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Offline Bakes

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For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« on: December 23, 2008, 01:23:21 AM »
For British Stars, Even Taste of Italy Can Be Too Much

December 23, 2008
By JACK BELL

In Italian soccer, a bidone is known as a dud, a flop. And when it comes to British players in Italy since World War II, the bidoni have been the rule.

“Very few have built any kind of career,” said John Foot, the author of a book about Italian soccer, “Winning at All Costs,” and a professor in the Italian department at University College London. “You can count them on the fingers of one hand.”

Now that David Beckham has arrived in Italy, on a loan deal between Major League Soccer and A.C. Milan that is supposed to last until March, the Rossoneri, as the club is known, is in the spotlight more for its off-the-field luster than its mediocre performance on the field. And although Beckham is expected to be with Milan only on a short-term loan, his star presence has rekindled the discussion about why there are so few British players in Italy, and why Beckham is there now.

“It’s kind of a commercial thing as much as football,” Foot said about the loan, which will enable Beckham to play in about 10 Serie A games and several UEFA Cup matches. “He wanted somewhere to play in Europe for a short time, but it is a very bizarre idea.”

Beckham arrived in Milan over the weekend, attended Sunday’s 5-1 win over Udinese, and will travel with the team to Dubai for a midseason training camp.

“As a saleable commodity, Milan is the perfect place for Beckham,” Foot said Friday in a telephone interview from Milan.

Foot asserts that rigorous discipline in training, in tactical awareness and in technique have been a challenge for the few adventurous British players who have played in Italy. Plucked from a familiar environment, some top British players over the years struggled and ultimately failed in Italy — forever bidoni.

They were the good, the bad ... and Gazza.

JOHN CHARLES At 6 feet 2 inches, the Gentle Giant grew into a mythic figure with Juventus (1957-1962) when he scored 93 goals in 150 games.

“In the early ’60s, there were a lot of successful Brits, maybe not very good players, but you didn’t have to be very good,” Foot said.

Charles went to Italy from Leeds United on a transfer fee of more than $90,000, which was then a record. Juventus won three Serie A and two Italian Cup titles with him.

JIMMY GREAVES Greaves went from Chelsea (where he had scored 124 goals in 157 games) to A.C. Milan in 1961.

“I can pinpoint the day, the hour, the minute, the second that I doomed myself to life as an alcoholic,” Greaves wrote in his autobiography, “Greavsie.” “It was the moment I signed my name on a contract that tied me head and foot to A.C. Milan.”

He played in 10 games, and scored nine goals (four from penalty kicks) before returning to England. He scored 220 goals for Tottenham from 1961 to 1970.

DENIS LAW Perhaps a bad experience in Italy (10 goals in 27 games for Torino in 1961-62) transformed Law, a Scot, into the man who scored 171 goals for Manchester United from 1962 to 1973. “He was just not used to the tactical discipline in Italy,” Foot said.

LUTHER BLISSETT Fresh off winning the Golden Boot as England’s top scorer in 1982-83, Blissett left Watford for A.C. Milan. In Italy, he was so bad he was good.

“He became a folk hero because he was so bad,” Foot said. “He was a fantastic personality, but people thought he was John Barnes. Perhaps it was a matter of racism. But Blissett was able to hit the post from any position in front of the goal. A specialist. He became an absolute myth in Milanese history, quite liked, popular.”

But, in the end, a failure who scored only five goals and became a cult figure comparable to the film director Ed Wood.

IAN RUSH “He was at the peak of his career when he left Liverpool for Italy,” Foot said. “But he was like a fish out of water.”

After scoring 139 goals for Liverpool from 1980 to 1987, Rush had seven goals in 29 games in his only season at Juventus. A Welshman, he did not help himself when he reportedly said about his time in Turin, “It’s like living in a foreign country.”

LIAM BRADY A near legend during his time at Arsenal from 1973 to 1980, Brady used his midfield acumen to become a relative success in Italy. After two seasons at Juventus, where he scored 15 goals, he was supplanted by Michel Platini and moved on to Sampdoria, Inter and Ascoli. Brady, an Irishman, returned to England and finished his career with West Ham.

PAUL GASCOIGNE The king of the bidoni. He was the last English player to sign with an Italian team at the peak of his career. Known by his nickname, Gazza, he was still a superstar in England, but had problems with alcohol and his mental health. Sold by Tottenham to Lazio for an $8 million fee in 1992, Gascoigne receives most of the credit for popularizing Serie A on English television. In three tumultuous years in Rome, Gazza played in only 41 league games, scored six goals and was substituted 30 times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/sports/soccer/23goal.html?ref=sports

Offline Filho

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 07:52:46 AM »
Paul Ince. He didn't stay long but he was really good at Inter imo

Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2008, 07:56:15 AM »
EPL is the best league, bar none.

And the mere fact that English players cannot make it in Italy is testament to the shittiness of Serie A.


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Offline Bitter

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 08:55:30 AM »
How my name get call in this?  ;D
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Offline freakazoid

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2008, 09:43:32 AM »
the man was so bad , he was good :rotfl:  ah mean if u keep going east u will eventually end up in the west
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2008, 10:24:22 AM »

LUTHER BLISSETT Fresh off winning the Golden Boot as England’s top scorer in 1982-83, Blissett left Watford for A.C. Milan. In Italy, he was so bad he was good.

“He became a folk hero because he was so bad,” Foot said. “He was a fantastic personality, but people thought he was John Barnes. Perhaps it was a matter of racism. But Blissett was able to hit the post from any position in front of the goal. A specialist. He became an absolute myth in Milanese history, quite liked, popular.”

But, in the end, a failure who scored only five goals and became a cult figure comparable to the film director Ed Wood.
This Jack Bell man frig up bad.  :rotfl: He have a trinidadianesque sarcasm.

Offline fordy

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2008, 11:16:28 AM »
EPL is the best league, bar none.

And the mere fact that English players cannot make it in Italy is testament to the shittiness of Serie A.

boss u hear yuhself??? the mere fact that english players cant make it in Italy is because their game is not as technically sound.

i thought platt from arsenal played in Italy for a while? i cud be wrong! :beermug:
football...the one true life experience!!!

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2008, 11:39:07 AM »
rush left liverpool fuh juve
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline JDB

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2008, 12:09:25 PM »
EPL is the best league, bar none.

And the mere fact that English players cannot make it in Italy is testament to the shittiness of Serie A.

boss u hear yuhself??? the mere fact that english players cant make it in Italy is because their game is not as technically sound.

i thought platt from arsenal played in Italy for a while? i cud be wrong! :beermug:

Platt moved from Villa to Italy and he did very well.

Started at Bari and impressed so much that Juve bought him. Did well at Juve but struggled for playing time because in those days they could only play 3 non-Italians and Julio Cesar. Kohler and Andy Moller would usually take the spots.

He went to Sampdoria and played for a couple years as a starter.

The list leaves off plenty names who did well and not so well.

Des Walker was arguably the worst performer when you consider he was supposed to be one of the best defenders in the world. He completely lost it, couldn't adapt to the food and lifestyle and his pace wasn't a big plus because they defended more zone and much deeper.

Ray Wilkins held his own at Milan and Gordon Cowans did well at Bari too.
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Offline Filho

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2008, 12:15:21 PM »
EPL is the best league, bar none.

And the mere fact that English players cannot make it in Italy is testament to the shittiness of Serie A.

boss u hear yuhself??? the mere fact that english players cant make it in Italy is because their game is not as technically sound.

i thought platt from arsenal played in Italy for a while? i cud be wrong! :beermug:

David Platt and Paul Ince are two success stories (imo) they somehow left out. Platt played at Arsenal or Aston Villa?

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 09:39:09 PM »
EPL is the best league, bar none.

And the mere fact that English players cannot make it in Italy is testament to the shittiness of Serie A.

boss u hear yuhself??? the mere fact that english players cant make it in Italy is because their game is not as technically sound.

i thought platt from arsenal played in Italy for a while? i cud be wrong! :beermug:
He's being sarcastic.

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Re: For British Players, Taste of Italy is Often Bitter
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2008, 10:05:58 PM »
EPL is the best league, bar none.

And the mere fact that English players cannot make it in Italy is testament to the shittiness of Serie A.

boss u hear yuhself??? the mere fact that english players cant make it in Italy is because their game is not as technically sound.

i thought platt from arsenal played in Italy for a while? i cud be wrong! :beermug:
He's being sarcastic.

And he needs to take the needle off the record. We get it!

 

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