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Author Topic: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)  (Read 4668 times)

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Offline superoli

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Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« on: June 18, 2008, 03:23:35 PM »
As posted by Kentsoulman before it get mash up !

Theres so much information and conjecture on these pages sometimes, it can be difficult to see a clear picture of whats happening. Part of the reason for this is Warners superb handling of the media.

Everytime over the last month that Jack has taken a serious hit, he has distracted everyone with strategies, fantasies, lies and sheer childishness.

I just wanted to clarify the situation in a seperate thread so I can see if I'm seeing this all correctly.

ARBITRATION

1) TTFF chose arbitration in London rather than court in T&T. (They didn't suggest CAS because they knew the players wouldn't go there, so to achieve their aim of keeping it out of T&T court they went for London)
2) TTFF sent no witnesses to defend their case.
3) The players lawyer had to pay £6,000 of TTFFs fees.
4) TTFF have yet to provide the arbitrator with acceptable accounts.
5) The arbitrators decision is binding and enforceable in te T&T court.
6) The players were (apparently) awarded 50% of gross income.
7) As TTFF have admitted certain incomes, the players should be able to claim 50% as an interim payment.
8] This means that ay any time, TTFF could be ordered to pay at least US$1million within 14 days by T&T court, or face bankruptcy.

Gary Hunt

1) Like him or loathe him, Hunt is standing up to Warner.
2) Hunt will support football, but he won't be Jacks bitch. Show your accounts to receie more funding. A perfectly correct way for government to do business.
3) Stadium hiring fees have remained the same for 20 years. Tell me what you can buy today that is less than double the price of 20 years ago. Previous ministers should be critisised for this, not Hunt.
4) Everybody says the stadiums need upgrading. It makes sense to take proceeds from matches to do this, rather than T&T supporters paying twice - once through taxes, then again through ticket prices.
5) If TTFF make so much from ticket sales, where did the money go? And why did they still need handouts?
6) There is no financial reason to play home matches abroad. It is purely POLITICAL pointmaking by Warner. This has nothing to do with football. Warner is waging a war or his party.
7) Warners constituents should write to complain about Warner and make it clear they will not vote for him next time.
8] Supporters of Warners party should speak out in the press because Warner could lose them the next election with his games.
9) Unfortunately FIFA are too wimpish to critisise Warner. But he's clearly mixing politics with football.

National Squad

1) We will never know if Maturana is any good. There is too much interference from Warner.
2) The reason T&T lost on sunday was due to morale and self belief. They have the talent, but that final edge is missing.
3) TTFF are totally incapable of putting on a national team match. I have never seen such a poor build up. Waving a Trinidad handkerchief? No music for the anthem? No fireworks or stage show? Wrong kit? Very amateur, and a sign of the contempt for T&T supporters.

I am shocked and amazed that ANYBODY on this site can still defend Warner. It is true he has done much, but he could have done so much more. He acts like he's the country's top statesman, but he's behaving like a little boy.
The days those accounts come out, he will be finished. He has no TTFF money to play with now and the repercussions are showing. He won't give the blacklisted players a chance. He won't make sensible financial decisions, but would rather make political points.

He's being attacked from all sides. The players and the courts. The supporters. The government.

Its all about those accounts. And do we really believe that a top multinational company like KPMG take 2 years to add up a few million dollars? They handle companies with turnover in the billions. The only reason there is a delay is that TTFF haven't supplied all of the information. Because if they do, the arbitrator will see those figures. And Gary Hunt will have a solid reason not to give out any more money.

Perhaps the T&T Tax people should be putting pressure on TTFF?

Interesting days ahead, people.
Superoli for President of TTFF
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Offline FF

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 03:32:03 PM »
First thing I ent like how you calling people coolieo in de next thread!!


 :rotfl:

arite arite serious talk...

I really feel we hurt Jack more than he letting on with that ticket or leave it fiasco... I don't think he could survive another major scandal... he bringing too much shame to Sepp and dem... de problem is he could probably take all of dem with him if he fall...

You have to wonder why the 2006 books have not been done and what is the hold up... we waiting on those books for over a year...

but Jack only blowing smokescreen with all he hot air...
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 03:33:37 PM by FF »
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Dutty

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2008, 03:44:18 PM »
I agree

Nobody eh go knock him off he pedestal in one shot, but even the largest rock can get eroded by small drips of water given enough time

De only way jack does get wounded is fiscally, and as we see Gary Hunt done fire de first shot in he .....



He can be shaken out of power

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Offline pecan

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2008, 04:04:43 PM »
I dont know if this get post before

The entries in Wikipedia are less than flattering.  It is a wonder that Jack has not tried to edit it and throw a different spin on it.

Austin Jack Warner on Wikipedia

Here are some excerpts

"Warner has been accused of corruption on BBC's Panorama for repeatedly taking advantage of his position for financial gain"

"After Trinidad and Tobago visited Scotland for the friendly match on May 30, 2004 at Easter Road, Jack Warner asked SFA President John McBeth for the cheque for the game to be made out to him personally ..."


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Offline Quags

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2008, 04:45:45 PM »
If they eint merge this men like Alberta go get vex .

Offline weary1969

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2008, 05:08:22 PM »
D world except oui Trinis know d fella crooked like dat but oui boo d 1st man who call he bluff
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Offline sammy

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 05:11:23 PM »
De-ja- Vu



Seriously, how can Jack and the rest of the TTFF board be removed? How did they get there or who appointed them?

My boss used to be a member of TTFF long ago, and the man real dislike warner. As a matter of fact, is he i start to hear things about warner before i really started to read this site.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 05:13:19 PM by sammy »
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Offline E-man

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2008, 05:34:04 PM »
The stake holders are the different regional associations, the ref's association, SSFL. Not sure exactly how it is now but around 2001 the council was:

Eastern FA, Tobago FA, Northern FA, Referees’ Assoc, Secondary Schools FL

the general council consists of
"The 7 officers of the Federation
Seven representatives of each of the 6 Regional Associations
Two representatives of each of the other 5 Member Associations
Honorary Members" (Jack Warner) - Jack sits on the Executive council as a "person appointed by the officers"

In 1993, a constitutional amendment changed the membership from constituent clubs to Member Associations.

I think the PFL has a vote now? and the coaches association?

but not the players' association of course.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2008, 05:35:17 PM »
What players association
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Offline E-man

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2008, 05:45:26 PM »
The last election in 2007 didn't even come to a vote

http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=32257.msg372615#msg372615

The Eastern Association put forward a slate of candidates (all the incumbents) and no one else put up a challenge. So the Central Association seconded it and there was no reason for a vote to be taken.

The meeting was pretty secret and I never saw a list of "in attendance" so don't know what other stake holders were there.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2008, 06:21:22 PM »
Secretive we knew d weekend dat was about it
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2008, 06:35:38 PM »
The way the TTFF constitution is set up, it is will be difficult to move Jack from there. As you all noted the constitution was once one club one vote. Jack was able to change that to only regional association plus the coaches and refs. This way, he can manipilate the heads of each association and they will do his bidding.

The only way that constitution can change is if all the assoc. screw on their balls and vote against Jack. I don't see that happening.

 The other is for the Gov't to step in and takeover. That is instant ban fron Fifa.

 The last option is for the few true ball-jumbies and some waggonist and the diaspora, to put immense pressure thru the media. protest shirts and placards. Go to games with brown paper bag over allyuh head. Also mr. Hunt should continue to demand the transparency and audit reports from the TTFF or A. This situation has to change for sake of  consistency of our football.

Offline JDB

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2008, 06:36:16 PM »
I think that Jack is getting weaker but only because he has gotten bolder.

The funny thing is that for years he would always talk about his position as the only high ranking FIFA official with a home nation without a WC appearance. TnTs qualification was supposed to validate him and make him more respectable in the halls of FIFA

The opposite happen and it is only because of his own greed and arrogance following TnT's qualification for Germany 06

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Offline weary1969

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2008, 06:42:49 PM »
He lives by d philosophy bad publicity betta than no policy
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Offline davidephraim

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2008, 07:26:18 PM »
He lives by d philosophy bad publicity betta than no policy

Well coming back to Kentsoulman facts... I think if this auditing company as Kent put it is accustomed to dealing with bigger outfits than a one million US case, then it will only be but for so long that the JWFF will be able to claim" am ah go send de books just now" There must be fail safes put in place to deal with shit like that so present the books they must. Now is all about how they trying to doctor them books to pass the grade but if this company is worth the paper its corporate seal is drawn on they should be able to ease through de smokescreen and ultimately Jack go have to pay.
This will be a great day... not like we go get some but as Dutty say drips could erode rock and that woulda been a gush. True Jack and Sepp bolted to de hip which is precisely why if de gash get too deep Sep and de "boys" go have to tell Jack to back off of TNT because they could only endure a certain amount of shame on his behalf. Bolted or not...

I watching with baited breath....
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2008, 08:21:48 PM »
Sepp and dem is d key dem have 2 get fed up of d negativity magnet dat is JW
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Offline sammy

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2008, 08:48:48 PM »
Is it possible to put pressure for the Govt to call for a comission of inquiry into TTFF?
Isnt there some action the Govt can take since the audits wasnt submitted? They should try to get them for tax evasion or not paying NIS or something.
If they theifing money in a big way, you could be sure that they theifing in a lil way also.

I feel if the Govt really have the will, they could straighten out the TTFF and only then JW days would be numbered.
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Offline Bourbon

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2008, 10:14:46 PM »
Is it possible to put pressure for the Govt to call for a comission of inquiry into TTFF?
Isnt there some action the Govt can take since the audits wasnt submitted? They should try to get them for tax evasion or not paying NIS or something.
If they theifing money in a big way, you could be sure that they theifing in a lil way also.

I feel if the Govt really have the will, they could straighten out the TTFF and only then JW days would be numbered.

Government Interference = Ban from FIFA and football. And Jack go jus blame Hunt again. And people go take dat.
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2008, 10:19:52 PM »
We still waitin on d COI from nov 19th 1989. COI have all failed as 4 d band bring it on if we get band it go take some real creative accounting 2 tief FIFA money I eh ssay it cyah happen. If we did get band  when d blacklist nonesense did start we would have  been all ready b 1 1/2 in d band
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Offline superoli

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2008, 01:45:05 AM »
okay TTFF is a private company but isnt fraud etc applicable to a private company just as a public comapny ? wouldnt forensic accounting prove dat JAck is a tief ? (which we all know already)  I am pretty dam sure he aint paying his taxes properly the inland revenue could have a field day with his accounts.

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Offline kentsoulman

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2008, 03:23:55 AM »
Is it possible to put pressure for the Govt to call for a comission of inquiry into TTFF?
Isnt there some action the Govt can take since the audits wasnt submitted? They should try to get them for tax evasion or not paying NIS or something.
If they theifing money in a big way, you could be sure that they theifing in a lil way also.

I feel if the Govt really have the will, they could straighten out the TTFF and only then JW days would be numbered.

Government Interference = Ban from FIFA and football. And Jack go jus blame Hunt again. And people go take dat.

But this wouldn't be involvement in football. TTFF are an incorporated business and as such must follow tax rules, the same as FIFA. If they commit an illegal offense, the justice system has the right to prosecute. The legal system over rides Governments and FIFA. In fact, one of FIFAs first regulations is that the associations are legally run.

Remember, Al Capone was only ever found guilty of tax evasion! But that was enough to send him to prison for years.

Offline superoli

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2008, 07:26:20 AM »
I figure a good audit would have him moving to Nigeria for good !
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2008, 07:27:55 AM »
every UNC supporter in TnT would claim that move to be political
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Offline sammy

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2008, 07:30:08 AM »


If a man were to murder someone and belong to the TTFF, then he has diplomatic immunity in his own country? No, he will and should get arrested. If they dont want to investigate the TTFF directly, they could investigate one man individually without 'interfering' with the football federation. Fifa cyah ban yuh from that and i sure they could take fifa to court and win over that. Imagine the increased negative publicity Fifa would get because of it.

But as I said before, someone has a will to do it, but no one really does. Its only talk and gallery for the public as usual.
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Offline sammy

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2008, 07:32:10 AM »
every UNC supporter in TnT would claim that move to be political

True, but since when PNM care bout what UNC supporters say?
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2008, 07:35:40 AM »
every UNC supporter in TnT would claim that move to be political

True, but since when PNM care bout what UNC supporters say?
what I really mean is that it would turn into a real mud slinging episode in TnT politics
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Offline sammy

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2008, 07:49:56 AM »
^
sad but true yes
Daiz y we cyah move forward.


But then again,Knowing the PNM and trini pilitricks in general they would only do it just cause Warner is UNC, and not really in the interest of football
 :-\ 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 07:53:16 AM by sammy »
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Offline elan

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2008, 08:33:57 AM »
I know this maybe far fetched, but what about lighting a fire under KPMG. Start writing editorial about them and they posibbly being in bed with    :-[  JW. Start asking questions of them on the radio stations. Unl;ike JW I doubt they will think that bad publicity is better than no publicity.

Since J give them the book why are they taking so long to get the accounting verified?
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Offline ribbit

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2008, 09:28:08 AM »
As posted by Kentsoulman before it get mash up !

National Squad

1) We will never know if Maturana is any good. There is too much interference from Warner.
3) TTFF are totally incapable of putting on a national team match. I have never seen such a poor build up. Waving a Trinidad handkerchief? No music for the anthem? No fireworks or stage show? Wrong kit? Very amateur, and a sign of the contempt for T&T supporters.

nice writeup KSM. these are the two points that stood out for me. the bottom line should be the competent management of T&T football. JW here to stay.

the 2nd point seem like it is just plain incompetence by the TTFF. as Eman pointed out above, there is a constitution for the TTFF. seems like the regional associations want the status quo - they either satisfied with way things are running or lack alternatives.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Are Warners days numbered ? (de sequel)
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2008, 10:24:46 AM »


If a man were to murder someone and belong to the TTFF, then he has diplomatic immunity in his own country? No, he will and should get arrested. If they dont want to investigate the TTFF directly, they could investigate one man individually without 'interfering' with the football federation. Fifa cyah ban yuh from that and i sure they could take fifa to court and win over that. Imagine the increased negative publicity Fifa would get because of it.

But as I said before, someone has a will to do it, but no one really does. Its only talk and gallery for the public as usual.

So what do you think all this noise about transparency and accountability with public funds is all about...or have you not been following?

Hopefully it will lead to some sort of persecution if the books are not in order.   If Panday can be brought up on charges... and Ish...who is Jack?