s who in the zoo will take a little work,” he added. “So far we are seeing successes. During the time of the state of emergency there has been some crime but to a limited extent and we intend to continue dismantling the gangs,” Gibbs said.

[frico]

Well what can anyone say bout that coz it appears like they are getting closer to the Mr.Big....come eeeen posters lets hear yuh.

[TdotTrini]

Well what can anyone say bout that coz it appears like they are getting closer to the Mr.Big....come eeeen posters lets hear yuh.

Nah dat issa long shot.

[frico]

Tell yuh what,if they catch that Mr.Big it could unravel plenty other skanks that taking place in TT.

[STEUPS!!]

Well what can anyone say bout that coz it appears like they are getting closer to the Mr.Big....come eeeen posters lets hear yuh.

u eh serious. D AG cud say what the fack he want. u have any evidence that he telling the truth? i cud understand them not revealing the identities of the persons allegedly held, for obvious reasons. but until they are brought before the court and charged then the AG et al at this point only spewing hot air

[frico]

Well what can anyone say bout that coz it appears like they are getting closer to the Mr.Big....come eeeen posters lets hear yuh.

u eh serious. D AG cud say what the fack he want. u have any evidence that he telling the truth? i cud understand them not revealing the identities of the persons allegedly held, for obvious reasons. but until they are brought before the court and charged then the AG et al at this point only spewing hot air

I get it yuza a PNM till yuh die.

[STEUPS!!]

Well what can anyone say bout that coz it appears like they are getting closer to the Mr.Big....come eeeen posters lets hear yuh.

u eh serious. D AG cud say what the fack he want. u have any evidence that he telling the truth? i cud understand them not revealing the identities of the persons allegedly held, for obvious reasons. but until they are brought before the court and charged then the AG et al at this point only spewing hot air

I get it yuza a PNM till yuh die.

so to you anybody who doesnt swallow what this government says wholesale is PNM? OK

[Football supporter]

Ok, politics aside, I am impressed about the Hyatt arrests. I also want to know when that $35,000 pm PR job was advertised, coz I would have applied!!

Seriously, hiding out at the Hyatt, hiring call girls and ordering champagne etc isn't exactly keeping below the radar. I can only guess that these guys felt protected by the police so as long as they were not in the hot spots they felt safe. I do feel that a side effect of this SOE will be the arrest of several police who are on the gangs payroll.

I know we can only go by the govt propaganda, but I am beginning to feel this could be a worthy excercise, though I will never accept it was properly planned and excercised.

[Bakes]

Express reports it's a $900 TT a night room... Guardian magically reports it being 10x as expensive.  The kicker is Sandy was in the same hotel at the same time giving a speech... and didn't know anything about the raid, nor did Gibbs.  Allyuh taking down a "Mr. Big" and neither the Min. of National Security nor the CoP know about it?  And the Min. of National Security on the premises?


...sad part is that people actually lapping up this nonsense.

[College]

I dont believe this "Hyatt duo held "story as reported... a lot of things dont make sense in this story.

[Football supporter]

Express reports it's a $900 TT a night room... Guardian magically reports it being 10x as expensive.  The kicker is Sandy was in the same hotel at the same time giving a speech... and didn't know anything about the raid, nor did Gibbs.  Allyuh taking down a "Mr. Big" and neither the Min. of National Security nor the CoP know about it?  And the Min. of National Security on the premises?


...sad part is that people actually lapping up this nonsense.

Thought Hyatt prices started higher than $900???

[truetrini]

Thse captured in the Hyatt...supposed they are mid level men.  If yuh is ah Mr. Big yuh eh go dutty yuh hands with no street operations.  Yuh go get crew leaders to manage yuh thugs, they go hande distribution, managing yuh pushers and doing yuh enforcing, protecting yuh turf!

If yuh is ah Mr. Big yuh go send yuh crew leaders on a hiatus during times like dis...dem men dey could possibly be just mid men.

This is not to say that if dey is jes middle men is not an important haul, the intel and the psychological advantages are wonderful.

I also find dat no indians, no reputed drug over lord syrians getting tied up, is only little street niggas...who vex lorse, dias de impression I and many getting here, and from de AG's own mout, is black men from single families doing dis....

ANYWAYS:


One of the key facets of creating any serious attempts at disrupting the drug trade and gang warfare in T&T must include:

1. A plan to combine short term, street level enforcement activity with such sophisticated techniques as consensual monitoring, financial analysis, and wire intercepts investigations to disrupt, root out and prosecute the entire gang, from the street level thugs and dealers up through the crew leaders and ultimately the gang’s command structure.

2. An Incentive package to encourage witnesses and informants to cooperate with the authorities and

3. The imprisoning of the gang’s leaders for decades.

Notice I stated that there are CREW LEADERS...probably the peeps caught in the Hyatt.