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Offline E-man

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Three nations united in international failure
« on: June 05, 2008, 11:25:35 AM »
Three nations united in international failure
By: Shaka Hislop (UK Guardian)


What disappointing performances from England, Trinidad and Tobago, and the United States tells us about the domestic leagues

June 5, 2008 4:56 PM

I'm writing this in a state of embarrassment and bewilderment after watching Trinidad and Tobago go down listlessly to a decidedly average England team. I expect many of you American readers were feeling much the same emotions when England overcame the United States at Wembley last week.

All three nations and their fans continue to search for reasons for our collective poor performances on the international stage. We Trinbagonians will always rely on the fact that we're a small country. The English have long claimed that not enough of their young players are getting the chance to play at the highest level as more and more international stars arrive at their shores. The same might be said about Major League Soccer in the US.

As one blogger pointed out, the original idea behind MLS was to give home-grown talent the opportunities and experience needed to benefit the US national team, but the motives within the league now appear to have changed. Professional clubs are far more concerned with their own fortunes over those of the national team. They are all in a results business. But at the same time the few who do make the grade should benefit from playing alongside and against better players, which I am sure they do. So why the seeming lack of progress on the international stage?

In England the pace is frenetic, and the players have consistently struggled to keep the ball for the long periods required to win vital games at international level. But the game in MLS is slower so should be of greater benefit to local talent. But we all know it hasn't seemed to.

As I watched the Colorado Rapids reclaim top spot in the Western Conference with a 2-1 home win over FC Dallas, another game littered with poor defending, I couldn't help but think how mono-paced the game was, from back to front, from beginning to end. This doesn't help players with real international aspirations, like Dallas's Kenny Cooper, who has been on the outskirts of the national team in recent months.

Given the US's lack of firepower at Wembley, Cooper is probably feeling pretty good about his chances next time around - as should Jozy Altidore, who remains one of the brightest prospects in American soccer.

He is still a little raw, but is a real talent and has missed the experience of Juan Pablo Angel alongside him at times this season, as Angel has struggled with injuries. This week Angel was ill, and the Red Bulls again struggled, going down 1-0 in Houston.

Earlier in the week another upcoming star, the midfielder Corey Ashe, inspired Houston to a 2-2 draw against Dallas, meaning Houston now trail Colorado by one point in the West.

Meanwhile, DC United again narrowly avoided the "one embarrassment" I spoke of last week - the kind that would cost them their coach - but still managed to throw away a two-goal lead to draw at home to New England.

All other eyes were on the teams from California. An under-strength LA Galaxy visited Toronto, where there was good news for Canadian supporters and Trinbagonians alike. Julius James, Toronto's No 1 draft pick, came on for the injured Olivier Tebily in the 18th minute, and scored 30 minutes into his MLS debut. Toronto won 2-0.

The other Los Angeles team, Chivas USA, were on the right side of the same score-line, beating Columbus Crew 2-0. The top finishers in the West last season have been forgotten in Los Angeles so far this year as the much-hyped Galaxy found form. But Chivas have enjoyed flying under the radar and have now also found their stride.

The result means Columbus Crew drop to third in the East, but remain only one point off the pace.

Real Salt Lake were happy to see the other Californian team arrive in Utah. San Jose are the only team below Real in the Western conference and duly surrendered 3-1 at the Rice-Eccles Stadium, ending Real's three-game losing streak.

So as we focus on what is good or not so good about MLS, and as we try to figure out why the US failed to deliver against a below average European team, and what the league can and should do about it, remember the World Cup qualifiers start in two weeks.

The US will play Barbados on their first step to South Africa, a journey I fully expect them to complete from a weak Concacaf group.

In the meantime, roll on next week's MLS games!

Offline weary1969

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 11:01:22 PM »
It always nice 2 read what d prez have 2 say
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bakes

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 12:34:39 AM »
Very disappointing analysis by Shaka.

1. He should know better than to feed into this collective angst over this Soca Warriors team performance last Sunday.

2. As for MLS... if MLS is to be the feeder for the national program then why bother sell the likes of Michael Bradley and Jozy Altidore overseas?  MLS is a business enterprise not some propaganda machine that is suppose to develop national players.  That would be a welcomed by-product but the goal is to put forth quality on the field.  By putting a quality product on the field the American players who are in the league can benefit from the collective elevated play.  There is nothing at all lamentable about the tepid infusion of foreign talent in the league...if anything more foreign players should be brought in.. and by 'foreign' we don't mean fading European stars (nothing against Becks) or cheap Latin starlets.

Offline superoli

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 02:03:06 AM »
great analysis by Shaka
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Offline Sam

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 04:29:08 AM »
No offence, but I does talk meh mind. Never liked Shaka as a keeper and I do not like him as an analysis reporter either. Hope he improve on ESPN, seems ESPN just keeping him their to make it look good for the Black viewers. And Shaka is big with racistsum in the UK... but as a Trini, I will support him 100% and I hope he imporve on his analysis.

Whats the latest stuff Shaka is doing for FPATT ? just curious...
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Offline freakazoid

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2008, 05:09:08 AM »
or maybe espn keeping shaka there because he played in arguably the best league in the world, with some good sides, 4 a significant period and is a well educated individual.

who really cares if the presenters or analyst black or white ???
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Offline Coop's

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2008, 08:06:52 AM »
It always nice 2 read what d prez have 2 say
        But the Prez eh say nothing,if this article was about our Pro league teams and players it would of worth reading,all it said about T&T is that the game against England was disappointing which the whole country knows.
         This is where the disconnect comes in and then we say the public is not educated,we talking a set of garbage about other peoples team and players and nobody talks about ours,what we want the public to know,with the experience and knowledge that Shaka has it should be used in a more positive way but he is putting himself in a position where T&T will not be able to benefit from this great son of our soil.
        I would like to hear from Shaka his views on T&T Football,i'm not talking about the legal issues we know all about that,i'm talking about the game itself,what could be done to move the game in the country,make people want to follow Football again,improve our players,improve our leagues,improve our national teams,what system will best suit our country,a system/process for selecting national team players.
         We suppose to be looking for answers from Shaka not questions,it's easy to find faults anybody can do that but is solving these problems nobody wants to do,don't get me wrong i like Shaka and the work he is doing with FPATT but what else for T&T Football.
         Since i'm here i'm moving around a lot to gather first hand knowledge of what's going on,i've meet with or talked on the phone with most people involved here, i was even turned away at the Centre of Excellence because i had on a short pants i guess times have changed,but i had a meeting with the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Sport,i just want to understand why things are the way it is.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2008, 08:54:02 AM »
Coops u really away long tings are d way it is because Trinis are d way dey are. Did u not read dat peeps met sancho shake he hand and ask him if he was playin on sun. The average Trini eh have a clue bout what happening.

If he did lamblast d Pro League that would been another story plus raise yuh hand if u feel d Guardian readers intrested in d Pro League. D futbol world we have 40 professional footballers d Don just say so. dat being said what impact we league go have.

Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline superoli

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 09:00:49 AM »
this article was written for the UK guardian they have little or no interest in our pro league
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Offline E-man

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 09:03:59 AM »
this article was written for the UK guardian they have little or no interest in our pro league

Shaka is the MLS columist for the Guardian - his focus is MLS anyway

Offline weary1969

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 09:10:28 AM »
Unless he writin 4 d Pro League Magazine he focus will not b on d Pro League. How much coverage we dailiys does give d Pro League but all yuh want Shaka 2 comment on it. We only get a dishonourable mention because of last wk fete match. D bulk of d article was on d MLS
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bakes

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 11:04:24 AM »
this article was written for the UK guardian they have little or no interest in our pro league

Shaka is the MLS columist for the Guardian - his focus is MLS anyway


Yeah, the scope of his column and the target audience are both MLS- related...which is why the bulk of my response was limited to his MLS commentary.

Still disagree with his assessment of Sunday's game though (in the grand scheme of things).

Offline Coop's

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2008, 11:52:20 AM »
Coops u really away long tings are d way it is because Trinis are d way dey are. Did u not read dat peeps met sancho shake he hand and ask him if he was playin on sun. The average Trini eh have a clue bout what happening.

If he did lamblast d Pro League that would been another story plus raise yuh hand if u feel d Guardian readers intrested in d Pro League. D futbol world we have 40 professional footballers d Don just say so. dat being said what impact we league go have.


     Weary but if you were to ask any Trini about the EPL,La Liga,MLS etc etc they can tell you about every team/player,why they don't know about our leagues which are smaller and players,that should tell us something,we only promote what's foreign,watch sports on TV or read our Newspapers is all foreign so how people want the country to know what's going on,people follow Jack because that's all the Football news we get.
    We don't want anybody to lamblast our Football,what we want is people who can give us advice on how to improve it,i think with the knowledge and experience Shaka has he can be a big help to us,the same way all these Football outlets using him.
    If the response to Football on Sunday is an indication that Trini's are clueless about Football in the country i would not like to see the day when they become knowledgeable about what's going on,what i'm trying to say is our people just love they Football,right or wrong,up or down,happy or sad they going to their Football,no kind of protest or bacchanal going to stop them,they are just addicted to the game,the organizers just have to work harder at producing a better product,one thing that's common in my meetings with different personal is that there is too much pulling and tugging going on,our Football has always been that way,may be some of us now following Football.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2008, 12:19:55 PM »
     Weary but if you were to ask any Trini about the EPL,La Liga,MLS etc etc they can tell you about every team/player,why they don't know about our leagues which are smaller and players,that should tell us something,we only promote what's foreign,watch sports on TV or read our Newspapers is all foreign so how people want the country to know what's going on,people follow Jack because that's all the Football news we get.
    We don't want anybody to lamblast our Football,what we want is people who can give us advice on how to improve it,i think with the knowledge and experience Shaka has he can be a big help to us,the same way all these Football outlets using him.
    If the response to Football on Sunday is an indication that Trini's are clueless about Football in the country i would not like to see the day when they become knowledgeable about what's going on,what i'm trying to say is our people just love they Football,right or wrong,up or down,happy or sad they going to their Football,no kind of protest or bacchanal going to stop them,they are just addicted to the game,the organizers just have to work harder at producing a better product,one thing that's common in my meetings with different personal is that there is too much pulling and tugging going on,our Football has always been that way,may be some of us now following Football.

Coop's you seem to be putting the blame on Shaka for not "offering" his services to these outlets in TnT though.  I think a better question is why none of these local outlets ent try to hire him as a guest commentator/columnist or something.  Maybe they tried but ESPN and the Guardian made their offers first that Shaka was already committed.  At the end of the day this is not a service he providing, the man have to put bread on he table.  If tomorrow the Richmond Times call you up and ask you to provide commentary on the MLS or USL, you think you go say "nah, ah waiting tuh hear from de Express and de Guardian first"?

Offline Coop's

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2008, 01:26:09 PM »
     Weary but if you were to ask any Trini about the EPL,La Liga,MLS etc etc they can tell you about every team/player,why they don't know about our leagues which are smaller and players,that should tell us something,we only promote what's foreign,watch sports on TV or read our Newspapers is all foreign so how people want the country to know what's going on,people follow Jack because that's all the Football news we get.
    We don't want anybody to lamblast our Football,what we want is people who can give us advice on how to improve it,i think with the knowledge and experience Shaka has he can be a big help to us,the same way all these Football outlets using him.
    If the response to Football on Sunday is an indication that Trini's are clueless about Football in the country i would not like to see the day when they become knowledgeable about what's going on,what i'm trying to say is our people just love they Football,right or wrong,up or down,happy or sad they going to their Football,no kind of protest or bacchanal going to stop them,they are just addicted to the game,the organizers just have to work harder at producing a better product,one thing that's common in my meetings with different personal is that there is too much pulling and tugging going on,our Football has always been that way,may be some of us now following Football.

Coop's you seem to be putting the blame on Shaka for not "offering" his services to these outlets in TnT though.  I think a better question is why none of these local outlets ent try to hire him as a guest commentator/columnist or something.  Maybe they tried but ESPN and the Guardian made their offers first that Shaka was already committed.  At the end of the day this is not a service he providing, the man have to put bread on he table.  If tomorrow the Richmond Times call you up and ask you to provide commentary on the MLS or USL, you think you go say "nah, ah waiting tuh hear from de Express and de Guardian first"?
      May be i am to a certain extent and i understand where you are coming from which is quite understandable,may be too prestige played a part,i was talking with Ken Butcher this morning, i think he is in charge of the Sports Company here in T&T,what they are doing is hiring Foreign Coaches in the various sports and having local Coaches work along side them just like Football does with Anton,not a bad idea because as he said it's international sports we dealing with,we have several teams preparing for tournaments all over the place.

    My thing is why are we not making use of the best we have,we will not give a local the salary a foreigner will get but that same person will go abroad and get more than he is paid at home and that's the main reason.Lincoln used to work with the US national team, run their Coaches courses and developmental programs,the same programs that have the US where they are today but because he is local no one respects the man,but your points are valid and at the day a man has to do what's best for himself.

   What i'll still say though is as a analyst if every now and then he can say something positive about our Football it will help because i think people respect and admire him a lot in the country.

   

Offline Bakes

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2008, 01:51:38 PM »

      May be i am to a certain extent and i understand where you are coming from which is quite understandable,may be too prestige played a part,i was talking with Ken Butcher this morning, i think he is in charge of the Sports Company here in T&T,what they are doing is hiring Foreign Coaches in the various sports and having local Coaches work along side them just like Football does with Anton,not a bad idea because as he said it's international sports we dealing with,we have several teams preparing for tournaments all over the place.

    My thing is why are we not making use of the best we have,we will not give a local the salary a foreigner will get but that same person will go abroad and get more than he is paid at home and that's the main reason.Lincoln used to work with the US national team, run their Coaches courses and developmental programs,the same programs that have the US where they are today but because he is local no one respects the man,but your points are valid and at the day a man has to do what's best for himself.

   What i'll still say though is as a analyst if every now and then he can say something positive about our Football it will help because i think people respect and admire him a lot in the country.

   


I agree with you that more locals should be given opportunities...you have to walk before you can run though and my guess is that many are simply inexperienced, and that by serving alongside their foreign counterparts it serves as a kind of apprenticeship, where eventually they can become the #1.  At the same time I also agree that many of us are too beholden to foreign expertise, often to the detriment of locals who may be just as qualified, if not better.

As for Shaka...he seems to be one that speaks his mind honestly when it comes to football...and so maybe he doesn't see much positive to address in the local game.  At the same time though I don't think he's been unusuallly or unfairly critical either.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2008, 04:04:03 PM »
Trinis always rather foreign than local. AsTouches say is entertainment d EPL is entertainment while d PFL IS NOT. Mankind and womankind buzy and after a hard week u just doh get d zeal 2 leave yuh house 2 go dem games. I could get season pass and doh take it
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Babalawo

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2008, 04:20:23 PM »
Shaka reall keeping he self busy.  He should also scout some goalies with trini backgrounds because we need a goal keeper bad

Offline weary1969

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2008, 04:23:06 PM »
Couple ok nuff defenders as well
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline bajanscout

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2008, 05:16:51 PM »
if shaka was playing we would lose by more goals , cause gerrad woulda waste he with bullet like d FA finals ,and he talking bout bad performance he had 1 good performance for trinidad so he feeling good now,padna remember d bullet from 40 yds from usa in d v , remember d 5 from guatemala , i could go on and on shaka shitlop ,so dont down dem although i downing dem..is only i could do dat........
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Three nations united in international failure
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2008, 05:56:43 PM »
if shaka was playing we would lose by more goals , cause gerrad woulda waste he with bullet like d FA finals ,and he talking bout bad performance he had 1 good performance for trinidad so he feeling good now,padna remember d bullet from 40 yds from usa in d v , remember d 5 from guatemala , i could go on and on shaka shitlop ,so dont down dem although i downing dem..is only i could do dat........

If Shaka was playing he'd tell you to shut the f**k up already.

 

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