Keane fights to keep hitman Jones.

[dinho]

kev, i agree with everything you posted there...

good post.

[kev]

Kev (I didn't bother with the essay) but no bias here. If teams willing to pay $$ for him and he gets a chance to play for a team that actually contends.. then I say go for it.

You try to educate people and thats all the thanks you get

[truetrini]

see here Kev, I agree that Ken is far from the finished product.  But to be honest your assessment of him not being able to run at defenders is piss poor.

He has in fact run at defenders to great effect just ask Sol Campbell and JohnTerry.

The truth is he is the lone player up front so often for Sundeland that he HAS TO PLAY WITH HIS BACK TO THE GOAL more often than not.

Maybe next year we will all see the truth about his abilities.  But agin I take umbrage with your statements regarding his inability to create space.

How can he create space when 9 out of ten times the ball is, as you say "Hoofed to him?"  He is often described by the commentators as the lonely front man  both in print and in the other media.  He is also always decribed as a handful and great trouble to defenders all over the EPL.

I beleive that with a proper midfield we will see Kenwyne blossom.

[Dinner Mints]

see here Kev, I agree that Ken is far from the finished product.  But to be honest your assessment of him not being able to run at defenders is piss poor.

He has in fact run at defenders to great effect just ask Sol Campbell and JohnTerry.

The truth is he is the lone player up front so often for Sundeland that he HAS TO PLAY WITH HIS BACK TO THE GOAL more often than not.

Maybe next year we will all see the truth about his abilities.  But agin I take umbrage with your statements regarding his inability to create space.

How can he create space when 9 out of ten times the ball is, as you say "Hoofed to him?"  He is often described by the commentators as the lonely front man  both in print and in the other media.  He is also always decribed as a handful and great trouble to defenders all over the EPL.

I beleive that with a proper midfield we will see Kenwyne blossom.

Everyone knows Kenwyne can run at defenders. Kev is saying his running off the ball is poor. Two different things.

[kev]

see here Kev, I agree that Ken is far from the finished product.  But to be honest your assessment of him not being able to run at defenders is piss poor.

He has in fact run at defenders to great effect just ask Sol Campbell and JohnTerry.

The truth is he is the lone player up front so often for Sundeland that he HAS TO PLAY WITH HIS BACK TO THE GOAL more often than not.

Maybe next year we will all see the truth about his abilities.  But agin I take umbrage with your statements regarding his inability to create space.

How can he create space when 9 out of ten times the ball is, as you say "Hoofed to him?"  He is often described by the commentators as the lonely front man  both in print and in the other media.  He is also always decribed as a handful and great trouble to defenders all over the EPL.

I beleive that with a proper midfield we will see Kenwyne blossom.

I suggest you read what I have  written again, try not being so defensive. He can run at defenders, but as Dry So has pointed out that is not what I said or meant.

I know and was at pains to point out there is little alternative at teh minute, which is playing to Kenwyns strengths, because of the poor midfield. 

What i was pointing out there is 2 options at the minute with Kenwyn, the ball is played upto him with 1 / 2 defenders at his back or he chases the ball where it is played.  If you watch the game you will see Kenwyn very rarely is ever moves off the defender or starts a run so a midfield player can put a pass in front of him ( not that with our midfeild it would go anywhere near where he wanted it.) Thats why he is always playing catch up, rarely caught offside, if you watch other forwards you will see the difference.  There are 2 sides to every coin, if he doesn't make the runs he wont learn and the midfielders can try and find him, if the midfield can't find him its pointless making the runs. For all of this season neither has happened. I suggest you watch other forwards that are not as blessed as Kenwyn in pace or strength and see how they make a yard or two to do their job.

[JDB]

see here Kev, I agree that Ken is far from the finished product. But to be honest your assessment of him not being able to run at defenders is piss poor.

He has in fact run at defenders to great effect just ask Sol Campbell and JohnTerry.

The truth is he is the lone player up front so often for Sundeland that he HAS TO PLAY WITH HIS BACK TO THE GOAL more often than not.

Maybe next year we will all see the truth about his abilities. But agin I take umbrage with your statements regarding his inability to create space.

How can he create space when 9 out of ten times the ball is, as you say "Hoofed to him?" He is often described by the commentators as the lonely front man both in print and in the other media. He is also always decribed as a handful and great trouble to defenders all over the EPL.

I beleive that with a proper midfield we will see Kenwyne blossom.

Kev has it spot on about Kenwyne’s play off the ball. Selfless and sensible running off the ball is not natural to TNT players.

I remember a game earlier in the season when Chopra or Murphy get played on by Kenwyne and take a shot. It come off the post and sit down in the six yard box. Where Kenwyne? Walking outside the penalty area watching the play. He is prone to those kinds of shutdowns when the ball is ahead of him or on the other side of the field.

Also we does call Stern lazy but Stern spares no energy getting into those positions where he could score goals, very much like Lineker or Van Nistelrooy. 9 out of 10 time sth e ball is nowhere near him but when it deflects, rebounds or gets missed by a defender he is right there to take advantage.

The good thing for Kenwyne is that he could learn positional sense and sensible running.

[SUPA]

Run Kenwyne RUN! You eh going no-where with that shyte side. Say thanks for the opportunity and move to a top 5 team. Doh wait!

Its because the side is so shyte he looks so good.

If Sunderland could double their money on him I would be happy enough to wave him goodbye.

Be careful what you wish for look at Crouch, not a player I paricularly rate but certainly a better goalscorer tha Kenwyn, how many games has he played this season? 

One of your own and I know bias always creeps in, but I'm afraid no where near good enough for a top 4 side, but your right the money would be good.

Kev,

I like your points and how you put it acrross to us on this forum. Wid not much extra to add to your post, hear my question now, doh run and hide yuh know, rap tuh de bredda, seen. These clubs dey all have world class coaches dat see something in KJ, and are all interested in his services, cool. So wid dat said now, are you saying dat you and a few others on dis forum , have more knowledge about de game dan Fergie, Wenger, Grant and Benitez, to determine if he good enough for the top 4 side?  Dis is not being bias, cuz check dis out, right now I don't think he cud start on most of these teams, but I do know dat he cud get valuable minutes off de bench and depending on his form, he cud burst in to the starting team.

Remember, these teams have a lot of ball to play, so dey need a lot of depth in their squads, for injuries and players loosing their touch as de season go along.  Like I said before when he get de kind ah service from other strikers or midfielders, dat Drogba, Rooney, Tevez and dem other big strikers does get and his goals are not between 15 - 20 a season then we cud say he not ready. Obviously it will be tuff, but his height, speed and strength is a package dat most players don't have. Wid de right coach (Fergie,etc) he just have to improve on areas dat need to be improved on  . HIGHLY BLESSED.

[fishs]

 Simple fact is , if Keane get the right deal for KJ ... he will be sold.
Money talks everything else walks.

[SUPA]

 Simple fact is , if Keane get the right deal for KJ ... he will be sold.
Money talks everything else walks.

Dat part is definitely understood, well at least by me. But the discussion is based on Kev's and some other members opinion in de past, on whether KJ ready to play for any one of the four top teams in de EPL  . HIGHLY BLESSED.

[dinho]

Arsenal -

- KJ is not starting before Adebayor or Van Persie. If they wanted him, they would probably have to get rid of Bendtner who is the 'target man' backup forward to Adebayor. Walcott will probably back up Van Persie next year and they may go for another nippy man forward to replace Eduardo if he is not coming back. The way Arsenal play makes a KJ/Adebayor front pairing unworkable.

Manchester -

- Ferguson is rumored to be a looking for a forward to provide more physical presence so this could be an option. There was some talk about Dean Ashton. He will probably get rid of Saha, but he has Manucho who is a physical presence. In any case, KJ is not starting before Rooney or Tevez.

Chelsea -

- Only if Drogba leaves Chelsea will KJ be an option to get any significant minutes there. And if Drogba doesn't leave, KJ is not starting in front of Drogba. However if he does leave, I would be surprised given Chelsea's interest in proven talent, whether they put the faith of their forward line on KJ's shoulders. Even though John Terry rates him highly, I doubt he could hold down a regular starting spot at Chelsea.

Liverpool -

- Liverpool need a physical front man to be a foil for Torres.. Kuyt blowed hot and cold this year and hasn't proven himself in the EPL so there is an opening there. Voronin backs up Torres, and Crouch is out of favor. I could see KJ starting with Torres if Liverpool sell Crouch and Kuyt continues to be inconsistent in the EPL. But on the other hand, Rafa did say he wanted to keep Crouch. The off season moves will tell.

I think Liverpool is his most likely destination in the top 4 to succeed.

[kev]

Run Kenwyne RUN! You eh going no-where with that shyte side. Say thanks for the opportunity and move to a top 5 team. Doh wait!

Its because the side is so shyte he looks so good.

If Sunderland could double their money on him I would be happy enough to wave him goodbye.

Be careful what you wish for look at Crouch, not a player I paricularly rate but certainly a better goalscorer tha Kenwyn, how many games has he played this season? 

One of your own and I know bias always creeps in, but I'm afraid no where near good enough for a top 4 side, but your right the money would be good.

Kev,

I like your points and how you put it acrross to us on this forum. Wid not much extra to add to your post, hear my question now, doh run and hide yuh know, rap tuh de bredda, seen. These clubs dey all have world class coaches dat see something in KJ, and are all interested in his services, cool. So wid dat said now, are you saying dat you and a few others on dis forum , have more knowledge about de game dan Fergie, Wenger, Grant and Benitez, to determine if he good enough for the top 4 side?  Dis is not being bias, cuz check dis out, right now I don't think he cud start on most of these teams, but I do know dat he cud get valuable minutes off de bench and depending on his form, he cud burst in to the starting team.

Remember, these teams have a lot of ball to play, so dey need a lot of depth in their squads, for injuries and players loosing their touch as de season go along.  Like I said before when he get de kind ah service from other strikers or midfielders, dat Drogba, Rooney, Tevez and dem other big strikers does get and his goals are not between 15 - 20 a season then we cud say he not ready. Obviously it will be tuff, but his height, speed and strength is a package dat most players don't have. Wid de right coach (Fergie,etc) he just have to improve on areas dat need to be improved on  . HIGHLY BLESSED.

You missing the point though Kenwyn has been linked with these teams, it doesn't necessarily mean those clubs are interested in Kenwyn.  So to say all those managers are interested in him is pure speculation, no more no less.  Many players will be linked with those teams this summer, many will be false links and those particular clubs will have no interest in the players.  but it raises they profile and gets other clubs interested in them. 

Kenwyn will be linked with every top 10 club this summer at some point.

I stand by what I have said, Kenwyn isn't good enough to hold down a regular first team place at a top 4 team.  The only one he would come anywhere close is Arsenal.  But he has enormous potential and those clubs like potential.

I have already said that I expect someone to bid for him, as for if the deal is right, I have said that all along, its always been the case in football and always will be. I repeat if the club is offered silly money due to the hype then I would happily wave him goodbye with all my best wishes and thanks. 

Either way we will find out next season if he is the real deal or not, we will have a better midfield or Kenwyn will be at a different club.

omarldinho Rafa if he is still there doesn't like 2 up front, he prefers playing someone just behind Torres, hence Crouch very rarely plays.

[truetrini]

Kev there is no defensiveness on my part, there are however inconsistencies in your analysis.

Kenwyne cannot run off the ball you say, yet you readily concede that the midfield has a hard time finding him when he is standing still farless when he is in motion.  You also have failed to recognize he plays according ro the role provided by the coach.  He is often the lone forward..so he garners a whole lot of attention.  while I agree that he is far from the finished product, he is better than you think!

He may need to improve his first touch andd his ability to remain more composed in front of goal, but you have also overlooked his assists this year!  As a well marked man and oftentimes the lone man up top for Sunderland he had what?  10 assists this year?  That ays a lot...and yes I concede that he should have hd at least5-6 more assists, but that si they sign of a good forward, the hunger to score.  nd a tinge of selfishenss.

I totally disagree that anyone can make an assesment on his inability/ability to run off the bakll based on the system in which he had to play this year.  even you agree that your midfield was abysmal.

I also listened to most of the sunderland games and saw quite a few live on tv, and I am yet to hear one commentator or pundit refer to him as being a mere pub player.

Without Kenwyn we would of been dead and buried this year without doubt.  He is a natural athlete playing in a poor side. ( not a shite side, as I have supported Sunderland a very long time and trust me this is not a shite side compared to some I have watched.)  The side plays to his strengths hoofing the ball out, he is a good header of the ball, he is strong and can give any defender the run around on his day.  Indeed he can be simply unplayable.  So  Kenwyn has been a stand out player and has indeed attracted the attention of the press along with the hype. 

Kenwyn however is far from the finished article, will he ever be the finished article is really down to Kenwyn.  He is great with his back to goal and as a target, his running off the ball is poor.  That maybe of course that the players can't seem to hit him when he is standing still yet alone moving.  But he doesn't vreate space for himself and is usually jumping at the ball or running after it. It doesn't happen often, but he does not get himself into dangerous positions in the box when the ball is wide in open play, far too often he is behind the players or outside the box, again his movement / anticipation  needs a great deal of improvement.  His first touch in inconsistant.   He is not a natural finisher, just look at the last few games, on Saturaday he had 2 chances in the 6 yard box, at least 1 should of been a goal. He also missed easy chances against Boro, Newcastle and Chelsea, he needs to improve his finsihing and composure in front of goal.

As previously mentioned Kenwyn can be unplayable, now it is unreasonable to expect him to put that performance in week in week out, but those performances are there.  Is it unreasonable as a fan to expect him to play like that more than 1 in 6/7/8 games? A good player will put that level of performance in probably 2 out of 3 games at least over the season.  Since before the Liverpool game Kenwyn has probably put in that performance 2/3 times. 

[GunnerStunner]

bring carlos and jones to the grove

[Dinner Mints]

Kev there is no defensiveness on my part, there are however inconsistencies in your analysis.

Kenwyne cannot run off the ball you say, yet you readily concede that the midfield has a hard time finding him when he is standing still farless when he is in motion.  You also have failed to recognize he plays according ro the role provided by the coach.  He is often the lone forward..so he garners a whole lot of attention.  while I agree that he is far from the finished product, he is better than you think!

He may need to improve his first touch andd his ability to remain more composed in front of goal, but you have also overlooked his assists this year!  As a well marked man and oftentimes the lone man up top for Sunderland he had what?  10 assists this year?  That ays a lot...and yes I concede that he should have hd at least5-6 more assists, but that si they sign of a good forward, the hunger to score.  nd a tinge of selfishenss.

I totally disagree that anyone can make an assesment on his inability/ability to run off the bakll based on the system in which he had to play this year.  even you agree that your midfield was abysmal.

I also listened to most of the sunderland games and saw quite a few live on tv, and I am yet to hear one commentator or pundit refer to him as being a mere pub player.

Without Kenwyn we would of been dead and buried this year without doubt.  He is a natural athlete playing in a poor side. ( not a shite side, as I have supported Sunderland a very long time and trust me this is not a shite side compared to some I have watched.)  The side plays to his strengths hoofing the ball out, he is a good header of the ball, he is strong and can give any defender the run around on his day.  Indeed he can be simply unplayable.  So  Kenwyn has been a stand out player and has indeed attracted the attention of the press along with the hype. 

Kenwyn however is far from the finished article, will he ever be the finished article is really down to Kenwyn.  He is great with his back to goal and as a target, his running off the ball is poor.  That maybe of course that the players can't seem to hit him when he is standing still yet alone moving.  But he doesn't vreate space for himself and is usually jumping at the ball or running after it. It doesn't happen often, but he does not get himself into dangerous positions in the box when the ball is wide in open play, far too often he is behind the players or outside the box, again his movement / anticipation  needs a great deal of improvement.  His first touch in inconsistant.   He is not a natural finisher, just look at the last few games, on Saturaday he had 2 chances in the 6 yard box, at least 1 should of been a goal. He also missed easy chances against Boro, Newcastle and Chelsea, he needs to improve his finsihing and composure in front of goal.

As previously mentioned Kenwyn can be unplayable, now it is unreasonable to expect him to put that performance in week in week out, but those performances are there.  Is it unreasonable as a fan to expect him to play like that more than 1 in 6/7/8 games? A good player will put that level of performance in probably 2 out of 3 games at least over the season.  Since before the Liverpool game Kenwyn has probably put in that performance 2/3 times. 

How about the same complaints about his off-the-ball work at Southampton, a team with a brilliant midfield (at that level) that was playing to his strengths.

Ain't no shame in saying KJ need to work on his game. He's not the finished product yet.

[truetrini]

felaa yuh is ah clown or what/

southampton had a briliant midfield?

steups

so he is not the finished product wey I say he is?

moisten yuhself  yuh too f**king dry

[kev]

Kev there is no defensiveness on my part, there are however inconsistencies in your analysis.

There's not if you read what I am saying

Kenwyne cannot run off the ball you say, yet you readily concede that the midfield has a hard time finding him when he is standing still farless when he is in motion.  You also have failed to recognize he plays according ro the role provided by the coach.  He is often the lone forward..so he garners a whole lot of attention.  while I agree that he is far from the finished product, he is better than you think!

He does play up front by himself, but I am fairly sure he is not coached to stand next to the centre half and wait.

He may need to improve his first touch andd his ability to remain more composed in front of goal, but you have also overlooked his assists this year!  As a well marked man and oftentimes the lone man up top for Sunderland he had what?  10 assists this year?  That ays a lot...and yes I concede that he should have hd at least5-6 more assists, but that si they sign of a good forward, the hunger to score.  nd a tinge of selfishenss.

He has had quite a few assists, quite a few from set pieces. In the Bolton game he missed 2 clear opportunities from 4/5 yards beacuse of his lack of anticipation and poor judgement.  boro missed 1 if not 2 headers inside the 6 yard box, the same newcastle same chelsea.

I totally disagree that anyone can make an assesment on his inability/ability to run off the bakll based on the system in which he had to play this year.  even you agree that your midfield was abysmal.

You can disagree all you want, but the evidence is there week in week out, and yes it part down to the midfield.  But Kenwyn does tend to make it easy for the defenders to mark him with his lack of movement.

I also listened to most of the sunderland games and saw quite a few live on tv, and I am yet to hear one commentator or pundit refer to him as being a mere pub player.

Try watching sky

I don't think Kenwyn is bad at all, in fact I have been at pains to suggest how good he could be, I am just pointing out he is not as good as the hype suggests, we are just going to go around in circles and its pointless. I am suprised you haven't come back at me with why he is only unplayable every 6/7/8 games or so.

Without Kenwyn we would of been dead and buried this year without doubt.  He is a natural athlete playing in a poor side. ( not a shite side, as I have supported Sunderland a very long time and trust me this is not a shite side compared to some I have watched.)  The side plays to his strengths hoofing the ball out, he is a good header of the ball, he is strong and can give any defender the run around on his day.  Indeed he can be simply unplayable.  So  Kenwyn has been a stand out player and has indeed attracted the attention of the press along with the hype. 

Kenwyn however is far from the finished article, will he ever be the finished article is really down to Kenwyn.  He is great with his back to goal and as a target, his running off the ball is poor.  That maybe of course that the players can't seem to hit him when he is standing still yet alone moving.  But he doesn't vreate space for himself and is usually jumping at the ball or running after it. It doesn't happen often, but he does not get himself into dangerous positions in the box when the ball is wide in open play, far too often he is behind the players or outside the box, again his movement / anticipation  needs a great deal of improvement.  His first touch in inconsistant.   He is not a natural finisher, just look at the last few games, on Saturaday he had 2 chances in the 6 yard box, at least 1 should of been a goal. He also missed easy chances against Boro, Newcastle and Chelsea, he needs to improve his finsihing and composure in front of goal.

As previously mentioned Kenwyn can be unplayable, now it is unreasonable to expect him to put that performance in week in week out, but those performances are there.  Is it unreasonable as a fan to expect him to play like that more than 1 in 6/7/8 games? A good player will put that level of performance in probably 2 out of 3 games at least over the season.  Since before the Liverpool game Kenwyn has probably put in that performance 2/3 times. 

[Dinner Mints]

felaa yuh is ah clown or what/

southampton had a briliant midfield?

steups

so he is not the finished product wey I say he is?

moisten yuhself  yuh too f**king dry

I doubt you follow Southampton as closely as I do, this season or last. Southampton, last season, had one of the best midfields in the championship. They played very impressive football and played to Kenwyne's strengths. And still one of the biggest complaints about Kenwyne was his anticipation and running off the ball.

I'd look into whatever insecurities lead you to cuss anybody that challenges your opinion.

[andre samuel]

Excellent posts by Kev.............ah love it!!

Kev, i agree with you by saying that there is alot of biasness going on here.  We love Jones, and want the best for him because he is one of us. 

But i will admit to you being correct in almost every aspect of you posts.  Kenwyne is amazing in the air, and quite a handful when on the ball, but he has a really poor first touch and looks very scrapy when trying to show some "technique".   He does not have that predatory instinct to knock home loose balls like V.Rooy, or the ability to create space and finish like Torres. 

He has his own little strengths, but he has the potential to be extremely good once coached the right way.  I know that you have been saying this for some time but i want u to understand that this is what people on this site are getting carried away with............potential.

He scored some really nice goals with his head at the start of the season, but i must tell you that kenwynes last goal is a perfect example of how much work he has to do.

He received a ball in the box all my himself and miscontrolled it and had to make a wild swing to get it pass the keeper and from the looks of it, he didnt give the impression that he actually placed it at the keeper's near post!!  It looked as if it just happened to go there!!

But all in all, he will get better, and i know that one day he will be linked with the top four, and no one will question his ability to play with them.

Ps: Sunderland are a big club.  Their stadium is in the top five in England with a capacity of 49,000.  Only ManUtd, Newcastle and Arsenal have greater capacities.

ah love it!!


Everyone who sees Kenwyne play knows this already!! 

[kev]

Andre yeah I know what people are like a couple of weeks ago after winning 3 games in a row the smb was ful of we only need 2/3 players to be a top 8 / competing for europe spot.  Nothing could be further from the truth. 

I hope the lad does fulfil his potential and plays for a top 4 side  because the club will benefit one way or the other.

BTW the Arsenal game is sold out.

[Trini boi]

Kev (I didn't bother with the essay) but no bias here. If teams willing to pay $$ for him and he gets a chance to play for a team that actually contends.. then I say go for it.

You try to educate people and thats all the thanks you get

hey Kev, just to be the devil's advocate in this talk, but I could remember about a decade ago a man they called Yorke 

at least in KJs case, the media is hyping him up....in Yorkie's case, THEY WERE BLASTING HIM UPSIDE DOWN, and we all see who's laughing last now 

[Sam]

I say go Liverpool..... both Jones and Torres will cause real trouble...