*&^%$!!

[Queen Macoomeh]

This is the kind of &^%$ I can't handle..

all yuh go hear QM mout in dis one! 

http://www.thestar.com/article/550620

[weary1969]

At least d sicko plead guilty.

[Queen Macoomeh]

...but look at the man nuh? Somebody saw him and thought "Gee he'd be perfect to work in a daycare"?

steupse

[Boodsy]

...but look at the man nuh? Somebody saw him and thought "Gee he'd be perfect to work in a daycare"?

steupse

yuh understand!!!

[assrancid]

...but look at the man nuh? Somebody saw him and thought "Gee he'd be perfect to work in a daycare"?

steupse

You decided that he was unfit from a mug shot?

Come on, maybe he had sterling referrals and credentials...happens all the time.

Your comment reminds me of the days when black people were disqualified based on their skin colour.

Just look at the number of Catholic Proests convicted of the same crimes, and just how did those child rapers look?
I am appalled at teh crime, but lets not get carried away here.

[capodetutticapi]

castrate de fukker fuh christmas.

[Queen Macoomeh]

...but look at the man nuh? Somebody saw him and thought "Gee he'd be perfect to work in a daycare"?

steupse

You decided that he was unfit from a mug shot?

Come on, maybe he had sterling referrals and credentials...happens all the time.

Your comment reminds me of the days when black people were disqualified based on their skin colour.

Just look at the number of Catholic Proests convicted of the same crimes, and just how did those child rapers look?
I am appalled at teh crime, but lets not get carried away here.

Not at all...and comparing Black folks to child molesters isn't a leap I'm prepared to make with you.

His IQ and his look would have given me SERIOUS pause in hiring him to work with children.

As far as I see it, anyone working with children should be put through the wringer for mental capabilities. Yes some can pass that radar easily but I doubt he would. Many of those Catholic priests would have failed  psychoanalysis.
Am I judging him on his appearance...oh HECK yes...if he were an employee at my child's daycare I would be asking the administrator a lot of questions. I am pro-active in these things. This is not my car or a pair of shoes, this is my child and you better believe I'd be making snap judgements on who deals with them. I fully intend to get carried away.

[assrancid]

...but look at the man nuh? Somebody saw him and thought "Gee he'd be perfect to work in a daycare"?

steupse

You decided that he was unfit from a mug shot?

Come on, maybe he had sterling referrals and credentials...happens all the time.

Your comment reminds me of the days when black people were disqualified based on their skin colour.

Just look at the number of Catholic Proests convicted of the same crimes, and just how did those child rapers look?
I am appalled at teh crime, but lets not get carried away here.

Not at all...and comparing Black folks to child molesters isn't a leap I'm prepared to make with you.

His IQ and his look would have given me SERIOUS pause in hiring him to work with children.

As far as I see it, anyone working with children should be put through the wringer for mental capabilities. Yes some can pass that radar easily but I doubt he would. Many of those Catholic priests would have failed  psychoanalysis.
Am I judging him on his appearance...oh HECK yes...if he were an employee at my child's daycare I would be asking the administrator a lot of questions. I am pro-active in these things. This is not my car or a pair of shoes, this is my child and you better believe I'd be making snap judgements on who deals with them. I fully intend to get carried away.

come on now lady, you are really getting too emotional and carried away.

No one is comparing child molesters to black people.

you proclaimed that you would have disqualified him based on his mug shot.  I merely pointed out that black people were often disqualified based on their skin color..it was an analogy.

you look at a picture of a man taken during an arrest or so and realistically think that is what he looks like when he is not under extreme pressure.

You say that his IQ and his look would give you reason for pause, just what is that man's IQ?  And you also stated that many Catholic priests would have failed psychoanalysis, that is untrue.

Most people face psychoanalysis only after they have committed some sort of act that leads a reasonable thinking person to surmise that they have a mental affliction.

MOST child care facilities and schools do a complete background check, to include criminal records to determine the eligibility of an applicant for a position.

Without knowing for certain, how can they just disqualify a person for a position based on looks?

additionally, parents have to trust schools and day care facilities to do a background check of employees and prospective employees.

I am sure it is proper to ask if employees are screened before employment, and if they are not, then any right thinking parent would seek and alternate place to school their children.

I think that your rage is misplaced.  The judge who sentenced this man to probation is at fault.  Aim your rage at him too!

[pecan]

...but look at the man nuh? Somebody saw him and thought "Gee he'd be perfect to work in a daycare"?

steupse

You decided that he was unfit from a mug shot?

Come on, maybe he had sterling referrals and credentials...happens all the time.

Your comment reminds me of the days when black people were disqualified based on their skin colour.

Just look at the number of Catholic Proests convicted of the same crimes, and just how did those child rapers look?
I am appalled at teh crime, but lets not get carried away here.

Not at all...and comparing Black folks to child molesters isn't a leap I'm prepared to make with you.

His IQ and his look would have given me SERIOUS pause in hiring him to work with children.

As far as I see it, anyone working with children should be put through the ringer for mental capabilities. Yes some can pass that radar easily but I doubt he would. Many of those Catholic priests would have failed  psychoanalysis.
Am I judging him on his appearance...oh HECK yes...if he were an employee at my child's daycare I would be asking the administrator a lot of questions. I am pro-active in these things. This is not my car or a pair of shoes, this is my child and you better believe I'd be making snap judgements on who deals with them. I fully intend to get carried away.

Queen, the man is despicable and I think that he is getting off too easy and the justice system is a big joke and does not take into account the victim.

However, when you start using how a person looks to make a decision on his ability to work with children or for that matter, for the any job in question, you are beginning to thread on a slippery slope.

My neighbor's son is autistic and when you look at him, you might easily draw wrong conclusions.  What about people with Down's Syndrome?  Shall we discriminate against them because they look 'retarded' and question their ability to work amongst children? Shall we ban people from areas where children play because of how they look?

By all means, do a background check, assess the fit between the person and the job; by all means ask to see the credentials of the staff at the day care before you entrust your child to them;  but we cannot and must not discriminate based on looks and IQ.

[Queen Macoomeh]

Assrancid, the article gives the man's IQ...it's 75
I take offense at your analogy/comparison, what ever you wish to call it
I am emotional about it, no apology there either. What else should I be emotional about if not the care of children? What are you emotional about?

Pecan, I can and do base certain judgement on looks, We all do. It's the first thing we see unless it's a phone call and even then we make judgements on the voice. I am prepared to admit it freely. I don't kid myself. A slippery slope? Yes, definately but one I tread only when pushed there and this case to me is more than a push. One I tread carefully too. It is not indiscriminate. I'm not on a witch hunt.

I don't think I judge retarded people in the same vein. I hope not. Once I am past the inital judgement I move on as the occasion dictates. But this man's IQ is still high enough to separate right for wrong. He admitted to wrong didn't he? He hid it didn't he? Even the little children knew it was wrong and they didn't come forward did they? Seems to me it is built into our wiring to know what is wrong.

I look at this man's photo and I baulk. I am angry and upset. I have that right. Should I be politically correct at the expense of the children? I think not. That political correctness has its place but not in this.

If this man had come to me for a job in my daycare his appearance would have been part of my assessment. It has to be that way.

Assrancid suggests it is a mug shot and nobody could make a mugshot look good. Fine...BUT...I am allowed my anger and I stand by my opinion that he would not have passed muster if the hiring staff was doing their homework.

[WestCoast]

castrate de f**kker fuh christmas.

Ho Ho Ho
no jingle bellin fa he
slimy f**k that he is

looky here what do I see under de xmas tree
"Justice Bonnie Croll accepted a joint Crown-defence recommendation and ordered the man's release yesterday after having served 20 months in pre-trial custody."
ONE SETTA SICK f**kERS....is dem That MAD....make dem serve the sentence that he SHOULD get.

addendum: send he to become ah RC Priest.....


OH!!!! by the way
Seasons Greetings to all ah allya

[assrancid]

A psychiatric assessment arranged by his lawyer, Gina Da Fonte, shows Thomas has an IQ of 75 and functions at a lower level than a 9-year-old child.

Lynn Connolly, program manager with the city's municipal child-care services, said in an interview that Thomas came as a student placement from the Toronto District School Board.

She said the fact that someone is low-functioning does not make them ineligible as a student placement.

Blevins did a criminal reference check on Thomas, she said.

Since the incident, she said, Blevins makes sure everyone wears badges to show if they are volunteers, staff or student placements so parents know who is who.

Thomas's low intelligence and lack of a place to live are risk factors when released, but he has already served the equivalent of almost 3  1/2  years in jail awaiting trial, prosecutor Jill Witkin told reporters. The Salvation Army had a bed waiting for him yesterday.

"The court and the Crown were in a difficult position. You can't hold somebody in custody indefinitely," Witkin said.

The sentence was within the expected range for a man with no prior criminal record and who pleaded guilty for such crimes, Witkin said.

[/b]

It is hardly likely that the man even knows what he did was wrong.  I am sure his admission of guilt and apology was prompted by his defense team.

anyway, he is a low functioning individual that did harm to children.  I am much more forgiving of him than I am of those stinking Catholic Priests.

He passed a background check and was placed there by the school system.

What a thing eh, so now those with developmental disabilities are now to be discrimiated because of their looks and IQ's.

And that my friend can be equated to segregrating against someone based on skin color!

[assrancid]

Oh and with an IQ of 75 he is a damn beh-beh man...well very close..so he damn well retarded.

[assrancid]

Table 1 - Practical Significance of IQ

IQ Range   
Frequency   
Cumulative
Frequency   
Typical Educability   
Employment
Options
Below 30   
>1%   >1% below 30   Illiterate   Unemployable. Institutionalized.
30 to 50   
>1%?   >1% below 50   1st-Grade to 3rd-Grade   Simple, non-critical household chores.
50 to 60   
~1%?   1.5% below 60   3rd-Grade to 6th-grade   Very simple tasks, close supervision.
60 to 74   
3.5%?   5% below 74   6th-Grade to 8th-Grade   "Slow, simple, supervised."
74 to 89   
20%   25% below 89   8th-Grade to 12th-Grade   Assembler, food service, nurse's aide
89 to 100   
25%   50% below 100   8th-Grade to 1-2 years of College.   Clerk, teller, Walmart
100 to 111   
50%   1 in 2 above 100   12th-Grade to College Degree   Police officer, machinist, sales
111 to 120   
15%   1 in 4 above 111   College to Master's Level   Manager, teacher, accountant
120 to 125   
5%   11 in 10above 120   College to Non-Technical Ph. D.'s.   Manager, professor, accountant
125 to 132   
3%   1 in 20 above 125   Any Ph. D. at 3rd-Tier Schools   Attorney, editor, executive.
132 to 137   
1%   1 in 50 above 132   No limitations.   Eminent professor, editor
137 to 150   
0.9%   1 in 100 above 137   No limitations.   Leading math, physics professor
150 to 160   
0.1%   1 in 1,100 above 150   No limitations   Lincoln, Copernicus, Jefferson
160 to 174   
0.01%   1 in 11,000 above 160   No limitations   Descartes, Einstein, Spinoza
174 to 200   
0.0099%   1 in 1,000,000
above 174   No limitations   Shakespeare, Goethe, Newton

[assrancid]

1. Rearrange the following letters to make a word and choose the category in which it fits.

RAPETEKA

A. city
B. fruit
C. bird
D. vegetable

Correct answer:

 

2. Find the answer that best completes the analogy

people : democracy :: wealthy :

A. oligarchy
B. oligopoly
C. plutocracy
D. timocracy
E. autocracy

Correct answer:

 

3. Find the answer that best completes the analogy

languages : meaning :: philology :

A. erudition
B. philosophy
C. ethics
D. semantics
E. grammar

Correct answer:

 

4. Which one of the sets of letters below can be arranged into a five letter English word.

A. a t r u n
B. p o d e b
C. r n a s l
D. m o h a t
E. e t l r n

Correct answer:

 

5. What is the missing letter?

E   C   O
B   A   B
G   B   N
D   B   ?
 

Correct answer:

 

6. Find two words, one from each group, that are closest in meaning.

Group A
raise
floor
stairs    Group B
top
elevate
basement


A. raise and elevate
B. raise and top
C. floor and basement
D. stairs and top
E. floor and elevate

Correct answer:

[JDB]

Assrancid, the article gives the man's IQ...it's 75
I take offense at your analogy/comparison, what ever you wish to call it
I am emotional about it, no apology there either. What else should I be emotional about if not the care of children? What are you emotional about?

Pecan, I can and do base certain judgement on looks, We all do. It's the first thing we see unless it's a phone call and even then we make judgements on the voice. I am prepared to admit it freely. I don't kid myself. A slippery slope? Yes, definately but one I tread only when pushed there and this case to me is more than a push. One I tread carefully too. It is not indiscriminate. I'm not on a witch hunt.

I don't think I judge retarded people in the same vein. I hope not. Once I am past the inital judgement I move on as the occasion dictates. But this man's IQ is still high enough to separate right for wrong. He admitted to wrong didn't he? He hid it didn't he? Even the little children knew it was wrong and they didn't come forward did they? Seems to me it is built into our wiring to know what is wrong.

I look at this man's photo and I baulk. I am angry and upset. I have that right. Should I be politically correct at the expense of the children? I think not. That political correctness has its place but not in this.

If this man had come to me for a job in my daycare his appearance would have been part of my assessment. It has to be that way.

Assrancid suggests it is a mug shot and nobody could make a mugshot look good. Fine...BUT...I am allowed my anger and I stand by my opinion that he would not have passed muster if the hiring staff was doing their homework.

Queen I think yuh missing the point completely.

His appearance in that mug shot is most likely very different to how he looked when he was hired and when he was working. Clean shaven, with his hair groomed and decent clothes he would look like an average white guy to me. I would be surprised if you could discern anything about him under those circumstances.

Also you talk about treading on the slippery slope of prejudice when being pushed by a case like this, but that is all after the fact, after this has been revealed. Unless you have been personally victim or witness to a case like this it is unlikely that you would feel pushed to prejudice against what is an average looking person.

The fact that professionals trained to protect and nurture kids and responsible parents who love their kids did not pick it up suggests that he was not as openly suspicious as you think. Unless you believe that they were all negligent. These attacks sadly are like terrorist attacks you can't prevent all of them even if you did something as impractical as psych testing every one.

And the biggest problem with placing too much interest in stereotypes as superficial as how someone looks is that you are saying that other people deserve less suspicion by virtue of how they look. Bottom line if you are going to be distrustful and exercise due diligence it should be based on more than a look.

[pecan]

Assrancid, the article gives the man's IQ...it's 75
I take offense at your analogy/comparison, what ever you wish to call it
I am emotional about it, no apology there either. What else should I be emotional about if not the care of children? What are you emotional about?

Pecan, I can and do base certain judgement on looks, We all do. It's the first thing we see unless it's a phone call and even then we make judgements on the voice. I am prepared to admit it freely. I don't kid myself. A slippery slope? Yes, definately but one I tread only when pushed there and this case to me is more than a push. One I tread carefully too. It is not indiscriminate. I'm not on a witch hunt.

I don't think I judge retarded people in the same vein. I hope not. Once I am past the inital judgement I move on as the occasion dictates. But this man's IQ is still high enough to separate right for wrong. He admitted to wrong didn't he? He hid it didn't he? Even the little children knew it was wrong and they didn't come forward did they? Seems to me it is built into our wiring to know what is wrong.

I look at this man's photo and I baulk. I am angry and upset. I have that right. Should I be politically correct at the expense of the children? I think not. That political correctness has its place but not in this.

If this man had come to me for a job in my daycare his appearance would have been part of my assessment. It has to be that way.

Assrancid suggests it is a mug shot and nobody could make a mugshot look good. Fine...BUT...I am allowed my anger and I stand by my opinion that he would not have passed muster if the hiring staff was doing their homework.

ahmm  Queen, one comments and two questions:

Comment: by no stretch of the imagination am I supporting this man and based on the outcome of the trial, I feel, he should be locked up for a long time.  I am not questioning your anger.  Rather, I am challenging you on your statement that " His IQ and his look would have given me SERIOUS pause in hiring him to work with children".  His qualifications and the background check should dictate whether he is suited for the job or not.  Not his looks and IQ.   My arguments address why it is dangerous to judge and implement 'preventative' actions based on opinions, likes and dislikes, rather that fact.

Q1: exactly what physical features in the following photo tells us that this man is not fit to work with children?  If this picture can tell us how people will behave, I would suggest we better be locking up bus loads of people just based on how they look.



Q2: what does low intelligence have to do with determining if a person is a pedophile?

[pecan]

Assrancid, the article gives the man's IQ...it's 75
I take offense at your analogy/comparison, what ever you wish to call it
I am emotional about it, no apology there either. What else should I be emotional about if not the care of children? What are you emotional about?

Pecan, I can and do base certain judgement on looks, We all do. It's the first thing we see unless it's a phone call and even then we make judgements on the voice. I am prepared to admit it freely. I don't kid myself. A slippery slope? Yes, definately but one I tread only when pushed there and this case to me is more than a push. One I tread carefully too. It is not indiscriminate. I'm not on a witch hunt.

I don't think I judge retarded people in the same vein. I hope not. Once I am past the inital judgement I move on as the occasion dictates. But this man's IQ is still high enough to separate right for wrong. He admitted to wrong didn't he? He hid it didn't he? Even the little children knew it was wrong and they didn't come forward did they? Seems to me it is built into our wiring to know what is wrong.

I look at this man's photo and I baulk. I am angry and upset. I have that right. Should I be politically correct at the expense of the children? I think not. That political correctness has its place but not in this.

If this man had come to me for a job in my daycare his appearance would have been part of my assessment. It has to be that way.

Assrancid suggests it is a mug shot and nobody could make a mugshot look good. Fine...BUT...I am allowed my anger and I stand by my opinion that he would not have passed muster if the hiring staff was doing their homework.

Queen I think yuh missing the point completely.

His appearance in that mug shot is most likely very different to how he looked when he was hired and when he was working. Clean shaven, with his hair groomed and decent clothes he would look like an average white guy to me. I would be surprised if you could discern anything about him under those circumstances.

Also you talk about treading on the slippery slope of prejudice when being pushed by a case like this, but that is all after the fact, after this has been revealed. Unless you have been personally victim or witness to a case like this it is unlikely that you would feel pushed to prejudice against what is an average looking person.

The fact that professionals trained to protect and nurture kids and responsible parents who love their kids did not pick it up suggests that he was not as openly suspicious as you think. Unless you believe that they were all negligent. These attacks sadly are like terrorist attacks you can't prevent all of them even if you did something as impractical as psych testing every one.

And the biggest problem with placing too much interest in stereotypes as superficial as how someone looks is that you are saying that other people deserve less suspicion by virtue of how they look. Bottom line if you are going to be distrustful and exercise due diligence it should be based on more than a look.

well said

[pecan]

A psychiatric assessment arranged by his lawyer, Gina Da Fonte, shows Thomas has an IQ of 75 and functions at a lower level than a 9-year-old child.

Lynn Connolly, program manager with the city's municipal child-care services, said in an interview that Thomas came as a student placement from the Toronto District School Board.

She said the fact that someone is low-functioning does not make them ineligible as a student placement.

Blevins did a criminal reference check on Thomas, she said.

Since the incident, she said, Blevins makes sure everyone wears badges to show if they are volunteers, staff or student placements so parents know who is who.

Thomas's low intelligence and lack of a place to live are risk factors when released, but he has already served the equivalent of almost 3  1/2  years in jail awaiting trial, prosecutor Jill Witkin told reporters. The Salvation Army had a bed waiting for him yesterday.

"The court and the Crown were in a difficult position. You can't hold somebody in custody indefinitely," Witkin said.

The sentence was within the expected range for a man with no prior criminal record and who pleaded guilty for such crimes, Witkin said.

[/b]

It is hardly likely that the man even knows what he did was wrong.  I am sure his admission of guilt and apology was prompted by his defense team.

anyway, he is a low functioning individual that did harm to children.  I am much more forgiving of him than I am of those stinking Catholic Priests.

He passed a background check and was placed there by the school system.

What a thing eh, so now those with developmental disabilities are now to be discrimiated because of their looks and IQ's.

And that my friend can be equated to segregrating against someone based on skin color!

agreed

[Queen Macoomeh]

Equations, logical formation of arguments...
none of it matters if this were your child molested. I can guarantee you. There is something to be said for knee jerk reactions, they can safe guard you and yours. I looked at the man and reacted. it was really that simple. I didn't try to imagine him clean shaven and neat.

Let me try to answer the questions raised - pardon me if I miss any.

Assrancid, the reason I quoted his IQ was because you asked how I knew what it was. I was telling you it wasn't from clairvoyance, it was from reading the article.

As for appearances. Are you all saying you do NOT react to appearances? You do NOT judge from appearances immediately then adjust as required? If that is what you all are telling me then I have no further argument.

There are people with disabilities at my daughter's daycare. They help tidy up, they help prepare lunches, they assist with the newborns and infants. Depending on how high they function, they may teach as well to a level. They are supervised. They do not form clubs and have the private access that this man did. This man who you refer to as 'low functioning' was allowed to form a private club. Even if his IQ was 200, as a parent I would still want to know much more about this private club. Someone said were he clean shaved and neat he would appear like an average white guy. How could he if he were low functioning? Are average white guys low functioning?

Yes indeed this is all 20/20 hindsight. As I said I am allowed my anger. You NEED to get angry at these things. These children are our most fragile and in need of our protection. Some one said he's more forgiving of this man than the Catholic Priests? I am equally outraged. Therein lies the rub. The result is the same. An abused child.

Terrorists...someone mentioned that. No you can't psych test each one, but they all have the same goal. Not all low funtioning people are pedophiles. I don't believe I suggested that. This man was put with those who could not defend themselves, choose right from wrong - they don't know he's low functioning - as far as they were concerned, he was a five year old just like them - so who was supervising them? He was tested and found to be functioning like a 9 year old but he was tried as an adult and sentence meted out as an adult. Can't have it both ways.

I'm afraid I cannot put aside my anger in order not to offend.

[JDB]

Queen again you seem to be ignoring where all this long talk start.

Your original statement was.

...but look at the man nuh? Somebody saw him and thought "Gee he'd be perfect to work in a daycare"?

The implication there is that somebody dropped the ball in hiring him. Which is unfair since you are forming your opinion after the fact. From that picture there is nothing that suggests he is a pedophile. You do not know what he looks like on an average day, even less so when he is presenting himself for a job.

The outrage and anger is fine but it is misplaced if the response is to retroactively decide that the people who hired him bear any more responsibility than the facts indicate.

As for the terrorist reference my point was, like terrorists you cannot tell who these people are until theyrear their head. Thankfully we now have laws to mark them for life as predators once they get caught.

[pecan]

Let me try to answer the questions raised - pardon me if I miss any.

OK

[Queen Macoomeh]

JDB.
In my last response I stated that I saw his photo and reacted. Much like we all did and I do not hide my reaction. I also said this was 20/20 hindsight. I don't think I ignored the things you repeated.
Facts are glorious things but I cannot see how this man could have been allowed the access he was given.

Yes our laws mark these sex offenders as predators. Some countries go further and eliminate them. I once did a check on the sex offenders within a radius of my home. It was unnerving. Sometimes laws negate and make useless the art of common sense.

[JDB]

Queen we going in circles which is not necessary since we all agree that the man is despicable.

I just don't think think that the judgment that you make based on a mugshot could be compared to the judgment that people would make under very different circumstances.

Minor thing.

[Queen Macoomeh]

Turns out the daycare was in the River Street/Dundas area of Toronto. Those of you who know Toronto will probably understand why this man was allowed to work with the children there...

JDB, we'll agree to disagree. Thanks for engaging, gentlemen..