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Author Topic: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK  (Read 4564 times)

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Offline Andre

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50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« on: April 25, 2008, 08:19:08 AM »
bun dem



more - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/nyregion/26BELL.html?em&ex=1209268800&en=7216625a64113a81&ei=5087%0A

3 NYPD detectives acquitted in 50-shot killing

By TOM HAYS – 19 minutes ago

NEW YORK (AP) — Three detectives were acquitted of all charges Friday in the 50-shot killing of an unarmed groom-to-be on his wedding day, a case that put the NYPD at the center of another dispute involving allegations of excessive firepower.

Justice Arthur Cooperman delivered the verdict in a Queens courtroom packed with spectators, including victim Sean Bell's fiancee and parents, and at least 200 people gathered outside the building.

The verdict provoked an outpouring of emotions: Bell's fiancee immediately walked out of the room. His mother cried. Gasps were heard throughout the room. Shouts of "No!" and "Not guilty!" erupted in the crowd outside the courthouse, and dozens of people began crying.

Bell, a 23-year-old black man, was killed in a hail of gunfire outside a seedy strip club in Queens on Nov. 25, 2006 — his wedding day — as he was leaving his bachelor party with two friends.

Officers Michael Oliver, 36, and Gescard Isnora, 29, stood trial for manslaughter while Officer Marc Cooper, 40, was charged only with reckless endangerment. Two other shooters weren't charged. Oliver squeezed off 31 shots; Isnora fired 11 rounds; and Cooper shot four times.

The officers, complaining that pretrial publicity had unfairly painted them as cold-blooded killers, opted to have the judge decide the case rather than a jury.

The judge indicated that the police officers' version of events was more credible than the victims' version. "The people have not proved beyond a reasonable doubt that each defendant was not justified" in firing, he said.

A conviction on manslaughter could have brought up to 25 years in prison; the penalty for reckless endangerment, a misdemeanor, is a year behind bars.

The case brought back painful memories of other NYPD shootings, such as the 1999 shooting of Amadou Diallo — an African immigrant who was gunned down in a hail of 41 bullets by police officers who mistook his wallet for a gun. The acquittal of the officers in that case created a storm of protest, with hundreds arrested after taking to the streets in demonstration.

The mood surrounding this case has been muted by comparison, although Bell's fiancee, parents and their supporters, including the Rev. Al Sharpton, have held rallies demanding that the officers — two of whom are black — be held accountable.

Still, a phalanx of police officers, some uniformed and some in the department's community affairs polo shirts, was stationed outside the courthouse Friday. The building was ringed by metal barricades. Some in the crowd wore buttons with Bell's picture or held signs saying "Justice for Sean Bell." After the verdict was read, some in the crowd approached officers but were held back; the jostling quickly died down.

The nearly two-month trial was marked by deeply divergent accounts on the part of defense lawyers and prosecutors.

The defense painted the victims as drunken thugs who the officers believed were armed and dangerous. Prosecutors sought to convince the judge that the victims had been minding their own business, and that the officers were inept, trigger-happy aggressors.

None of the officers took the witness stand in his own defense. Instead, Cooperman heard transcripts of the officers testifying before a grand jury, saying they believed they had good reason to use deadly force. The judge also heard testimony from Bell's two injured companions, who insisted the maelstrom erupted without warning.

Both sides were consistent on one point: The utter chaos surrounding the last moments of Bell's life.

"It happened so quick," Isnora said in his grand jury testimony. "It was like the last thing I ever wanted to do."

Bell's companions — Trent Benefield and Joseph Guzman — also offered dramatic testimony about the episode. Benefield and Guzman were both wounded; Guzman still has four bullets lodged in his body.

Referring to Isnora, Guzman said, "This dude is shooting like he's crazy, like he's out of his mind."

The victims and shooters were set on a fateful collision course by a pair of innocuous decisions: Bell's to have a last-minute bachelor party at Kalua Cabaret, and the undercover detectives' to investigate reports of prostitution at the club.

As the club closed around 4 a.m., Sanchez and Isnora claimed they overheard Bell and his friends first flirt with women, then taunt a stranger who responded by putting his right hand in his pocket as if he had a gun. Guzman, they testified, said, "Yo, go get my gun" — something Bell's friends denied.

Isnora said he decided to arm himself, call for backup — "It's getting hot," he told his supervisor — and tail Bell, Guzman and Benefield as they went around the corner and got into Bell's car. He claimed that after warning the men to halt, Bell pulled away, bumped him and rammed an unmarked police van that converged on the scene with Oliver at the wheel.

The detective also alleged that Guzman made a sudden move as if he were reaching for a gun.

"I yelled 'Gun!' and fired," he said. "In my mind, I knew (Guzman) had a gun."

Benefield and Guzman testified that there were no orders. Instead, Guzman said, Isnora "appeared out of nowhere" with a gun drawn and shot him in the shoulder — the first of 16 shots to enter his body.

"That's all there was — gunfire," he said. "There wasn't nothing else."

With tires screeching, glass breaking and bullets flying, the officers claimed that they believed they were the ones under fire. Oliver responded by emptying his semiautomatic pistol, reloading, and emptying it again, as the supervisor dived for cover.

The truth emerged when the smoke cleared: There was no weapon inside Bell's blood-splattered car.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 08:21:54 AM by Andre »

Offline Trini _2026

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2008, 08:40:51 AM »
NOT SUPRISING

Like you forgot about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROn_9302UHg
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4</a>

truetrini

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2008, 08:44:49 AM »
well de New YorKKK ting really not an acurate depiction, since de KKK doh really take up for blacks and minorities and as far as I could make out, two of the accused are also BLACKKK

Offline Trini _2026

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 08:49:30 AM »
well de New YorKKK ting really not an acurate depiction, since de KKK doh really take up for blacks and minorities and as far as I could make out, two of the accused are also BLACKKK

this why when some ah them get this yuh does cyar say nothing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDZLvPYJ4UI
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/sh8SeGmzai4</a>

Offline Organic

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2008, 09:11:41 AM »
steups
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Offline fari

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 10:34:11 AM »
i am not privy to all the facts in this case but i still feel like an injustice has been done.

Offline Bakes

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 01:40:42 PM »
i am not privy to all the facts in this case but i still feel like an injustice has been done.

Kinda feel the same, in the sense that an innocent man died unnecessarily and no one has been made to pay.  From an outsider's perspective though, I kinda want to question the prosecutions' strategy.  How did we arrive at a bench trial rather than jury?  In the legal system there is a presumption in favor of police officers...given that in theory, judges, attorneys, police office et al are all on the side of the law...particularly countenanced by the fact that police officers swear an oath to uphold the law.  Judges look favorable upon that, often at the expense of scrutinizing the actual individual officers before them.

Given this presumption, even an impartial judge is likely to favor a cop, let alone one with a predisposition in favor of police and looking for some legally justifiable reason to exonerate them...not saying of course that that is what happened here.  Given this backdrop...and accepting that it's likely the defendant's choice whether to opt for a bench or jury trial....hard to imagine the prosecution not putting up a fight over that.  Additionally, you going to put witnesses on the stand who are less than 100% credible?  Defense attorneys coach up their witnesses all the time before putting them on the stand.  The DA here admits that he did no such coaching.  In two, three years he'll be working out of a sole practitioner's office somewhere in Brooklyn.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 01:44:49 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 02:30:52 PM »
Part of the reasons the justice industry show bias toward police is that judges know that police must sometimes make quick descisions based on little information. The descision making ability of some of these cops is extremely poor. But they get the benfit of the doubt  partly in acknowledgement of this and partly to assauge the fear among police that they will be asked to become targets.

That said, the outcomes of these cases shows serious bias way beyond reasonable balancing of the respect for the job police have to do. Some people will say that because black people in America committ crimes in a far greater proportion than whites, the killings of citizens reflect the "criminal predisposition" of blacks. The fact that so many innocent blacks are being killed is precisely a reflection of such bigotry.

Judges and police are too spineless to confront it.
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truetrini

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2008, 02:35:04 PM »
many judges were alson once prosecutors and many prosecutors were once police men.

But in this case, I think the officers chose the way to be tried, I belive they chose to have their cases heard by a judge alone and not a jury.

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2008, 02:49:19 PM »
many judges were alson once prosecutors and many prosecutors were once police men.

But in this case, I think the officers chose the way to be tried, I belive they chose to have their cases heard by a judge alone and not a jury.

Yeah the prosecutors let it slip. A jury is less likely to have an indepth understanding of the particulars of law enforcement but might have enough distance from the  we-VS-them attitude of some of these idiot judges. 
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2008, 03:16:55 PM »
Not de first time that ...

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Won't be the last.

Offline Toppa

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 03:56:45 PM »
Part of the reasons the justice industry show bias toward police is that judges know that police must sometimes make quick descisions based on little information. The descision making ability of some of these cops is extremely poor. But they get the benfit of the doubt  partly in acknowledgement of this and partly to assauge the fear among police that they will be asked to become targets.

That said, the outcomes of these cases shows serious bias way beyond reasonable balancing of the respect for the job police have to do. Some people will say that because black people in America committ crimes in a far greater proportion than whites, the killings of citizens reflect the "criminal predisposition" of blacks. The fact that so many innocent blacks are being killed is precisely a reflection of such bigotry.

Judges and police are too spineless to confront it.

And that is completely false.
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 04:42:46 PM »

And that is completely false.

According to the FBI, it is true....http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/arrested/04-table43.html

And also the U.S. department of justice.......http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/vvr98.pdf


But the validity of these statisitcs, true, false or in-between, is of no consequence in this matter . The system disproportionaltely kills, arrest, convicts and dispenses harsher sentencing of black people and or so-called minorities. This is clearly contradictory to the U.S. justice systems explicitly stated claims to be egalitarian in nature. 
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Offline Midknight

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2008, 06:21:00 PM »
Quote
41 bullets and a black man
When will we ever stop counting our losses
41 bullets to the back man
Another one dead of natural causes
When they try to profile my quality of life
Its somehow covered in blood
An innocent man tries to take a bite of the apple
And bang bang bang he's gone to his god
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2008, 06:25:05 PM »
And that is completely false.
According to the FBI, it is true....http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/arrested/04-table43.html
And also the U.S. department of justice.......http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/vvr98.pdf
But the validity of these statistics, true, false or in-between, is of no consequence in this matter . The system disproportionately kills, arrest, convicts and dispenses harsher sentencing of black people and or so-called minorities. This is clearly contradictory to the U.S. justice systems explicitly stated claims to be egalitarian in nature. 
I agree wholeheartedly with Zandoh.

Toppa do you ever watch Judge Mathis? He is a Black Judge who used worked in Detroit before his TV Show.
well if you do, and I do nearly every day, you will hear that he is very confused with some of the sentences that White defendants get compared to what non white defendants get.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 06:33:55 PM by WestCoast »
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Offline Midknight

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2008, 06:29:03 PM »

And that is completely false.

According to the FBI, it is true....http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/arrested/04-table43.html

And also the U.S. department of justice.......http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/vvr98.pdf


But the validity of these statisitcs, true, false or in-between, is of no consequence in this matter . The system disproportionaltely kills, arrest, convicts and dispenses harsher sentencing of black people and or so-called minorities. This is clearly contradictory to the U.S. justice systems explicitly stated claims to be egalitarian in nature. 

Quote
Violent crimes are offenses of murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

What de hell is Forcible rape ???

Completely off topic, but who it was who say that stabbings wasn't counted as violent crimes?
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Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2008, 07:08:32 PM »
whey sharpton.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2008, 07:31:14 PM »
wey johnny cochrane?

Offline Bakes

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2008, 07:59:19 PM »

And that is completely false.

According to the FBI, it is true....http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/arrested/04-table43.html

And also the U.S. department of justice.......http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/vvr98.pdf


But the validity of these statisitcs, true, false or in-between, is of no consequence in this matter . The system disproportionaltely kills, arrest, convicts and dispenses harsher sentencing of black people and or so-called minorities. This is clearly contradictory to the U.S. justice systems explicitly stated claims to be egalitarian in nature. 

It is near impossible to quantify crime by demographic... the best you can get is statistics showing the demographics of the people caught up in the criminal justice system...which without even looking at them, I bet that's what your stats show.  These numbers only reflect the data on the individuals arrested/charged with crimes, not the ones committing them.  As we know the elevated scrutiny that minority groups are placed under likely will skew the stats higher.  That and sheer chance (criminals not getting caught) are two key factors that undermine any attempt to say that these figures are indicative of the people who are out there committing crime.

Offline Bakes

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2008, 08:00:29 PM »
wey johnny cochrane?

Johnny negotiating with Peter and dem...wha' yuh bothering he for?

Offline weary1969

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2008, 08:08:19 PM »
Not surprising dey go get some money in a civil suit
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Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2008, 08:26:20 PM »
all yuh hearin on news 2nite is bout sean bell.protesters march from de courthouse all de way dong jamaica ave and then to de club whey them strippers gettin ready to dance de nite away.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2008, 09:12:28 AM »

What de hell is Forcible rape ???


According to the FBI website, its carnal knowledge of a person forcibly or against that person’s will, or when a victim is mentally or physically incapable of giving consent.

So when  somebody blackmail or intimidate a person into sex they probably don't count that as "forcible rape".

As opposed to Kobe rape, when  a woman does rip out a man wallet through his genitals ;D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2008, 11:54:26 AM by ZANDOLIE »
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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2008, 03:48:20 PM »
 Real :'( fuh de Bell family and the young man's fiance/wife for their (and Black people's) loss as a result of this whole incident, trial and verdict, but much praise for the way they carried themselves thru it all. Contrast that to the low, classless and thuggish behaviour/comments by the respective heads of the police and detective unions, pat lynch and p.f. paladino.   
This was all very sad.

  The cops opted for a bench trial as is their right because they knew a jury was likely to have fond them guily of at least one or more of the charges.
The verdict was no surprise to me for many reasons, but the main one being that the District Attorney did a TERRIBLE job prosecuting this case. THAT, too, didn't surpise me since the DA is merely an extension of the police department anyway. Word in the media is that the DA's office was split down the middle about even bringing an indictment against the cops with one half
not wanting to do so and the other half wanting to......................only to appease the black community.
maybe that's why one of their biggest "blunders" was to read into evidence, all of the 3 cops' testimony to the grand jury, a move that automatically spared the cops of having to take the witness stand in their own defence and possibly trip up at cross-examination.  The only cop that was involved in the shooting and took the stand, per the prosecution, (whose grand jury testimony was obviously NOT read into evidence) was the one that was not charged with anything.........go figure.
 
 NYC cops are about as dishonest, nasty and corrupt as any common criminal and they will corroborate their stories and lie like the devil, and I do not believe for one second that the shooting went down exactly as they said it did, but for all the reasons y'all mentioned in your posts, the law is ALWAYS biased towards them. The judge in this case was given a poor case by the DA but he's STILL an old bastard dog for the reasons he gave for his verdict.

In all my twenty-something years living in this place, (save 4 years in texas) I can only recall all but ONE of the people that have lost their lives in nyc due to excessive force or abuse of authority by the nypd to have been black or hispanic. Black people don't have justice to look forward to any time soon. but eventually, what goes around, comes around.   
   

 

 


 


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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2008, 04:59:49 PM »
Amadou Diallo (41); Sean Bell ( 50-odd) ... dahiz 2 lives @ an average of over 45 bullets per victim ...

Offline Socafan

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2008, 11:04:58 AM »

And that is completely false.

According to the FBI, it is true....http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/arrested/04-table43.html

And also the U.S. department of justice.......http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/vvr98.pdf


But the validity of these statisitcs, true, false or in-between, is of no consequence in this matter . The system disproportionaltely kills, arrest, convicts and dispenses harsher sentencing of black people and or so-called minorities. This is clearly contradictory to the U.S. justice systems explicitly stated claims to be egalitarian in nature. 

According to these statistics, unless I'm reading wrong, there is nothing to indicate that "black people committ crimes far more than whites". Not even proportionately. Only in murder can the case be made and to me this is practically a "statistical" dead heat. Robbery for blacks is also high but given the disadvantaged economical state of this group, not surprising. In practicall all else, its proportional with some crimes such as rape seemingly a "white crime" and the final tally seems to me to indicate that in fact, whites commit more crimes totally and proportionally than blacks.

So unless I'm reading this wrong, I'll side with Toppa here. Your statement is completely false.
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Offline pecan

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2008, 11:22:14 AM »
for those sensitive forumite who feel i am out of line to bring Canada into this discussion .. I apologize

For the rest, here is a story about Police Cover ups in Toronto which is relevant because it speaks to how Police Forces may bend the law to their benefit

Background Info - 2006

Toronto's finest under fire
CBC News Online | Updated Nov. 21, 2006


Beating up drug dealers and stealing their money. Demanding cash from bar owners. Associating with a convicted criminal. Visiting casinos while on duty. Extortion, obstructing justice, assault, theft, perjury, corrupt practices. The allegations levelled against some of "Toronto's finest" are stunning .... read the rest in the above link.


Updated in April 2008

The Crown prosecutor in a collapsed corruption case against members of the Toronto police drug squad wrote letters in which he complained of a lack of support from the police department and at one point threatened to abandon the case, CBC News has learned.

In January, Ontario Superior Court Justice Ian Nordheimer threw out charges of conspiracy, theft and assault against members of a drug squad led by veteran officer John Schertzer. The charges were the result of a three-year, $8 million investigation by an RCMP-led special task force, which also included members of the Toronto and provincial forces.

The officers pleaded not guilty and have steadfastly maintained their innocence. None of the allegations made against them has been proven in court.  Read the rest in the link above


Corruption and excessive use of force exists all over .. .I do not know what the solution is ...
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Offline johnny_ringo

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2008, 01:50:02 PM »
when de Police go up Lavantille and shoot man in they head just fuh liming on de block we doh complain, why? Because the men they killing most of the time is "badman"
Same here- all 3 of the guys were scumbag, drug dealing, fake thug gangsta wanna-be's. It have NOTHING to do with Black/White.
His family & his baby mama on tv every chance they get talking bout how unfair the justice system is but were they so vocal when Mr. Bell was committing crimes (FACT & A MATTER OF PUBLIC INFO) & being a degenerate?

Offline Bakes

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2008, 02:38:32 PM »
when de Police go up Lavantille and shoot man in they head just fuh liming on de block we doh complain, why? Because the men they killing most of the time is "badman"
Same here- all 3 of the guys were scumbag, drug dealing, fake thug gangsta wanna-be's. It have NOTHING to do with Black/White.
His family & his baby mama on tv every chance they get talking bout how unfair the justice system is but were they so vocal when Mr. Bell was committing crimes (FACT & A MATTER OF PUBLIC INFO) & being a degenerate?

Nonsense post.


Unless the police knew for fact who they were shooting at then everything you say is immaterial.  For all the police knew they were shooting at a choir boy acolyte with a White House internship lined up for the summer.  The character of the victim has no bearings on the hasty, fatal actions of a few trigger happy cops with preconceived stereotypes of young black men dancing around in their heads while they squeezed off.

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Re: 50 Shots - Not Guilty in New YorKKK
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2008, 02:41:07 PM »
blasted poilce tigger happy..dem guilty of murder but get off.

 

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