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Author Topic: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?  (Read 84123 times)

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Offline Bakes

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2008, 08:08:29 AM »
Bake N Shark,

u obviously in love with your opinions and don't really wish to know what else exists out there.

Let me summarise:

Indians in the PNM, yes I know them too. dey make dey money too - Token Coolies and they know it. Every race oriented party has them. How you think JOhn, Mark and others end up with Panday? I give Manning credit in that he has widened the tokenism as much as he could, to the point where he get buff by party members.

The problem in Fiji has been WELL documented. Yes, the Indians in Fiji have far greater cohesiveness and social economic sway than those in TT. Have you ever been to Fiji. Have you seen how they live? I have.

However, due to their ethnocentric nature, they are loathed by local Fijians, to the point where twice they've had an Indian PM removed forcibly. They then banned Indians from Taking part in democratic elections and running for office. They UN had to step in and as said earlier, the Australians had to literally invade the country a few years ago and save the (Indian) PM.

If for decades your race gets negatively treated in a particular endeavour, it's normal that you would get discouraged. Look at Graeme Rodriguez, he said that in later years, he wondered why he was playing football competitively, when ppl would be making comments about his colour and race at the sidelines and nobody at national training would look at him speak to him or pass him a ball.

Look at Kelvin Ramnath a NY Golden Gloves Champ and undefeated in TT, tell him NOVICES were getting picked before him to represent TT and it's not about race.

Just Cool, sorry to hear about your experiences. I always feel like I need to apologise for such Indians. Some of it is bitterness towards the way the PNM rigg elections towards them back in the days (they found a couple hundred votes for my Grandfather after an election under a bridge, had those votes not been 'lost' we would have had a new Govt. :-)..........some of it is just pure nastiness and racism.

My cousin experienced the same thing from black officers when he tried to join the police force. Every day it was a "coolie dis and a coolie dat." and what coolie want to do in the Police. He eventually left the trainining academy. Perhaps he should've been stronger but easy for me to say.


Bake N Shark maybe somebody should explain to all of these ppl that it's 'prejudice' not racism.

VB







Thanks for the insight on Fiji, never been there...and clearly not as familiar with the situation there as you are.  I knew that Indians in Fiji had a tough lot with racism, concede as much in attempting to cast their experience as being different from Indians in TnT.  But again...Fiji not on my radar so I wasn't intimately aware of the details.

Additionally, maybe in your haste to come tell me about my love for my own opinion you missed where I stated to Fishs' that the discrimination in the Police service may in fact rise to the level of racism.

I can only conclude that you've decided to let your emotions get the better of you...only way to reconcile the fact I tried to clarify your statements to Toussaint, yet you come back with this bullshit talk about me being in love with my opinion to the detriment of others.  You're a fella I've always found to be knowledgeable and rational, but it's becoming clear that yuh feathers get ruffled in dis thread.  Rather than respond in kind I'll just stop where I am and leave yuh tuh go sort out yuhself .

Offline Bakes

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2008, 08:37:51 AM »
Bakes, it's irresponsible to say Indians did not suffer any racism in Trinidad ... regardless of whether segments of Indian society wield(ed) economic power or leverage(d) race in awarding outcomes ...
and while the presence of Indians in the PNM may seem to be signficant, it still does not disrupt or controvert racism in Trinidad as pertains to Indians (i am pondering the 70s for some reason, looking forward)

similarly, vb ... you use the word 'token' too loosely ...

I have never one day lived as an Indian so I obviously can't speak authoritatively on anyone's personal experience.  That said, you say it's irresponsible of me to say that they didn't experience racism... then by all means, help me understand where I am wrong.  My comments aren't being made in nearly the vacuum that I suspect you think they are... but I await your elaboration still.

---------

Just Cool... I wouldn't put all of it on 'rural' or 'country bookie' Indians... I suspect you more mean those from Central (perhaps south as well, i dunno).  I grew up in Valencia and my mother's family is from Toco... other than some minor incidents with some from Grande (primary school in Guaico), I can honestly say that a vast majority of the Indians I interacted with outside my own family were good honest and fair people.  I agree with you though that Indians from the North in general have a much more open attitude.


Filho... respect as always  :beermug:

Offline dtool

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2008, 08:47:25 AM »

As the USA is the Olympic Goal medal winners
...There are a lot of very good Black players in the pool ...

How many black players were on this
team ? How many got run? .... I dont know the answer.

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2008, 09:36:40 AM »
These faulty conclusions does make me wonder: No blacks playing for Argentina they must be a racist country.
No Native Americans playing for USA or Canada these countries  must be manifesting their racist tendencies...lawd..... logic logic gone through the window.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2008, 11:09:44 AM »

Black Population
Colombia- 10.6 % of 43.6 million


Honduras- 2 % of 7,483,763


Costa Rica-3 % of 4,133,884 (I not so sure about this one)

The coach is also black.

Ecuador - 5 % of 13,755,680


Uruguay 9.1 % of 3,477,778 (Historically the best small football country in the World)

Uruguay usually has a few black players in their team. I can't even find Diogo in this photo.

Venezuela- Seems like the figures unclear for them


Brazil -38.5 % of 190 million

During the last WC

Paraguay - Estimated 63,000 of 6,158,000

I've never see a black player on this side.

Peru- Unclear stats but less than 2 % of 28 million


Argentina- Estimated 52,000 of 40 million
I won't even bother to put a picture.

Just to touch on the situation at home. I for one would like to see more indian Trinis adopt football as a career. Go to a Pro League game and you will find it difficult to pick out an indian player on the field. There are a few in the Super League and nothing to speak about especially when indians make up 40 % of the total population of T&T. I not buying that shit some men does talk about indians skinny and weak so they inferior to blacks in football. And I definitely don't buy that indians don't play football because of discrimination.  If indians actually chose to play football at a competitive professional level we would see more indians in the pro league and hopefully some good enough to play on national teams (men, women, youth and senior).

Offline Zeppo

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2008, 11:12:31 AM »


No one had a slave population like Brazil... not even the US, so let's leave Brazil out of it.  Argentina's slave population compared favorably with some of her other neighbors though, Chile, Uruguay, Bolivia, Paraguay... so yes, it was more than just cattle ranching on the Pampas. 

There are some other reasons that were touched upon relating to why there aren't that many 'blacks' in Argentina today... and it isn't because they were never brought there.  Your other point is well-noted though (about not witnessing too many while there), so thanks for chiming in  :beermug:

I never said that blacks were never brought there. Just that much fewer were brought there compared to a plantation colony like Brazil. One of the articles that you linked states that African slaves were brought there to work as primarily as domestic servants. But a plantation-based economy would require far greater numbers of slaves.

And I mentioned Brazil because the very first post in this thread asked:

IF slaves worked in all these former colonies in South America, then how come you only see Brazil and Peru with players of African ethnicity?

This poster fails to recognize that Brazil and Argentina developed much differently from each other in terms of agriculture and economics.

As far as Argentina's neighbors are concerned, you don't see too many blacks playing for Chile, Paraguay and Bolivia either, do you? Uruguay is a different story, since their substantial amount of black players is still not indicative of how low of a percentage they make up in the society as a whole.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2008, 11:47:24 AM »
I never said that blacks were never brought there. Just that much fewer were brought there compared to a plantation colony like Brazil. One of the articles that you linked states that African slaves were brought there to work as primarily as domestic servants. But a plantation-based economy would require far greater numbers of slaves.

And I mentioned Brazil because the very first post in this thread asked:

IF slaves worked in all these former colonies in South America, then how come you only see Brazil and Peru with players of African ethnicity?

This poster fails to recognize that Brazil and Argentina developed much differently from each other in terms of agriculture and economics.

As far as Argentina's neighbors are concerned, you don't see too many blacks playing for Chile, Paraguay and Bolivia either, do you? Uruguay is a different story, since their substantial amount of black players is still not indicative of how low of a percentage they make up in the society as a whole.

Key words being too many... however few, they're still more than Argentina has ever had.



Jah Gol... good post.

Offline Blue

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2008, 11:49:30 AM »
I never said that blacks were never brought there. Just that much fewer were brought there compared to a plantation colony like Brazil. One of the articles that you linked states that African slaves were brought there to work as primarily as domestic servants. But a plantation-based economy would require far greater numbers of slaves.

And I mentioned Brazil because the very first post in this thread asked:

IF slaves worked in all these former colonies in South America, then how come you only see Brazil and Peru with players of African ethnicity?

This poster fails to recognize that Brazil and Argentina developed much differently from each other in terms of agriculture and economics.

As far as Argentina's neighbors are concerned, you don't see too many blacks playing for Chile, Paraguay and Bolivia either, do you? Uruguay is a different story, since their substantial amount of black players is still not indicative of how low of a percentage they make up in the society as a whole.

Key words being too many... however few, they're still more than Argentina has ever had.



Jah Gol... good post.

Personally, I doh remember none ever playin 4 Chile, Paraguay or Bolivia. But Wikipedia might prove me wrong, lol.

Anyone in this thread been to Argentina?

Offline Zeppo

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2008, 12:31:07 PM »
The only black player that I can remember for playing for Bolivia was Ramiro Castillo, nicknamed "Chocolatín" (Little Chocolate). He commited suicide over 10 years ago.



As for Paraguay and Chile, I can't recall any. But perhaps Bake n Shark can enlighten us.
"Donovan was excellent. We knew he was a good player, but he really didn't do anything wrong in the whole game and made it difficult for us."
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2008, 12:55:52 PM »

As for Paraguay and Chile, I can't recall any. But perhaps Bake n Shark can enlighten us.

What... you don't think Chilavert looks a little dark?





 ;D

Offline Blue

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2008, 01:05:25 PM »
The only black player that I can remember for playing for Bolivia was Ramiro Castillo, nicknamed "Chocolatín" (Little Chocolate). He commited suicide over 10 years ago.



As for Paraguay and Chile, I can't recall any. But perhaps Bake n Shark can enlighten us.

I guess so  :D

I agree wid A.B. Trini...the Argentine Black population is small and so you can't make a valid connection between there being no Black footballers on the national team and Argentina being racist. While the latter might be true (no idea whether it is or not), statistically you wouldnt expect there to be any black players, given the small population. So, the answer to "Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?" is that there just aren't enough Afro-Argentines for it to be likely. "Is Argentina racist?" is a different topic.

O...and....David Trezeguet. Born in France to Argentine parents. Family moved back there and he grew up in Argentina, native Spanish speaker. Started his professional football career in Argentina. Only moved to France when PSG invited him. He would certainly have been called up to play for Argentina had he not chosen France. So there's your sample of one ;D
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 01:08:19 PM by Ryan »

Offline just cool

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2008, 03:09:49 PM »
The only black player that I can remember for playing for Bolivia was Ramiro Castillo, nicknamed "Chocolatín" (Little Chocolate). He commited suicide over 10 years ago.



As for Paraguay and Chile, I can't recall any. But perhaps Bake n Shark can enlighten us.

I guess so  :D

I agree wid A.B. Trini...the Argentine Black population is small and so you can't make a valid connection between there being no Black footballers on the national team and Argentina being racist. While the latter might be true (no idea whether it is or not), statistically you wouldnt expect there to be any black players, given the small population. So, the answer to "Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?" is that there just aren't enough Afro-Argentines for it to be likely. "Is Argentina racist?" is a different topic.

O...and....David Trezeguet. Born in France to Argentine parents. Family moved back there and he grew up in Argentina, native Spanish speaker. Started his professional football career in Argentina. Only moved to France when PSG invited him. He would certainly have been called up to play for Argentina had he not chosen France. So there's your sample of one ;D
DID YOU BOTHER TO EVEN READ JAH GOL'S POST,or every thing just flew over yuh head! HEK!  the man even went as far to include pictures to intensify his point, and a good post @ that, now you coming with this flawed assumption that they don't have enough blacks to rep the country. stuuueeepppss !
 so 52,000 out of 40 mil ain't ah substantial amount to have @ least one darkey on the team in the history of argentine football ! that is appalling !

tell meh how much blacks it have in germany, but yet still they had ah black ghanian naturalized citizen on their team. poor excuses !!

the countries that never had black representation on their national team. ARGENTINA, SPAIN, MEXICO, ITALY, GREECE. IRELAND. NOT SURE BOUT SCOTLAND, WALES. just to name ah few. i excluded eastern europe BC they never had ah much interaction with black folk, there was little to no blacks living in the eastern block.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline Blue

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2008, 03:28:02 PM »
The only black player that I can remember for playing for Bolivia was Ramiro Castillo, nicknamed "Chocolatín" (Little Chocolate). He commited suicide over 10 years ago.



As for Paraguay and Chile, I can't recall any. But perhaps Bake n Shark can enlighten us.

I guess so  :D

I agree wid A.B. Trini...the Argentine Black population is small and so you can't make a valid connection between there being no Black footballers on the national team and Argentina being racist. While the latter might be true (no idea whether it is or not), statistically you wouldnt expect there to be any black players, given the small population. So, the answer to "Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?" is that there just aren't enough Afro-Argentines for it to be likely. "Is Argentina racist?" is a different topic.

O...and....David Trezeguet. Born in France to Argentine parents. Family moved back there and he grew up in Argentina, native Spanish speaker. Started his professional football career in Argentina. Only moved to France when PSG invited him. He would certainly have been called up to play for Argentina had he not chosen France. So there's your sample of one ;D
DID YOU BOTHER TO EVEN READ JAH GOL'S POST,or every thing just flew over yuh head! HEK!  the man even went as far to include pictures to intensify his point, and a good post @ that, now you coming with this flawed assumption that they don't have enough blacks to rep the country. stuuueeepppss !
 so 52,000 out of 40 mil ain't ah substantial amount to have @ least one darkey on the team in the history of argentine football ! that is appalling !

tell meh how much blacks it have in germany, but yet still they had ah black ghanian naturalized citizen on their team. poor excuses !!

the countries that never had black representation on their national team. ARGENTINA, SPAIN, MEXICO, ITALY, GREECE. IRELAND. NOT SURE BOUT SCOTLAND, WALES. just to name ah few. i excluded eastern europe BC they never had ah much interaction with black folk, there was little to no blacks living in the eastern block.


Jah cool, 52,000 out of 40 mil is not significant. Thats about 1 in 800. I doubt there have been 800 players who've played football for Argentina, but maybe I'm wrong. Definitely less than 2000 though. So u mite expect about 2 blacks throughout history. But, statistically, given that 1:800 ratio, d fact dat dey had no black players is not significant.

Also,

Black internationals from the countries you named (which is completely irrelevant to what I'm trying to say, but I'll correct u anyway  ;))

Scotland = Nigel Quashie (didnt he score against Trinidad?). There are very few native black Scots anyway.
Wales = Robbie Earnshaw and Ryan Giggs and d new fella Nyatanga...they had loads
Spain = Senna
Italy = Ferrari, Liverani
Ireland = Clinton Morrison (coincidentally, one of his parents is Trini), Phill Babb...they had loads

Cant name none from Greece or Mexico, sorry.

And there are definitely way more than blacks in Germany than Argentina..dont know d stats, but I saw plenty blacks there!  :)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 03:38:52 PM by Ryan »

Offline just cool

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2008, 03:46:48 PM »
RYAN , you talking bout bleached out half breed fellas like david trezeget, i talking bout men like ronaldino , zee roberto, pele and so forth.

you talk about germany having more black ppl than argentina, how ironic is that when argentina is right next to the country that have the most black ppl out side of africa.
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline KND2

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2008, 03:57:06 PM »
Diego was a black man I dont care what alyuh say ;D

and Copeland was an Indian who play for trinidad.

copeland really had some negro in him though thanman was big and strong boy :rotfl: :rotfl:


I think the issue has less to do with % of populations and more to do with racism.

May be in Argentina young black kids are not given apportunities to play at top clubs and that is why very few make it through.

Racism exisit in this world. 40 years ago in america the Ncaa had no black basketball players did that have to do with % or natural ability or genetics.

The most obvious reason is Racism!

Offline Blue

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2008, 03:59:21 PM »
RYAN , you talking bout bleached out half breed fellas like david trezeget, i talking bout men like ronaldino , zee roberto, pele and so forth.

you talk about germany having more black ppl than argentina, how ironic is that when argentina is right next to the country that have the most black ppl out side of africa.

I cud c where u coming from, and I not tryin 2say that Argentina isnt racist...I go leave dat for yall to debate cuz I never been dere and I dont know. But at d end of d day, if d black people not there (for whatever reason), they not there. And so they cant represent d country in football. Statistically it seems reasonable that no black people have repped Argentina (and having said that, we all jus guessing anyway, cuz we all jus going by what we see on TV in the last 30 years...for all we know dey cud have had 1 or 2 black fellas gettin a lil sweat back in d 50s or 60s....).

As for Trezeguet not making d grade... being a bleach out half breed myself, I go hadda admit defeat ;D  :beermug:

« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 04:02:41 PM by Ryan »

Offline Quags

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2008, 05:26:38 PM »
RYAN , you talking bout bleached out half breed fellas like david trezeget, i talking bout men like ronaldino , zee roberto, pele and so forth.

you talk about germany having more black ppl than argentina, how ironic is that when argentina is right next to the country that have the most black ppl out side of africa.

I cud c where u coming from, and I not tryin 2say that Argentina isnt racist...I go leave dat for yall to debate cuz I never been dere and I dont know. But at d end of d day, if d black people not there (for whatever reason), they not there. And so they cant represent d country in football. Statistically it seems reasonable that no black people have repped Argentina (and having said that, we all jus guessing anyway, cuz we all jus going by what we see on TV in the last 30 years...for all we know dey cud have had 1 or 2 black fellas gettin a lil sweat back in d 50s or 60s....).

As for Trezeguet not making d grade... being a bleach out half breed myself, I go hadda admit defeat ;D  :beermug:


You realize we saying Argentina did a type of ethic cleansing and kill them out,to dispose of black ppl from they country rite ,daiz why there are not much

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2008, 06:11:47 PM »
JC, as far as Greece ... ah not sure dahis correct ... I might be incorrect but I seem to recall mention of a black Greek player on the national team  ... the guy I have in mind went on to have a political career there ... now it could be that he kicked for Pana or Olim and not for the NT ... buh maybe yuh eh go like him b/c he might be a Trezeguet look alike.

Buh in de meantime ... Greece has a black basketballer  ... hold that fuh now nah :) ... Schortsanitis ... played in Beijing ... I doh know how he manages to get up and down de court
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 08:37:41 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline dinho

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2008, 06:24:38 PM »
JC, as far as Greece ... ah not sure dahis correct ... I might be incorrect but I seem to recall mention of a black Greek player on the national team  ... the guy I have in mind went on to have a political career there ... now it could be that he kicked for Pana or Olim and not for the NT ... buh maybe yuh eh go like him b/c he might be a Trezeguet look alike.

Buh in de meantime ... Greek has a black basketballer  ... hold that fuh now nah :) ... Schortsanitis ... played in Beijing ... I doh know how he manages to get up and down de court

i think greece had ah black fellah in the not too distant past, but i cyah remember for sure..

but seeker, i sense the fellah you referring to who played for panathinaikos is emmanuel olisadebe, but he was not greek, he played for poland.
         

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2008, 06:27:38 PM »
JC, as far as Greece ... ah not sure dahis correct ... I might be incorrect but I seem to recall mention of a black Greek player on the national team  ... the guy I have in mind went on to have a political career there ... now it could be that he kicked for Pana or Olim and not for the NT ... buh maybe yuh eh go like him b/c he might be a Trezeguet look alike.

Buh in de meantime ... Greek has a black basketballer  ... hold that fuh now nah :) ... Schortsanitis ... played in Beijing ... I doh know how he manages to get up and down de court

i think greece had ah black fellah in the not too distant past, but i cyah remember for sure..

but seeker, i sense the fellah you referring to who played for panathinaikos is emmanuel olisadebe, but he was not greek, he played for poland.

come nah man Omar ... yuh insulting meh or wha ;) ... yuh should know ah know better than that ... ah even post bout olisadebe somewhere in de forum files ... is a nex fella

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2008, 06:31:33 PM »
The only black player that I can remember for playing for Bolivia was Ramiro Castillo, nicknamed "Chocolatín" (Little Chocolate). He commited suicide over 10 years ago.



As for Paraguay and Chile, I can't recall any. But perhaps Bake n Shark can enlighten us.

I guess so  :D

I agree wid A.B. Trini...the Argentine Black population is small and so you can't make a valid connection between there being no Black footballers on the national team and Argentina being racist. While the latter might be true (no idea whether it is or not), statistically you wouldnt expect there to be any black players, given the small population. So, the answer to "Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?" is that there just aren't enough Afro-Argentines for it to be likely. "Is Argentina racist?" is a different topic.

O...and....David Trezeguet. Born in France to Argentine parents. Family moved back there and he grew up in Argentina, native Spanish speaker. Started his professional football career in Argentina. Only moved to France when PSG invited him. He would certainly have been called up to play for Argentina had he not chosen France. So there's your sample of one ;D
DID YOU BOTHER TO EVEN READ JAH GOL'S POST,or every thing just flew over yuh head! HEK!  the man even went as far to include pictures to intensify his point, and a good post @ that, now you coming with this flawed assumption that they don't have enough blacks to rep the country. stuuueeepppss !
 so 52,000 out of 40 mil ain't ah substantial amount to have @ least one darkey on the team in the history of argentine football ! that is appalling !

tell meh how much blacks it have in germany, but yet still they had ah black ghanian naturalized citizen on their team. poor excuses !!

the countries that never had black representation on their national team. ARGENTINA, SPAIN, MEXICO, ITALY, GREECE. IRELAND. NOT SURE BOUT SCOTLAND, WALES. just to name ah few. i excluded eastern europe BC they never had ah much interaction with black folk, there was little to no blacks living in the eastern block.


Jah cool, 52,000 out of 40 mil is not significant. Thats about 1 in 800. I doubt there have been 800 players who've played football for Argentina, but maybe I'm wrong. Definitely less than 2000 though. So u mite expect about 2 blacks throughout history. But, statistically, given that 1:800 ratio, d fact dat dey had no black players is not significant.

Also,

Black internationals from the countries you named (which is completely irrelevant to what I'm trying to say, but I'll correct u anyway  ;))

Scotland = Nigel Quashie (didnt he score against Trinidad?). There are very few native black Scots anyway.
Wales = Robbie Earnshaw and Ryan Giggs and d new fella Nyatanga...they had loads
Spain = Senna
Italy = Ferrari, Liverani
Ireland = Clinton Morrison (coincidentally, one of his parents is Trini), Phill Babb...they had loads

Cant name none from Greece or Mexico, sorry.

And there are definitely way more than blacks in Germany than Argentina..dont know d stats, but I saw plenty blacks there!  :)

Naturalized but I suppose he'll do.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2008, 06:34:13 PM »

the countries that never had black representation on their national team. ARGENTINA, SPAIN, MEXICO, ITALY, GREECE. IRELAND. NOT SURE BOUT SCOTLAND, WALES. just to name ah few. i excluded eastern europe BC they never had ah much interaction with black folk, there was little to no blacks living in the eastern block.


Spain- Marco Senna
Mexico- Giovanni Dos Santos (half afro-Brazilian, half Mexican)
Italy- Marco Balotelli (soon to be capped for the full national squad, capped for the U-21 team)
Greece- not sure, but I seem to recall a black player as well
Ireland- Chris Houghton (Spurs), Paul McGrath (Man U.) among others
Scotland and Wales- not too sure, but I believe I've seen black players for both already, particularly Wales.  

Offline Toussaint

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #82 on: September 21, 2008, 06:40:11 PM »


I think the issue has less to do with % of populations and more to do with racism.

May be in Argentina young black kids are not given apportunities to play at top clubs and that is why very few make it through.

The most obvious reason is Racism!

 I am no argentina fan but I do think they keep blacks out of their national team because they're racist. Argentina has black brazilians, colombians, and even 2 Haitians in their national leagues.

In a country where you can go days or even months without seeing a black face, it's quite possible that they have not yet produced a good black player.

Most caribbean countries rarely have white players in their teams and I suspect it's mostly because most Caribbean whites are more interested in sports like tennis, golf, equestrian than football.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 06:42:34 PM by Toussaint »
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #83 on: September 21, 2008, 06:54:04 PM »

As for Paraguay and Chile, I can't recall any. But perhaps Bake n Shark can enlighten us.

What... you don't think Chilavert looks a little dark?





 ;D

Nah fellas! In this current World Cup qualifying series Chile running a black player ...  Jean Beausejour ... had a good showing versus Bolivia ... versus Brazil he came on as a sub and altered the riddim of the game, but well Brazil was ticking and the score was already 2 zip when he came on ... game finished 3 love. Dahis about a week and a half ago. He duss fly a quasi-dread.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #84 on: September 21, 2008, 07:00:28 PM »
RYAN , you talking bout bleached out half breed fellas like david trezeget, i talking bout men like ronaldino , zee roberto, pele and so forth.

you talk about germany having more black ppl than argentina, how ironic is that when argentina is right next to the country that have the most black ppl out side of africa.

I cud c where u coming from, and I not tryin 2say that Argentina isnt racist...I go leave dat for yall to debate cuz I never been dere and I dont know. But at d end of d day, if d black people not there (for whatever reason), they not there. And so they cant represent d country in football. Statistically it seems reasonable that no black people have repped Argentina (and having said that, we all jus guessing anyway, cuz we all jus going by what we see on TV in the last 30 years...for all we know dey cud have had 1 or 2 black fellas gettin a lil sweat back in d 50s or 60s....).

As for Trezeguet not making d grade... being a bleach out half breed myself, I go hadda admit defeat ;D  :beermug:



One benefit of this forum is educational exchange. One downside to the history of transhipment of human cargo is that the acquisition of European names does not readily allow us to distinguish people of African descent by name.

Investigate the names Isabelino Gradin and Juan Delgado. There would be no Pele without them. And these fellas date back decades before the 50s and 60s. Even in the interval there are other black ballers that light up de place in South America. It's a history that's out there partner. Serious thing.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 07:02:39 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2008, 07:36:15 PM »


No one had a slave population like Brazil... not even the US, so let's leave Brazil out of it.  Argentina's slave population compared favorably with some of her other neighbors though, Chile, Uruguay, Bolivia, Paraguay... so yes, it was more than just cattle ranching on the Pampas. 

There are some other reasons that were touched upon relating to why there aren't that many 'blacks' in Argentina today... and it isn't because they were never brought there.  Your other point is well-noted though (about not witnessing too many while there), so thanks for chiming in  :beermug:

I never said that blacks were never brought there. Just that much fewer were brought there compared to a plantation colony like Brazil. One of the articles that you linked states that African slaves were brought there to work as primarily as domestic servants. But a plantation-based economy would require far greater numbers of slaves.

And I mentioned Brazil because the very first post in this thread asked:

IF slaves worked in all these former colonies in South America, then how come you only see Brazil and Peru with players of African ethnicity?

This poster fails to recognize that Brazil and Argentina developed much differently from each other in terms of agriculture and economics.

As far as Argentina's neighbors are concerned, you don't see too many blacks playing for Chile, Paraguay and Bolivia either, do you? Uruguay is a different story, since their substantial amount of black players is still not indicative of how low of a percentage they make up in the society as a whole.

Re your comment in bold ... did you miss the photographic evidence? Only Brazil and Peru? Look, the larger point is that blacks are/were present all across the continent. Despite the various historicities, Argentina's experience as it exists today is in a separate box. 

Excellent post JahG.

Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2008, 08:03:00 PM »
Juan Sebastian Veron, ok, not a full breed (whatever that means), but definitely black
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2008, 08:20:46 PM »
IF slaves worked in all these former colonies in South America, then how come you only see Brazil and Peru with players of African ethnicity? What happened to the slaves in Argentina after slavery was abolished?

If Germany and Italy could have black players in clubs and even for their country why have we never even seen a black Argentine playing for a club?

For those who may be interested like I was, this makes for an enlightening read:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro_Argentine



In all this discussion ah clean forget ah lil exchange ah had with Bakes during de Euro about a black Argentinian player:

http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=37123.msg447551#msg447551

In his autobiography, referring to his debut for Boca, Maradona states:
El Negro Baley, the Talleres goalkeeper, fouled me and gave away a penalty. I took it and scored. Then another. I remember both those goals with enormous warmth; they were my first for Boca and contributed to us beating Talleres 4-1.

(for anybody who into that kinda thing, the debut date was Sunday February 22, 1981)

Offline Zeppo

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #88 on: September 21, 2008, 08:41:18 PM »

O...and....David Trezeguet. Born in France to Argentine parents. Family moved back there and he grew up in Argentina, native Spanish speaker. Started his professional football career in Argentina. Only moved to France when PSG invited him. He would certainly have been called up to play for Argentina had he not chosen France. So there's your sample of one ;D

I have seen both of Trezeguet's parents and neither one of them is black.
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Offline Zeppo

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Re: Ever wonder why they eh have any black or Afro-Argentine ballers?
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2008, 08:55:52 PM »

Nah fellas! In this current World Cup qualifying series Chile running a black player ...  Jean Beausejour ... had a good showing versus Bolivia ... versus Brazil he came on as a sub and altered the riddim of the game, but well Brazil was ticking and the score was already 2 zip when he came on ... game finished 3 love. Dahis about a week and a half ago. He duss fly a quasi-dread.

Beausejour has a Haitian father.

He is also an exception, as Chile's black population is not even 1%.



Re your comment in bold ... did you miss the photographic evidence? Only Brazil and Peru? Look, the larger point is that blacks are/were present all across the continent. Despite the various historicities, Argentina's experience as it exists today is in a separate box. 

You need to go back and re-read my post.

That comment is not mine. I was quoting the question posed by nigelfabien in the very first post of this thread.
"Donovan was excellent. We knew he was a good player, but he really didn't do anything wrong in the whole game and made it difficult for us."
- Xavi

 

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