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Author Topic: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?  (Read 3290 times)

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Offline palos

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In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« on: June 23, 2008, 01:03:44 AM »
I sure de players felt in dey mind dat dey had to do SOMETING to show dat dey couldn't jes be ripped off so blatantly and in such a bole face manner.

But de damage dat lawsuit has unleashed on T&T football....one has to ask....WAS IT WORTH IT?

Players blacklisted.....and that affects their livelihood as club players as well.

A previously tight and united team now fractured.  Dis one eh talkin to dat one.  Ince testify against Kelvin Jack in court.  Men careers in ruins.

Yorke & Latas...probably yuh 2 biggest bargainin chips basically sayin dem eh want no part a dat.

Men who have a particular agent eh part a de lawsuit but stand in solidarity wit dey breddrins.....except....dem gettin call back to play fuh T&T but not de oddahs

Spare a thought fuh Densil Theobald.  He defy de popular opinion of de players and went and sign on wit de establishment.  Was even made captain.  Decide to run like Yorkie and all, fuss he tek to de role.  And wha he get fuh he "loyalty"?  A new football position.  LEFT OUT!  Not even a trial.  And dis man was we captain eh.

I readin bout Cornell Glen and wonderin about how we lorsin one a we brightest talents jes so.  And it makes me mad. Because he is by no means alone. He sure as hell eh de first and sadly won't be de last.  And is all  because of people wit selfish agendas who care not a whit about T&T but about their personal ambitions and their petty egos.

I'm not blaming the players.  Far from it.  I blame those who put them in this horrible position in the first place.  Historically, our footballers have always been abused.  From Eric James to his protege Jack Warner.  Footballing leeches who suck the lifeblood and joy out of the game, sacrificing our football at the altar of their personal greed and narcissism.

If Brent Sancho, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack & co somehow had glasses dat could see into the future, I wonder if they could honestly tell themselves that they would do it exactly the same way again knowing the consequences.  If not exactly the same way, what would they have done differently knowing is de devil & he imps dey dealin wit.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 01:09:12 AM by palos »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 01:45:41 AM »
Quote
I'm not blaming the players.  Far from it.

Then yuh need to re-title this budding shit thread. 

The lawsuit is of "worth" primarily to the players (with a remote secondary interest to the public).  To question the worth of the lawsuit is to question the decision of the players to pursue it.  If yuh "not blaming the players"... then why are you questioning whether they should have pursued it?

I sure nobody wanted the fallout we seeing now... and the fallout isn't the result of the lawsuit, the fallout is the result of Jack Warner and the TTFF's small-mindedness.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 01:50:42 AM by Bake n Shark »

Offline WestCoast

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 01:53:31 AM »
... and the fallout isn't the result of the lawsuit, the fallout is the result of Jack Warner and the TTFF's small-mindedness.
Jackula is a little boy in a big man body..he is not very professional at all to many TnT players
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Offline oconnorg

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2008, 03:50:24 AM »
... and the fallout isn't the result of the lawsuit, the fallout is the result of Jack Warner and the TTFF's small-mindedness.
Jackula is a little boy in a big man body..he is not very professional at all to many TnT players

Hell yes it worth it.. That biacth name jackoo was trying to give dem dirt and tell dem they getting sugar.

He cud haul he arse. Dem men en black list them selves. To ask ifit was worth is, is to suggest the blacklisted players are at fault for the detriment of the football.
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Offline oconnorg

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2008, 03:59:34 AM »
... and the fallout isn't the result of the lawsuit, the fallout is the result of Jack Warner and the TTFF's small-mindedness.
Jackula is a little boy in a big man body..he is not very professional at all to many TnT players

Hell yes it worth it.. That biacth name jackoo was trying to give dem dirt and tell dem they getting sugar.

He cud haul he arse. Dem men en black list them selves. To ask ifit was worth is, is to suggest the blacklisted players are at fault for the detriment of the football.
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Offline JDB

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2008, 04:02:56 AM »
Quote
I'm not blaming the players.  Far from it.

Then yuh need to re-title this budding shit thread. 

The lawsuit is of "worth" primarily to the players (with a remote secondary interest to the public).  To question the worth of the lawsuit is to question the decision of the players to pursue it.  If yuh "not blaming the players"... then why are you questioning whether they should have pursued it?

I sure nobody wanted the fallout we seeing now... and the fallout isn't the result of the lawsuit, the fallout is the result of Jack Warner and the TTFF's small-mindedness.


I think that by saying he is not blaming the blaming the players he is acknowledging that it was not a bad decision based on what was known at the time.

Not many could have predicted the exact course of subsequent events and so he is asking whether the players would have made the same decision knowing what they know now.

Good thread IMO especially since it points out the magnitude of what has been lost.

Most on here feel that some players haven't played for a couple games and will be back and we on the road to success after a pit stop. Man still bragging to Jamaicans that we tie them with a "B squad" and a "C squad" when in fact that is the squad.

We take a detour and we will not have anything resembling our most successful team again until we build one from scratch, which is a long process.


To ask ifit was worth is, is to suggest the blacklisted players are at fault for the detriment of the football.

It is not the same. If you decide to go out the road to get something necessary but end up in a accident you don't blame yourself for the original decision because there is no way to predict what would have happened. You could very easily question whether it was worth it, after the fact, though.

I would say that it was worth it though. The players have to look out for themselves. There are a couple players who have had bad breaks since the WC and the TTFF situation has not helped but who is to say if things would have been different with their pro careers.

For most of them that trip to the WC was IT since they can't bank on the TTFF keeping them competitive for 2010. The way our federation moves even if they didn't sue there would be something to mash up the team, plus multiple coaching changes, scandals and reneging onpayments so they have to take care of themselves.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 04:37:29 AM by JDB »
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2008, 04:20:33 AM »
Not many could have predicted the exact course of subsequent events and so he is asking whether true players would have made the same decision knowing what they know now.
eh?
true players?
I dont think that anyone would have asked for their money if they knew what Jackula would do
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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Offline JDB

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2008, 04:27:26 AM »
Not many could have predicted the exact course of subsequent events and so he is asking whether true players would have made the same decision knowing what they know now.
eh?
true players?
I dont think that anyone would have asked for their money if they knew what Jackula would do

Should have been "the" players. Typing on one a phone with that tries to predict the words when you make typos.
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Offline oconnorg

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2008, 04:28:02 AM »
Not many could have predicted the exact course of subsequent events and so he is asking whether true players would have made the same decision knowing what they know now.
eh?
true players?
I dont think that anyone would have asked for their money if they knew what Jackula would do

But is their money?!!

And dont forget, this man took a 13 mil Us endorsement from Addidas and magically turn it into 12 mil.

In the space of one day a mil buss it.. Jackoffasour is a crook. It needed to be one.
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Offline futbolfan

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2008, 04:39:27 AM »
Not many could have predicted the exact course of subsequent events and so he is asking whether true players would have made the same decision knowing what they know now.
eh?
true players?
I dont think that anyone would have asked for their money if they knew what Jackula would do

But is their money?!!

And dont forget, this man took a 13 mil Us endorsement from Addidas and magically turn it into 12 mil.

In the space of one day a mil buss it.. Jackoffasour is a crook. It needed to be one.

yeah dah 1 mil ha tuh be some kinda ah bank charges or transaction fee  :-\
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Offline Bakes

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2008, 06:17:13 AM »
Quote
I'm not blaming the players.  Far from it.

Then yuh need to re-title this budding shit thread. 

The lawsuit is of "worth" primarily to the players (with a remote secondary interest to the public).  To question the worth of the lawsuit is to question the decision of the players to pursue it.  If yuh "not blaming the players"... then why are you questioning whether they should have pursued it?

I sure nobody wanted the fallout we seeing now... and the fallout isn't the result of the lawsuit, the fallout is the result of Jack Warner and the TTFF's small-mindedness.


I think that by saying he is not blaming the blaming the players he is acknowledging that it was not a bad decision based on what was known at the time.

Not many could have predicted the exact course of subsequent events and so he is asking whether the players would have made the same decision knowing what they know now.

Good thread IMO especially since it points out the magnitude of what has been lost.

Most on here feel that some players haven't played for a couple games and will be back and we on the road to success after a pit stop. Man still bragging to Jamaicans that we tie them with a "B squad" and a "C squad" when in fact that is the squad.

We take a detour and we will not have anything resembling our most successful team again until we build one from scratch, which is a long process.


Palos raises some very valid points... and to this end my suggestion to him is to re-title the thread not delete it.  Having titled it as he has allows for it to give rise to inferences that might be counter to his aims.  To put it colloquially, it runs the risk of budding into a shit thread.

Quote
It is not the same. If you decide to go out the road to get something necessary but end up in a accident you don't blame yourself for the original decision because there is no way to predict what would have happened. You could very easily question whether it was worth it, after the fact, though.

I would say that it was worth it though. The players have to look out for themselves. There are a couple players who have had bad breaks since the WC and the TTFF situation has not helped but who is to say if things would have been different with their pro careers.

For most of them that trip to the WC was IT since they can't bank on the TTFF keeping them competitive for 2010. The way our federation moves even if they didn't sue there would be something to mash up the team, plus multiple coaching changes, scandals and reneging onpayments so they have to take care of themselves.

It's noble of you to construe the question in a manner as favorable to Palos as possible... but clearly judging by the early returns your interpretation is in the minority.  From your hypothetical, the decision to go out the road has to be judged by the purpose for which you set out... not by the end result of a chain of events completely beyond your control, events which you reasonably could not have foreseen.  To do otherwise would we to engage in needless and unproductive second-guessing...particularly in light of the import of the initial purpose.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 12:28:51 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline spideybuff

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2008, 06:45:57 AM »
Just because you can't win the battle, doesn't mean you don't put your all into at least trying to win.
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Offline real madness

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2008, 06:54:18 AM »
I sure de players felt in dey mind dat dey had to do SOMETING to show dat dey couldn't jes be ripped off so blatantly and in such a bole face manner.

But de damage dat lawsuit has unleashed on T&T football....one has to ask....WAS IT WORTH IT?

Players blacklisted.....and that affects their livelihood as club players as well.

A previously tight and united team now fractured.  Dis one eh talkin to dat one.  Ince testify against Kelvin Jack in court.  Men careers in ruins.

Yorke & Latas...probably yuh 2 biggest bargainin chips basically sayin dem eh want no part a dat.

Men who have a particular agent eh part a de lawsuit but stand in solidarity wit dey breddrins.....except....dem gettin call back to play fuh T&T but not de oddahs

Spare a thought fuh Densil Theobald.  He defy de popular opinion of de players and went and sign on wit de establishment.  Was even made captain.  Decide to run like Yorkie and all, fuss he tek to de role.  And wha he get fuh he "loyalty"?  A new football position.  LEFT OUT!  Not even a trial.  And dis man was we captain eh.

I readin bout Cornell Glen and wonderin about how we lorsin one a we brightest talents jes so.  And it makes me mad. Because he is by no means alone. He sure as hell eh de first and sadly won't be de last.  And is all  because of people wit selfish agendas who care not a whit about T&T but about their personal ambitions and their petty egos.

I'm not blaming the players.  Far from it.  I blame those who put them in this horrible position in the first place.  Historically, our footballers have always been abused.  From Eric James to his protege Jack Warner.  Footballing leeches who suck the lifeblood and joy out of the game, sacrificing our football at the altar of their personal greed and narcissism.

If Brent Sancho, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack & co somehow had glasses dat could see into the future, I wonder if they could honestly tell themselves that they would do it exactly the same way again knowing the consequences.  If not exactly the same way, what would they have done differently knowing is de devil & he imps dey dealin wit.

yorke and latas didnt take part in the lawsuit because they had a different agreement than the other player and they got their money (at least some if it)

Offline real madness

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2008, 06:56:58 AM »
Quote
I'm not blaming the players.  Far from it.

Then yuh need to re-title this budding shit thread. 

The lawsuit is of "worth" primarily to the players (with a remote secondary interest to the public).  To question the worth of the lawsuit is to question the decision of the players to pursue it.  If yuh "not blaming the players"... then why are you questioning whether they should have pursued it?

I sure nobody wanted the fallout we seeing now... and the fallout isn't the result of the lawsuit, the fallout is the result of Jack Warner and the TTFF's small-mindedness.

well said..if the blacklist continues and we do not qualify for the world cup some idiots on this site will lay blame on the blacklisted players instead of blaming Jack

Offline trinikev

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2008, 09:14:13 AM »
Yes it was worth it. Yes we football in a sad state right now, but really and truly it's been in a sad state for quite a while. The WC qualification just kinda made ppl temporarily forget the shit that has been going on for years. Then Jack bring us back to earth by showing again what a money-grubbing leech he is.

Jack been doing this to the players since before i born. Is only now they made a real stand against it. And the lawsuit wasn't their initial reaction. Jack basically dared them to sue him. He left them no choice. And remember, they won the arbitration case. So that right there is a huge victory. That alone would make it worth it.

But doh forget that FPATT was formed as a result of this as well. The players now have a presence that they could have only dreamed of before. Jack could play he not recognizing FPATT as much as he wants, FIFPro has recognized FPATT, and is only so long Jack could ignore them. Last I heard, FPATT has somewhere in the neighbourhood of 65 members and counting, so they definitely making progress. This is a foundation for generation upon generation of T&T footballers.

The legal action by the players has also led the government to demand accountability and transparency from Jack & co., which is what we have been requesting for years. Our players are HEROES for making their stand against Jack. The 'worth' of this action has only barely begun to take root. We will come out of this stronger than ever before. It was more than worth it.    :beermug:
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Offline weary1969

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2008, 11:37:53 AM »
Of course it was worth it and dem 16 fellas will always b stars in my book. Dey saw evil and dealt wit it.
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Offline Dutty

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2008, 12:07:04 PM »
"That which is bitter to endure may be sweet to remember"-T. Fuller........or as somebody in trini does say 'yuh hadda stoop to conquer'
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Offline Bakes

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2008, 12:35:07 PM »
Yes it was worth it. Yes we football in a sad state right now, but really and truly it's been in a sad state for quite a while. The WC qualification just kinda made ppl temporarily forget the shit that has been going on for years. Then Jack bring us back to earth by showing again what a money-grubbing leech he is.

Jack been doing this to the players since before i born. Is only now they made a real stand against it. And the lawsuit wasn't their initial reaction. Jack basically dared them to sue him. He left them no choice. And remember, they won the arbitration case. So that right there is a huge victory. That alone would make it worth it.

But doh forget that FPATT was formed as a result of this as well. The players now have a presence that they could have only dreamed of before. Jack could play he not recognizing FPATT as much as he wants, FIFPro has recognized FPATT, and is only so long Jack could ignore them. Last I heard, FPATT has somewhere in the neighbourhood of 65 members and counting, so they definitely making progress. This is a foundation for generation upon generation of T&T footballers.

The legal action by the players has also led the government to demand accountability and transparency from Jack & co., which is what we have been requesting for years. Our players are HEROES for making their stand against Jack. The 'worth' of this action has only barely begun to take root. We will come out of this stronger than ever before. It was more than worth it.    :beermug:

Excellent points Kev... we really should not lose sight of the fact that the lawsuit...or more accurately, the arbitration case has resulted in the formation of FPATT, and increased scrutiny on the TTFF, by many agencies, but most relevantly by the Ministry of Sports.  True some of it may be due to Hunt's personality (maybe he just likes accountability), or his personal issues with the TTFF (he think Jack is ah ole tief and he just want to give him hell), but regardless it has helped bring to light some of the TTFF's creative 'accounting' practices.

As for FPATT, I know many still rolling their eyes and wondering what the big fuss is about...but trust, FPATT is getting ready to be a player in local sports... once players become greater stakeholders in our football, we'll start to see things take a turn for the better.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 07:44:23 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline Football supporter

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2008, 02:01:12 PM »
I think our total membership is up to around 90 now. Brent has personally signed up around 20 since he's been in T&T and is still to visit some clubs.

Remember, we have no money as yet, and therefore we have few benefits to offer. Potential sponsors are wary of aligning themselves with FPATT and incurring the wrath of Mr Warner.

I know we have been quiet for a while, but we have been developing several projects which, if we can bring them to fruition, will benefit many people in T&T, not just footballers and supporters.

Its very frustrating, but we are growing stronger day by day. The disapointing aspect is that we could achieve so much more for our members, supporters and the people of T&T if Mr Warner supported us.

Offline Deeks

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2008, 02:43:41 PM »
YES IT IS WORTH EVERY PENNY FARTING!!!(farthing)

Offline College

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2008, 02:57:37 PM »
yes >:(

Offline sjahrain

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2008, 05:25:35 PM »
No if`s or and`s about it,well done,this had to come some day because this abuse have been going down for way to long
How many times the master going to kick the dog before the dog retaliates

On another note here as much as we all are calling for the      blacklisted players,well they be fit enough to step right in and contribute,now before answering keep in mind that our next game is in August,the English season has been through for a couple weeks what type of football shape will these players be in,I would hope that for thier sakes they have been engageing in some serious workouts

Offline Deeks

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2008, 05:40:35 PM »
sjahrain,
              That is very interesting. I am hoping these guys will be call back now rather than later. They will have to comprehend this "new" system by Pacho.
 If they were to be called much near game time,  it may be to late for them to learn the system in time. The blacklisted  players must work out and stay fit on their own. And if ever they remove the blacklist,  they can just fit in without much trouble. Wishfull thinking.

Offline Mr Mc

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2008, 06:01:55 PM »

Its very frustrating, but we are growing stronger day by day. The disapointing aspect is that we could achieve so much more for our members, supporters and the people of T&T if Mr Warner supported us.

never happen!

Hindsight is always 20/20 and I dont think anyone would have predicted that Jack would ban the best footballers in the country after they took us to the promise land and made us proud.
But, I still think it was worth it for them to stand up and fight.  Them fellas is the Rosa Parks of TnT football civil rights. they will go down in history, i hope we always remember what the sacrificed.

Offline Savannah boy

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Re: In retrospect, was de lawsuit worth it?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2008, 06:55:48 PM »
Nice post dey Palos.  You laid it out nicely.