Was Point Fortin Civic Centre the best?

[football king]

this club was good but sorry i can't put them ahead of defence force.

[jai john]

I would put ASL as the best I have seen...their reputation included victories against national teams like Cuba  amd club teams like Arsenal  They played some of the best teams in the world. From what i heard during the civic centre era ..Point was good but in those days a T&T squad would collect double figures against any visiting Brazilian ship side...
I will put the defence force as a close second ..those two were great rivals in the premier league run by arthur suite ..with ASL slightly ahead on results.

[Coop's]

I would put ASL as the best I have seen...their reputation included victories against national teams like Cuba  amd club teams like Arsenal  They played some of the best teams in the world. From what i heard during the civic centre era ..Point was good but in those days a T&T squad would collect double figures against any visiting Brazilian ship side...
I will put the defence force as a close second ..those two were great rivals in the premier league run by arthur suite ..with ASL slightly ahead on results.

       I could understand your reasoning for the claims you have made about ASL and they are justified,how many times has ASL ever played in the CONCACAF club championships?what have they accomplish to proove they were a top club in the region?the clubs or countries they played against was anything at stake?   

[scooby]

nachilus and coop to answer the question about ballers playing against in the 70`s ball players did not play against point fortin unless it was in the fA cup because as I recollect ball players was in the 3 rd division for the better part of the 70`s , one ball players product played coops Anthony Delpeche he was one best sweepers at one time but he was also one of the most under-rated, also Garfield Desilva was barataria ball players product

[100% Barataria]

nachilus and coop to answer the question about ballers playing against in the 70`s ball players did not play against point fortin unless it was in the fA cup because as I recollect ball players was in the 3 rd division for the better part of the 70`s , one ball players product played coops Anthony Delpeche he was one best sweepers at one time but he was also one of the most under-rated, also Garfield Desilva was barataria ball players product

Thanks Scooby, men in dey 40s/50s/60s does call meh young boy, dem under 30 does call meh ole man, so de names yuh mentioin I was not familiar, but nice to see nat'l quality ballers was produced by BBP before Noel...

[Deeks]

I have to agree with Coops that DF was the best club TT has produced by just looking at there record. They have proven themselves in regional football. They reach the final twice. Winning one. ASl was very good,  even better than DF in that short period when they existed. They played a lot of big teams in exhibition games but I can't recall their record of success in Concacaf. For some reason TT clubs tend to look down the concacaf club competition.The reality is that the concacaf is not an easy competition as some of  us may want to think. Mexico and a couple of CA clubs dominate.  Only other Carib teams to win were from Suriname and Haiti. If DF weren,t the best, they were by far the most consistent club.

[jai john]

I would put ASL as the best I have seen...their reputation included victories against national teams like Cuba  amd club teams like Arsenal  They played some of the best teams in the world. From what i heard during the civic centre era ..Point was good but in those days a T&T squad would collect double figures against any visiting Brazilian ship side...
I will put the defence force as a close second ..those two were great rivals in the premier league run by arthur suite ..with ASL slightly ahead on results.

       I could understand your reasoning for the claims you have made about ASL and they are justified,how many times has ASL ever played in the CONCACAF club championships?what have they accomplish to proove they were a top club in the region?the clubs or countries they played against was anything at stake?   

Coops like you forgetting yuh history man ..... ASL was playing in a rebel league which opposed the TTFA run league ( Warner league ) ..Suite named his league Premier with the motto Premier is progress. He had as sidekicks Ken Butcher and Alvin Corneal. ASL could not therefore represent T&T as they were banned by Warner as a rebel league side. Later they came on board when Suite was sold out by his friends .....
Asl therefore brought top teams from South America and the USA to prove their quality.
I am talking about football at a very high level against world class opposition .... Socrates, Falcao graced our shores in their prime ...Ron scored a hattrick aginst Pat Jennings and Arsenal etc. Those who saw the premier league might add a few tidbits ...ASL had national players on their bench.
William santa Rosa had trinidadians seeing the best in our local players ..... they had the best players available and a brazilian coach who knew how to get the best out of them.
I remember crowds turning out to see the premier league in PSA... Ron, Sammy, Leroy Spann, Twinkle troes , Stuart charles, Goat , Gally etc all had a tush in dat league ...even Jai take ah ting wid ah east club !

[Deeks]

Jai-John,
               Unfortunately I never seen ASL played.. What I heard from everybody,  ASL was it. I ain't doubting that. The schism between jack and Authur Suite did not help in terms of them playing in Concacaf. I would have like to see  how they would have matched up against Chivas, Pumas, Alajuela(CR) and them Honduran teams. It is just unfortuate.

[Coop's]

I would put ASL as the best I have seen...their reputation included victories against national teams like Cuba  amd club teams like Arsenal  They played some of the best teams in the world. From what i heard during the civic centre era ..Point was good but in those days a T&T squad would collect double figures against any visiting Brazilian ship side...
I will put the defence force as a close second ..those two were great rivals in the premier league run by arthur suite ..with ASL slightly ahead on results.

       I could understand your reasoning for the claims you have made about ASL and they are justified,how many times has ASL ever played in the CONCACAF club championships?what have they accomplish to proove they were a top club in the region?the clubs or countries they played against was anything at stake?   

Coops like you forgetting yuh history man ..... ASL was playing in a rebel league which opposed the TTFA run league ( Warner league ) ..Suite named his league Premier with the motto Premier is progress. He had as sidekicks Ken Butcher and Alvin Corneal. ASL could not therefore represent T&T as they were banned by Warner as a rebel league side. Later they came on board when Suite was sold out by his friends .....
Asl therefore brought top teams from South America and the USA to prove their quality.
I am talking about football at a very high level against world class opposition .... Socrates, Falcao graced our shores in their prime ...Ron scored a hattrick aginst Pat Jennings and Arsenal etc. Those who saw the premier league might add a few tidbits ...ASL had national players on their bench.
William santa Rosa had trinidadians seeing the best in our local players ..... they had the best players available and a brazilian coach who knew how to get the best out of them.
I remember crowds turning out to see the premier league in PSA... Ron, Sammy, Leroy Spann, Twinkle troes , Stuart charles, Goat , Gally etc all had a tush in dat league ...even Jai take ah ting wid ah east club !

       Jai john you are correct,you just took a post off my hand,i was just about to post that same history when i read your post ,you are right on with your recollection of how things were,what i still trying to remember was how DF and Police was able to play in CONCACAF and they all played in the same league,even ECM Mowtown who i coached played in the FA final and were runners up in the league on a couple occasions.I eh really forget is just that it was not my time,i was coaching during that period,Defence Force had a problem with me coaching a team against them.    

[jai john]

I would put ASL as the best I have seen...their reputation included victories against national teams like Cuba  amd club teams like Arsenal  They played some of the best teams in the world. From what i heard during the civic centre era ..Point was good but in those days a T&T squad would collect double figures against any visiting Brazilian ship side...
I will put the defence force as a close second ..those two were great rivals in the premier league run by arthur suite ..with ASL slightly ahead on results.

       I could understand your reasoning for the claims you have made about ASL and they are justified,how many times has ASL ever played in the CONCACAF club championships?what have they accomplish to proove they were a top club in the region?the clubs or countries they played against was anything at stake?   

Coops like you forgetting yuh history man ..... ASL was playing in a rebel league which opposed the TTFA run league ( Warner league ) ..Suite named his league Premier with the motto Premier is progress. He had as sidekicks Ken Butcher and Alvin Corneal. ASL could not therefore represent T&T as they were banned by Warner as a rebel league side. Later they came on board when Suite was sold out by his friends .....
Asl therefore brought top teams from South America and the USA to prove their quality.
I am talking about football at a very high level against world class opposition .... Socrates, Falcao graced our shores in their prime ...Ron scored a hattrick aginst Pat Jennings and Arsenal etc. Those who saw the premier league might add a few tidbits ...ASL had national players on their bench.
William santa Rosa had trinidadians seeing the best in our local players ..... they had the best players available and a brazilian coach who knew how to get the best out of them.
I remember crowds turning out to see the premier league in PSA... Ron, Sammy, Leroy Spann, Twinkle troes , Stuart charles, Goat , Gally etc all had a tush in dat league ...even Jai take ah ting wid ah east club !

        Jai john you are correct,you just took a post off my hand,i was just about to post that same history when i read your post ,you are right on with your recollection of how things were,what i still trying to remember was how DF and Police was able to play in CONCACAF and they all played in the same league,even ECM Mowtown who i coached played in the FA final and were runners up in the league on a couple occasions.I eh really forget is just that it was not my time,i was coaching during that period,Defence Force had a problem with me coaching a team against them.     

Well defence force wad ordered back to the TTFA at some point ...Jack pulled the strings ...you could not have the army or police teams in a rebel league could you ? the league was short lived but the football was of a high standard as I am sure you know. This is not to take away from anything Point did but it showed what was possible when footballers were treated right.
Some of the players of those times will always remain in the annals of T&T.
I still rememeber the ASL team being applauded by the crowd for a play they made ....no goal just a play .... there were  lots of oooos and aahhss when stuart charles led his team on the field. Imagine locals were gracing the same pitch as their footballing heroes from all parts of the world.... locally a defence force /ASL game had standing room only !

[Big Magician]

I remember begging my older cousin cause he had a car...to take me to see them Premier matches...and then sometimes my frien fater will take us also..( south boys nah)...reall exciting football...ASL, essex, Sando strikers.....good days..

allyuh know Aurthur Suite marry Connie Chung   ( sshh tallman)

[FF]

I remember begging my older cousin cause he had a car...to take me to see them Premier matches...and then sometimes my frien fater will take us also..( south boys nah)...reall exciting football...ASL, essex, Sando strikers.....good days..

allyuh know Aurthur Suite marry Connie Chung   ( sshh tallman)

This like the 3rd or 4th time you come with this joke   

[Big Magician]

ah cyar help it FF

[vb]

ASl did play briefly in the TTFA league from around 82-85.

They dominated the league. If my fading memory serves me correctly, they dominated the league but DF got the better in the FA Cup.

ASL did play a bit in the Concacaf cup but did poorly. Shocking considering the number of national players on their side.

They formed a break away league again in 1985, attracting most of the top players in the country.

I remember as a young fella pp. talking about the games inthe rebel league. That was in the days when communitties had their stars and ppl wanted to come and see the best meet the best from other parts in TT.

I remember seeing BB Players vs Asl in some kind of final. Expected ASL to manners them. But who tell yuh BBP eh give dem a good run. It made me realize that even with their national stars,such as La Fores, B. Wilimas, J. Granville, Spann etc, there were good clubs out there who could give ASL a tussle.

VB

[College]

Can't comment on de 70s, but we cut dey backside many times in de 80s in de mang, so by def. that makes us one of the best in de 80s  , I'd certainly say so since apart from Army and Oilboys, we produced a healthy # of national ballers

     The Civic Centre i'm talking about i don't think Ball Players played in that league at that time,Ball Players came out afterwards,why i'm saying that is because i don't remember ever playing against Ball Players,they were in another league,if Ball Players played Civic Centre it had to be after all those guys were gone.My memory not to good but could you mane some senior national players that Ball Players produced,i already know of Alaby.   

Mid to late 80s Coops, they were in the same league along w/Army, Trintoc, Coffee Giants, Police, etc, several threads ago I had enquired about this.  Anyway, the other nationals (apart from Alibey) spanning a few years include Faustin, Noel, R. Charles (RIP), and others, College could help meh out w/the other names, those are the ones I recall off the top of my head

Yeah, the players dey mention from PFCC was before the time of them players yuh calling from BBP, the only player i could remember who played for BBP and who was kinda close to the time that Coops and them talking bout was Sammy LLewelyn..he take a lil thing with BBP..he was still a handfull but was obviously past his prime

[scooby]

  Re: Was Point Fortin Civic Centre the best?
« Reply #44 on: Today at 05:49:34 PM »   

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Quote from: 100% Barataria on August 23, 2008, 04:17:07 PM
Quote from: Coop's on August 23, 2008, 01:53:26 PM
Quote from: 100% Barataria on August 23, 2008, 11:48:01 AM
Can't comment on de 70s, but we cut dey backside many times in de 80s in de mang, so by def. that makes us one of the best in de 80s  , I'd certainly say so since apart from Army and Oilboys, we produced a healthy # of national ballers

     The Civic Centre i'm talking about i don't think Ball Players played in that league at that time,Ball Players came out afterwards,why i'm saying that is because i don't remember ever playing against Ball Players,they were in another league,if Ball Players played Civic Centre it had to be after all those guys were gone.My memory not to good but could you mane some senior national players that Ball Players produced,i already know of Alaby.   


Mid to late 80s Coops, they were in the same league along w/Army, Trintoc, Coffee Giants, Police, etc, several threads ago I had enquired about this.  Anyway, the other nationals (apart from Alibey) spanning a few years include Faustin, Noel, R. Charles (RIP), and others, College could help meh out w/the other names, those are the ones I recall off the top of my head


Yeah, the players dey mention from PFCC was before the time of them players yuh calling from BBP, the 
I saw sammy and sherif lobo about two sundays ago at a back party in brooklyn they looked fairly good for there age if fact lobo told that his son had a pretty decent game should make an impact on the National team soon

[Pointman]

Fellas who was around at de time. How would you rank the Point Civic Centre team that contained the likes of Steve David, Warren Archibald, Leroy De Leon, Leo Brewster, Wilfred Cave, Alan Cupid, Tony Douglas, Steve Khan, the Murren brothers etc.?

Was that the best or the most entertaining local team you've seen?

How would they have fared against the Defence Force team of the 70s, or ASL of the 80s, or the latter day Jabloteh's and W-Connections?

Talk yuh talk.

They would flickin eat up any team in the Pro League today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pointman]

Yes some might ask what have Civic Centre won for people to rate them as one of the best,i can personally talk about this team because i've against them on many occasions over my career,as a matter of fact the big game in the country baring North/South etc was Defence Force vs Civic Centre,people used to leave all about to go Mahaica Oval for that game,what was good about them was the quality of players they had and the brand of Soccer they played,people always wondered how that part of the country produced such good players i still don't have the answer,although most will agree Defence Force was the best during that era there was a few very good teams Memphis,TECSA,Caroni,Palo Seco,Essex etc etc which made the quality of the games high so it was difficult for everybody.

It's difficult for me to say if Civic Centre was the best,you could have gotten a good game from any of those teams on any night,it's what brought the crowds out,the players/game.I can safely say my best games were against Civic Centre in Mahaica Oval and it was because of who i was playing against,you know your game had to raise.One thing i can say though is that they were a team regardless of what part of the country you from you just had to like them,they were a bunch of good guys,i think they will be in Brooklyn for the Labour Day weekend to play a couple games(old boys).

As a diehard Civic man til I die, I may not be the most objective and yes DF did have Civic number back in those days, but that was a Civic that didn't have DeLeon, David and Archie in their regular squad. Those guys already had professional contracts abroad(USA). They would make an occassional appearance.
Back then Civic had Wlifred Cave, Brewster, the Doughlas bros et al , had Civic have the above mentioned players regularly they would have been unbeatable.

[Pointman]

I have never seen PFCC play football, but I remember in T&F they had some dread sprinters and distance runners. It had a fella called Jimmy Farmer or Jimmy Joseph can't remeber which, but the man was a terror on the track.

Civic was very good in T&F and Basketball as well(ask Harambee )

[Deeks]

Greyhound Dovers wa a good allround sportsteam from Sando also!!!

[100% Barataria]

Can't comment on de 70s, but we cut dey backside many times in de 80s in de mang, so by def. that makes us one of the best in de 80s  , I'd certainly say so since apart from Army and Oilboys, we produced a healthy # of national ballers

     The Civic Centre i'm talking about i don't think Ball Players played in that league at that time,Ball Players came out afterwards,why i'm saying that is because i don't remember ever playing against Ball Players,they were in another league,if Ball Players played Civic Centre it had to be after all those guys were gone.My memory not to good but could you mane some senior national players that Ball Players produced,i already know of Alaby.   

Mid to late 80s Coops, they were in the same league along w/Army, Trintoc, Coffee Giants, Police, etc, several threads ago I had enquired about this.  Anyway, the other nationals (apart from Alibey) spanning a few years include Faustin, Noel, R. Charles (RIP), and others, College could help meh out w/the other names, those are the ones I recall off the top of my head

Yeah, the players dey mention from PFCC was before the time of them players yuh calling from BBP, the only player i could remember who played for BBP and who was kinda close to the time that Coops and them talking bout was Sammy LLewelyn..he take a lil thing with BBP..he was still a handfull but was obviously past his prime

What about Noel College?  In the mid 80s, I believe he was around 35, not sure if he played for BBP all his career but he may have overlapped w/these guys from PFCC, not so?

[berris]

Me eh know it have so much old man on this forum  .Tallman, wham diz ah over 60 thread or wha ?

[Coop's]

Me eh know it have so much old man on this forum  .Tallman, wham diz ah over 60 thread or wha ?

     Berris you have me laughing here but sorry to have to leave you out,Tallman did that on purpose 

[Deeks]

Anybody know the whereabouts of Rudy Howell. He played for Caroni and the national around 73/74(not really sure). He was very quick. He score quite a few goals. Played a couple good games against DF. Coops might remember him.

[Coop's]

Anybody know the whereabouts of Rudy Howell. He played for Caroni and the national around 73/74(not really sure). He was very quick. He score quite a few goals. Played a couple good games against DF. Coops might remember him.

        Yes i know Rudy Howell very well,he was a kind of Wilfred Cave,a bound to score kind of guy,played for Caroni and was on the national team at the same time i played,the last i heard about him he was a Bus driver in NY that was years ago,must say a very good forward.

[Deeks]

Coops,
          I knew you might have the answer. Yes that guy football career was pretty short. He was slim dudeand  was very quick. I played against him once. It was thunder. Thanks man.

[d-pipe]

When I played for Civic, we were still agood team, this was in the 80's, yes we didn't win anything then, but still produced the quality of guys to get a national selection nod. Everyone still used to come out to see the games, especially between Police, Defence Force, Barataria, Trintoc to name a few of the big games. Great days non the less.

[Mango Chow!]

This thread was a sweet read.....make meh pores RAISE! especially:

 

Fellas who was around at de time. How would you rank the Point Civic Centre team that contained the likes of Steve David, Warren Archibald, Leroy De Leon, Leo Brewster, Wilfred Cave, Alan Cupid, Tony Douglas, Steve Khan, the Murren brothers etc.?

Was that the best or the most entertaining local team you've seen?

How would they have fared against the Defence Force team of the 70s, or ASL of the 80s, or the latter day Jabloteh's and W-Connections?

Talk yuh talk.

How yuh go define "most entertainin" sah?  Daz a most subjective criteria.

But to answer you, de "most entertainin" local team I ever see is a tie.

Mucarapo Senior Comprehensive 1978

And De National U 16 team wit Latas & Marcelle dem

and this:

I would put ASL as the best I have seen...their reputation included victories against national teams like Cuba  amd club teams like Arsenal  They played some of the best teams in the world. From what i heard during the civic centre era ..Point was good but in those days a T&T squad would collect double figures against any visiting Brazilian ship side...
I will put the defence force as a close second ..those two were great rivals in the premier league run by arthur suite ..with ASL slightly ahead on results.

       I could understand your reasoning for the claims you have made about ASL and they are justified,how many times has ASL ever played in the CONCACAF club championships?what have they accomplish to proove they were a top club in the region?the clubs or countries they played against was anything at stake?   

Coops like you forgetting yuh history man ..... ASL was playing in a rebel league which opposed the TTFA run league ( Warner league ) ..Suite named his league Premier with the motto Premier is progress. He had as sidekicks Ken Butcher and Alvin Corneal. ASL could not therefore represent T&T as they were banned by Warner as a rebel league side. Later they came on board when Suite was sold out by his friends .....
Asl therefore brought top teams from South America and the USA to prove their quality.
I am talking about football at a very high level against world class opposition .... Socrates, Falcao graced our shores in their prime ...Ron scored a hattrick aginst Pat Jennings and Arsenal etc. Those who saw the premier league might add a few tidbits ...ASL had national players on their bench.
William santa Rosa had trinidadians seeing the best in our local players ..... they had the best players available and a brazilian coach who knew how to get the best out of them.
I remember crowds turning out to see the premier league in PSA... Ron, Sammy, Leroy Spann, Twinkle troes , Stuart charles, Goat , Gally etc all had a tush in dat league ...even Jai take ah ting wid ah east club !

  ....and Sando Tech wasn't bad either!

[Observer]

Chow you real dig up a thred here  Like you feeling to hear some old man talk. VB have all his dates mixed up, by 85 the rebel League was done & enough players were banned. San Fernando Tech after St Benedicts were the best of colleges football and simply dominant. Sorry Errol  Coops Defense Force was  the toughest team in football, they would beat you and beat you up physically. People would be bias as well, but DF also played good football. In the late 60's through the 70's, T&T had many glamour teams. Football at that time was more about individuals & entertainment. Deeks call out a name I long forgot Howell, like Godfrey Harris & Cave he was a penalty box poacher. Dam! I miss those times.

[Deeks]

Coops Defense Force was  the toughest team in football, they would beat you and beat you up physically. People would be bias as well, but DF also played good football.

If ever there was a way I wanted the TT to football be, it was the attacking football of DF. The share  quickness, speed and stamina level are what I would have liked to see the TT team at that time possess. There were people who argued that Df front six could have and should have rep. TT. But remember we did not have Shell cup at the time. That came later. I did not mind the ruggedness of the DF team. If you could survive DF, then you could have handled some of the the rough CONCACAF teams.

As with CC being the best team, nah. What I do know is that they used to get fantatic community support. Home field advantage, meant home field advantage. The old SFL was actually a quasi-pro-league in structure. Home and away meant home and away. All these factoy teams had their own field and they travelled like teams in Euro.  When Shell left, I think CC sarted to decline. The people who took over  apparently did not have close connection with the business people in the Point area. Shell used to subsidies the whole football. That was part of their budget. They also sponsored Invaders steelband. That was good for business. The team played great in their zone and used to win a couple FA and probably one Champion of Champion. When CC came into being, I can't remember them representing TT in Concacaf football. And saying they didn't have Archie and Deleon is no excuse really. They gone. That happen to other clubs. But I played there twice and lost twice. But the atmosphere was always great. CC can still come back. At least they have Mahaica. All they need is Iwer and them people who organize Boro Day to come with a plan for sports in that area. Shell back in town. So prepare allyuh business plan.