Soca's "lack of success"

[Trini _2026]

Soca's "lack of success"
 
 
Kevin Lyttle has had an international hit with 'Turn Me on' 
Why has calypso/soca not done well internationally?

One Barbadian artiste believes he has the answer.

John King, a former island calypso king, says it might be the result of a conspiracy among major music labels to keep soca at bay.

Soca, calypso's party sister, has managed a few hits internationally but a real breakthrough has proved elusive.

"Hot Hot Hot" by Arrow is, quite remarkably, still a staple of the international circuit after it was first recorded in 1982.

He can lay claim to putting soca on the international map.

It was 21 years ago that Buster Poindexter's cover version of Arrow's hit carried it into the American charts.   
Machel Mantano is one of soca's more popular and better known performers

In 2000, there was more success with Baha Men's soca-tinged "Who Let the Dogs Out", another cover of Anslem Douglas' Trinidad carnival hit.

Four years later Rupee and Kevin Lyttle also made it to the Billboard Hot 100 with "Tempted to Touch" and "Turn Me On," respectively.

But these are rare forays into the mainstream -- and soca remains without a truly genuine international star.

John King feels the road has been made difficult, deliberately so, by music labels.

He told the Barbados Nation newspaper: "I have tried over the years to get this music to the mainstream American radio stations and all you butt up on is: that the quality of the recording is not good; there is no format that we have that can play it; all sorts of stumbling blocks."

However another soca star, Antigua's Onyan, offers a different view.

He told BBC Caribbean that it's a matter of how to music is marketed: which brand of soca is targeted at specific audiences.



Montserrat-born soca veteran, Arrow, told BBC Caribbean last year that when his 'Hot, Hot, Hit' hit the scene, international labels were willing at that time to embrace soca.

But he said short-sighted producers and promoters in the region resisted over fears they would be shunted aside.

An opportunity was therefore lost, in the Montserratian's view.

Machel Montano, like his fellow Trinidadian David Rudder, is one of the leading lights of the genre.

Machel admits to a dream to see soca become a global musical force.   
Sparrow is the uncrowned king of calypso but his subjects are regarded abroad as a subculture

Billboard reported in August that he had yet to make an impact despite collaborations with Wyclef Jean, Busta Rhymes and Shaggy.

The magazine said he'd signed international deals with Delicious Vinyl and Atlantic and recorded two albums which remain unreleased.

Rupee and Kevin Lyttle are also signed with Atlantic but their careers seem to have stalled somewhat.

Rupee has more than once been forced to deny he has been dropped from the label, amid suggestions that interest may have cooled
 

[Swima]

We try all kinda ting to make this music sell in the US when we miss the whole boat entirely. Where we could have developed our art form and make serious in-roads into the markets of Europe, Africa and Asia, we continue to seek 'cable fame' down here. We continue to draw parallels to what Marley did for reggae without identifying that reggae was huge in Britain long before it became even a mediocre success in the US.

Furthermore, there are many huge artists out there who are big in the world of music who are not big in the US, and they understand that making good music is the goal and the US is usually the last to get on the bus when it comes to discovering talent.

Let's take MIA's success for example. She has been 'trodding' it for years with what would be viewed as a particularly unorthodox style of music. She is British of Sri Lankan heritage... not your usual pop star image... and does not have any particular style. Now she is branded a female hip hop star, has a hit single and had the hook on that hit single sampled by one of hip hop's biggest stars. Why??? She continued to be herself.

One man who's music I have appreciated for a while is Seu Jorge of Brazil. He has had a minor impact in the US contributing to the soundtrack of a low budget movie and playing a supporting role in it. Now mind you he is a big star in Brazil both in music and movies and has performed all over the world, including the highly rated Montrieux (sic) Jazz Festival in Switzerland. Again, he chooses to be himself, and he doesn't even sing in English.

Local artists such as Mugal Patessar, Brother Resistance, David Rudder etc have all performed at many of the big festivals around western europe and the far east. They remain uncompromising in their approach to the music. They may never be MTV/BET stars as now they have passed their due date as far as what young audiences would be naturally attracted to, but I doubt that they would consider their careers as unsuccessful.

So basically what I saying is just make music man... if you want to collab, collab but don't lose your identity. Make people want to collab with you too, don't just be the one looking for it.

And finally, when we make dynamic music that goes beyond wining waving and jamming gyal, we will have a more diverse pool of music to take us beyond the region.

[Jumbie]

Swima.. I've always liked your take on our music.

[morvant]

soca sound successfull to me

[Bakes]

Very good post Swima... particularly like how you closed 

[kounty]

And finally, when we make dynamic music that goes beyond wining waving and jamming gyal, we will have a more diverse pool of music to take us beyond the region.

I was sitting in the car the otherday and this song came on

http://www.actionext.com/names_j/john_denver_lyrics/we_dont_live_here_no_more.html

when I realize 2 things: 1) John denver was a really depressed man
2) Music from trinidad need to have a greater range of emotions than happy.


some lyrics from the song:
 
Make believe your on a boat with no water around.
Picture yourself at a circus, without any clowns.
Pretend that you're on a highway, without any end.
Then empty the ashtray,
Sweep up the floor,
Put a lock on your door.
If somebody calls in the morning,
Just say we don't live here no more.
say we don't live here no more.

[Blue]

u know your a trini wen u spend your whole life fretting about when the rest of the world is going to start liking your music

[Sando prince]

u know your a trini wen u spend your whole life fretting about when the rest of the world is going to start liking your music

[Swima]

u know your a trini wen u spend your whole life fretting about when the rest of the world is going to start liking your music

It ehn that you know Ryan. It's the ability to understand that this is a career and not a hustle. Comparatively speaking, our artists, producers, engineers etc. make less money than most in similar fields around the world. We naturally compare ourselves to those more sucessful and wonder why. But if we were to take it at face value as being music, then we would have to admit that soca has a relatively limited scope... at least popular soca.

[Controversial]

the lack of success is attributed to the lack of marketing and togetherness in the community itself, too much infighting amongst the artists, if someone is better, they try to keep that man down, jamaicans are different, they support eachother more, add to that the lack of variety in the lyrics and releasing material throughout the year instead of just carnival. The soca artists dont make money on selling records, so they tour year round at all the carnivals, if they dont tour, they dont make money, so its a vicious cycle where they are stuck recording on only carnival lyrics. They are now getting out of this and it will help the music.

[palos]

We "love" OUR music seasonally.  Trinbagonians are great music lovers as evidenced by the many different genres of music that we have.....calypso, soca, rapso, chutney, parang, pan, tassa, etc.  Our music is often tied to occasion.

Calypso and Soca are tied to Carnival

Yuh doh hear parang other than at Christmas time

Pan is mainly tied to Carnival

Tassa is fuh Hosay & Phagwa

Chutney is at Carnival but also certain festivals/occasions

It doh mean dat dis music doh get played at other times...because they do..some year round....but the PROFILE is not as prevalent.

Our music is very diverse and perhaps that diversity contributes to the issue of a lack of world wide acceptance that WE would like to see.

I'll tell you though.....a people that's secure in themselves don't need external affirmations to validate who & what they are.  That we're having this discussion may provide some insight into the possibility that we're really not such a confident, secure people.

BTW....excellent post as usual Swima....

[Preacher]

We should not judge ourselves based on what other people are doing.  Easier said than done, I do it all the time.  I used to have the same question about soca and calypso and i came up with 2 maybes.

1. Maybe Calypso was already big.  Wasn't Kitch and Harry B having their day in the soon at one time just at the end of the big band era?  Maybe the world already had it's way with calypso. 

2. I've found that if you're waiting for someone else to celebrate your culture you'll have a long wait.  And if it happens you'll be poor and they'll be rich.  What if the entire Caribbean stopped playing American music on radio? just a thought 

Most well respected artists are respected for their art not their air play.  If you're a real artist that have something to say people will listen. And sometimes they'll listen even if they don't like your music.

For me personally I'm glad that calypso is still organic in some forms.  I enjoy the social and politic commentary of the art.  I look forward to listening to wit and story telling.  Soca to me is total sh*t.  How much time i go wave a rag and blah blah.  And it's gonna get more profane.  I ain't against party tunes cause Calypso have party tunes also.  The issue with Calypso and soca is the same fight Hip Hop having with rap.  Most people that love Hip Hop have a serious problem with rap because they see it as ruining the art form and having negative impact in the culture.  I'm sure the same case could be made for soca.  So I see them ignoring us as a blessing.  Because there is a sophistication with calypso that i''m proud of but I'm not proud of the soca business.  Right now Rap rules but I think we'll get our chance to be exploited soon enough.   

[Deeks]

We must realise that the advent of the Caribbean(TT style) carnivals in NA and the Caribbean has changed Calypso. Soca is party and Carnival music. So these soca artist go from Carnival to Carnival in all the NA cities for the ENTIRE year. Some of them have done extremely well(finacially), some not so well.

Long ago, only Sparrow, Kitchener, Lord Nelson to name a few, use to be the big acts. Now there are endless performers who make their living playing Soca. But nothing can't beat a good witty Kaiso or a good politcal song ponging them politicians. We just have to encourage and support it. Nobody else will.

 It would be nice for these soca artist to extend their range. They should listen Love Zouk and Kizomba(Cape Verde, Angola, Mozambique, Brazil) to get some ideas to improve on their Groovy Soca.

Then there is the usual comparison with JA and their support of their culture. But unlike JA we have different musical genres. Somebody mentioned the seasonal nature of these art forms. Also race plays a factor in our cultural and musical dynamics. 

[johnny_ringo]

IMO Soca's downfall has a few factors
1. People dont understand what the hell we sayin. I remember when Kevin Little's song was getting popular here in NY all dem lil high school skets thought he was sayin "Tamia...tamia"...lol

2. WE (trini people as a whole) are wayyyyy too "small minded". When Machel had his 1st 2 sold out shows in the theater in MSG it was GREAT. Minshall did the costumes . They was the BET special. Press conference & in-store at J&R.....now what does he do the following year? Instead of thinking progressively and trying to either get the actual arena in MSG, or even a better venue they simply had a cheaper, less put together carbon copy of the original shows...and then charged more $ for the tix

3. Marketing $$$$$$$$$$$$....instead of "poppin bottles" in Zen and buying "brands" on Flatbush our soca "stars" need to think about investing in their future. In this day & age i find it an utter shame that almost NONE of these guys have an up to date website (and NO !, myspace does not count). How is it that 2 girls could poop in a cup & MILLIONS of people see it online yet a Bess thing like Destra (who would murder Britney in a singing/dancing/looks competition) cant build a bigger online fan base?

4. DIVERSITY IS THE KEY PEOPLE...Rupee get some shine Tempted to touch, but "jump" was the real soca hit. All this FFFFFFFFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE non-sense these men singing bout might be ok if I muddy and tryin to flex on ah bad ting from lavantil, but who the hell want to listen to somebody like Iwer in their ipod on a Monday morning while going to work?

5. MAYBE...just MAYBE soca music isnt as good as we think it is? I mean hands down Machel have crazy energy on stage but is his or ANY of the current soca "stars" actually making good music??

 

[Deeks]

Johnny-Ringo,
                     I agree with you on some of your points. They don't understand what we saying. So what? We singing in our dialect. That is part and parcel of soca/calypso. I hear popular reggae songs in JA dialect and don't understand most of what they saying, but I does groove to the beat. A substantial amout of Hip-hop lyrics is tata but  again the catchy beat will overcome the lyrics and we will be on the dance floor. That soca is not good enough is disputable. Machel and Ken Little prove that soca artistes can cross-over.Those artist need to diverify their soca music repetoire seriously. The so called groovey soca(love zouk/kizomba) is one way these artistes can change the direction  of soca to make it more marketable to "outsiders"