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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #90 on: November 18, 2019, 01:27:27 PM »
This morning I had the pleasure of contextualizing the match on Ecuadorian radio in Q & A for the audience of one of Ecuador's most respected voices on football. The segment lasted about 15 minutes. I'll try to source the segment.

About to post content that reflects in part what what was discussed and that was provided in written form elsewhere.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #91 on: November 18, 2019, 01:29:57 PM »
Chambi Sey: Preparándose para matar un tiburón con un pececillo, el caso dudoso de Trinidad y Tobago

Trinidad y Tobago llega a Ecuador finalmente logrando su primera victoria en 15 partidos, una semana antes del saque de salida en Portoviejo y catorce meses después de derrotar a los Emiratos Árabes Unidos por dos goles a cero, en un encuentro esencialmente jugado a puertas cerradas en España. El logro fue cumplido mediante la programación conveniente de Anguila, el equipo de más bajo ranking de todas las 209 asociaciones miembros de la FIFA. Aparte de países rivales de dentro la CONCACAF, durante el transcurso de la sequía de derrotas y empates, los oponentes no CONCACAF que Trinidad y Tobago han enfrentado son Tailandia, Irán, Gales, Japón y Venezuela. Ecuador será el cuarto oponente de fuera de CONCACAF que encara Trinidad y Tobago en 2019 y de manera optimista solo el segundo país en esta categoría que Trinidad y Tobago derrotaría durante el mandato de este cuerpo técnico y sus 28 partidos.

Anguila es una pequeña dependencia británica, delimitada por el Océano Atlántico Norte, enclavada en el Caribe al este de Puerto Rico. Su territorio es de 91 kilómetros cuadrados y la isla tiene una población de menos de 19,000 habitantes. En el rango de edad de 15 a 24 años, Anguila tiene una población masculina de 1500 personas. Esta estadística proporciona una indicación refinada de la poca base de jugadores disponibles a Anguilla y del absurdo de la propuesta inicial. A pesar de haber tenido ocasionalmente algunos elementos de las ligas inferiores ingleses, la selección anguilana no cuenta verdaderamente con jugadores que puedan ganarse la vida con el fútbol.

Antes del encuentro los Soca Warriors eran dueños de un récord, poco favorecedor, de una victoria, nueve derrotas y cuatro empates y la única noción de paridad y coincidencia futbolística entre los dos equipos eran que ambos no habían ganado un partido durante 2019. Anguila presentó un equipo muy inexperto cuya mejor actuación fue una derrota por tres a dos ante Puerto Rico, pero misteriosamente Trinidad y Tobago nombró un conjunto de titulares con experiencia internacional creíble, sin pensar ampliamente en la próxima generación de seleccionados nacionales. Quede claro que el cuerpo técnico se preocupó más por eliminar la mancha del registro estadístico poco halagador a toda costa y se comprometió lograr un ritmo de juego entre el núcleo de jugadores establecidos para poder ubicar algún vestigio de beneficio psicológico después de una mala racha, pero, de manera realista, el partido hubiera sido más adecuado como un partido de exhibición de pretemporada que para las condiciones a la víspera de un compromiso serio de hacer o morir.

Desde la última vez que las selecciones ecuatorianas y trinitenses se enfrentaron en julio de 2017, si bien el fútbol ecuatoriano a nivel de la selección nacional ha experimentado cambios fundamentales y la estructura de gestión y el modelo de negocio del fútbol profesional ecuatoriano ha transformado radicalmente, el panorama del fútbol élite en Trinidad y Tobago ha sido estático y paralizante y ha quedado frustrado sin cambio radical, por no haber logrado un consenso entre los principales interesados, para superar los impases polémicos o para implementar las recomendaciones de un grupo experto de la UEFA sobre cómo consolidar y mejorar las operaciones de fútbol en el país.

Por el contrario, mientras que Javier Tebas, el jefe de La Liga, entre otras personas, ha aplaudido la visionaria toma de decisiones y el liderazgo de la LigaPro y la federación ecuatoriana con presagios para futuros impactos positivos a los clubes y la selección nacional, la liga profesional de Trinidad y Tobago ha estado plagada de inercias y obstáculos financieros que han resultado en la interrupción operacional de partidos profesionales desde diciembre del año pasado. Aunque hasta cierto punto los desafíos del fútbol profesional trinitense han influido en la falta de coherencia de juego de la selección nacional, la mayoría de los jugadores relevantes están empleados fuera de Trinidad y Tobago. Así que, los resultados de rendimiento del equipo se explican mejor por las deficiencias tácticas en el enfoque de juego, las consecuencias psicológicas de ese enfoque estilístico y las brechas físicas, fisiológicas y técnicas a nivel individual y colectivo.

Si bien solo hay dos futbolistas de nacionalidad ecuatoriana en la USL, la segunda división de fútbol profesional en los Estados Unidos, hay diecisiete jugadores trinitarios que representaron clubes de la misma liga durante la presente campaña. Si bien es poco probable que incluso los fanáticos más ardientes del fútbol ecuatoriano conozcan los nombres de los jugadores ecuatorianos de la USL, los jugadores trinitenses no son productos desconocidos respecto a su importancia para llenar la lista de selección nacional de Trinidad y Tobago. Esta distorsión también resalta las distintas circunstancias de las dos selecciones nacionales y cómo se espera que los equipos se desempeñen en competencia entre ellos.

Antes de la victoria de Trinidad y Tobago frente a los Estados Unidos que negó el paso de los estadounidenses a la Copa Mundial de Rusia 2018, habían varios jugadores en la MLS. En 2017 hubo seis jugadores reconocidos de Trinidad y Tobago en la MLS, cinco de los cuales se presentaron regularmente para la selección trinitense durante aquel período. Desde entonces, tres de los seis jugadores han bajado a la división inferior y otro, Kenwyne Jones, un trasplante destacado de la liga Premier de Inglaterra, se ha retirado. En 2019 hay ocho jugadores afiliados a clubes de la MLS que son elegibles para vestirse la camiseta de Trinidad y Tobago, pero dos de esos jugadores están prestados a equipos de la segunda división estadounidense y cuatro de ellos aún no se han debutado a nivel de la selección nacional. En contraste, hay cinco ecuatorianos en las listas de equipos de la MLS y tres de ellos han sido seleccionados para los próximos amistosos contra Trinidad y Tobago y Colombia. A comparar, para razones que no son claras, no hay jugadores trinitenses de la MLS incluidos dentro el plantel de Trinidad y Tobago que enfrentará Ecuador.

El partido de esta noche es una reunión entre dos entrenadores, uno de los cuales realmente está al comienzo de un proceso experimental y de recambio con su selección nacional, y otro que, a pesar de estar al frente de la selección hace casi tres años, todavía se presenta como si estuviera encerrado en un proceso experimental, no obstante haber aprovechado una retórica de planificación a largo plazo. También es una pelea entre un entrenador que desea presentar a su afición una mejor actuación que la derrota por 6-1 ante Argentina y otro entrenador que fabricó una destrucción 15-0 del equipo de menor rango de la FIFA aparentemente para explorar patrones de juego y la ejecución fiel de sus instrucciones, a pesar de encarar el adversario más débil posible cuando realmente fue para sentar las bases de una nueva plataforma psicológica, esperando que permitiera a sus cargos visualizar y enmarcar goles frente a Ecuador y Honduras. Nosotros suponemos que si nada ha funcionado, use lo que pueda funcionar, incluso si es fantasía.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 01:31:43 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #92 on: November 18, 2019, 02:15:41 PM »
Given the disgraceful management by the TTFA, I'm both shocked and awed by any player who will still put a shirt on for us, and certainly don't hold it against those who don't.

Could not agree with this statement more.
bull. International football is not a money making venture its a labor of love. no player goes to play for his country expecting a paycheck. taylor twellman said it best when the usa lossed to us and the players were complaining about field conditions he said, Belgium played Bosnia in a cow pasture and grinned out a win, there’s no excuse for not giving your all for your country, it’s about national pride...

I get you Pull Stones and I understand your point - given your other post you perhaps understand my view point give I'm an Englishman myself. However, over time, having been in the working world for too long now, I find it incredulous that players are being asked to risk their only source of income, short as it is anyway, to play half-way across the world with no protection. Is it right we ask these players to risk their whole careers, their safety and security in middle and old age, for their country, when the TTFA doesn't insure them against injury and doesn't take adequate provision for their care.

You can be proud of your country and love the game, and still reach the conclusion that playing internationally simply isn't the right thing to do. When I was a kid I couldn't understand anyone not wanting to play for their country, but as someone with a family, debt, life insurance and planning for a pension to ensure my family are well cared for for the duration of their lives, whether I'm around or not, I can definitely see why such a risk wouldn't be worth taking.


Look at the example I gave you - not sure what field you work in but would you do all that for Trinidad right now? Especially if DJW was in control of the operation?

Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #93 on: November 18, 2019, 02:16:44 PM »
Preparing to kill a shark with kettle fish, unfortunately that's the reality of how the rest of the world outside of CFU views us.

Offline pull stones

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #94 on: November 18, 2019, 05:50:20 PM »
Given the disgraceful management by the TTFA, I'm both shocked and awed by any player who will still put a shirt on for us, and certainly don't hold it against those who don't.

Could not agree with this statement more.
bull. International football is not a money making venture its a labor of love. no player goes to play for his country expecting a paycheck. taylor twellman said it best when the usa lossed to us and the players were complaining about field conditions he said, Belgium played Bosnia in a cow pasture and grinned out a win, there’s no excuse for not giving your all for your country, it’s about national pride...

I get you Pull Stones and I understand your point - given your other post you perhaps understand my view point give I'm an Englishman myself. However, over time, having been in the working world for too long now, I find it incredulous that players are being asked to risk their only source of income, short as it is anyway, to play half-way across the world with no protection. Is it right we ask these players to risk their whole careers, their safety and security in middle and old age, for their country, when the TTFA doesn't insure them against injury and doesn't take adequate provision for their care.

You can be proud of your country and love the game, and still reach the conclusion that playing internationally simply isn't the right thing to do. When I was a kid I couldn't understand anyone not wanting to play for their country, but as someone with a family, debt, life insurance and planning for a pension to ensure my family are well cared for for the duration of their lives, whether I'm around or not, I can definitely see why such a risk wouldn't be worth taking.


Look at the example I gave you - not sure what field you work in but would you do all that for Trinidad right now? Especially if DJW was in control of the operation?
listen up mate. if jovin had blanked the federation on account he didn’t feel protected by the them or their needs weren’t taken into consideration or for lack of financial gratification or physical well being I would say kudos to you lad it’s your basic right and in this day and age of football he would be in order and I would support him in that regard, but none of what I described was the catalyst for his omission.

his discontentment was based on his treatment and lack of consideration by the manager. don’t  you think jovin knows that it is highly possible that DJW more than likely will lose the election and lawrence would be soon out of a job and out of the way? remember William Wallace was the team manager during hart’s tenure and the players all know him and from what I’ve been hearing he’s a favorite among men and has the ears of the players, dont you think those men aren’t in touch with each other?

my view is that jovin did what he did last night as a last attempt to stick it to dennis for the way he was mishandled, it was revenge served very cold. he didn’t stop for one second to consider the damage it would have done to the country’s chances of losing out on the gold cup and World Cup hex, that never occurred to him, it was all about jovin and how he felt.

do you remember when we were trying to get into the gold cup and we had to play haiti and surename? Tom sanfiet was the coach and hart was recently fired, jovin and bateau organized a game where carenage played st anns, it was the very weekend we played with a C team and lost to surename and haiti while the coach had to scramble for players throughout the length and breath of trinidad while these guys made themselves unavailable.

what about when Cummings was injured in the shooting and we needed all the help we could musta it was going into the copa america centenario and jovin excused himself only to be seen on a jet ski liming in the middle of the sea by a member who was on a party boat and happened to see him.

what about over the years while jovin was playing for oto fister and Steven hart he also would be playing minor league football in carenage and if i’m mistaking that played a role in getting him dismissed from the team by oto fister both him and guerra, that and turning up late for practice and not showing up sometimes at all. hart also took offense to jovin’s minor league escapades and so did raymond timkee who spoke to him about his conduct.

and there was cordel cato showing up for camp late with his woman in tow and having an attitude in the dressing room, the Lester peltier shananigans, molino and his boat rides, him and mikel Williams and the list goes on. like i said, these guys are no angels i will be very careful how i defend them. I don’t care who disagrees with me, but what him and molino did last night was vengeful to the tenth degree, and now dennis will be on his way to europe the fat boss back to connection and there’s no football for we until after 2022, and that’s jacked up and spiteful on so many levels.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 06:09:13 PM by pull stones »

Offline Deeks

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #95 on: November 18, 2019, 07:30:02 PM »
I am old enough to see a certain pattern in our football that causes some players to diss  the TTFA. This has been going on for years. While some of the players could be blamed, the lion share of culpability lies with the TTFA. Here is a list of events of the past.

1969 Concacaf tournament in CR. Players rebelled because of the accommodation and the food. On the return, some players were banned. But the most notable person on the list was the trainer, Trevor Smith, aka, "Burnt Boots", the sport writer. He got a permanent ban. He and his Havard
 crew ceremoniously burnt his boots at the Roxy roundabout and buried them in the Lapyrouse cemetery.

1971:Prior to the Concacaf tournament which was held in TT that year, TT  play Ven. about 3 games here. TT destroyed the Venzuelans in the 3 games. Apparently the Vens. thought TT was a walkover and they sent their university national team. TT had no pros for this goodwill tour.

So the Vens. invite TT to come  Ven and play in a return goodwill tour. This time the Vens used pros from their league. TT was all amateurs.  TT lost all 2 or 3 games. Then and there the bachannal started. The players strike for money. Some claimed that when they go on tour they do not get pay from their jobs and that the TTFA should compensate them. TTFA ban them and decided that they would use some of the school boys on the the team for the upcoming Concacaf tournament in TT. They brought in Spann, Peter Mitchell and some I can't remember off hand. Eventually they had a settlement. One player refused. That was Jimmy Springer from Maple, possibly the best mid fielder in TT at the time. He was a stand your ground kind of man. He never played first class or international again. He went on a self imposed exile. He died a couple years ago.

When the Concacaf tournament came around, all the pros in the NASL did not make themselves available. DeLeon, Archibald,Selris Figaro and I think Jan Steadman(not sure) refused the compensation that the TTFA offered. Gally did not play because he was injured. Suffice to say we did not perform well in our home field. We did not perform well at all.

1973: The Concacaf tournament was being held in Haiti. It doubled as the WC qualification for Germany 1974. The TTFA had elected Ken Galt who had a high position in Neal and Massy. He played for TT in the pre independence days. He had a strong passion for the game. They settled their differences with some of the players. With his connection, Mr. Galt brought in some much needed cash for the association. Archibald, Figaro and Gally Cummings agreed to go. Deleon refused and also Sammy LLewellyn(who was the up and coming forward refused). He worked on the port, and that was close to Christmas, and that is when the port is extra busy. Plenty OT.

 I must agree the TTFA under Galt did a great job in preparing the team. They brought in Ken Verity from England on short notice and they almost performed a miracle in Haiti. After performing so badly in the tournament at home to almost going to Germany.

So allyuh see this is nothing new to TT football.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 08:04:24 PM by Deeks »

Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #96 on: November 19, 2019, 07:53:40 AM »
Deeks did Jimmy Springer from Maple play for Trinity College as well?

Offline Tallman

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #97 on: November 19, 2019, 08:11:29 AM »
Deeks did Jimmy Springer from Maple play for Trinity College as well?

Springer went QRC
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Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #98 on: November 19, 2019, 09:26:43 AM »
Deeks did Jimmy Springer from Maple play for Trinity College as well?
Springer went QRC
Ok thanks TM. I felt like Trinity had a Springer as well, he was a former player then coach in the 80's I think.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #99 on: November 19, 2019, 10:10:14 AM »
Deeks did Jimmy Springer from Maple play for Trinity College as well?
Springer went QRC
Ok thanks TM. I felt like Trinity had a Springer as well, he was a former player then coach in the 80's I think.

Yeah, Jimmy went QRC in the early 60s. Was a very good player. I think he was good enough to make it England or US after seeing him play against Chelsea in the Oval and listening on radio when TT played Southampton at Skinner’s Park. The Springer that went Trinity could have been related especially if he was from Tunapuna.

Offline soccerman

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #100 on: November 19, 2019, 02:47:08 PM »
Deeks did Jimmy Springer from Maple play for Trinity College as well?
Springer went QRC
Ok thanks TM. I felt like Trinity had a Springer as well, he was a former player then coach in the 80's I think.

Yeah, Jimmy went QRC in the early 60s. Was a very good player. I think he was good enough to make it England or US after seeing him play against Chelsea in the Oval and listening on radio when TT played Southampton at Skinner’s Park. The Springer that went Trinity could have been related especially if he was from Tunapuna.
Deeks you must be a prophet, the guy I'm thinking about I believe his name is Vernon Skinner and not Springer and he played in the 70's.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Thread for Ecuador vs T&T (14-Nov-2019)
« Reply #101 on: November 19, 2019, 06:32:04 PM »
Deeks did Jimmy Springer from Maple play for Trinity College as well?
Springer went QRC
Ok thanks TM. I felt like Trinity had a Springer as well, he was a former player then coach in the 80's I think.

Yeah, Jimmy went QRC in the early 60s. Was a very good player. I think he was good enough to make it England or US after seeing him play against Chelsea in the Oval and listening on radio when TT played Southampton at Skinner’s Park. The Springer that went Trinity could have been related especially if he was from Tunapuna.
Deeks you must be a prophet, the guy I'm thinking about I believe his name is Vernon Skinner and not Springer and he played in the 70's.

Ok Veron Skinner. I know him. He was after my time. Never seen him play in TT. Saw him play in NY a number times. Pretty good player. So many good players go by the wayside and left the game in frustration. And there is the very sad case of Bert Neptune. RIP.

 

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