Bakes..Kicker. Points well taken. The post is not well written, but that can happen when you are in a rush to make a point..as I am now. Anyway..you're taking it a bit literally. I think the topic is full of good information and excellent discussion. What is lacking from the discussion are real-life experiences. Otherwise, I think after while, nothing of real value is added. I am not saying to stop talkng the talk in its entirety, but I meant we should stop at this point as i thought we were starting to beat a dead horse. Plus, as you can see I had an ulterior motive. I was interested to see what people's response would be to the questions I asked and see if there were actually parrallels that can be drawn between T&T and Argentina. My hypothesis...maybe we are not all so different as we'd like to think. Maybe we are. I was curious. And as for most people being ignorant and passing off opinion as fact...i stand by that as it pertains to the subdiscussion as to the actual effect of racism on black footballers' opportunities in Argentina today.
Another example of why I usually try harder to temper my disagreements when it comes to you (whenever we do disagree)... very fair very sensible post.
You make good points in saying that until fresh (and perhaps more authentic perspectives come in we're talking in circles. I understand your clarification and agree with most of it. In fact your posts, and Kicker's and a couple others have made me realize that whether intentional or not I was painting all Argentinians with one broad brush...which is not only unfair, but unsound logic. My issue is with what I perceive as the systematic attempt by successive Argentinian governments, and with (again, what I perceive as) Argentine society's deliberate attempt to whitewash the populace, in this case at the detriment of Afro-Argentines. It is in part due to this perspective that I think it fair to conclude that given the concentrated efforts to sweep them under the rug, it isn't too far a leap to conclude that there may well have been/be efforts to similarly keep them from such high-profile situations as playing for the national team.
The error I make is in presenting my opinion as though all of Argentina is complicit in this, when in fact I forget that many Argentines themselves have suffered under similar oppression at the hands of their governments, and many are simply too otherwise pre-occupied to worry about what's going on with Afro-Argentinos, or to harbor ill will towards them. Similar to the US, given it's past history of pervasive racism... there are many wonderful people that I've had the privilege of knowing here, of different races and different walks in life.
Can't say that I have walked in their shoes, but plenty man does be talking about slavery and were never slaves themselves. Man does be talking about footballers and were never fotballers of any standing themselves.
What I do know is this when Carlos Menem was President, he was asked about Argentinian black population, his reply was "we don't have that problem, Brazil has that problem."
Take a read
http://horte.over-blog.fr/article-22965857.html
Big post Observer... read it with relish from beginning to end. Much of what was described in the first half is a neat synopsis of stuff I've read from other sources over the years... but the second part was all new to me and I really appreciate the candor with which the researchers discussed their experiences with the poll.
One thing I wasn't in total agreement was this
BUENOS AIRES -- Their disappearance is one of Argentina's most enduring mysteries. In 1810, black residents accounted for about 30 percent of the population of Buenos Aires. By 1887, however, their numbers had plummeted to 1.8 percent
They later on seemed to indicate that the population drop can be attributed to miscegenation, but still... 1810-1887 is only 77 yrs, or one generation. I don't know how in the world race-mixing can account for such a precipitous drop in the population in just one generation.
