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Offline Trini _2026

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Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« on: December 08, 2008, 08:46:52 PM »
Wrong team selected
Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
Lasana Liburd (Trinidad Express)



Tuesday, December 9th 2008
 
 
 Two-time Colombia World Cup coach Francisco Maturana on Sunday became the first coach in Trinidad and Tobago's football history who could not get the "Soca Warriors" out of the group phase of a Caribbean Cup tournament.

The Express sought the opinion of several of the country's respected football minds and found a consensus that Maturana's selections were at fault.

"I understand that no two coaches would pick exactly the same team," said W. Connection coach Stuart Charles-Fevrier, "but I just feel there should be more principle and criteria involved in selecting the national team.

"To me the whole selection process has been undermined."

Fevrier was particularly unimpressed with Maturana's midfield, which he felt was "unbalanced" and contributed to the team's poor offensive showing.

He insisted that Connection midfielder Aurtis Whitley was unfit, while free agent Khaleem Hyland, a ball winner while at CLICO San Juan Jabloteh last year, was not suited to a playmaker's role and missed the edge provided by regular competitive football.

"It is the same mistake (Maturana) made with Densill Theobald (against the USA) when he used him in a role he is not suited to and then dropped him," said Fevrier. "Khaleem Hyland is a good player but the player behind the lone striker is supposed to score and set up goals. It is the role of a number 10 and I am surprised that they used him there when (Arnold) Dwarika and (Andre) Toussaint are in the squad.

"I cannot understand why Maturana is not seeing that and Anton (Corneal) is right there and he should know the players."

Clayton Morris, a former national stand-out and vice-president of the Football Players Association of Trinidad and Tobago (FPATT), said he felt underwhelmed when the team headed to Jamaica.

"It is the first time a national team left to play in this competition and I didn't have faith that the team would at least reach to the last four," said Morris, who also coaches the national indoor team. "When I looked at the preparation and the combination of players selected, I was not happy and I didn't think it fair to some players who are at their peak but were not selected."

Morris named the Jabloteh midfield duo of Trent Noel and Marvin Oliver and prolific Defence Force striker Devon Jorsling as the most glaring absences, while he felt that Whitley and bmobile Joe Public defender Seon Power did not do enough to merit selection so soon after lengthy absences due to injury.

Jabloteh coach Terry Fenwick, who again bemoaned the absence of his versatile captain Noel, pointed to the recent call-ups for Wales-based winger Josh Johnson, Joe Public veteran Arnold Dwarika and Lebanon-based Errol McFarlane as supposed evidence of the national team's scattergun selection policy.

"My view is that there is some great talent in Trinidad and Tobago that is being overlooked and particularly from Jabloteh," he said. "And that shows the technical staff are not doing their job and I am not just talking about the coach but also the people around him.

"The preparation and team selection for this competition was awful and for us to be beaten by the likes of Grenada is unacceptable."

United Petrotrin technical director Edgar Vidale, who coached the national team at the 1991 Gold Cup, also scratched his head at sudden surprise call-ups and omissions.

"We are not a country where top-class players drop out of the sky," said Vidale. "By now, he should have a nucleus of players and forget about experimentation. Those who are good enough have been seen.

"Get your ideas on to a nucleus of players and let them practise with it."

The national players generally escaped the flak for the team's early exit.

"This is one time I don't want to lash any particular player," said Morris. "They didn't select themselves so it is the technical staff that has to take the blame... When last can you remember us doing well as a team even going back to the World Cup qualifiers?

"The team hasn't been performing but what has been covering that up is that they were getting results. The writing was on the wall all the time."
 
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Wrong team selected
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2008, 08:48:05 PM »
Clayton Morris hit d nail on d head.
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Offline Babalawo

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Re: Wrong team selected
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2008, 08:55:46 PM »
Clayton Morris hit d nail on d head.
I like Fevrier's view better. Hyland is not a creative midfielder. He's more Birchall type as defensive ball winner. Toussaint and Dwarika better in that 'Latapy' position behind the striker

Offline kicker

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2008, 09:00:42 PM »
I like how Fenwick referred to T&T as "us"...
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2008, 09:02:53 PM »
All d comments spot on but y I went wit JB is because nuff peeps talkin bout winnin record when we playin crap.
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2008, 09:06:03 PM »
I like how Fenwick referred to T&T as "us"...
Yeah , he's been saying that for a while now.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 09:10:51 PM by Jah Gol »

Offline jai john

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2008, 09:16:37 PM »
It is so easy to agree with those who are saying the same thing you are saying ...himself to himself ...why lasana eh ask dem fellas why the standard of the local players so poor ? You go ask fellas who producing substandard raw material what a finished product should look like ? I seeing right ? all yuh know how old Marvin Oliver is ? ( He was on de squad for the first game maturana was in charge for ) ..like man forgetting that Mats started with he or what ? all yuh want more old people on de squad ? Vidale say de coach should not be experimenting by now, fenwick and stuart charles calling for de inclusion of other players ...how come nobody eh pick up on dat ? again ..is because we want to hear what dey sayin !!!
Blind could always lead de blind ....if you eh no where you want to go then any road will take you there !

Offline ChipChipSilver

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2008, 09:20:11 PM »
Good article, buh it too late.  Damage done!
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Offline lefty

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 05:29:19 AM »
It is so easy to agree with those who are saying the same thing you are saying ...himself to himself ...why lasana eh ask dem fellas why the standard of the local players so poor ? You go ask fellas who producing substandard raw material what a finished product should look like ? I seeing right ? all yuh know how old Marvin Oliver is ? ( He was on de squad for the first game maturana was in charge for ) ..like man forgetting that Mats started with he or what ? all yuh want more old people on de squad ? Vidale say de coach should not be experimenting by now, fenwick and stuart charles calling for de inclusion of other players ...how come nobody eh pick up on dat ? again ..is because we want to hear what dey sayin !!!
Blind could always lead de blind ....if you eh no where you want to go then any road will take you there !


regardless of all the aparent self promotion, it is quite clear that there are better local players on offer than what the coach has choosen, I was one who said give him a chance, they looked good against cuba and guatemala den came that US game, and the in explicable decision to send in a team with little or no defensive leadership or leadership of any kind for that matter, d other question though is team selection presently one mans job, then who is it, because whoever that is seem to have no idea or dont care to know the the strengths and weakness of the individual players, the team selection has gone from experimental to a vapse type setup.............dat mc farlaine fella was like a rabbit out a hat ???

another question after all d debate about dwarika did he even play...........didn't care to see d grenada, fell asleep on the bdos win..........and I never ever fall asleep watchin we play before! as for jamaica well.................. :( :( :( :( couldn't watch dat.
 
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Offline spideybuff

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 06:24:29 AM »
Soooo...anybody here remember when Bertille get fired for getting the team to the Semis of the Gold Cup and losing on penalties to Canada?

But this man cah even get us to be one of the top 4 teams in the CFU and he still in a wuk. And ppl still trying to find ways to defend him...

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Offline Fyzoman

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 06:52:04 AM »
Soooo...anybody here remember when Bertille get fired for getting the team to the Semis of the Gold Cup and losing on penalties to Canada?

But this man cah even get us to be one of the top 4 teams in the CFU and he still in a wuk. And ppl still trying to find ways to defend him...




Right! not only dat men starting thread asking de same questions dat all dese threads have covered/still covering ad nauseam......i realize it ha men here who just like talk yes.....not dat he is God-or mightn't have ah hidden agenda-but when ah ex-skipper like JB (among others) calling it how dey (and anybody wid sense) effing see it and men still asking all kinda stupid question and like yuh say Spidey finding ways to defend dis ass......like JB say, "....it's unacceptable". Steups
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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 06:55:51 AM »

He insisted that Connection midfielder Aurtis Whitley was unfit, while free agent Khaleem Hyland, a ball winner while at CLICO San Juan Jabloteh last year, was not suited to a playmaker's role and missed the edge provided by regular competitive football.

"It is the same mistake (Maturana) made with Densill Theobald (against the USA) when he used him in a role he is not suited to and then dropped him," said Fevrier. "Khaleem Hyland is a good player but the player behind the lone striker is supposed to score and set up goals. It is the role of a number 10 and I am surprised that they used him there when (Arnold) Dwarika and (Andre) Toussaint are in the squad.

Eh?? say wha??  ??? I eh see any of these games and apparently is ah good thing I didn't I might have thrown my TV outside at seeing this shyte.....steuppsss...aaaaaah yes all hail the mighty corbeaux   :notworthy:....ent Jai John?

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Offline Boodsy

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 07:08:53 AM »
Soooo...anybody here remember when Bertille get fired for getting the team to the Semis of the Gold Cup and losing on penalties to Canada?

But this man cah even get us to be one of the top 4 teams in the CFU and he still in a wuk. And ppl still trying to find ways to defend him...



nah...we lost that game 1-0...
we missed a penalty

Offline weary1969

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2008, 07:15:45 AM »
Ler me say it again if u cyah take me 2 d GC u get fired it is called Performance Mmgt a 20th not even 21st century mgmt concept. But we know d TTFF is a 18C firm.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline trinbago

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2008, 02:14:12 PM »
Is there any kind of ranking system for players in the PFL so that when a player is consistently ranked high (i.e metrics to prove that he is in form for a period of time as opposed to an opinion) the TTFF needs to give a solid reason as to why they are not selected. This ranking system should exist for all age levels (u23, u17 etc) that particpate in the PFL. It would also serve as an evaluation tool for any new or existing national coach at any level.
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Offline palos

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2008, 02:39:36 PM »
Ler me say it again if u cyah take me 2 d GC u get fired it is called Performance Mmgt a 20th not even 21st century mgmt concept. But we know d TTFF is a 18C firm.

And if u get take to de Hex?
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2008, 02:54:06 PM »
Doh matter if u make a million 4 d company but u loose d company main contract. Fire bun u
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline jai john

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2008, 03:04:23 PM »
[quote autho

I honestly thought that the main contract was getting us to the World cup ? ..I had no idea it was the gold cup ! Guess i was wrong . ..

Offline elan

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2008, 03:11:46 PM »
It is so easy to agree with those who are saying the same thing you are saying ...himself to himself ...why lasana eh ask dem fellas why the standard of the local players so poor ? You go ask fellas who producing substandard raw material what a finished product should look like ? I seeing right ? all yuh know how old Marvin Oliver is ? ( He was on de squad for the first game maturana was in charge for ) ..like man forgetting that Mats started with he or what ? all yuh want more old people on de squad ? Vidale say de coach should not be experimenting by now, fenwick and stuart charles calling for de inclusion of other players ...how come nobody eh pick up on dat ? again ..is because we want to hear what dey sayin !!!
Blind could always lead de blind ....if you eh no where you want to go then any road will take you there !

What you talking about men not trapping is irrelevant, and most of the coaches addressed this issue.

They stated that the players did not pick themselves and as such you cannot really lay blame squarely on the players. How hard is that to understand. If you have a stable of thorough-bred and you pick the donkey out in the pasture, how the hell you could expect the donkey to buss the tape first.

The argument that the players are technically weak is nullified by the fact the coach is the one who pick the team. Get real/
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Offline elan

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2008, 03:17:12 PM »
Ler me say it again if u cyah take me 2 d GC u get fired it is called Performance Mmgt a 20th not even 21st century mgmt concept. But we know d TTFF is a 18C firm.

And if u get take to de Hex?

Since you could argue the above what about this below vvvvvvv


Soooo...anybody here remember when Bertille get fired for getting the team to the Semis of the Gold Cup and losing on penalties to Canada?

But this man cah even get us to be one of the top 4 teams in the CFU and he still in a wuk. And ppl still trying to find ways to defend him...


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline jai john

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2008, 03:18:50 PM »
It is so easy to agree with those who are saying the same thing you are saying ...himself to himself ...why lasana eh ask dem fellas why the standard of the local players so poor ? You go ask fellas who producing substandard raw material what a finished product should look like ? I seeing right ? all yuh know how old Marvin Oliver is ? ( He was on de squad for the first game maturana was in charge for ) ..like man forgetting that Mats started with he or what ? all yuh want more old people on de squad ? Vidale say de coach should not be experimenting by now, fenwick and stuart charles calling for de inclusion of other players ...how come nobody eh pick up on dat ? again ..is because we want to hear what dey sayin !!!
Blind could always lead de blind ....if you eh no where you want to go then any road will take you there !

What you talking about men not trapping is irrelevant, and most of the coaches addressed this issue.

They stated that the players did not pick themselves and as such you cannot really lay blame squarely on the players. How hard is that to understand. If you have a stable of thorough-bred and you pick the donkey out in the pasture, how the hell you could expect the donkey to buss the tape first.

The argument that the players are technically weak is nullified by the fact the coach is the one who pick the team. Get real/


name the players ( thoroughbreds ) we have in our stable that the coach eh pick yet ? When and if you can answer that i am also asking you to consider the fact that the well is dry.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2008, 03:22:55 PM »
So we qualify 4 d hex when d rest of d teams playin each other and we playin Guyana how we reachin d WC.

As 4 d firin of BSC dat was JW mashin up dat side
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Offline elan

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2008, 03:39:11 PM »
It is so easy to agree with those who are saying the same thing you are saying ...himself to himself ...why lasana eh ask dem fellas why the standard of the local players so poor ? You go ask fellas who producing substandard raw material what a finished product should look like ? I seeing right ? all yuh know how old Marvin Oliver is ? ( He was on de squad for the first game maturana was in charge for ) ..like man forgetting that Mats started with he or what ? all yuh want more old people on de squad ? Vidale say de coach should not be experimenting by now, fenwick and stuart charles calling for de inclusion of other players ...how come nobody eh pick up on dat ? again ..is because we want to hear what dey sayin !!!
Blind could always lead de blind ....if you eh no where you want to go then any road will take you there !

 
What you talking about men not trapping is irrelevant, and most of the coaches addressed this issue.

They stated that the players did not pick themselves and as such you cannot really lay blame squarely on the players. How hard is that to understand. If you have a stable of thorough-bred and you pick the donkey out in the pasture, how the hell you could expect the donkey to buss the tape first.

The argument that the players are technically weak is nullified by the fact the coach is the one who pick the team. Get real/


name the players ( thoroughbreds ) we have in our stable that the coach eh pick yet ? When and if you can answer that i am also asking you to consider the fact that the well is dry.


Okay, if we looking to pick local then the stable have to be the PFL, and the top performers were not selected to the team. Now, the top performers may not be true thorough-bred, but they not donkeys cause they did out perform those selected, not to mention Daniel, Hyland, Whitley, Power are without regular competition. I don't have to name the players when the coaches in the PFL are naming the players and the stats show who the players are.
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Offline lefty

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2008, 03:42:10 PM »
It is so easy to agree with those who are saying the same thing you are saying ...himself to himself ...why lasana eh ask dem fellas why the standard of the local players so poor ? You go ask fellas who producing substandard raw material what a finished product should look like ? I seeing right ? all yuh know how old Marvin Oliver is ? ( He was on de squad for the first game maturana was in charge for ) ..like man forgetting that Mats started with he or what ? all yuh want more old people on de squad ? Vidale say de coach should not be experimenting by now, fenwick and stuart charles calling for de inclusion of other players ...how come nobody eh pick up on dat ? again ..is because we want to hear what dey sayin !!!
Blind could always lead de blind ....if you eh no where you want to go then any road will take you there !

 
What you talking about men not trapping is irrelevant, and most of the coaches addressed this issue.

They stated that the players did not pick themselves and as such you cannot really lay blame squarely on the players. How hard is that to understand. If you have a stable of thorough-bred and you pick the donkey out in the pasture, how the hell you could expect the donkey to buss the tape first.

The argument that the players are technically weak is nullified by the fact the coach is the one who pick the team. Get real/


name the players ( thoroughbreds ) we have in our stable that the coach eh pick yet ? When and if you can answer that i am also asking you to consider the fact that the well is dry.


Okay, if we looking to pick local then the stable have to be the PFL, and the top performers were not selected to the team. Now, the top performers may not be true thorough-bred, but they not donkeys cause they did out perform those selected, not to mention Daniel, Hyland, Whitley, Power are without regular competition. I don't have to name the players when the coaches in the PFL are naming the players and the stats show who the players are.

me endorse post 1+
I pity the fool....

Offline FF

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2008, 03:43:37 PM »
I moving like Alberta Trini and reposting my own post...

Is de below reasonable? comments, thoughts? any conclusions?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as I concerned, if i was charged with hiring de national coach.. he would be mandated to:

1. Qualify for de World Cup, the minimum performance accepted would be qualifying for de HEX.

2. Win our regional tournament, the minimum performance accepted would be qualifying for de Gold Cup.

3. Advance to the Gold Cup semis, the minimum performance accepted would be advancing from the group stage

4. Lead the team to at least a top 50 FIFA ranking over a reasonable period of time. (this last one you could probably have leeway with)



But as always there would be mitigating factors. The actual performance on the field, consistent improvement demonstrated throughout the tenure, wins against main rivals, the public opinion, are better options available etc...


This is how it is done worldwide at club and national level... managers are expected to avoid relegation, make a decent cup run, win de title, champions league etc and so on.

Now while Maturana has so far achieved the minimum for Goal no.1, he has failed no.2 outright and as a result no.3 as well. And so far he has not inspired too much confidence that he can achieve any of the rest or even no.2 and no.3 in subsequent years. The public/board is split and disillusioned... I would think that this could be basis to relieve the coach

Thoughts? Are these goals asking too much?
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Offline palos

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2008, 03:46:21 PM »
Doh matter if u make a million 4 d company but u loose d company main contract. Fire bun u

De company main contract is Gold Cup?  ::)
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline weary1969

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2008, 03:50:49 PM »
FF u spot on and in modern org which d TTFF is not dat would b included in his contract. So by he not qualifyin 4 d GC he would know dat is Norman Manley to Miami Int to Bogota. Stuff will b shipped.

Palos I say Yes because by losing d main contract yuh eh likely 2 add 2 d million. So when dem fellas playin each other we playin Guyana. D million and d main contract not mutually exclusive.
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Offline palos

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2008, 03:52:15 PM »
I moving like Alberta Trini and reposting my own post...

Is de below reasonable? comments, thoughts? any conclusions?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as I concerned, if i was charged with hiring de national coach.. he would be mandated to:

1. Qualify for de World Cup, the minimum performance accepted would be qualifying for de HEX.

2. Win our regional tournament, the minimum performance accepted would be qualifying for de Gold Cup.

3. Advance to the Gold Cup semis, the minimum performance accepted would be advancing from the group stage

4. Lead the team to at least a top 50 FIFA ranking over a reasonable period of time. (this last one you could probably have leeway with)



But as always there would be mitigating factors. The actual performance on the field, consistent improvement demonstrated throughout the tenure, wins against main rivals, the public opinion, are better options available etc...


This is how it is done worldwide at club and national level... managers are expected to avoid relegation, make a decent cup run, win de title, champions league etc and so on.

Now while Maturana has so far achieved the minimum for Goal no.1, he has failed no.2 outright and as a result no.3 as well. And so far he has not inspired too much confidence that he can achieve any of the rest or even no.2 and no.3 in subsequent years. The public/board is split and disillusioned... I would think that this could be basis to relieve the coach

Thoughts? Are these goals asking too much?

Is there a "weighting factor" to these "minimum goals" you state or do all the "goals" carry the same weight and importance?

In other words.....does qualifying for the World Cup, and therefore in order to do so one must qualify for the Hex, carry the same importance as qualifying for the Gold Cup?  

Is being popular in the court of public opinion (aka "inspiring confidence" according to you) as important as qualifying for the Hex in order to have a chance at qualifying for the World Cup in the first place?

Try and answer as honestly as you can without any bias.

Thank you.
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline weary1969

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2008, 03:58:22 PM »
These goals are in stages so if u pass 1 stage u move on therefore weightin eh so significant. But someting is a must ie GC qualification. This is impt because dis is d competition since Coops days u lookin 4 players 2 step up and join d big boys in d WCQ. In case all yuh eh remember Coops loose he wuk when Grenada beat we in d 1st Shell Cup in 89. So y we debating whether d Colombian should b still here. Gally side take ovah and win d competition

As 4 d public confidence u cyah please everybody so doh study it peeps does always hate ask Stern.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline FF

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Re: Wrong team selected Experts bemoan T&T's Caribbean Cup flop
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2008, 03:59:33 PM »
well palos I rank them in order of importance... So de World Cup is de most important.. then Caribbean Cup, then de Gold Cup... some might rate de Gold Cup higher... but it follows the Caribbean Cup so I rate that higher... plus it is our turf to defend so to say..

The other mitigating factors I noted tend be subjective such as the brand on de field, public opinion etc... that is why dey are footnotes.. they not as important as de stated goals but should have some influence when conducting a performance evaluation.

What I trying to do is quantify the teams performance levels... so ppl can objectively judge if and when our Managers should be dismissed.

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

 

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