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Author Topic: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football  (Read 9284 times)

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Offline Deeks

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2008, 09:02:57 PM »
Bakes,
             I agree with you about all the disparaging remarks about this centennial game. But the special advisor made this game a political football. From his early staements that England was not important anymore... etc. It was inevitable.

 I wish we can play some more games like this. Pacho should use his South American connections so that we can  play Colombia, Chile, Ven, Para, Arg and even Brazil. Scoreline don't matter. We need tough competition.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2008, 09:11:20 PM »

e-man please provide a link so that I could write Lawrence Donegan and tell him exactly where he can stick his article.

I just noticed this Donegan fellow is the blasted golf reporter - why did they have him write that. Anyway you can comment here
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/06/05/why_the_fa_had_to_swallow_its.html


Thanks...about to comment  :beermug:

Offline Bakes

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2008, 12:46:50 PM »
 :rotfl: :rotfl:

Seems like I've jump-started a nice little back and forth on that blog.


Thanks again for that link e-man.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2008, 12:42:08 PM »
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 12:46:19 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline Giggsy's Chestwig

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2008, 04:18:31 PM »
I think a World Cup held in England is long overdue.

The last time they hosted it was in '66. Their main rivals for 2018 is the USA who are not a traditional football nation and have already hosted it as recently as 1994.

England hosted a trouble free Euro 96 and are even better equipped now to host a major tournament with most of their top flight stadiums being state of the art.


Offline Bakes

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2008, 05:51:45 PM »
I think a World Cup held in England is long overdue.

The last time they hosted it was in '66. Their main rivals for 2018 is the USA who are not a traditional football nation and have already hosted it as recently as 1994.

England hosted a trouble free Euro 96 and are even better equipped now to host a major tournament with most of their top flight stadiums being state of the art.



I fail to see what that has to do with their ability to host a WC (which they've already done successfully).  Many will argue that Trinidad is not a "tradtional football nation"...whatever that means.

Offline Giggsy's Chestwig

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2008, 06:33:35 PM »
I think a World Cup held in England is long overdue.

The last time they hosted it was in '66. Their main rivals for 2018 is the USA who are not a traditional football nation and have already hosted it as recently as 1994.

England hosted a trouble free Euro 96 and are even better equipped now to host a major tournament with most of their top flight stadiums being state of the art.



I fail to see what that has to do with their ability to host a WC (which they've already done successfully).  Many will argue that Trinidad is not a "tradtional football nation"...whatever that means.

Well, for one thing why host the tournament in a country that doesn't care much for the game in general? In '94 many Americans didn't even know that a World Cup was being held there and it was given minimal media coverage. It was nothing more than a PR exercise and cash grabbing exercise by FIFA. Sure they have the MLS now but the quality of football is still light years behind Europe and is fourth or fifth in the pecking order of national sports in the States. This is why I applauded the choice to host the next one in Africa, as it will be their first World Cup and they genuinely appreciate the game. Unlike the US.

Yes, the USA hosted it successfully but must they do so again in such a short space of time? If USA win the 2018 vote, they will have hosted it twice in the last 24 years. Thats pretty good going for a country whose media to football as a 'girls sport'. Compare that to England who haven't hosted it since '66, despite that the fact that they have a large number of state of the art stadiums (Wembley, Old Trafford. St James Park, Eastlands, The Emirates, Pride Park, The Riverside, The Reebok Stadium etc. etc.) and facilities plus the fact that they hosted Euro 96 pretty well without incident.

I don't see why the USA should get the nod again in 2018 because they have better marketing skills and money to throw at FIFA. I thought the idea of hosting the World Cup was supposed to add some variety and give everyone around the world the opportunity to experience it first hand. It reeks of political tennis.

 


Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2008, 12:43:06 PM »
This article accompanies the caricature of JW with the England flag above ... gehhin a negative big up in the Argentina press.

Talk bout a global bad rep. De man call him a Caribbean pirate ...  second line.

El partido de la década [Match of the decade: TT v England]

    El partido durará una década. Sus principales jugadores serán jeques árabes, lores ingleses, oligarcas rusos y piratas caribeños. Aunque pocos lo sepan, comenzó a jugarse este último domingo. Y lo hizo como sólo el mundo del fútbol se lo puede permitir: con la millonaria y poderosa Inglaterra arrodillada ante un hombre de Trinidad y Tobago que de niño soñaba con ser policía y se ganaba la vida como docente. Se trata de Jack Warner, hoy el dirigente FIFA con mayores cargos de corrupción de la última década, pero clave para la votación por la sede del Mundial 2018.     

     Argentina no jugará este partido, pese a que en 2018 cumplirá cuarenta años de su primera Copa Mundial, la de 1978, cuyo recuerdo, en realidad, aún contiene tal vez más dolor que alegría, como lo reflejan las dificultades para celebrar el trigésimo aniversario que se avecina. Argentina, en rigor, jamás podrá soñar con la sede de 2018, porque el Mundial previo, de 2014, será en Brasil. Si bien abandonó su proyecto de rotar por continente la sede de los Mundiales, la FIFA nunca asignará a Sudamérica dos torneos seguidos. Por eso, en su reciente Congreso de Sydney, la puja por la sede de 2018 quedó liderada por Europa, con Inglaterra a la cabeza, seguida de Rusia, España y una eventual candidatura conjunta Holanda-Bélgica. Asia pujará con Australia (futbolísticamente en ese continente), China y Qatar. Y Concacaf lo hará con Estados Unidos.

     Inglaterra, dueña de la Liga más poderosa y millonaria del momento, movió la pelota este domingo. Lo hizo jugando el partido más político de toda su historia. Envió a su selección a Puerto España, a la tierra de Warner. Y lo hizo sólo porque Warner, en una hipotética segunda ronda de votaciones, podrá abandonar su lealtad regional con Estados Unidos y darle a Inglaterra 3 de los 24 votos del Comité Ejecutivo de la FIFA que decidirá la sede en marzo de 2011. Menos de un año atrás, Warner habìa afirmado a la BBC que él se encargaría personalmente de "combatir" una eventual sede inglesa del Mundial 2018. Este fin de semana, tras recibir la visita de la selección inglesa en Puerto España, afirmó que Inglaterra es la mejor candidata. A Inglaterra no le importó siquiera que a la selección de Trinidad y Tobago (a la que ya vencía 2-0 a los 16 minutos) le faltaran muchas de sus estrellas del Mundial 2006, marginadas por haberle exigido a Warner que no se quedara con el dinero que era de ellos, algo a lo que está acostumbrado el protegido de Joseph Blatter en la FIFA.

    A Warner no le importó que Lord David Triesman, un ex comunista que fue secretario general del laborismo y ahora es presidente de la Federación inglesa (FA) decidiera quedarse en Londres, acaso para evitar estrecharle la mano. "Espero por Dios que eso no sea verdad", dijo Warner. Se burló de Triesman ("nadie sabe quién es él. No se puede ganar una sede sin salir de Londres, por más Lord o Lady que uno sea"). Y advirtió a Inglaterra qué debe hacer si quiere el Mundial 2018: "ustedes necesitan a un verdadero embajador de su país. Y David Beckham puede ejercer ese rol como nadie. La gente lo ama. Es como Pelé". Fue todo tan grosero el domingo en Puerto España que Beckham volvió a ser capitán de Inglaterra por primera vez después del Mundial alemán. "No lo hice por relaciones públicas. El se lo merecía", debió aclarar el DT italiano Fabio Capello. Inglaterra, según parece, comenzó a acatar al pie de la letra las indicaciones de Peter Hargitay, su nuevo "asesor estratégico". Hargitay fue asesor de Blatter y trabajó en empresas de seguridad que detectan cuentas secretas, pagos de sobornos y hacen campañas de prensa, como la que debió realizar para la Union Carbide, luego del escape de gas tóxico que en 1985 mató a miles de personas en Bhopal, India.   

   Triesman, el hombre despreciado por Warner, se reunió hace veinte días en Moscú con Alexander Mutko, ministro de Deportes de Rusia. Según parece, le pidió el apoyo para 2018. A cambio, Inglaterra apoyaría a Rusia como sede de la Eurocopa 2016. Ocurre que Rusia anuncia que en cinco años tendrá a diez de los mejores estadios del mundo. Que su fútbol, que hace cuatro años estaba décimoquinto en el ranking europeo, pronto sacará a Holanda del quinto lugar. Que CSKA en 2005 y Zenit en 2008 fueron campeones de la Copa UEFA y el próximo objetivo será la Liga de Campeones. Que jugadores como Andrei Arshavin, de Zenit, ganan más de cien mil dólares por semana, mejor que en la Premier League. Que la ciudad de Sochi ya ganó la sede de los Juegos Olímpicos de Invierno de 2014. Y que Vladimir Putin quiere restablecer orgullo a través del fútbol y por ello obligó a los oligarcas a invertir sus fortunas, como debió hacerlo Roman Abramovich, el famoso patrón del Chelsea, que financia a la selección y a la formación de talentos.   


Rusia, dicen algunos especialistas, podría ofrecer además a la FIFA un jugoso mercado negro que permitirá mayores ganancias. ¿Será Rusia la candidata europea elegida por Blatter para humillar al nuevo y desafiante poderío del fútbol inglés?

     Australia ratificó hace unas horas su deseo de sumarse a la puja. Lo hizo aún luego de que Blatter adelantó que será imposible darle al Hemisferio Sur un tercer Mundial seguido luego de Sudáfrica 2010 y Brasil 2014.  Pero Blatter anunció también que en marzo de 2011 la FIFA decidirá no sólo la sede de 2018, sino también la de 2022. Y allí apuntaría entonces Australia. También lo harán China y Qatar. Así lo adelantó al menos el qatarí Bin Hamman, presidente de la Confederación Asiática. Bin Hamman, igual que Warner, otro hombre clave dentro de la FIFA, fue señalado por el periodista británico Andrew Jennings, como el "cerebro" de la repartija de sobres con 100.000 dólares en el hotel Meridien, de París, que permitió que 18 votos africanos abandonaran a última hora al sueco Lennart Johansson y permitieran a Joseph Blatter asumir en 1998 como nuevo presidente de la FIFA, en lugar de Joao Havelange.


 Otros votos africanos, en cambio, eligieron a Blatter porque éste había prometido a Sudáfrica la sede del Mundial 2006. Pero esa sede, se sabe, fue finalmente para Alemania, que ganó 12-11 la votación a Sudáfrica porque, también a última hora, el octogenario neocelandés Charles Dempsey protagonizó una inesperada "abstención". Blatter sí cumplió con Sudáfrica en 2010, aunque está cada vez más preocupado, por la marcha lenta de las obras y también por los últimos episodios de violencia racial justamente en el país que sufrió el racismo como ningún otro.

     Cuentan que Blatter está arrepentido de haberle asignado tan fácilmente el Mundial 2014 a Brasil. Y que por eso asiste feliz ahora a la puja que ya comenzó por 2018 y por 2022. Todos tendrán que volver a arrodillarse ante él, como ya debió hacerlo Inglaterra ante su delfín Warner. Acaso ambiciona repetir la puja por la sede olímpica de 2012, que fue obtenida por Londres gracias a una intervención decisiva de Tony Blair, que ganó sus duelos a Jacques Chirac (fue por París) y a José Rodríguez Zapatero (por Madrid), por no hablar de Hillary Clinton, Henry Kissinger y la reina Sofía, también presentes en aquella votación de Singapur. Los Juegos Olímpicos y los Mundiales de fútbol son vidrieras inigualables en el mundo globalizado. Sólo un país renunció a una Copa de la FIFA. Colombia al Mundial de 1986.  "No hay tiempo para atender las extravagancias de la FIFA y sus socios. El Mundial -dijo el entonces presidente colombiano Belisario Betancur- debía servir a Colombia y no Colombia a la multinacional del Mundial"
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 12:44:55 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline Bakes

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2008, 08:00:50 PM »
I think a World Cup held in England is long overdue.

The last time they hosted it was in '66. Their main rivals for 2018 is the USA who are not a traditional football nation and have already hosted it as recently as 1994.

England hosted a trouble free Euro 96 and are even better equipped now to host a major tournament with most of their top flight stadiums being state of the art.



I fail to see what that has to do with their ability to host a WC (which they've already done successfully).  Many will argue that Trinidad is not a "tradtional football nation"...whatever that means.

Well, for one thing why host the tournament in a country that doesn't care much for the game in general? In '94 many Americans didn't even know that a World Cup was being held there and it was given minimal media coverage. It was nothing more than a PR exercise and cash grabbing exercise by FIFA. Sure they have the MLS now but the quality of football is still light years behind Europe and is fourth or fifth in the pecking order of national sports in the States. This is why I applauded the choice to host the next one in Africa, as it will be their first World Cup and they genuinely appreciate the game. Unlike the US.

Yes, the USA hosted it successfully but must they do so again in such a short space of time? If USA win the 2018 vote, they will have hosted it twice in the last 24 years. Thats pretty good going for a country whose media to football as a 'girls sport'. Compare that to England who haven't hosted it since '66, despite that the fact that they have a large number of state of the art stadiums (Wembley, Old Trafford. St James Park, Eastlands, The Emirates, Pride Park, The Riverside, The Reebok Stadium etc. etc.) and facilities plus the fact that they hosted Euro 96 pretty well without incident.

I don't see why the USA should get the nod again in 2018 because they have better marketing skills and money to throw at FIFA. I thought the idea of hosting the World Cup was supposed to add some variety and give everyone around the world the opportunity to experience it first hand. It reeks of political tennis.

 



The US media considers football a "girls sport", really?  What's your basis for saying this... on or two oddball comments by the likes of Jim Rome and the hacks on Around The Horn...the latter of whom clearly incorporate irreverence into their schtick?  Come on man, you can't be serious.  Also I don't know where you were when the tournament was held in 1994 (assuming you were in the US, where in the US), but I can tell you that there was widespread coverage by the mainstream US media of the World Cup.  All the games were broadcast live where possible and the scores were given preeminent coverage in the print media in many markets. 

If your argument is that the US should wait before they host it again then fine.  To posit that they shouldn't host it because some in the media don't take the sport seriously...or because the average American isn't as passionate about it as others is just nonsense.  There are many other great pro-US reasons that can be offered in response to that half-argument.

Offline Giggsy's Chestwig

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2008, 07:32:55 AM »
Quote
There are many other great pro-US reasons that can be offered in response to that half-argument.

There are and FIFA have heard it.

Money and marketing.

But feel free to list some more.


Offline superoli

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2008, 07:46:43 AM »
b&S you put in the blg

" ..there's a good chance that Lampard would not have scored and it would be the English who would be travelling to Trinidad with 'A Score to Settle'.

It wasnt lampard it was Gerrad.

Superoli for President of TTFF
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A professional organization for professional players

Offline Bakes

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2008, 07:56:35 AM »
Quote
There are many other great pro-US reasons that can be offered in response to that half-argument.

There are and FIFA have heard it.

Money and marketing.

But feel free to list some more.



Existing WC quality stadia

Stadia readily accessible by affordable mass transportation

Existing internal logistics to not just move people (above) but to accommodate them as well, and do so affordably.

The fact that the US is situated 5-8 hours of GMT also helps, most of the footballing world can appreciate the games at a reasonable hour relative to other hosts.

It can be argued that Europe getting every other World Cup going back the past 26 yrs is plenty...


-----------------------

Oli, yeah yuh right...unfortunately after I realized it there wasn't anyway for me to go back and change it  :beermug:

Offline E-man

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2008, 06:27:15 PM »
UK plans on visa restrictions against T&T, but because they want Jack's help the country might get a pass.....

Visa curbs ultimatum awaits 11 countries

Quote
Richard Caborn, the sports minister, said South Africa and Trinidad & Tobago were supporting England's World Cup bid.

"We have to ensure there is good justification for doing this. This could be highly detrimental . . . I hope the government will not rush into it," he said.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Trinidad trip the ultimate in political football
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2008, 07:21:32 PM »
So visa 2 go 2 d UK steupssssssssss
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

 

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