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Offline behind-de-bridge

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Race and sprinting
« on: August 21, 2008, 08:34:56 AM »
I am not a politician so  I could ask this questions. How is it that sprinting is dominated by decendants of west africa, but not by west africans themselves? I do not think a west african (Nigeria, Ghana etc) ever won a senior world title.

When was the last time a white man made the 100m final in the olympics or worlds?

Is sprinting about nature or nuture?

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 08:42:55 AM »
 How COME HOCKEY AND SKIING ARE DOMINATED BY more Euro ethinic groups....? Is it race or climate or historic, soico economics or  culture?
Why is Jamaica dominating the track events? Did the boat  put down descendants who had a greater proclivity for this? Look nah do some research nah!!!!

Do some research nah; yuh go see that the year Crawfie won his gold there was much anticipated talk of a match up with him and  a Russian sprinter that was tearing up the scene but was not able to compete due to a boycott.

The world marveled at Russian sprinter Valery Borzov in 1972 as we do Bolt today!!!!

It is too easy to  attribute the notion of 'race'   to accomplishments.
 Check this out:
http://www.kaieteurnews.com/?p=4791
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 11:59:39 AM by AB.Trini »

Offline Dutty

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2008, 08:43:41 AM »
Nurture IMO

seems like your very first question answered your last
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Offline Pur_Trini

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2008, 08:49:36 AM »
I do ah google and find this:

http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/olympics_2.htm

Angier’s Wager and the Olympics

By Steve Sailer


Natalie Angier recently wrote a major article in The New York Times proving that the races don't really differ genetically. [http://www.vdare.com/sailer_times.htm]

Although watching the Olympic track & field competition is guaranteed to shake your faith in Ms. Angier, just repeat to yourself, "Who am I going to believe: The Newspaper of Record or my lying eyes?"

So, for all of you who trust the Times utterly, maybe you should stop reading here. Why don't you go check the TV to make sure you're not missing West Wing? Bye-bye!

Okay, now that we've shed all the PC dweebs, let's get down to the facts. The men's 100-meter dash might be the world's most widely contested sporting event. Although the majority of humans never even try most sports, practically every boy on earth soon finds out whether he has any talent for sprinting. Back in 1896 the Olympic men's 100m final, the race to determine The Fastest Man on Earth, started out as an all-white affair. Increasing equality of opportunity, however, lead to increasing equality of results. By the 1932 Olympics, the six finalists consisted of three whites, two blacks, and an East Asian.

Then, however, equality of opportunity kept on growing and equality of results ... well, vanished. This year, for the fifth consecutive Olympics, the eight men who reached the finals of the Olympic 100m were all of predominantly West African origin. They came from the U.S., Britain, Jamaica, Ghana, Barbados, Trinidad, even St. Kitt's & Nevis, wherever that is. But they were all black.

People of primarily West African descent constitute roughly 7.5% of the world's population. But, beginning with the 1984 Games, forty men have made it to the Olympic finals - and all 40 have been blacks from West Africa or its Diaspora. What is the likelihood of this happening by chance? Here is the probability:

0.0000000[...]000000001

That's a "one" with 44 "zeroes" in front of it.

Ms. Angier might reply that discrimination keeps a black youth out of more desirable professions such as engineering or accounting, forcing him to become the World's Fastest Man and endure all that adulation from Swedish track fans.

But why aren't the races equal at the different races? In other words, why do blacks of West African descent specialize in the sprints rather than other lengths? Why do they rule from 100m to 400m, are competitive at 800m, marginal at 1500m, and then disappear at the longer races?

And if genes don't differ, just social environment, why don't poor blacks end up in the most grueling events? Instead, in America whites and Mexican-Americans dominate the distance events, which require endless roadwork. In contrast, African-Americans monopolize the sprints, which call for the shortest workweek of any major sport.

For example, while preparing to win four gold medals in the Los Angeles Olympics, Carl Lewis worked out an average of eight hours per week (not per day - per week!) Nor does poverty explain the career of the 1996 Olympic 100m gold medallist, the Jamaican-born Canadian Donovan Bailey, who didn't get serious about sprinting until he'd made so much money as a stockbroker that he'd already bought himself a house and a Porsche - for cash.

As tennis great Arthur Ashe observed, "Fast runners are born, not made."

Many years ago, George Orwell warned, "To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle." Throughout the Olympics, the truth about racial differences will be right in front of your nose.

[Steve Sailer [email him] is founder of the Human Biodiversity Institute and movie critic for The American Conservative. His website www.iSteve.blogspot.com features his daily blog.]

September 27, 2000
.........and may God bless our Nation.

Offline daryn

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2008, 09:03:25 AM »
a couple things I've read on the subject below



from slate.com:

Jamaicans dominated the Olympic 100-meter sprint this weekend, with Usain Bolt setting a world record and his teammates taking all three medals in the women's event.  Jamaica is a poor, tiny nation about half the size of New Jersey. What makes its people such champion sprinters?

A combination of nature and nurture. Runners of West African descent—which includes Jamaicans as well as most African-Americans—seem to be built for speed: In 2004, they held all but five of the 500 best times in the 100-meter dash. (East Africans, such as Kenyans and Ethiopians, rule the long-distance field.) Several biological factors may be coming into play here. One study conducted in Quebec in the 1980s found that black West African students had significantly higher amounts of "fast-twitch" muscle fibers—the kind that are responsible for short, explosive bursts of action—than white French Canadians did. (So far, there is no evidence that even extensive training can turn slow-twitch muscles into fast-twitch ones, though moving in the other direction is possible.)

continued here



something written by Malcolm Gladwell in 1997:

The education of any athlete begins, in part, with an education in the racial taxonomy of his chosen sport-in the subtle, unwritten rules about what whites are supposed to be good at and what blacks are supposed to be good at. In football, whites play quarterback and blacks play running back; in baseball whites pitch and blacks play the outfield. I grew up in Canada, where my brother Geoffrey and I ran high-school track, and in Canada the rule of running was that anything under the quarter-mile belonged to the West Indians. This didn't mean that white people didn't run the sprints. But the expectation was that they would never win, and, sure enough, they rarely did. There was just a handful of West Indian immigrants in Ontario at that point-clustered in and around Toronto-but they owned Canadian sprinting, setting up under the stands at every major championship, cranking up the reggae on their boom boxes, and then humiliating everyone else on the track. My brother and I weren't from Toronto, so we weren't part of that scene. But our West Indian heritage meant that we got to share in the swagger. Geoffrey was a magnificent runner, with powerful legs and a barrel chest, and when he was warming up he used to do that exaggerated, slow-motion jog that the white guys would try to do and never quite pull off. I was a miler, which was a little outside the West Indian range. But, the way I figured it, the rules meant that no one should ever outkick me over the final two hundred metres of any race. And in the golden summer of my fourteenth year, when my running career prematurely peaked, no one ever did.

continued here (long article)



Offline behind-de-bridge

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2008, 09:40:38 AM »
Nurture IMO

seems like your very first question answered your last

If sprinting is nuture, is it the same for the middle and long distances? How come no one seem able to live with the east and north africans in the longer distances?

How come there are world class long distance runners of west african descent, or no good sprinters of north and east african descent?

Offline Socafan

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2008, 11:55:38 AM »
Nurture IMO

seems like your very first question answered your last

If sprinting is nuture, is it the same for the middle and long distances? How come no one seem able to live with the east and north africans in the longer distances?

How come there are world class long distance runners of west african descent, or no good sprinters of north and east african descent?

I can tell you for at least the Kenyans, this is a matter of nurture. It has been a topic of discussion from since them start dominating. From little children, these people running to school up in the hills miles to and from home. Naturally, dominating in distance running at sea level has become for them nothing more than something they literally trained their whole lives for. I just talking from some articles I read on them before. Maybe for the Ethiopians is the same thing.

As to why there are no outstanding track athletes from West Africa itself, there is probably no good track culture developed there as yet, and nothing in the culture of the people similar to the Kenyan experience, to make them have a "natural" inclination to blaze down the track, or run miles faster than average.

Personally, just from observation, it would appear to be race, but when you look deeper, CULTURE, is what really motivates humanity.
Two islands are better than one.

Offline palos

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2008, 12:21:59 PM »
When was the last time a white man made the 100m final in the olympics or worlds?

Is sprinting about nature or nuture?

1 - August 2008.  Yuh REALLY tink de chemist is a black man?  ;D

2 - In today's world, it's neither.  It's about CHEMISTRY.... 8)
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline elan

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2008, 12:31:40 PM »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline KND2

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2008, 11:51:32 AM »
Genetics give you the key, Training methods open the door.

The teams that win the medals; Canada/jamaica/usa Trinidad over the years have all had the best training.

What Jamaica did this time is remakable because they trained at home versus in North america. But the training methods were based on the american system.

The added competition of having other top men to train against is also a factor.

Bolt and powell both push themself to get better, The mere fact that is pressure to qualify out of the jamaica qualifiers is pressure enough.


Offline dombasil

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2008, 03:41:39 PM »


Do some research nah; yuh go see that the year Crawfie won his gold there was much anticipated talk of a match up with him and  a Russian sprinter that was tearing up the scene but was not able to compete due to a boycott.

The world marveled at Russian sprinter Valery Borzov in 1972 as we do Bolt today!!!!

There was no boycott in 76. Crawfie beat him in 76.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2008, 05:16:06 PM »
Valery was great in 72 but Bolt is out of this word. No comparison.

Offline behind-de-bridge

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2008, 11:32:58 AM »
The reality is every single track event (men and women) has been won by someone 'african'. The 'west africans' won the sprints and the north and east africans won the distance events. At some point someone will discuss this in public.

Offline Dutty

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Re: Race and sprinting
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2008, 02:29:36 PM »
The reality is every single track event (men and women) has been won by someone 'african'. The 'west africans' won the sprints and the north and east africans won the distance events. At some point someone will discuss this in public.

Interesting timing on your question

This article was front page of the star this morning...mih mind run on yuh post one time

http://olympics.thestar.com/2008/article/484143

Why Jamaica rules in track
Surprisingly, nurture is winning over nature to explain track prowess

August 23, 2008
Comments on this story (12)

Garth Woolsey

Joseph Hall

STAFF REPORTERS

As the Jamaican men's sprint relay team sped away from the field in yesterday's 4x100m Olympic final – completing a near sweep of the sprint medals for the tiny Caribbean country – they also left behind a big question: How could such a small country produce the fastest runners on the planet?

As of February, athletes of West African descent, like those four winning Jamaicans, held 494 of the top 500 times in the 100-metre sprint. During the current Games, Jamaicans have won four individual sprint gold medals, led by Usain Bolt's record-setting Beijing blaze.

The island has a population of 2.8 million in a world of 6.6 billion people, so the obvious conclusion to be drawn is that sprinters of West African descent have a genetic advantage based on ethnic ancestry.

Not so fast!

In the nature or nurture debate that has been a subtext of these Games – where podium positions have seemed allotted along racial lines – the nature theory has actually been losing scientific ground.

Indeed, as genome research increasingly opens our DNA to scrutiny, some sports scientists say it is becoming harder and harder to find any genetic connection between race and prowess in a specific sport.

"There is no genetic evidence to date," argues University of Glasgow sports scientist Yannis Pitsiladis.

"That is not to say genes are not important, but there are no race-exclusive genes to explain this phenomenon," says Pitsiladis, who has made a study of East African athletes and their decades-old domination of long-distance running.

Pitsiladis says ample studies have tried to pin down a racial link to athletic excellence. But, he says, there is no more evidence for this connection than there is for one between ethnicity and intelligence.

"If I had a million dollars I would resolve this issue for good," he said in an email interview. "I'd put the stereotypical view of the natural black athlete (or indeed the intellectually superior white) to rest."

University of Toronto exercise researcher Scott Thomas says that, all the Olympian evidence aside, the debate is still open about race and sports and that the ethno-genetic theory has been losing ground.

"It's looking like there is some genetic component to performance, but it's not race linked," says Thomas, an expert in biomechanics.

For example, Thomas says, there is a "tremendous variety" in the genotypes found in Ethiopian and Kenyan populations, which produce the top distance runners.

And this same genetic variety, he says, "overlaps with varieties we find in other places."

So if the overwhelming empirical evidence of race and sports excellence is not based on genetics, then how to account for West African sprint dominance, East African marathon supremacy or Caucasian prowess in the pool?

Think geography, says University of Western Ontario biomechanics expert Volker Nolte.

He says that lacking a genomic explanation, standbys like the altitude, terrain and cultural environments where athletes were raised and trained are nudging their way back to the scientific forefront.

Look, for example, at Kenyan runners like Martin Lel, who is a favourite to win tomorrow's marathon.

"These people, their high performance centre is in high altitude in Kenya," says Nolte.

Living and training at high altitudes, where the air is thinner, forces the body to produce more oxygen-carrying red blood cells to feed straining muscles, Nolte says.

For the Kenyans, this natural form of "blood doping" is accompanied by a lifelong culture that both promotes – through such things as long-distance runs to school – and values distance running.

The same cultural and geographic explanations may hold true for the sprints and the dominant West Africans, raised and trained within the Caribbean culture.

"Environment is also a social environment," Nolte says. "Here it's an environment that says, `We are terrific sprinters so let's have a system where lots of kids participate, we identify good ones and they're celebrated and they continue on with that.'"

In the nature vs. nurture debate, however, others give the former the inside track on performance.

The theme was explored in a book by American author Jon Entine, first published in 2000 and recently reissued – Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid To Talk About It.

"All the articles coming out now mention the unchallenged understanding that genetics plays a significant role in shaping body types," Entine told the Star in a telephone interview from Chicago this week.

"And, athletes of West African ancestry definitely have an edge in the sprints and certain other sports in which quick-burst running and jumping are key. ... We're all born different and we're born different by patterns. Different populations around the world have evolved facing different kinds of environmental and cultural challenges that have shaped how they develop."

Entine broke down some of the statistical evidence in an article published this past February.

"Genetically based, anatomical differences help explain why athletes of primarily West African ancestry hold 97 per cent of top sprint times," he wrote, "including 494 of the top 500 100-metre times, yet are not very good at endurance sports, which requires a much different physiology.

"The body type of whites falls in between West African descended and East African athletes. They have more natural upper-body strength, which contributes to their domination of weightlifting, field events such as the shot put and hammer (whites hold 46 of the top 50 throws), and the offensive line in football. Where flexibility is key, East Asians shine, such as in diving and some skating and gymnastic events."

Recent reports have cited unpublished research being done by the University of West Indies in collaboration with the U.K.'s Glasgow University, suggesting, according to Britain's Daily Mail, "fast men have a special component called Actinen A in their fast twitch muscles, which determine whether humans are sprinters or plodders."

Entine said "that's not new," adding many genetic factors – not only the one cited – can determine an athlete's potential makeup.

"There's a lot of serendipity, pure luck, at work here with the confluence of so many Jamaican runners (sprinters) right now. At future Olympics you're going to see runners distributed through people of West African ancestry, distributed through different populations whether it's other Caribbean communities or the U.S. or Canada, France, Britain, whatever. Again, it's serendipity you see such a high concentration of Jamaicans."

In his book, Taboo, Entine writes: "The evidence speaks for itself. Humans are different. No amount of rhetoric, however well motivated, can undermine the intriguing kaleidoscope of humanity. It's time to acknowledge and even celebrate the obvious: It's neither racist nor a myth to say that 'white men can't jump.' "

Entine said this week that he has faced criticism for his work but less of it as time goes on. "Sports – running in particular – is a perfect laboratory," he writes in Taboo.

"Athletic competition offers a definitiveness that eludes most other aspects of life. The favoured explanation for black athlete success – a dearth of opportunities elsewhere and hard work – just do not suffice to explain the dimensions of this expanding monopoly. The decisive variable cannot be found in modern culture but in our genes – the inherent difference between populations shaped by thousands of years of evolution.

"This is, of course, dangerous territory. Fascination about black physicality, and black anger about being caricatured as a lesser human being, have been part of the dark side of the American dialogue on race for more than a century."

Australian researcher Daniel MacArthur argues there may be a rush to oversimplify as science continues to work the genetic frontiers. MacArthur has done extensive research on Actinen A, more accurately termed ACTN3. He gives credit to nurture, as well as nature.

"The ACTN3-centred argument ... dismisses the importance of Jamaica's impressive investment in the infrastructure and training system required to identify and nurture elite track athletes, the effects of a culture that idolizes local track heroes, and the powerful desire of young Jamaicans to use athletic success to lift themselves and their families out of poverty."

Of course elite athletes are genetically blessed, all experts agree.

This is especially true in the amount and distribution of the "twitch" fibres that make up the human muscle mass.

Human muscle tissue comes in two varieties: "fast twitch" or white fibres that account for speed and power, and "slow twitch" or red fibres that fuel endurance.

Laid down in the distant past – when humans were hunters, gatherers and often themselves hunted – the genetic blueprint would dictate a ratio of about 60 per cent slow twitch and 40 fast twitch in the average musculature, Nolte says.

"We needed red twitch fibres, 100,000 years ago, to give us the ability to walk long, long distances from one berry area to another one," says Nolte, who coached the men's coxless fours rowing team to an Olympic silver in 1996.

"And we also needed the fast twitch fibres because you either had to run away from an animal or get after it to catch it."

In elite runners, however, the distribution is genetically skewed, Nolte says, with sprinters possessing as much as 50 or 60 per cent fast twitch fibres and marathoners an even greater preponderance of the slow twitch variety.

From this genetic base, a combination of innate talent, cultural and physical environment and, most importantly training, will determine an athlete's position on the podium, Nolte says. "You find white guys with lots of fast twitch fibres and you'll find also white guys who can run a long time."

It's ultimately training, Nolte says, that will push an elite athlete to the top. "Yes you need the talent, no doubt about it, body size, muscle fibre composition and such things.

"But you also need the training environment and only these together makes outstanding athletes."



ah beginning to wonder if Liburd is the only journalist lurker to read this board  ;)
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