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Offline royal

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$250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
« on: May 21, 2008, 08:25:28 PM »
$250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
By: Francis Joseph (Guardian).
[/size]

Sports Minister Gary Hunt claimed yesterday that the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) could rake in US$40 million (TT$250 million) or more from television rights for the T&T-England clash at the Hasely Crawford Stadium on June 1.

At a news conference called at the Ministry of Sport in Port-of-Spain, Hunt said a lot of fuss was being made about the cost of staging the event and the revenue which the TTFF would collect.

“We are not hearing about the media rights and sponsorship money,” he said.

Hunt said it was reported that $15 million would be spent to stage the international match, with some $8 million or $9 million coming in from gate receipts.

He said the advertising billboards inside the stadium would bring in another $2.8 million.

He also revealed that the TTFF had negotiated contracts with other sponsors which could bring the revenue collection near to the figure being bandied about to stage the match.

“The ministry has not been privy to any contracts relating to the stream of the TTFF,” Hunt said.

“It has been reported that the media rights for the game has been sold to the English FA. Who knows what the figure is for the television rights?

“More than 100 million people worldwide will be seeing this match. It could be US$40 million or more.”

Hunt’s press conference was called after he and officials of his ministry met with TTFF president Oliver Camps, special adviser to the federation, Jack Warner, and attorney Om Lalla.

When Warner emerged from the meeting, all he said to the Guardian was, “we are back to square one.”

A dispute erupted days ago over a new draft lease agreement which the ministry wants the TTFF to sign before the June 1 match.

Unlike previous years when the TTFF was charged a rental fee of $3,000 or ten per cent of the gate receipts, the new agreement increases that to a $150,000 rental fee or ten per cent of the gate receipts, whichever is greater.

The dispute has put the match in jeopardy, with the TTFF threatening to go to court next week if Hunt did not respond by 9 am tomorrow.

Asked if the match would be played on June 1, Hunte replied on five different occasions, “We would like to see the match played.”

He said lawyers representing the TTFF and the Ministry of Sport would meet tomorrow to resolve certain issues which would clear the way for the game to be played.

Asked whether politics was involved in this matter, Hunt replied: “I have no argument with Mr Warner...I have never ever said anything negative about Mr Warner in the media. There is no rift between the TTFF and the Government. We have always called for transparency and accountability. This has nothing to do with politics.”

Hunt said he was concerned that the country’s international image could be tarnished if the match was cancelled.

“The TTFF should be more concerned,” he said.

Hunt said a policy which governed the stadium was before Cabinet.

“The ministry recognises that this event is commercial in nature and as such, it is incumbent upon us to seek and protect the rights and intellectual property of Trinidad and Tobago,” he said.

“In the past, rental of the stadium has been done in an ad hoc manner. The policy seeks to standardise rental agreements and professionalise the way the ministry conducts business.”

Hunt announced that the ministry would charge the TTFF a rental of $150,000 for use of the stadium, instead of the ten per cent gate receipts which would have brought in $900,000.

He asked the TTFF to utilise the profits from this match to invest them into development programmes to assist people in areas such as Toco, Point Fortin, Tabaquite and Sangre Grande.

Hunt said his ministry was prepared to reconsider the terms of the draft lease agreement.

“We are now aware of contractual arrangements with the English FA...We are willing to listen to it,” he said.

“We are also willing to look at the prohibition of alcohol and tobacco advertising for this game. We recognise that it is not safe to advertise these products. We have taken a stance to protect the development of the youth of this country.”

Hunt insisted there must be a rental of the stadium.

He said the Government has a duty to protect its facilities.

On the issue of requesting 100 VIP tickets for the match, Hunt said there were many government officials including permanent secretaries.

This is in addition to a minister’s box which holds 24 seats.
TTFF: We have received no $$.
T&T Guardian Reports.
[/size]

The TTFF last night denied that it had received money for the television rights for the T&T-England clash on June 1 at the Hasely Crawford Stadium.

The TTFF indicated that the TV rights were given to the English FA for England and Europe as a condition precedent for them to play in Trinidad.

“To date, no one has contracted with the TTFF for the TV rights of the Caribbean or the Americas or even Trinidad,” the statement added.

President of the TTFF, Oliver Camps, and special adviser Jack Warner, along with attorney Om Lalla, met with Sports Minister Gary Hunt and officials in an effort to resolve the impasse.

The local federation hopes that Hunt, in his deliberations, would consider not only the 11th-hour new draft lease agreement, but the benefit the national community would derive from the match.

“It was also indicated (to the minister) that the unfortunate event is now in the international media and the world would wait anxiously to see what proposal the minister arrives on Friday. The future of the game and football nationally is now in the hands of the Honourable Minister of Sport,” the statement added.

The statement continued, “It is with great disappointment that the TTFF has been informed that the minister in his press conference misrepresented the terms and issues raised and discussed in the meeting, and accordingly has demonstrated his lack of bona fide in seeking a resolution of this matter. The TTFF will request its attorney to take the appropriate steps to ensure that its interest is protected in this matter.”

The TTFF indicated to the minister that the new draft lease agreement, forwarded mere days before the historic match, was unacceptable morally, and in commercial terms.
English FA gets TV rights.
T&T Express Reports.
[/size]

The Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) says it has given the English Football Association the television rights to the upcoming friendly international between Trinidad & Tobago and England, which is due to take place at the Hasely Crawford Stadium on June 1.

In a release issued yesterday by TTFF media officer, Shaun Fuentes, the federation said the "TV rights were given to the English FA for England and Europe as a condition precedent for them to play in Trinidad".

It added, "To date, no one has contracted with the TTFF for the TV rights of the Caribbean or the Americas or even Trinidad. Accordingly, no commercial revenue has been received to date by the TTFF for TV rights. "

The TTFF statement came following a meeting called by Sports Minister Gary Hunt yesterday to discuss the pending dispute surrounding the rental of the Hasely Crawford Stadium for the match. Attending the meeting on behalf of the TTFF was president Oliver Camps, special advisor Jack Warner and attorney Om Lalla. Representatives of the ministry and its legal advisor were also present.

The TTFF indicated that its problem was not that a lease was prepared, but rather that the only time it was made aware of a lease or any new proposed terms was mere days before the international game.

The TTFF also indicated that the terms of the agreement with commercial entities had no bearing on the terms of the rental of a stadium. The TTFF indicated that its hope was that the minister, in his deliberations, would consider not only his eleventh hour proposed lease, but the benefit the national community will derive from the game.

In the release, the TTFF delegation also expressed disappointment with information released at a later meeting between Hunt and the media.

"The TTFF has been informed that the minster, in his press conference, misrepresented the terms and issues raised and discussed in the meeting and, accordingly, has demonstrated his lack of bona fide in seeking a resolution of this matter. The TTFF will request its attorney to take the appropriate steps to insure that its interest is protected in this matter," the release said.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 04:16:01 AM by Flex »

truetrini

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Re: BIG money game
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2008, 09:08:10 PM »
Leh Warner haul he c**t!
I Standing with Gary Hunt!


That is what I putting on my Black Tee shirt!

Offline Deeks

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Re: BIG money game
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2008, 09:21:41 PM »
Truetrini,
               You is a real calypsonian. I like  your double-entendre.

Offline weary1969

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Re: BIG money game
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2008, 10:25:07 PM »
All of a sudden d Guardian in d mix Valentino Singh absent and writing d sequal 2 rom fzero 2 hero
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bakes

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Re: BIG money game
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2008, 10:30:32 PM »
So...after all of this Hunt ready to eat crow.  Lol...


10% out de window...we go settle fuh $150k instead.

Cigarette and alcohol billboards?  Put dem up man, make allyuh money...

Oho...yuh mean allyuh ent charge de FA nutten fuh de broadcast rights...allyuh give it tuh dem free of charge even doh dey was willing tuh pay de Devil tuh get Jack favor fuh hosting de 2018 Cup???  Dem desperate tuh make nice and allyuh still had tuh give away ah lucrative TV rights contract??  Well look ting...I never more wrong in mih life...Jack allyuh could have de stadium man, leh we put all dis behind we.  By de way...ah could get 30 tickets fuh mih friend and dem?  Nice.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: BIG money game
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 02:44:07 AM »
So...after all of this Hunt ready to eat crow.  Lol...


10% out de window...we go settle fuh $150k instead.

Cigarette and alcohol billboards?  Put dem up man, make allyuh money...

Oho...yuh mean allyuh ent charge de FA nutten fuh de broadcast rights...allyuh give it tuh dem free of charge even doh dey was willing tuh pay de Devil tuh get Jack favor fuh hosting de 2018 Cup???  Dem desperate tuh make nice and allyuh still had tuh give away ah lucrative TV rights contract??  Well look ting...I never more wrong in mih life...Jack allyuh could have de stadium man, leh we put all dis behind we.  By de way...ah could get 30 tickets fuh mih friend and dem?  Nice.
The most amazing thing about this whole matter is those who are claiming that it is the Government that is screwwing the Public...........Tizic in Trinidad
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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Offline dinho

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Is an uncorrupt Football Federation a realistic possibility?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2008, 08:52:32 AM »
i am just throwing this out for discussion..

we all know jack warner is ah blatant ole tief.

we all know he is an unsavoury character and there is no need to rehash the never ending examples of his shameful and corrupt ways.

But what i want to know is whether there is another federation on earth (or political organization for that matter) that operates devoid of the corruption that we so despise.

Do you guys think a football administration really function, stand and prosper without that element of corruption and conduct all their affairs above board? 

If you look at the way business is conducted in the football world, corruption has a prominent place. Look at the gift giving, borderline bribery and shady backroom deals that takes place around every World Cup bid. Look at the way clubs and agents conduct their affairs. Right here at home, look at the monetary benefits continuously given to us because of the votes we hold sway over. Even England's presence in Trinidad in less than a week reeks of corruption.

Alot of talk going around about the money the TTFF (and Jack by extension) stands to make off this game, and it seems like the prevailing sentiment is that the less money TTFF make the better. But money makes the world go round not so?  Thats why some people have no problem with Jack tiefing he portion once we get our historic, high profile game and some money into our coffers as a plus.

Ever the optimist, I personally think its entirely possible to have a legit and above board Federation and FPATT injects hope for this.

But what do you guys think?
         

Offline superoli

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Re: Is an uncorrupt Football Federation a realistic possibility?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2008, 09:00:13 AM »
Its not so much the corruption and tiefing its the level !

I dont think you can eliminate it totally but then the aim should be to minimise it as much as possible.

This is possible once the TTFF is run by people with integrity and Jackula goes to hell.


Imagine if a man like Shaka ran the TTFF I think we would be looking at a totally different organization.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 09:06:06 AM by superoli »
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Is an uncorrupt Football Federation a realistic possibility?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2008, 09:04:35 AM »
FIFA d parent organization corrupt no tail dat being said d TTFF teachin FIFA tanks 2 Jack how 2 b more crooked
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Re: Is an uncorrupt Football Federation a realistic possibility?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 09:17:52 AM »
D problem with our federation is that d man running it is a political figure who also is a big figure in fifa as well. So the behaviour is one where he feel he is above d game and everyone in it. He scoffs at callls for accountability and transparency. Trust me if our federation was one where we reallly did have to rely on full gov't funding, we would have fell in line with all the other sports federations who get money from the Sport company with clean accounting practices
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Re: Is an uncorrupt Football Federation a realistic possibility?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 09:31:25 AM »
Do you guys think a football administration really function, stand and prosper without that element of corruption and conduct all their affairs above board? 

If you look at the way business is conducted in the football world, corruption has a prominent place. Look at the gift giving, borderline bribery and shady backroom deals that takes place around every World Cup bid. Look at the way clubs and agents conduct their affairs. Right here at home, look at the monetary benefits continuously given to us because of the votes we hold sway over. Even England's presence in Trinidad in less than a week reeks of corruption.
Ever the optimist, I personally think its entirely possible to have a legit and above board Federation and FPATT injects hope for this.

But what do you guys think?
to answer your question...plain and simple.........Yes

When all those things you mention in your post STOP and the people who run Football worldwide change how they do bussiness then things will be ok.
With the call for Accountabilty and Transperancy we are moving in the right direction.
we have seen that courts have been able to investigate and prosecute FIFA for shady dealings.
But the old boys network thinking definitely has to stop.
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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Re: $250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 09:31:58 AM »
Trinidad & Tobago lose out on broadcast funds
sportbusiness.com


Thu, 22/05/2008 - 09:17

The Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) stand to make exactly zero broadcast revenue from next week’s friendly soccer match against England because of lack of interest from regional broadcasters.

The English FA acquired the television rights in the UK and Europe as a precondition of playing the match in Trinidad and Tobago. However, TTFF media officer, Shaun Fuentes, admitted, “To date, no one has contracted with the TTFF for the TV rights of the Caribbean or the Americas or even Trinidad. Accordingly, no commercial revenue has been received to date by the TTFF for TV rights.”

A spat this week between TTFF and the Trinidad and Tobago Ministry of Sports over the match’s proposed venue called into doubt whether the fixture would go ahead. The Sport Ministry had demanded that the TTFF pay a rental fee of $150,000 or 10 per cent of the gates for use of the venue.

The TTFF regarded the fee as exorbitant, and threatened to take legal action unless the Ministry reconsidered its position. Both sides are now in negotiations, and Sports Minister Gary Hunt has said that the match will go ahead. He said: “The Government has entered in talks with the TTFF with a position that we would like the game to go on.”

Offline dumpalewie

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Re: Is an uncorrupt Football Federation a realistic possibility?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2008, 09:43:33 AM »
i am just throwing this out for discussion..

we all know jack warner is ah blatant ole tief.

we all know he is an unsavoury character and there is no need to rehash the never ending examples of his shameful and corrupt ways.

But what i want to know is whether there is another federation on earth (or political organization for that matter) that operates devoid of the corruption that we so despise.

Do you guys think a football administration really function, stand and prosper without that element of corruption and conduct all their affairs above board? 

If you look at the way business is conducted in the football world, corruption has a prominent place. Look at the gift giving, borderline bribery and shady backroom deals that takes place around every World Cup bid. Look at the way clubs and agents conduct their affairs. Right here at home, look at the monetary benefits continuously given to us because of the votes we hold sway over. Even England's presence in Trinidad in less than a week reeks of corruption.

Alot of talk going around about the money the TTFF (and Jack by extension) stands to make off this game, and it seems like the prevailing sentiment is that the less money TTFF make the better. But money makes the world go round not so?  Thats why some people have no problem with Jack tiefing he portion once we get our historic, high profile game and some money into our coffers as a plus.

Ever the optimist, I personally think its entirely possible to have a legit and above board Federation and FPATT injects hope for this.

But what do you guys think?
This agrument is not really about money! The minister said that they would accept $150K instead of the $900K due to them. Jack is going to make money regardless.

It is about calling the TTFF to task. They forever talking about how the Gov doesn't want to fund the teams. Hunt says that they gave $100mil over the past 2 years without any accounting for where the money went. Jack says that KPMG did the auditing and it is readily available. However, when the minister offered to come pick up the reports himself on friday, Jack said don't bother yourself I won't be there.  :rotfl:

Simply put, show us where the money is going and we will gladly contribute. Because corruption is rampant everywhere doesn't mean that we should stand idly and be subservient victims.
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Offline Observer

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Re: Is an uncorrupt Football Federation a realistic possibility?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2008, 10:55:44 AM »
i am just throwing this out for discussion..

we all know jack warner is ah blatant ole tief.

we all know he is an unsavoury character and there is no need to rehash the never ending examples of his shameful and corrupt ways.

But what i want to know is whether there is another federation on earth (or political organization for that matter) that operates devoid of the corruption that we so despise.

Do you guys think a football administration really function, stand and prosper without that element of corruption and conduct all their affairs above board? 

If you look at the way business is conducted in the football world, corruption has a prominent place. Look at the gift giving, borderline bribery and shady backroom deals that takes place around every World Cup bid. Look at the way clubs and agents conduct their affairs. Right here at home, look at the monetary benefits continuously given to us because of the votes we hold sway over. Even England's presence in Trinidad in less than a week reeks of corruption.

Alot of talk going around about the money the TTFF (and Jack by extension) stands to make off this game, and it seems like the prevailing sentiment is that the less money TTFF make the better. But money makes the world go round not so?  Thats why some people have no problem with Jack tiefing he portion once we get our historic, high profile game and some money into our coffers as a plus.

Ever the optimist, I personally think its entirely possible to have a legit and above board Federation and FPATT injects hope for this.

But what do you guys think?
This agrument is not really about money! The minister said that they would accept $150K instead of the $900K due to them. Jack is going to make money regardless.

It is about calling the TTFF to task. They forever talking about how the Gov doesn't want to fund the teams. Hunt says that they gave $100mil over the past 2 years without any accounting for where the money went. Jack says that KPMG did the auditing and it is readily available. However, when the minister offered to come pick up the reports himself on friday, Jack said don't bother yourself I won't be there.  :rotfl:

Simply put, show us where the money is going and we will gladly contribute. Because corruption is rampant everywhere doesn't mean that we should stand idly and be subservient victims.


 :applause: :applause:  Hunt to Jack "you want the truth, you can't handle the truth."
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Offline Bourbon

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Re: $250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 11:24:48 AM »
Wait. The TTFF give broadcast rights to BBC for europe for NOTHING....and complaining that nobody wants to buy the rights locally? The majority of the revenue from broadcast rights woulda come from europe! Hear nah.....

Next ting.....Jack Saying that Boynes and the Sports Ministry paid the coaching staff up to december 2007. But...Wim suing for wages that he wasnt paid since august 2007? And den vex cuz the ministry say until relevant financial documents and accounting figures are submitted they eh getting no money? De amount of ting dat get me pissed in dat interview...Jack cussing bout how 2 weeks is too short a notice.....buh saying de minister doh come no events hosted by the TTFF...and the minister complaining that he get dem only a week before. If only yuh coulda call in.....STEUPS.....
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Re: $250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2008, 11:54:31 AM »
Wait. The TTFF give broadcast rights to BBC for europe for NOTHING....and complaining that nobody wants to buy the rights locally? The majority of the revenue from broadcast rights woulda come from europe! Hear nah.....

Next ting.....Jack Saying that Boynes and the Sports Ministry paid the coaching staff up to december 2007. But...Wim suing for wages that he wasnt paid since august 2007? And den vex cuz the ministry say until relevant financial documents and accounting figures are submitted they eh getting no money? De amount of ting dat get me pissed in dat interview...Jack cussing bout how 2 weeks is too short a notice.....buh saying de minister doh come no events hosted by the TTFF...and the minister complaining that he get dem only a week before. If only yuh coulda call in.....STEUPS.....

The facilitator was definitely more antagonistic towards Hunt... all she did was give Jack a platform to put forth more nonsensical justifications of the TTFF's agenda.

Offline Bourbon

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Re: $250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2008, 12:08:07 PM »
Wait. The TTFF give broadcast rights to BBC for europe for NOTHING....and complaining that nobody wants to buy the rights locally? The majority of the revenue from broadcast rights woulda come from europe! Hear nah.....

Next ting.....Jack Saying that Boynes and the Sports Ministry paid the coaching staff up to december 2007. But...Wim suing for wages that he wasnt paid since august 2007? And den vex cuz the ministry say until relevant financial documents and accounting figures are submitted they eh getting no money? De amount of ting dat get me pissed in dat interview...Jack cussing bout how 2 weeks is too short a notice.....buh saying de minister doh come no events hosted by the TTFF...and the minister complaining that he get dem only a week before. If only yuh coulda call in.....STEUPS.....

The facilitator was definitely more antagonistic towards Hunt... all she did was give Jack a platform to put forth more nonsensical justifications of the TTFF's agenda.

Yeah i saw the interview and i noticed that too. But my thing is why wasnt that questioned? How can you GIVE AWAY the Broadcast rights for nothing?
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Offline kentsoulman

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Re: $250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2008, 12:40:50 PM »
I think that you have to distinguish between corruption and incentives.

For instance, say England gave Jack £50,000 to vote to give them 2018 wc. That is corruption. But, say England give Jack a first class trip to the FA cup final and then agree to send some FA coaches over to T&T to hold seminars. That could still be termed a bribe, but I think, as long as it is disclosed, that its acceptable.

Lets face it. If you work your butt off to gain a position of power, why should you not get a treat?

I was talking to a BBC journalist today who is a friend of Rio Ferdinand. Rio has set up his own foundation in Africa and asked the journo if he would like to cover his visit there for the BBC. Good story, eh? A multi million pound footballer helping develop the game in Africa.

Even though Rio was paying for the journo's flights, the BBC are unhappy because Rio's foundation is a private enterprise and, as a public owned company, they don't want to be seen to promote Rio.

How crazy is that?

My point is that transparency and accountability are essential, but there must be some leeway. Gary Hunts crusade is long overdue, but he must be careful that it doesn't stifle creative networking.

 

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Re: $250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2008, 12:51:16 PM »
Yeah i saw the interview and i noticed that too. But my thing is why wasnt that questioned? How can you GIVE AWAY the Broadcast rights for nothing?

Please...you wasn't listening to the type of questions that woman was asking or what?  All she 'asked' were really questions that originated from one of the two participants.  For instance...

Jack:  To give us only two weeks notice is (I forget his actual word)

Shelly:  Yes Mr. Minister, why is it that you only gave them two weeks notice before such big match?


Hunt: We requested a meeting with the TTFF on April 8th and they declined to show up

Jack: That is not true, we asked his Press Secretary what the meeting was about and she never got back to us

Shelly: (To Hunt) Did you ever try and call Mr. Warner directly?



They might as well have had Shaun Fuentes be the facilitator.  I mean Jack brought up the issue of the KPMG audit, and Hunt says he never got a copy.  Jack with mock incredulity says "of course you never got a copy, I'm not surprised...I will see that you get a copy".  Hunt offers to personally visit Jack's office to pick up a copy...Jack says he won't be there "don't waste your time".  I think he then said go to the TTFF.

Wouldn't that have been a great time for any journalist interested in the truth to confirm that should Hunt go down to Dundonald St. that Jack would personally guarantee that a copy of the elusive audits would be waiting for him as requested?  Wouldn't it have been a good time to query why they weren't delivered when requested two months ago?


Anyways, I don't want to make this about her...she knows why the discussion went the way it did.

Jack expects us to believe that he just forked over the lucrative rights just so...somewhat incredulous when you consider just how desperate the FA is to appease Jack in hopes of gaining his vote for the 2018 Cup.  When it comes to bargaining power it is obvious he has the advantage....whey then would he have to give up the broadcast rights as a condition of the Three Lions coming to TnT?  Speculation on my part that what he says is not true...but logically it just doesn't make sense.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 01:00:31 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline Bakes

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Re: $250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2008, 12:53:46 PM »
My point is that transparency and accountability are essential, but there must be some leeway. Gary Hunts crusade is long overdue, but he must be careful that it doesn't stifle creative networking.

 

Kent...please try to stay on issue.  There is no analogous situation here even remotely akin to the Rio Ferdinand Foundation.  There is no creative networking in jeopardy here, unless you're talking about how Jack creatively networks the padding of his bank account.

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Re: $250m to TTFF from TV rights—Hunt.
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2008, 01:14:14 PM »
Mods.

enlighten meh..

what does TV rights have to do with a new topic about the workability of an uncorrupt federation?

or allyuh trying to hide dat one?
         

 

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