Statement from the TTFF.

[Flex]

Statement from the TTFF.
By: Shaun Fuentes (TTFF).[/size]

In view of several press reports suggesting that the “TTFF paid to the Soca Warriors part of their controversial World Cup pact”, the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation wishes to comment on the several inaccuracies or suggestions contained in the most recent article in The Daily Express of March 17th, 2008.

The TTFF has refunded to each member of the World Cup Team their portion of an amount which it was agreed would be deducted from the total amount due to the players and which the players had decided would be donated to a charitable organization. Since there was no clear mandate or agreement amongst the players as to which organization the funds should be donated the TTFF accepted the advice of its Attorneys in the arbitration matter and refunded the amount which was previously deducted from each player.

The writer of the above referenced article has questioned whether or not Trinidad and Tobago’s World Cup money found its way into a CONCACAF account. Consequent upon the relationship which exists between Concacaf and several regional football bodies Concacaf would very often make payments on behalf of the regional bodies. Such payments more properly referred to as advances would be repaid by the regional body or deducted from any amounts due to such regional body as appropriate. In the case of the payment to TTFF’s World Cup Team the payment made by Concacaf has been treated in the same manner.

Issued on March 16, 2008.
Please be guided accordingly.

Richard Groden
General Secretary
Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation.

[vb]

TTFF is really a shameless pack of scun%s.

Two years after the WC nobody figure out where the money going.

Worse yet, why was this not CLEARLY  stated when the money was first given back.

I watiing for FPATT to comment on this matter.

VB

[Big Magician]

scun#s .....ah like dat VB...lol...yuh playing for Jammal o wha ??...lol

[Sam]

scun#s .....ah like dat VB...lol...yuh playing for Jammal o wha ??...lol

Ent ah tell yuh VB was a Guyanese. Why yuh think he always support Shabaaz... is flour rice he grow up on....

Jack Warner is unstopable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! de man have a plaster for every cut..... I am sure if someone investigate FIFA and CONCACAF accounts they will find the truth, but when the judge and lawyers in Blatter and Jack pockets there isn't much anyone can do.... Jack will fall in time, but he will be born again through his son... Darryl. Jack have it down pack for generations to come..... we need Abut Baker right about now to break that curse.

[Mose]

So the players still haven't been paid.

[superoli]

so jack transferred the money from his concacaf account which in turn will be refunded from his TTFF account................nice

[weary1969]

Ah cyah steupsssssss that Loud so y now dey decide 2 refund them d food and transport money which should have neva been deducted. Dat is d best dey coulda come up wit

[E-man]

Since there was no clear mandate or agreement amongst the players as to which organization the funds should be donated the TTFF accepted the advice of its Attorneys in the arbitration matter and refunded the amount which was previously deducted from each player.

This just means they couldn't bring themselves to make out a check to FPATT. (That might be considered as recognition  )

[elan]

The writer of the above referenced article has questioned whether or not Trinidad and Tobago’s World Cup money found its way into a CONCACAF account. Consequent upon the relationship which exists between Concacaf and several regional football bodies Concacaf would very often make payments on behalf of the regional bodies. Such payments more properly referred to as advances would be repaid by the regional body or deducted from any amounts due to such regional body as appropriate. In the case of the payment to TTFF’s World Cup Team the payment made by Concacaf has been treated in the same manner.

Why the first CONCACAF in full caps and the other Concacaf not? Is this on purpose or a typo? I ask this because if the TTFF release an official statement I believe they would be professional enough to have CONCACAF printed properly. Just like TTFF is always in caps.

I believe they know what hey doing as Concacaf is JW company, like other posters pointed out in another thread. Tell us it's a typo Shaun........

[Mr Mc]

if they deducted the money from the WC money and never made a donation to any charity, why is the money being paid back from future money?
it should be sitting in the TTFF account untouched, not a CONCACAF or Concacaf account.

this is real shady business, watch when come times to pay this current team some money this payout will be deducted.

[SHOTTA]

at first they say they aint know nuttin but either payments but all a sudden they issuein release

jack pay money from he back pocket that go come back in he front posket

smart blastred move

[Bakes]

People need to quit with the fishing expedition...when we keep crying wolf over non-issues like this it detracts from the legitimate criticism that the TTFF is more deserving of.

The TTFF has refunded to each member of the World Cup Team their portion of an amount which it was agreed would be deducted from the total amount due to the players and which the players had decided would be donated to a charitable organization. Since there was no clear mandate or agreement amongst the players as to which organization the funds should be donated the TTFF accepted the advice of its Attorneys in the arbitration matter and refunded the amount which was previously deducted from each player.

Looking at that portion of the statement, there was apparently an agreement between the TTFF and the players that a portion of some money (World Cup distribution?) would be deducted from each player and donated to charity.  Apparently no consensus could be reached among the players as to which charity would benefit.  E-man I know you treat this with skepticism about the TTFF wanting to recognize FPATT, but remember there are still some players who haven't fully bought into the whole FPATT idea...so not far-fetched that they would balk at giving FPATT their money.  Perfectly plausible in my mind.

Not having consensus on where the money should go they refunded the monies.  Of course it could be argued (towards your point E-man) that they could have just written the checks to the various charities just as well.

As for why the money is coming from CONCACAF and why one is capitalized and later on it's not...come on people.  At any rate, to those insisting that there's something shady or illegal about this...good luck.

[Coop's]

I would like to know know why we are not hearing from FPATT on this,people just speculating as to what's going on,Jack quiet everybody and is in total control of Football,TTFF money in his own despite what anyone thinks,he built that enterprise,don't matter how the TTFF explain what or how they did their business people on here just can't accept anything.

I always said our players are putting themselves on a collision course with the TTFF,since we have big players with big contracts getting big money they all want to tell the TTFF how they should do business,when they should or should not play,making all kinds of unrealistic demands,our players association in the TTFF mind was only formed for one reason,they could never work together because one is making demands on the player's behalf and the other insisting that they have to play by their rules.

I still can't get over why everything is Jack,player eh get selected,release from club,Coach fired,money missing,money collected,stadium clean/dirty,grounds in poor condition,fees too high for games,times when games are played the list can go on and on and on,now we talking about one man,i wonder if he have a life.

What's wrong with that statement ?

[Mr Mc]

I would like to know know why we are not hearing from FPATT on this,people just speculating as to what's going on,

Coops I think FPATT has decided to refrain from posting on the forum, as some of the comments were being seen as 'confrontational' and its best for them to proceed in a more businesslike manner.

[weary1969]

Thank u Mr. Mc. D 16 players who are in d lawsuit eh have a problem wiith FPATT. In fact d 7 who eh in d lawsuit eh have a problem with FPATT. Dwight 4 instance is a member. Eman I agree with u if dey cut a cheque to FPATT they will knowledge they exisit or they go send it Oxford St by Family Planning

[kentsoulman]

I would like to know know why we are not hearing from FPATT on this,people just speculating as to what's going on,Jack quiet everybody and is in total control of Football,TTFF money in his own despite what anyone thinks,he built that enterprise,don't matter how the TTFF explain what or how they did their business people on here just can't accept anything.

I always said our players are putting themselves on a collision course with the TTFF,since we have big players with big contracts getting big money they all want to tell the TTFF how they should do business,when they should or should not play,making all kinds of unrealistic demands,our players association in the TTFF mind was only formed for one reason,they could never work together because one is making demands on the player's behalf and the other insisting that they have to play by their rules.

I still can't get over why everything is Jack,player eh get selected,release from club,Coach fired,money missing,money collected,stadium clean/dirty,grounds in poor condition,fees too high for games,times when games are played the list can go on and on and on,now we talking about one man,i wonder if he have a life.

What's wrong with that statement ?

Coops, I can't quite make out if you're saying you are against FPATT or for them? It does look like they are on a collision course, but I can only see that as TTFFs fault. In any workplace where employees are continuously mistreated, eventually thev worm will turn. In other workplaces you have the option of quitting and working somewhere else. T&T footballers can't do this. In all of the biggest footballing countries (I think its about 40) there are players unions. The players get decent treatment and can concentrate on their football.
I thought the World Cup was the reason why FPATT was formed, but I am continually shocked when I read here that this has been going on SINCE BEFORE KENWYNE WAS BORN!! I find that this is incredible. For many posters here, that means that Jack Warner and Mr Camps have been mistreating players and upporters for a whole lifetime!!

How can that be?

It seems to me that nobody has ever organised themselves to stand up to this mistreatment for 30 years. It is unfair to criticise FPATT for having the balls to do it now. In England, the players that formed the PFA in 1907 eventually were "locked out" because they joined the trade union movement, but the FA eventually recognised them.
100 years later and T&T players are blacklisted for fighting for their rights.

I just don't understand why Mr Camps and Mr Warner are still in power. Why doesn't the government intercede? FIFA may frown upon governments getting involved, but I keep seeing stuff here about money going missing, secret companies, undemocratic practices like Mr Camps owning TTFF etc. These things are not about football, they are about upholding the law of the land. There should be suspensions while public enquiries are carried out.

I mean no disrespect to the people of T&T, but in England Trinidad & Tobago is known for two things - great holidays and football. I'm sure if people were messing with your tourist industry the government would get involved.

[palos]

I would like to know know why we are not hearing from FPATT on this,people just speculating as to what's going on,Jack quiet everybody and is in total control of Football,TTFF money in his own despite what anyone thinks,he built that enterprise,don't matter how the TTFF explain what or how they did their business people on here just can't accept anything.

I always said our players are putting themselves on a collision course with the TTFF,since we have big players with big contracts getting big money they all want to tell the TTFF how they should do business,when they should or should not play,making all kinds of unrealistic demands,our players association in the TTFF mind was only formed for one reason,they could never work together because one is making demands on the player's behalf and the other insisting that they have to play by their rules.

I still can't get over why everything is Jack,player eh get selected,release from club,Coach fired,money missing,money collected,stadium clean/dirty,grounds in poor condition,fees too high for games,times when games are played the list can go on and on and on,now we talking about one man,i wonder if he have a life.

What's wrong with that statement ?

On de one hand yuh say dis:

Jack quiet everybody and is in total control of Football,TTFF money in his own despite what anyone thinks,he built that enterprise,

But den yuh tun rong and say dis?

I still can't get over why everything is Jack,player eh get selected,release from club,Coach fired,money missing,money collected,stadium clean/dirty,grounds in poor condition,fees too high for games,times when games are played the list can go on and on and on,now we talking about one man,

So if Jack in TOTAL CONTROL OF WE FOOTBALL as YOU SELF say, who people go look at regardin dem issues yuh call dey....Panday? 

You jokin yes breds.

[Bakes]

I would like to know know why we are not hearing from FPATT on this,people just speculating as to what's going on,Jack quiet everybody and is in total control of Football,TTFF money in his own despite what anyone thinks,he built that enterprise,don't matter how the TTFF explain what or how they did their business people on here just can't accept anything.

I always said our players are putting themselves on a collision course with the TTFF,since we have big players with big contracts getting big money they all want to tell the TTFF how they should do business,when they should or should not play,making all kinds of unrealistic demands,our players association in the TTFF mind was only formed for one reason,they could never work together because one is making demands on the player's behalf and the other insisting that they have to play by their rules.

I still can't get over why everything is Jack,player eh get selected,release from club,Coach fired,money missing,money collected,stadium clean/dirty,grounds in poor condition,fees too high for games,times when games are played the list can go on and on and on,now we talking about one man,i wonder if he have a life.

What's wrong with that statement ?

1. Can you cite one example of how the players trying to "tell the TTFF how they should do business"?
2. What "kinds of unrealistic demands" are players making?

...thanks.

[kicker]

I still don't see the problem in the whole scenario....maybe I'm blind.

1. The players and the local federation previously agreed that certain amounts due to them would be deducted and used for charitable purposes- wha wrong with that? Nothing

2. Apparently it was unclear which charity/chariities would benefit from the funds, so the local federation consulted with their council and asked what is the best course of action for these outstanding funds....Makes sense to me, especially after all the recent issues, it's in the interest of the TTFF to say "watch nah, iz best we get these monies off our hands, and avoid any legal ramifications, get the liabilities off our books, and avoid distortion of our true financial position"....wha wrong with that- nothing

3. TTFF probably doesn't have the best of liquidity positions, which is normal for many non-profit federations probably resulting from a timing mismatch from funds flowing in, & flowing out....or a result of budgets, & covenants that dictate the use of certain liquid assets, so they ask the regional federation made the payment on their behalf- wha wrong with that?

4. The only thing to close the loop on this issue is to track the funds flowing back from the TTFF to CONCACAF... which could possibly take place a long time from now, and take the shape or form of a various set of payments...... not really a cause for bother in my opinion....

I really doh see how all the confusion, and commess about Jack & Camps etc... come in to the discussion.

Not even sure how this is an FPATT issue either..... up tuh now I eh hear none of the players make a fuss about this, nor call for representation in this issue...

[Mr Mc]

I still don't see the problem in the whole scenario....maybe I'm blind.



3. TTFF probably doesn't have the best of liquidity positions, which is normal for many non-profit federations probably resulting from a timing mismatch from funds flowing in, & flowing out....or a result of budgets, & covenants that dictate the use of certain liquid assets, so they ask the regional federation made the payment on their behalf- wha wrong with that?

Kicker,
if the money was to come for all the WC money from 2006, why then to the need to ask the regional Fed to make the payment on their behalf? it should have been just sitting and waiting to be disbursed.
Why are they haing money problems if part of the reason for the players getting such a small payout, was because a percentage was withheld for the 2010 push, where is that money?

[WestCoast]

I still don't see the problem in the whole scenario....maybe I'm blind.
3. TTFF probably doesn't have the best of liquidity positions, which is normal for many non-profit federations probably resulting from a timing mismatch from funds flowing in, & flowing out....or a result of budgets, & covenants that dictate the use of certain liquid assets, so they ask the regional federation made payment on their behalf- wha wrong with that?

Kicker,
if the money was to come for all the WC money from 2006, why then to the need to ask the regional Fed to make the payment on their behalf? it should have been just sitting and waiting to be disbursed.
Why are they haing money problems if part of the reason for the players getting such a small payout, was because a percentage was withheld for the 2010 push, where is that money?

so Kicker could I ask where you think all that $173 Million gone?  or, is that a non issue with relation to this particular issue?

[Bakes]

I still don't see the problem in the whole scenario....maybe I'm blind.

1. The players and the local federation previously agreed that certain amounts due to them would be deducted and used for charitable purposes- wha wrong with that? Nothing

2. Apparently it was unclear which charity/chariities would benefit from the funds, so the local federation consulted with their council and asked what is the best course of action for these outstanding funds....Makes sense to me, especially after all the recent issues, it's in the interest of the TTFF to say "watch nah, iz best we get these monies off our hands, and avoid any legal ramifications, get the liabilities off our books, and avoid distortion of our true financial position"....wha wrong with that- nothing

3. TTFF probably doesn't have the best of liquidity positions, which is normal for many non-profit federations probably resulting from a timing mismatch from funds flowing in, & flowing out....or a result of budgets, & covenants that dictate the use of certain liquid assets, so they ask the regional federation made the payment on their behalf- wha wrong with that?

4. The only thing to close the loop on this issue is to track the funds flowing back from the TTFF to CONCACAF... which could possibly take place a long time from now, and take the shape or form of a various set of payments...... not really a cause for bother in my opinion....

I really doh see how all the confusion, and commess about Jack & Camps etc... come in to the discussion.

Not even sure how this is an FPATT issue either..... up tuh now I eh hear none of the players make a fuss about this, nor call for representation in this issue...

You and me are of the same accord.  I see FPATT made a statement elsewhere voicing concern that the money came out of a CONCACAF account and that it never should have been touched...it should have just been sitting there to be disbursed.

Again, I really don't see the issue...it's extremely naive to think that any organization (let alone one with perennial cash flow issues) to just have money sitting around there with an indeterminate future.  It is readily apparent that what happened is that the TTFF used the money and now they have to pay it back out of their CONCACAF advance. 

If we want to indict the accounting methods and business sense of the TTFF well yeah...as I said they'd fail any ISO 9001 check, but big deal.  Who cares where the money is coming from...FPATT needs to pick and choose it's battles and I don't know that this particular one is worth the effort.

[Bakes]

I still don't see the problem in the whole scenario....maybe I'm blind.
3. TTFF probably doesn't have the best of liquidity positions, which is normal for many non-profit federations probably resulting from a timing mismatch from funds flowing in, & flowing out....or a result of budgets, & covenants that dictate the use of certain liquid assets, so they ask the regional federation made payment on their behalf- wha wrong with that?

Kicker,
if the money was to come for all the WC money from 2006, why then to the need to ask the regional Fed to make the payment on their behalf? it should have been just sitting and waiting to be disbursed.
Why are they haing money problems if part of the reason for the players getting such a small payout, was because a percentage was withheld for the 2010 push, where is that money?

so Kicker could I ask where you think all that $173 Million gone?

That has nothing to do with this present issue...it's two completely different set of monies in case you haven't been following along.

[Coop's]

We talking about players union in England and comparing it with FPATT,the difference is English players are based,play and live in England our players are also based,play and live in England etc etc the main organizers of FPATT i don't think they and all are based in T&T and that's why they are not effective,i'm not against anybody,i've taken a neutral stance on this whole issue because like nobody knows what they are doing,nobody is talking about the portion of the money the players giving to charity,is FPATT a charity organization?i try to be fair to both sides that's why i talk the way i do because we are all Trini's,Football is dear to me T&T Football it's the main reason why it's a way of life for me that's all i do,i live by it.

Palos that's the exact question i want to ask people because they criticizing and bad mouthing every single thing the man do and still looking forward to him to be nice and do everything they want,i'm not saying he is right but at least give credit where credit is due.

Bake n Shark i'm around here a long time and i'm not going to deal with any isolated incidents,we have a history of trying the tell the TTFA/TTFF what they should or should not do,that's the biggest problem our Football faces,everybody knows what's best especially where we have players that play abroad and used to the treatment of those clubs out there,yes i agree we are not up to the required standard but the way we are going about it is wrong,fighting with the TTFF will solve nothing and our Football is suffering and people want to blame Jack,two wrongs will not make things right,look FPATT and all keeping quiet.  

[kicker]

I still don't see the problem in the whole scenario....maybe I'm blind.
3. TTFF probably doesn't have the best of liquidity positions, which is normal for many non-profit federations probably resulting from a timing mismatch from funds flowing in, & flowing out....or a result of budgets, & covenants that dictate the use of certain liquid assets, so they ask the regional federation made payment on their behalf- wha wrong with that?

Kicker,
if the money was to come for all the WC money from 2006, why then to the need to ask the regional Fed to make the payment on their behalf? it should have been just sitting and waiting to be disbursed.
Why are they haing money problems if part of the reason for the players getting such a small payout, was because a percentage was withheld for the 2010 push, where is that money?

so Kicker could I ask where you think all that $173 Million gone?  or, is that a non issue with relation to this particular issue?

Yeah I was talking strictly about the charity funds.... With respect to the grand payment of funds due from the WC...that's another issue which I agree is pretty awful. 

[superoli]

Kicker,
 I think the problem arises because the funds have come form a different entity to that expected. TTFF is not a subsidary of Concacaf (though treated that way) this might suprise people in Trinidad (used to JW and his corruption) but UEFA and the FA here are two different and distinct entities with separate statements of accounts. How can anyone have accountability or a proper investigation if two organizations accounts are intermingled ?

I think further confusion arises because JW set up a company called CONCACAF which was basically a vehicle to rinse money from the Government and FIFA.

[elan]

I would like to know know why we are not hearing from FPATT on this,people just speculating as to what's going on,Jack quiet everybody and is in total control of Football,TTFF money in his own despite what anyone thinks,he built that enterprise,don't matter how the TTFF explain what or how they did their business people on here just can't accept anything.

I always said our players are putting themselves on a collision course with the TTFF,since we have big players with big contracts getting big money they all want to tell the TTFF how they should do business,when they should or should not play,making all kinds of unrealistic demands,our players association in the TTFF mind was only formed for one reason,they could never work together because one is making demands on the player's behalf and the other insisting that they have to play by their rules.

I still can't get over why everything is Jack,player eh get selected,release from club,Coach fired,money missing,money collected,stadium clean/dirty,grounds in poor condition,fees too high for games,times when games are played the list can go on and on and on,now we talking about one man,i wonder if he have a life.

What's wrong with that statement ?

Everything thing is Jack because Jack is the only person who make statements on behalf of the TTFF. When was the last time Corneal made a statement about the hiring of a coach, the firing of a coach, the decisions on what frienlies the team should play and along those lines? Is JW who does everything so who should we blame or look to for answers?

Yes "that's the house that Jack built", but he sustains it with my money. Whenever the Govt give the TTFF money my taxes which I paid going in there. If you don't want to be accountable to anyone, don't ask the govt for monies and hire players full time to represent the Communist State of Jack Warner and not the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago.

[WestCoast]

If you don't want to be accountable to anyone, don't ask the govt for monies and hire players full time to represent the Communist State of Jack Warner and not the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago.

WOOP WAP Elan

but having said that, maybe the Government has been naive to JUST HAND OVER money to Jack without any strings attached.

[kicker]

Kicker,
if the money was to come for all the WC money from 2006, why then to the need to ask the regional Fed to make the payment on their behalf? it should have been just sitting and waiting to be disbursed.
Why are they haing money problems if part of the reason for the players getting such a small payout, was because a percentage was withheld for the 2010 push, where is that money?

That whole argument about "funds should just be sitting there" is overly simplistic- not even worth discussing if yuh have any idea of how organizations can potentially manage cash their flows under varying situations...

Dread- it's obvious that something went wrong which led to the WC 06 money issues (whether it was an intentional misappropration of funds, down right theiving, or just plain sloppy budgeting & spending, I dunno, fact is they f-ed up big time there...that horse done dead & get kicked a thousand times...everybody vex about that, including me)..could that have something to do with why they are relying on CONCACAF to pull them out of a small liquidity crisis? sure....but does that mean that process under which the players were recently refunded their to-be charity donations is screwed up? Not really...The fact is that players have been refunded in full....and the last loop to be closed is repayment to CONCACAF by TTFF.....plain and simple. Does it raise questions about the previous WC payment issue? maybe....but like I said that's a separate issue to me and the implications being raised in this thread about the topic at hand seem to be kinda off-base.....

[kicker]

Kicker,
 I think the problem arises because the funds have come form a different entity to that expected. TTFF is not a subsidary of Concacaf (though treated that way) this might suprise people in Trinidad (used to JW and his corruption) but UEFA and the FA here are two different and distinct entities with separate statements of accounts. How can anyone have accountability or a proper investigation if two organizations accounts are intermingled ?

I think further confusion arises because JW set up a company called CONCACAF which was basically a vehicle to rinse money from the Government and FIFA.

I don't know about Jack's CONCACAF company....so I can't get involved on that level....

About the relationship between CONCACAF & TTFF, while they may not have a traditional parent- sub relationship as observed with corporations, the federations are related, and a payment by one on behalf of another, followed by a subsequent repayment isn't that outrageous in my view....I don't even see this as an intermingling of accounts, but merely a financing transaction between two federations....but like I say, maybe I'm missing the boat here...I'm by no means an advocate for any of the bodies related to this issue....and I have no issue with being wrong on this one....I just think that if this scenario is taken for what it is, then alot of the comments on here are kinda stetching it......