W/Cup bonus judgment next week.

[Socapro]

Well said Brent.
I find Mr Fuentes comments which tried to paint the 2006 World Cup players in a bad light very disappointing.
TTFA need to get more professional when it comes to paying staff and players and living up to its legal agreements.

[Bakes]

Maybe it's my command of the English language that is failing me... but can someone point out the "lies and untruths" in this article?  Or maybe, show how the TTFA "tried to paint the 2006 World Cup players in a bad light"?

[Football supporter]

Maybe it's my command of the English language that is failing me... but can someone point out the "lies and untruths" in this article?  Or maybe, show how the TTFA "tried to paint the 2006 World Cup players in a bad light"?

Bakes, I'll try to help you.

Sancho's letter doesn't actually mention "lies" or "untruths".  The essence is that the truth is not being told. Which is different from telling lies.

For example, in May 2013, when the settlement was announced, Tim-Kee stated:

“The TTFF will like to acknowledge that the source of the funding came about as a result of a CONCACAF audit which discovered unclaimed commercial and broadcast revenues that were due to the TTFF for 2014 World Cup cycle,” stated the release. “Soon after Raymond Tim Kee’s appointment as President of the TTFF in December, the availability of the funds were brought to his attention.

“Upon recognising this and in keeping with his commitment to satisfy the outstanding obligation to the thirteen players, it was determined that applying these funds to the emerging settlement discussions was a just and reasonable action.”

So, this was not money allocated for any programme. It was additional money that was "discovered".

The article in the Newsday states:

In November, US$200,000 were paid, from the FIFA Assistance Programme, which clearly states that money must go towards the development of youth football and national teams.

“The TTFA received a waiver from FIFA to be able to use this fund towards settling these issues with the World Cup players. People need to understand there is ongoing efforts to meet the requirements to pay this off and that is taking away from football in general.”

Now, it doesn't actually say that the US$200,000 was paid to the players - which it wasn't - but when you read the statement it certainly infers to the general public that it was. And why? The money was supposed to come from Tim-Kees TV money, right?

Then Fuentes stated:

Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”

Again, not technically a lie, but not exactly the situation described by Tim-Kee back in May. Fuentes actually says that "football is suffering " because of this settlement. Not a lie. But it leads the reader to place the blame at the players feet for the lack of development. Fuentes says Beenhakker hasn't been paid because of the players settlement. Then he says :
And also, you look at the women’s team, a lot of people thought the team could have done much better with more preparation. And monies that have been used now to settle the situation that we are facing is money that should have been spent on the development of these national youth teams.”

Yet again, no body could deny that if money wasn't paid to the players, it could have been spent in other areas. But THE TRUTH is that Tim-Kee said this was additional money that was discovered, not money allocated for programmes.

Then Fuentes said :

“The last payment did not come as we or the players would have liked but the TTFA did not turn their backs on this agreement. When the monies come to the TTFA, it would obviously be channelled through to the players.”

But why hasn't Fuentes explained how money belonging to TTFA (the conveniently discovered TV money) is delayed. We were led to believe by Tim-Kee that the money was in TTFA hands already. So where is it now and why does TTFA need to wait for it to come through?

Finally, Fuentes said:
“The national ‘senior’ team is awaiting funding for matches and there are still coaches that are awaiting outstanding salaries. And yet we are trying to source the funds to ensure that these players receive their funding.”

So now the senior team is not funded, coaches and other salaries are unpaid, but good old TTFA are focusing on the 06 players payments. Again, as if the mismanagement of funds is because of Sancho et al.

There may not be actual lies, but I see a lot of dishonesty. This talk about money meant for development, lack of preparation, salaries not paid, Beenie not here, should not be in the same article as the TTFA's failure to pay as promised. Fuentes clearly wants the public to know that the settlement has damaged football at all levels, and still the players want more.

Tim-Kee clearly stated that the settlement money was from a previously unknown source. It wasn't included in any budget. It was new money. But now, suddenly, it was money taken from kids, and our brave girls and our national team.

It's deceptive and designed to win favour. I'm just surprised that intelligent people such as Bakes fell for it.

Sancho and friends believe that if there was this undiscovered TV money, it has been spent on other things. Perhaps TTFA used it in lieu of FIFA grassroots money or other promised funding, and that money hasn't materialised? Who knows?

So, will we see articles describing how Latapys settlement has damaged youth development etc? Or maybe TTFA will announce that Fuentes' salary was money that could have funded a football programme for disabled kids? I doubt it.

Basically, for whatever reason, TTFA haven't managed their funds to fulfill their promises. Of course the players aren't happy. But they also know that Phillips is trying his best. But trying to mislead the public by blaming all these sacrifices on the 06 warriors is typical of the previous regime. And that's why Sancho was angry 

[Tiresais]

Sounds like a convoluted corporate structure designed to avoid transparency and accountability to me...

[Errol]

Fuentes is a two face person, that I know, I am sure he getting his pay, I met him at games in the past, never introduce myself because I like to observe from a far, the man does carrying on like he working for BBC or CNN and no one else could come close. He can't even write and took the video thing to help eliminate some of his writing he need to do. I cant believe the Guardian pays this guy to copy and paste old articles from the internet, they have to be stupid, then again, they pay Alvin too.

Sancho and Fuentes was ring and finger at one time. How times have change.

I expect Sheldon to handle himself in a more professional manner.

Tim Kee is always suspect.

We have the same old personnel and we cannot expect different.

Alvin, Anton, Tim Kee, Fuentes etc.

I hope Sheldon distant himself because the little respect I have for him, I will lose it.

If they don't have the money to pay the guys, then say so from the beginning and stop running up your mouth before anything materialize.

[sjahrain]

Its time to change the channel

[Socapro]

Its time to change the channel

But we thought we changed the station but its seems to be the same programme with slightly different actors. 

[weary1969]

Its time to change the channel

But we thought we changed the station but its seems to be the same programme with slightly different actors. 

1 new actor Sheldon Phillip. All actors have been there in previous seasons.

[Agent Jack Bauer]

Didn't Channels 2 & 13 use tuh show d same ting 

[Bakes]

Sancho's letter doesn't actually mention "lies" or "untruths".  The essence is that the truth is not being told. Which is different from telling lies.

I was referring to Lasana's headline.

For example, in May 2013, when the settlement was announced, Tim-Kee stated:

“The TTFF will like to acknowledge that the source of the funding came about as a result of a CONCACAF audit which discovered unclaimed commercial and broadcast revenues that were due to the TTFF for 2014 World Cup cycle,” stated the release. “Soon after Raymond Tim Kee’s appointment as President of the TTFF in December, the availability of the funds were brought to his attention.

“Upon recognising this and in keeping with his commitment to satisfy the outstanding obligation to the thirteen players, it was determined that applying these funds to the emerging settlement discussions was a just and reasonable action.”

So, this was not money allocated for any programme. It was additional money that was "discovered".

The TTFA never said this money was allocated for any programme... that is FIFA money, don't get the two confused.  And note the red highlight above, they never said they actually had the money in hand, they said a funding "source" was identified and that money was "available".

The article in the Newsday states:

In November, US$200,000 were paid, from the FIFA Assistance Programme, which clearly states that money must go towards the development of youth football and national teams.

“The TTFA received a waiver from FIFA to be able to use this fund towards settling these issues with the World Cup players. People need to understand there is ongoing efforts to meet the requirements to pay this off and that is taking away from football in general.”

Now, it doesn't actually say that the US$200,000 was paid to the players - which it wasn't - but when you read the statement it certainly infers to the general public that it was. And why? The money was supposed to come from Tim-Kees TV money, right?

It does give the impression that the $200,000.00 was paid to the players.

Then Fuentes stated:

Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”

Again, not technically a lie, but not exactly the situation described by Tim-Kee back in May.

It's not at all a lie, not even slightly misleading... even if different from what Tim-Kee said.  Tim-Kee spoke about money they were expecting, money which clearly they haven't yet gotten.  All of that money could have been used for a number of things, including development of football.  Instead it was earmarked for the settlement.  Nothing at all wrong with the statment.

Fuentes actually says that "football is suffering " because of this settlement. Not a lie. But it leads the reader to place the blame at the players feet for the lack of development. Fuentes says Beenhakker hasn't been paid because of the players settlement. Then he says :
And also, you look at the women’s team, a lot of people thought the team could have done much better with more preparation. And monies that have been used now to settle the situation that we are facing is money that should have been spent on the development of these national youth teams.”

That is nonsense.  Why would anyone blame the players for the lack of funding for development?  If that is how your boy Sancho looking at it then he's being extremely thin-skinned.  Tough choices have to be made with regards to allocation of scarce funds, a decision was made to pay the players, to the detriment of everything else.  The players got $1.7 million USD right after the settlement was announced, where did that money come from?  Could it be that that was some of the CONCACAF TV money?  This is the problem when you have two sides who have been adversaries for so long that people have dug in their heels and their anger and distrust prevents them from being able to see the merits to the other side's position.  Sancho took offense to what Fuentes said... but what exactly?  How was his honor impugned?

Yet again, no body could deny that if money wasn't paid to the players, it could have been spent in other areas. But THE TRUTH is that Tim-Kee said this was additional money that was discovered, not money allocated for programmes.

Nobody said the settlement money was allocated for programmes... they said that $200,000 USD in FIFA money allocated for development was used for a payment (you said the payers never got paid).  The information I have is that the money was paid in November.  So either I have it wrong, or your source has it wrong.

Then Fuentes said :

“The last payment did not come as we or the players would have liked but the TTFA did not turn their backs on this agreement. When the monies come to the TTFA, it would obviously be channelled through to the players.”

But why hasn't Fuentes explained how money belonging to TTFA (the conveniently discovered TV money) is delayed. We were led to believe by Tim-Kee that the money was in TTFA hands already. So where is it now and why does TTFA need to wait for it to come through?

Tim-Kee never said the money was in hand, already addressed.  Agreed that perhaps it would be helpful to explain why the money was delayed, but maybe it's a sensitive matter with CONCACAF and the smart thing is to not throw the Confederation under the bus right now when you're dependent on them to get you out of a tight spot.

Finally, Fuentes said:
“The national ‘senior’ team is awaiting funding for matches and there are still coaches that are awaiting outstanding salaries. And yet we are trying to source the funds to ensure that these players receive their funding.”

So now the senior team is not funded, coaches and other salaries are unpaid, but good old TTFA are focusing on the 06 players payments. Again, as if the mismanagement of funds is because of Sancho et al.

There may not be actual lies, but I see a lot of dishonesty. This talk about money meant for development, lack of preparation, salaries not paid, Beenie not here, should not be in the same article as the TTFA's failure to pay as promised. Fuentes clearly wants the public to know that the settlement has damaged football at all levels, and still the players want more.

What "mismanagement of funds"... what is your basis for that statement?  Money is tight all around, this was the state that Camps and Groden et al left the then Federation.  Where did this money come from that the new TTFA has mismanaged?  Fuentes' statement is a statement of fact, there are a multitude of other places the money could have been earmarked for, but instead they are trying to do the right thing and honor the obligation to the players... and Sancho have the gaul to ask "why should the players be patient?"  Being impatient is going to help, how?

Tim-Kee clearly stated that the settlement money was from a previously unknown source. It wasn't included in any budget. It was new money. But now, suddenly, it was money taken from kids, and our brave girls and our national team.

You on shit yes.  You reading what you want to read.  It was "taken" from the women's team and the Senior MNT in the sense that it could have been earmarked for them instead but it wasn't.

It's deceptive and designed to win favour. I'm just surprised that intelligent people such as Bakes fell for it.

Don't blame me because I can read for understanding.  You are the one who keeps confusing and in some cases misconstruing what's been stated.

Sancho and friends believe that if there was this undiscovered TV money, it has been spent on other things. Perhaps TTFA used it in lieu of FIFA grassroots money or other promised funding, and that money hasn't materialised? Who knows?

So, will we see articles describing how Latapys settlement has damaged youth development etc? Or maybe TTFA will announce that Fuentes' salary was money that could have funded a football programme for disabled kids? I doubt it.

Basically, for whatever reason, TTFA haven't managed their funds to fulfill their promises. Of course the players aren't happy. But they also know that Phillips is trying his best. But trying to mislead the public by blaming all these sacrifices on the 06 warriors is typical of the previous regime. And that's why Sancho was angry 

Sancho needs to calm his ass down then, nobody blamed him for anything.  Where did they say "it's the players fault that the women's team didn't get funded better"?  That is how allyuh choose to take it, but that is not what they said.  It's not even implied that the players are at fault for the funding issue.  They mention it to show the tough choices they have had to make, and to underscore their commitment to settling the issue.  The point being, if they weren't serious they could have spent the money (including the initial tranche) on other things.  But Sancho blood to close to his skin to see it that way.

[Tiresais]

Sancho's letter doesn't actually mention "lies" or "untruths".  The essence is that the truth is not being told. Which is different from telling lies.

I was referring to Lasana's headline.

For example, in May 2013, when the settlement was announced, Tim-Kee stated:

“The TTFF will like to acknowledge that the source of the funding came about as a result of a CONCACAF audit which discovered unclaimed commercial and broadcast revenues that were due to the TTFF for 2014 World Cup cycle,” stated the release. “Soon after Raymond Tim Kee’s appointment as President of the TTFF in December, the availability of the funds were brought to his attention.

“Upon recognising this and in keeping with his commitment to satisfy the outstanding obligation to the thirteen players, it was determined that applying these funds to the emerging settlement discussions was a just and reasonable action.”

So, this was not money allocated for any programme. It was additional money that was "discovered".

The TTFA never said this money was allocated for any programme... that is FIFA money, don't get the two confused.  And note the red highlight above, they never said they actually had the money in hand, they said a funding "source" was identified and that money was "available".

The article in the Newsday states:

In November, US$200,000 were paid, from the FIFA Assistance Programme, which clearly states that money must go towards the development of youth football and national teams.

“The TTFA received a waiver from FIFA to be able to use this fund towards settling these issues with the World Cup players. People need to understand there is ongoing efforts to meet the requirements to pay this off and that is taking away from football in general.”

Now, it doesn't actually say that the US$200,000 was paid to the players - which it wasn't - but when you read the statement it certainly infers to the general public that it was. And why? The money was supposed to come from Tim-Kees TV money, right?

It does give the impression that the $200,000.00 was paid to the players.

Then Fuentes stated:

Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”

Again, not technically a lie, but not exactly the situation described by Tim-Kee back in May.

It's not at all a lie, not even slightly misleading... even if different from what Tim-Kee said.  Tim-Kee spoke about money they were expecting, money which clearly they haven't yet gotten.  All of that money could have been used for a number of things, including development of football.  Instead it was earmarked for the settlement.  Nothing at all wrong with the statment.

Fuentes actually says that "football is suffering " because of this settlement. Not a lie. But it leads the reader to place the blame at the players feet for the lack of development. Fuentes says Beenhakker hasn't been paid because of the players settlement. Then he says :
And also, you look at the women’s team, a lot of people thought the team could have done much better with more preparation. And monies that have been used now to settle the situation that we are facing is money that should have been spent on the development of these national youth teams.”

That is nonsense.  Why would anyone blame the players for the lack of funding for development?  If that is how your boy Sancho looking at it then he's being extremely thin-skinned.  Tough choices have to be made with regards to allocation of scarce funds, a decision was made to pay the players, to the detriment of everything else.  The players got $1.7 million USD right after the settlement was announced, where did that money come from?  Could it be that that was some of the CONCACAF TV money?  This is the problem when you have two sides who have been adversaries for so long that people have dug in their heels and their anger and distrust prevents them from being able to see the merits to the other side's position.  Sancho took offense to what Fuentes said... but what exactly?  How was his honor impugned?

Yet again, no body could deny that if money wasn't paid to the players, it could have been spent in other areas. But THE TRUTH is that Tim-Kee said this was additional money that was discovered, not money allocated for programmes.

Nobody said the settlement money was allocated for programmes... they said that $200,000 USD in FIFA money allocated for development was used for a payment (you said the payers never got paid).  The information I have is that the money was paid in November.  So either I have it wrong, or your source has it wrong.

Then Fuentes said :

“The last payment did not come as we or the players would have liked but the TTFA did not turn their backs on this agreement. When the monies come to the TTFA, it would obviously be channelled through to the players.”

But why hasn't Fuentes explained how money belonging to TTFA (the conveniently discovered TV money) is delayed. We were led to believe by Tim-Kee that the money was in TTFA hands already. So where is it now and why does TTFA need to wait for it to come through?

Tim-Kee never said the money was in hand, already addressed.  Agreed that perhaps it would be helpful to explain why the money was delayed, but maybe it's a sensitive matter with CONCACAF and the smart thing is to not throw the Confederation under the bus right now when you're dependent on them to get you out of a tight spot.

Finally, Fuentes said:
“The national ‘senior’ team is awaiting funding for matches and there are still coaches that are awaiting outstanding salaries. And yet we are trying to source the funds to ensure that these players receive their funding.”

So now the senior team is not funded, coaches and other salaries are unpaid, but good old TTFA are focusing on the 06 players payments. Again, as if the mismanagement of funds is because of Sancho et al.

There may not be actual lies, but I see a lot of dishonesty. This talk about money meant for development, lack of preparation, salaries not paid, Beenie not here, should not be in the same article as the TTFA's failure to pay as promised. Fuentes clearly wants the public to know that the settlement has damaged football at all levels, and still the players want more.

What "mismanagement of funds"... what is your basis for that statement?  Money is tight all around, this was the state that Camps and Groden et al left the then Federation.  Where did this money come from that the new TTFA has mismanaged?  Fuentes' statement is a statement of fact, there are a multitude of other places the money could have been earmarked for, but instead they are trying to do the right thing and honor the obligation to the players... and Sancho have the gaul to ask "why should the players be patient?"  Being impatient is going to help, how?

Tim-Kee clearly stated that the settlement money was from a previously unknown source. It wasn't included in any budget. It was new money. But now, suddenly, it was money taken from kids, and our brave girls and our national team.

You on shit yes.  You reading what you want to read.  It was "taken" from the women's team and the Senior MNT in the sense that it could have been earmarked for them instead but it wasn't.

It's deceptive and designed to win favour. I'm just surprised that intelligent people such as Bakes fell for it.

Don't blame me because I can read for understanding.  You are the one who keeps confusing and in some cases misconstruing what's been stated.

Sancho and friends believe that if there was this undiscovered TV money, it has been spent on other things. Perhaps TTFA used it in lieu of FIFA grassroots money or other promised funding, and that money hasn't materialised? Who knows?

So, will we see articles describing how Latapys settlement has damaged youth development etc? Or maybe TTFA will announce that Fuentes' salary was money that could have funded a football programme for disabled kids? I doubt it.

Basically, for whatever reason, TTFA haven't managed their funds to fulfill their promises. Of course the players aren't happy. But they also know that Phillips is trying his best. But trying to mislead the public by blaming all these sacrifices on the 06 warriors is typical of the previous regime. And that's why Sancho was angry 

Sancho needs to calm his ass down then, nobody blamed him for anything.  Where did they say "it's the players fault that the women's team didn't get funded better"?  That is how allyuh choose to take it, but that is not what they said.  It's not even implied that the players are at fault for the funding issue.  They mention it to show the tough choices they have had to make, and to underscore their commitment to settling the issue.  The point being, if they weren't serious they could have spent the money (including the initial tranche) on other things.  But Sancho blood to close to his skin to see it that way.

I think both sides believe their story is the truth in a number of regards on this forum. When it comes to interpretation it's in the holder, so it's much easier to get into arguments over it. We can only give what we interpreted from it, and I personally interpreted much the same as FS - the subtext being "don't blame us for X, it's cause we're paying the World Cup team". When set against each other, the meaning I pulled from this was that they are trying to shift the blame from a decision made by them, namely to commit to paying the wages from TV money 'found', to the World Cup players, who are said to be diverting resources away from other projects.

If Bakes pulls something else from this, then maybe the implication both I and FS pull from it isn't as obvious as we think and we should maybe pull back a little.

[Fantastic]

After reading some of these comments, I have to wonder why my ' AVAILABLE balance ' in my bank account.....is always, well, available. I see points on both sides, but I believe de intent of those comments(not sure of the timing) was to influence de public opinion somewhat unfairly 

[Bakes]

Here is the fundamental difference between me and some of the other people weighing in on the situation.  Unlike FS, Weary, Lasana, Brownsugar and a couple others, I don't know any of the players personally, I never rubbed shoulders with them, I never went to court and sit on "their" side of the aisle.  On the other hand, unlike Coop's, and perhaps a couple silent others, I don't have any friends in the administration either.  In short I have no personal or emotional investment in this.  This is not to suggest that the aforementioned forumites are incapable of looking at things objectively, but to underscore that I am trying to do just that.  We were all united in our opposition to the Warner/Camps/Groden TTFF.  Finally, after much lonsuffering we were able to get them out. 

Now we have a new regime in charge and by any objective measure, incremental steps are being taken to not only improve the performance of all our teams on ever level, but also to reform the administration of the local game.  Some of us choose to look at the glass half full, some see it half empty.  Some see the efforts being made and are willing to give the TTFA the benefit of the doubt.  Others look at the same situation and see the "same khaki pants".  Take the Akeem jersey situation, the TTFA get lambaste for it even though they didn't print any shirt, or profit in any way from it.  Whether the vendor (I forget the name of the company) profited, we don't know.  I seem to remember the TTFA saying they looked at the cost breakdown and were satisfied that there was no malfeasance... yet to this day the TTFA still getting blamed.

Same for the CFU combine... Lasana to this day still blaming the TTFA for that, even though the TTFA not in position to control these private professional club's players.  If it's not FIFA-related the TTFA has no control over the players, their function was that of a conduit.  Emails were produced to show that Phillips passed along the information to the clubs.  Yet we're still blaming the TTFA for "no TnT player getting invited to the CFU combine." It borders on the ridiculous.

[Football supporter]

Can't be bothered quoting that whole sequence there, but here are the highlights:

I said: So, this was not money allocated for any programme. It was additional money that was "discovered".
You said: The TTFA never said this money was allocated for any programme... that is FIFA money, don't get the two confused.  And note the red highlight above, they never said they actually had the money in hand, they said a funding "source" was identified and that money was "available".

There is no confusion on my part. I made it clear that this was "fresh money" so that people could see for themselves that this funding could not have impacted in any way on any other planned spending by TTFA.

If, as you say, they never actually had the money, then how the hell could they make a payment schedule? Surely, they would add a caveat that said "if the funds come through" In which case, the players may not have settled. I'm surprised that you would advocate wishful thinking as a basis for a legal agreement.

You said: It's not at all a lie, not even slightly misleading... even if different from what Tim-Kee said.  Tim-Kee spoke about money they were expecting, money which clearly they haven't yet gotten.  All of that money could have been used for a number of things, including development of football.  Instead it was earmarked for the settlement.  Nothing at all wrong with the statement.


Of course, you are completely incorrect. Look at the language - Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”
Pure BS. This was money that was discovered, apparently. Like if you won the lottery and then lost the ticket. You can't say "I lost my lottery ticket so I can't feed my kids" You should have had all programmes that you could afford to run, planned. Not plan programmes you can't afford. This was a windfall and was never targeted for any other use. It was never taken from funding, it was never going towards development, no one has suffered additionally. So it is utterly, completely, thoroughly misleading.
Of course, if there was no settlement, then the windfall certainly may have been used. But there was, so it wasn't.

You said: That is nonsense.  Why would anyone blame the players for the lack of funding for development?


Exactly, Sancho's point. Why would anyone blame them. Yet, unless English is your third or fourth language you cannot fail to understand that this is attempting to blame the players: Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players

It's not fact, so why say it? How can this not lead people to believe that the players received money which was taken from other programmes?

You said:The players got $1.7 million USD right after the settlement was announced, where did that money come from?  Could it be that that was some of the CONCACAF TV money?
One would hope so, because that's where Tim-Kee said it was coming from. If it wasn't from there, but from "funds that has been taken[/i] from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football." then TTFA are guilty of mismanaging funds a)because they made a settlement based on funds they didn't have and b) because having done so, they then place the blame for lack of funding with the players. Sounds very similar to TTFF style financial management.

You said: The information I have is that the money was paid in November.  So either I have it wrong, or your source has it wrong.

You have indeed got it wrong. No money has been paid aside from the initial payment. This has been well documented in the press since September.

You said: What "mismanagement of funds"

The first rule of financial planning/budgeting is not to commit funds you do not have. You spend money that you can guarantee. If this money wasn't guaranteed to TTFA by certain dates, that should have been made clear. By agreeing to make the payments, you are making a commitment. Of course, things can go wrong. In which case, admit there is a problem (which they did), but don't start trying to make the other party appear unreasonable because they want what was promised. You can't get vexed with T&TEC if you've used their electricity, then you don't receive some money promised to you by your auntie, and T&TEC cut you off. Only use the electricity you can pay for.

You said: You on shit yes.  You reading what you want to read.  It was "taken" from the women's team and the Senior MNT in the sense that it could have been earmarked for them instead but it wasn't.
Fuentes said: “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football."
Ain't no earmarking going on according to Fuentes. Read his words: “These are funds that has been taken" Can't be any clearer, therefore, actually, YOU ON SHIT.

You said: Don't blame me because I can read for understanding.  You are the one who keeps confusing and in some cases misconstruing what's been stated.

This is the problem when you have two sides who have been adversaries for so long that people have dug in their heels and their anger and distrust prevents them from being able to see the merits to the other side's position. 

Oh, damn...you wrote that, too!

I am not confused. I may be wrong, but we'll never know, because we're talking about opinion. In my opinion, the ordinary citizen will look at Fuentes comments and come away with the belief that money was "taken" from women, youths, SNT and coaches to pay the players. If that wasn't Fuentes intention, I apologise for the misunderstanding. But my question is: Why mention that money was "taken" from women, youths, SNT and coaches in the first place? It has nothing to do with the issue, which is that TTFA have failed to adhere to their agreement. Women, youths and SNT have nothing to do with the settlement, especially since Tim-Kee stated there was a separate source of funding for the settlement.

Finally, you said: Sancho needs to calm his ass down

To me, Sancho appears very calm. The letter was well written and included no coarse language, aimless threats or personal attacks. It just addressed quotes made by Fuentes and Tim-Kee. Now, if you want to advise people to calm down, I'd save it for Kelvin Jack who gets in town this week. Because I'm pretty sure he won't be as polite as Mr Sancho was.

[Football supporter]

Here is the fundamental difference between me and some of the other people weighing in on the situation.  Unlike FS, Weary, Lasana, Brownsugar and a couple others, I don't know any of the players personally, I never rubbed shoulders with them, I never went to court and sit on "their" side of the aisle.  On the other hand, unlike Coop's, and perhaps a couple silent others, I don't have any friends in the administration either.  In short I have no personal or emotional investment in this.  This is not to suggest that the aforementioned forumites are incapable of looking at things objectively, but to underscore that I am trying to do just that.  We were all united in our opposition to the Warner/Camps/Groden TTFF.  Finally, after much lonsuffering we were able to get them out. 

Now we have a new regime in charge and by any objective measure, incremental steps are being taken to not only improve the performance of all our teams on ever level, but also to reform the administration of the local game.  Some of us choose to look at the glass half full, some see it half empty.  Some see the efforts being made and are willing to give the TTFA the benefit of the doubt.  Others look at the same situation and see the "same khaki pants".  Take the Akeem jersey situation, the TTFA get lambaste for it even though they didn't print any shirt, or profit in any way from it.  Whether the vendor (I forget the name of the company) profited, we don't know.  I seem to remember the TTFA saying they looked at the cost breakdown and were satisfied that there was no malfeasance... yet to this day the TTFA still getting blamed.

Same for the CFU combine... Lasana to this day still blaming the TTFA for that, even though the TTFA not in position to control these private professional club's players.  If it's not FIFA-related the TTFA has no control over the players, their function was that of a conduit.  Emails were produced to show that Phillips passed along the information to the clubs.  Yet we're still blaming the TTFA for "no TnT player getting invited to the CFU combine." It borders on the ridiculous.

Bakes, I agree with most of what you have said here. Each of us have the right to judge a subject in the context that we understand it to mean. This forum is superb because we can then voice our take on an issue and sometimes our view will change. I felt Lasana was too critical about both the t shirt and the combine issue. I could see that both could have been dealt with better by TTFA, but God knows, none of us are perfect and we have all, at some time,  not carried out a task to the best of our ability for many various reasons.
My take on this Newsday article is that it was designed to shift public opinion . It may be that the journalist selected quotes that made it appear that way. In which case TTFA or Fuentes can cry foul and force an apology from Newsday and I'm sure Sancho would follow suit.

[Bakes]

If, as you say, they never actually had the money, then how the hell could they make a payment schedule? Surely, they would add a caveat that said "if the funds come through" In which case, the players may not have settled. I'm surprised that you would advocate wishful thinking as a basis for a legal agreement.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "advocate"... can you point to where I have "advocated" anything other than patience by the players?  There is absolutely nothing wrong with proposing a payment schedule based on financial projections that you have made.  I'm sure the players would not have agreed to a settlement absent such a schedule.

Of course, you are completely incorrect. Look at the language - Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”
Pure BS. This was money that was discovered, apparently. Like if you won the lottery and then lost the ticket. You can't say "I lost my lottery ticket so I can't feed my kids" You should have had all programmes that you could afford to run, planned. Not plan programmes you can't afford. This was a windfall and was never targeted for any other use. It was never taken from funding, it was never going towards development, no one has suffered additionally. So it is utterly, completely, thoroughly misleading.
Of course, if there was no settlement, then the windfall certainly may have been used. But there was, so it wasn't.

You do realize that this is the FIFA allocation of $200,000.00 USD that Fuentes is referring to here right?  This is why I said to you you will read what you want to read.  You are absolutely getting things confused because you refuse to see the statements in context.  There's the CONCACAF TV money, and then there's the FIFA Development money.  For the last time, don't confuse the two.


Exactly, Sancho's point. Why would anyone blame them. Yet, unless English is your third or fourth language you cannot fail to understand that this is attempting to blame the players: Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players

It's not fact, so why say it? How can this not lead people to believe that the players received money which was taken from other programmes?

You keep harping on that statement by Fuentes and it is clear you don't understand what he's talking about.  I won't bother explaining it for you again either.  Unlike you, not only is English my first language, I wield it in a commanding enough manner to have earned a bachelor degree in it, which by implication vouches for my comprehensive and expressive capabilities.

One would hope so, because that's where Tim-Kee said it was coming from. If it wasn't from there, but from "funds that has been taken[/i] from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football." then TTFA are guilty of mismanaging funds a)because they made a settlement based on funds they didn't have and b) because having done so, they then place the blame for lack of funding with the players. Sounds very similar to TTFF style financial management.

"Funds for development" is the FIFA money fella... geez.

You have indeed got it wrong. No money has been paid aside from the initial payment. This has been well documented in the press since September.

I choose to believe my source when they say that the $200,000.00 USD was paid in November.

The first rule of financial planning/budgeting is not to commit funds you do not have. You spend money that you can guarantee. If this money wasn't guaranteed to TTFA by certain dates, that should have been made clear. By agreeing to make the payments, you are making a commitment. Of course, things can go wrong. In which case, admit there is a problem (which they did), but don't start trying to make the other party appear unreasonable because they want what was promised. You can't get vexed with T&TEC if you've used their electricity, then you don't receive some money promised to you by your auntie, and T&TEC cut you off. Only use the electricity you can pay for.

Nonsense, that is the whole point of budgeting.  Have you never heard of "modeling" and projecting?  It's not always based on funds sitting in your account but based on projected revenue streams as well.  You still haven't shown where they "mismanaged funds", the implication of those words are quite clear= The TTFF had money, and they exercised poor fiscal control of that money.  Except you cannot prove that they ever had money, let alone money that was mismanaged.  More emotional poppycock.

Fuentes said: “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football."
Ain't no earmarking going on according to Fuentes. Read his words: “These are funds that has been taken" Can't be any clearer, therefore, actually, YOU ON SHIT.

You not only ON shit, you must be smoking shit too, since you can't understand that there are two funding sources being discussed.

This is the problem when you have two sides who have been adversaries for so long that people have dug in their heels and their anger and distrust prevents them from being able to see the merits to the other side's position. 

Oh, damn...you wrote that, too!

I am not confused. I may be wrong, but we'll never know, because we're talking about opinion. In my opinion, the ordinary citizen will look at Fuentes comments and come away with the belief that money was "taken" from women, youths, SNT and coaches to pay the players. If that wasn't Fuentes intention, I apologise for the misunderstanding. But my question is: Why mention that money was "taken" from women, youths, SNT and coaches in the first place? It has nothing to do with the issue, which is that TTFA have failed to adhere to their agreement. Women, youths and SNT have nothing to do with the settlement, especially since Tim-Kee stated there was a separate source of funding for the settlement.

Finally, you said: Sancho needs to calm his ass down

To me, Sancho appears very calm. The letter was well written and included no coarse language, aimless threats or personal attacks. It just addressed quotes made by Fuentes and Tim-Kee. Now, if you want to advise people to calm down, I'd save it for Kelvin Jack who gets in town this week. Because I'm pretty sure he won't be as polite as Mr Sancho was.

Jack can say what he wants... he's proven himself to be a hothead in this case time after time.  And since you clearly don't understand what "calm his ass down" meant, it doesn't suggest that he was excited, used coarse language and all that other pablum that you wrote.  It meant that he is overreacting to perceived slights that may not exists.  His emotions are too caught up in the case to allow him to think with a level head and appreciate what the other side is doing.  Only a fool would read Fuentes' statements and interpret that as him blaming the players for the funding issues.  If I say that I couldn't pay my credit card bill this month because I had to pay my light bill that isn't me blaming the electric company for me not paying my credit card bill... that's me describing my dire situation and saying that keeping my light on was more important.  Settling with the players was more important to the TTFA.  I don't understand why allyuh can't see that.

[elan]

I guess my reading level is very poor because I came to the conclusion after reading Fuentes remarks that because the TTFA committed to paying off the players the football programs cannot be funded. How else to read this

Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”

Fuentes IS implying that because the TTFA has to pay the players National Programs are suffering.

He continued, “There has been comments that the players saw what has gone on with (former coach Russell) Latapy. He has not been paid any money, there has been an agreement towards a settlement. Leo Beenhakker has not been paid a salary, hence the reason he’s not here right now. And also, you look at the women’s team, a lot of people thought the team could have done much better with more preparation. And monies that have been used now to settle the situation that we are facing is money that should have been spent on the development of these national youth teams.”

How could one misinterpret these comment.   

[Football supporter]

Two men walked into an office holding a newspaper and said "We've come about the jobs advertised in the paper, but I'm afraid there's only two of us"
The manager looked puzzled, so the man holding the paper showed him the want ad. It said
TREE FELLERS WANTED

Point being that one person knows what he wants to say, but that doesn't mean that the next guy hears the same thing. Maybe Fuentes didn't mean the comments in the same context as the journalist wrote them or Sancho and others interpreted them. In which case, Fuentes just needs to clarify that.

[Bakes]

I guess my reading level is very poor because I came to the conclusion after reading Fuentes remarks that because the TTFA committed to paying off the players the football programs cannot be funded. How else to read this

Fuentes IS implying that because the TTFA has to pay the players National Programs are suffering.

How could one misinterpret these comment.   

He's not implying that... he's flat-out stating that is the case.  But that's different from blaming the players for the funding issue.  Commence rotation on the hamster wheel.

[Bakes]

Two men walked into an office holding a newspaper and said "We've come about the jobs advertised in the paper, but I'm afraid there's only two of us"
The manager looked puzzled, so the man holding the paper showed him the want ad. It said
TREE FELLERS WANTED

Point being that one person knows what he wants to say, but that doesn't mean that the next guy hears the same thing. Maybe Fuentes didn't mean the comments in the same context as the journalist wrote them or Sancho and others interpreted them. In which case, Fuentes just needs to clarify that.

Agreed.  I'd also have to listen to how he stated it as well... it could very well have been some chicanery intended.  I don't mean to suggest that I don't see how his statments could be taken the way Sancho et al seem to take them.  I just think that there's a knee-jerk reaction where the TTFA is concerned where words that on their face are innocuous, can be taken as an offense.

[amwood]

Here nah, who the hell would want to have anything to do with Trinidad and Tobago football, at any level??? What ah mess! 

[Football supporter]

Two men walked into an office holding a newspaper and said "We've come about the jobs advertised in the paper, but I'm afraid there's only two of us"
The manager looked puzzled, so the man holding the paper showed him the want ad. It said
TREE FELLERS WANTED

Point being that one person knows what he wants to say, but that doesn't mean that the next guy hears the same thing. Maybe Fuentes didn't mean the comments in the same context as the journalist wrote them or Sancho and others interpreted them. In which case, Fuentes just needs to clarify that.

Agreed.  I'd also have to listen to how he stated it as well... it could very well have been some chicanery intended.  I don't mean to suggest that I don't see how his statments could be taken the way Sancho et al seem to take them.  I just think that there's a knee-jerk reaction where the TTFA is concerned where words that on their face are innocuous, can be taken as an offense.

I believe that may well be the case. The players took a leap of faith regarding Tim-Kee, who was, after all, a key player in the previous regime. Maybe more than any of us, they were looking for more of the same and once the payment didn't arrive in September they moved their status from green to amber. Of course, Shaka, having known Sheldon Phillips for many years has more belief in TTFA than the others, and therefore has more confidence that everything is kosher and there is no underhandedness taking place.

[elan]

I guess my reading level is very poor because I came to the conclusion after reading Fuentes remarks that because the TTFA committed to paying off the players the football programs cannot be funded. How else to read this

Fuentes IS implying that because the TTFA has to pay the players National Programs are suffering.

How could one misinterpret these comment.   

He's not implying that... he's flat-out stating that is the case.  But that's different from blaming the players for the funding issue.  Commence rotation on the hamster wheel.

Uh.........yes he was. If that was not the intended picture he wanted to paint, then why be so specific, re:the U20 women's team. His comments were meant to elicit a negative reaction from the public (being on a high from the recent U20 WC qualifiers and sympathetic to the women's plight) of the players (Sancho, and others). This is why he purposefully stated that the U20 team could have done better had the funds they paid to the players been available. Do play smart with dotish.

Doh worry I typed slowly

[Bakes]

Uh.........yes he was. If that was not the intended picture he wanted to paint, then why be so specific, re:the U20 women's team. His comments were meant to elicit a negative reaction from the public (being on a high from the recent U20 WC qualifiers and sympathetic to the women's plight) of the players (Sancho, and others). This is why he purposefully stated that the U20 team could have done better had the funds they paid to the players been available. Do play smart with dotish.

Doh worry I typed slowly

Type slow, type fast it doesn't make your position any more persuasive.  I'm not a mind reader so I won't comment on what Fuentes intended by his comments.  As I said, I read them as a statement as to the TTFA's commitment to working things out with the payments.  "Look we could'a do all kinds ah thing with the money, but no, we sacrificed X, Y, and Z in order to try and settle this first.  Things ain't work out the way either side expected, but this is a small hiccup, just be patient and give us a chance."  Clearly you and several others see things differently, so we just have to agree to disagree and move on.

[Tiresais]

Uh.........yes he was. If that was not the intended picture he wanted to paint, then why be so specific, re:the U20 women's team. His comments were meant to elicit a negative reaction from the public (being on a high from the recent U20 WC qualifiers and sympathetic to the women's plight) of the players (Sancho, and others). This is why he purposefully stated that the U20 team could have done better had the funds they paid to the players been available. Do play smart with dotish.

Doh worry I typed slowly

Type slow, type fast it doesn't make your position any more persuasive.  I'm not a mind reader so I won't comment on what Fuentes intended by his comments.  As I said, I read them as a statement as to the TTFA's commitment to working things out with the payments.  "Look we could'a do all kinds ah thing with the money, but no, we sacrificed X, Y, and Z in order to try and settle this first.  Things ain't work out the way either side expected, but this is a small hiccup, just be patient and give us a chance."  Clearly you and several others see things differently, so we just have to agree to disagree and move on.

Yea You all agree on the majority of issues here, except the final logic step which Bakes refutes - namely that we draw the inference that Fuentes is blaming the players for the diversion of money, whilst Bakes understood his statement to be simply a statement of fact without attributed blame.

[elan]

Uh.........yes he was. If that was not the intended picture he wanted to paint, then why be so specific, re:the U20 women's team. His comments were meant to elicit a negative reaction from the public (being on a high from the recent U20 WC qualifiers and sympathetic to the women's plight) of the players (Sancho, and others). This is why he purposefully stated that the U20 team could have done better had the funds they paid to the players been available. Do play smart with dotish.

Doh worry I typed slowly

Type slow, type fast it doesn't make your position any more persuasive.  I'm not a mind reader so I won't comment on what Fuentes intended by his comments.  As I said, I read them as a statement as to the TTFA's commitment to working things out with the payments.  "Look we could'a do all kinds ah thing with the money, but no, we sacrificed X, Y, and Z in order to try and settle this first.  Things ain't work out the way either side expected, but this is a small hiccup, just be patient and give us a chance."  Clearly you and several others see things differently, so we just have to agree to disagree and move on.

Yea You all agree on the majority of issues here, except the final logic step which Bakes refutes - namely that we draw the inference that Fuentes is blaming the players for the diversion of money, whilst Bakes understood his statement to be simply a statement of fact without attributed blame.

But that it's not fully a statement of fact.

[Tallman]

Brent Sancho tells Raw Sport TV 'Enough is Enough' and calls on TTFA to get its act together and go after old administration for monies owed or face the music in Court.
https://www.facebook.com/socawarriors.net/posts/10151895713533093

[Socapro]

Brent Sancho tells Raw Sport TV 'Enough is Enough' and calls on TTFA to get its act together and go after old administration for monies owed or face the music in Court.
https://www.facebook.com/socawarriors.net/posts/10151895713533093

Very productive interview and many thanks to Brent for clarifying everything for us.
We also need back our Centre of Excellence when we go after the stolen money.
I left these comments on the facebook page also. 

[dreamer]

Excellent stuff by Sancho. What a brave young man. Fearless. Some characters on this site who belong to the Horner posse will resent you for voicing this stuff so eloquently ... but I say to them, go to hell and burn like a charburger. The truth is the truth and you must be lauded for doing what most of us have NO guts to do. May God reward you handsomely for your sacrifice and may you face minimal further perfection for this.

[Tallman]

TTFA President Raymond Tim Kee stands firm on World Cup saga; Explains TTFA's position on the agreement with the 2006 Soca Warriors and tells them feel free to take the matter to Court.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/4Vh-sVzNlSk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/4Vh-sVzNlSk</a>