March 28, 2024, 10:20:37 AM

Author Topic: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread  (Read 460059 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Feliziano

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3146
  • www.TheWarriorNation.com
    • View Profile
    • The Warrior Nation
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #450 on: March 22, 2009, 12:45:38 PM »
My notes:  :beermug:

  • Fingers crossed for no injuries during the international break
  • Great to see Agger back
  • I think Freidel's red card will be rescinded as there was a covering defender (I think. Didn't see a replay)
  • Thought LFC old boys Freidel and Heskey got an excellent reception from the Kop, and the overall atmosphere was one of the best of the season
  • What a player Gerrard is (my fantasy team captain  ;D )
  • Goal difference could be crucial
good points
ah tell allyuh like Rafa learn he lesson bout this rotation shit
the only players who should be rotated every now and then barring injuries are Riera and Kuyt with Babel and Benyayoun
ah hope Babel injured and didnt get dropped this game though or else dat mean Rafa still doing shit

i just feel we could do it..all de 'cracking up' already done for the season
is Man U turn now, maybe that international break might be enough to get back on track
Feliz
Warrior Nation Secretary & Membership Officer
http://www.TheWarriorNation.com

Offline Mango Chow!

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5720
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #451 on: March 22, 2009, 12:57:26 PM »
Nah nah nah that was not a penalty. What was the keeper to do? Disappear! Poor call.

Observer, whether Friedel accidentally fouled him or not isn't the deciding factor... accidental fouls happen all the time and the fact is Friedel actively played the ball, wasn't like he was just kneeling there and Torres deliberately ran into him.  He actively played the ball and Torres just slipped it beyond him.  Friedel obstructed him and from my understanding of the rules, that's a foul.

Intention only goes towards establishing whether he deliberately impeded him from a clear goal-scoring opportunity or not (meriting a red card).

I think Brad Freidel DID intentionally try to impede him, but he tried to do it ever so slightly to make it look unintentional.........but I still don't think it warranted a red card. Had Freidel actually not turned his shoulder/back into Torres I don't even think the ref mighta been able to call a foul because Freidel was in position and waiting for the ball when Torres was a couple yards away and Torres' own momentum is what took HIM into Freidel, but the ref probably saw that slight "nudge" by Freidel as B&E and handed down a sentence for GTA.  

That "nudge" could properly be interpreted as Friedel bracing himself for the impact... didn't appear to me that he was trying to make contact with Torres.  In fact it looked as thought Torres exaggerated the collision a little bit to ensure that he got the call.


   The "obstruction" call is supposed to be made when you are actively playing the man or impeding his path to the ball with no intention of actively playing the ball.  Torres slipped the ball past the 'keeper and, Freidel already being on his knees, had no where to go.  I agree that that "nudge" could have been interpreted as bracing for impact, but it could have been interpreted the way I did as well, and indeed I think it was so by the referee.  If obstruction was not left to interpretation and was as black and white as you describe above, then whenever a defender shielded a ball out for a goal kick rather than let a forward get to it, the defender would get called for the foul every time.  


Not because a man ears long and he teet' long dat it make him a Jackass!

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #452 on: March 22, 2009, 01:08:43 PM »
   The "obstruction" call is supposed to be made when you are actively playing the man or impeding his path to the ball with no intention of actively playing the ball.  Torres slipped the ball past the 'keeper and, Freidel already being on his knees, had no where to go.  I agree that that "nudge" could have been interpreted as bracing for impact, but it could have been interpreted the way I did as well, and indeed I think it was so by the referee.  If obstruction was not left to interpretation and was as black and white as you describe above, then whenever a defender shielded a ball out for a goal kick rather than let a forward get to it, the defender would get called for the foul every time.   

By no means am I suggesting the call is black and white.  I think though that there's a difference between "shielding" a man off a 50/50 ball which you have an opportunity to get to, and deliberately preventing a man from going after a ball which you have NO chance of getting to... the latter will be called a foul under most circumstances.

Not that I think Friedel deliberately prevented Torres from going after the ball... which is why I'm not arguing that "obstruction" should be called.  I said he obstructed Torres from going after the ball, but this was an accidental obstruction resulting from him actively playing the ball and missing it.  This is no better than an outfield defender lunging at a 50/50 ball and getting man instead... or playing the ball and "accidentally" fouling the attacking player instead.  As I said, accidental fouls happen all the time.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 01:10:22 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline boss

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • When I grow up I want to be Dennis Lawrence
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #453 on: March 22, 2009, 01:09:04 PM »
Some people NEVER satisfied  ;D  ;D  ;D  :beermug:

RAFA: WE SHOULD HAVE SCORED MORE
Jimmy Rice 22 March 2009
   Rafa Benitez claimed he would have liked to have seen more goals after his side's 5-0 thrashing of Aston Villa.
Steven Gerrard took his season's tally to 21 with a hat-trick including two penalties, while further goals for Dirk Kuyt and Albert Riera completed the rout.
 
The whitewash means Liverpool now have a superior goal difference to leaders Manchester United - but the manager would have liked to have seen the net bulge even more.
 
"The team was doing well but it's true I am not totally happy because we could have scored more goals from the counter attack," said Benitez, who wanted the Reds to push on after the dismissal of Brad Friedel at 4-0.
 
"We were playing against 10 players and had three or four more chances. It's really important to take them because you never know what's going to happen with the goal difference.
 
"Today it wasn't key but in other games it has been. I wanted more goals. It's an area we need to improve.
 
"Don't get me wrong, I am really pleased and happy. The players did a fantastic job but you can always improve."
 
The result puts Liverpool just one point behind United having played a game more.
 
On where it leaves the title race, Benitez said: "We said before we needed to do our job and wait for United to make mistakes. Now we are closer but they are still in a much better position. We need to keep going and pushing them.
 
"You cannot be thinking too much about what they will do and how many mistakes they will make. You cannot have any influence on this.
 
"We are closer and they will see we are working hard to win games. Every game is like a final for us now.
 
"They will know we can beat anyone but each game is different so we need to keep this momentum and confidence."
 
Asked if he thought Manchester United were feeling the pressure following two straight defeats, Benitez responded: "I don't know, talk to Mr Ferguson. My impression is that Liverpool are doing well."
 
The boss also reserved a word for Pepe Reina, who became the fastest goalkeeper in Liverpool history to keep 100 clean sheets.
 
"Pepe is a fantastic goalkeeper," he said. "They had some chances and he did well. He's beaten Ray Clemence's record and I am really pleased for him, and also pleased because these kind of saves can keep you in the game."
 
Benitez confirmed that Gerrard and Fernando Torres would now leave for international duty.
 
The Spaniard hopes the enforced break from action will not affect his side's momentum.
 
"If we can keep this momentum it will be good. Hopefully after the international break the players will come back with the same mentality and confidence," he said.
 
Liverpool could be top of the table before United kick another Premier League ball - not that Benitez is looking too far ahead.
 
"We have to win and after see the table. I prefer to talk after the game. You can talk about doing this or that but you have to win the game and then talk afterwards."
 
Meanwhile, Benitez began his press conference with a message to the family of club secretary Bryce Morrison, who died aged 57 yesterday.
 
He said: "First of all I want to give my sympathy to the family of Bryce Morrison. He is a big loss and yesterday was a sad day."

Offline sammy

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3034
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #454 on: March 22, 2009, 01:15:16 PM »
My notes:  :beermug:

  • Fingers crossed for no injuries during the international break
  • Great to see Agger back
  • I think Freidel's red card will be rescinded as there was a covering defender (I think. Didn't see a replay)
  • Thought LFC old boys Freidel and Heskey got an excellent reception from the Kop, and the overall atmosphere was one of the best of the season
  • What a player Gerrard is (my fantasy team captain  ;D )
  • Goal difference could be crucial
good points
ah tell allyuh like Rafa learn he lesson bout this rotation shit
the only players who should be rotated every now and then barring injuries are Riera and Kuyt with Babel and Benyayoun
ah hope Babel injured and didnt get dropped this game though or else dat mean Rafa still doing shit

i just feel we could do it..all de 'cracking up' already done for the season
is Man U turn now
, maybe that international break might be enough to get back on track

oh gosh... hush u goat mouth nah man...... >:(  ;D
"Giving away something in charity does not cause any decrease in a person's wealth, but increases it instead. The person who adopt humility for the sake of Allah is exalted in ranks by Him".
(Muslim)

Offline Mango Chow!

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5720
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #455 on: March 22, 2009, 01:35:35 PM »
  The "obstruction" call is supposed to be made when you are actively playing the man or impeding his path to the ball with no intention of actively playing the ball.  Torres slipped the ball past the 'keeper and, Freidel already being on his knees, had no where to go.  I agree that that "nudge" could have been interpreted as bracing for impact, but it could have been interpreted the way I did as well, and indeed I think it was so by the referee.  If obstruction was not left to interpretation and was as black and white as you describe above, then whenever a defender shielded a ball out for a goal kick rather than let a forward get to it, the defender would get called for the foul every time.  

There's a difference between "shielding" a man off a 50/50 ball which you have an opportunity to get to, and deliberately preventing a man from going after a ball which you have NO chance of getting to... example getting beats in the open field with your back to goal and just throwing yourself in front the attacking player to stop him.  The latter will be called a foul under most circumstances.

Not that I think Friedel deliberately prevented Torres from going after the ball... which is why I'm not arguing that "obstruction" should be called.  I said he obstructed Torres from going after the ball, but this was an accidental obstruction resulting from him actively playing the ball and missing it.  This is no better than an outfield defender lunging at a 50/50 ball and getting man instead... or playing the ball and "accidentally" fouling the attacking player instead.  As I said, accidental fouls happen all the time.

   Torres' poor first touch on the ball made it a ball that was more Brad Freidel's ball than a 50/50; Brad Freidel positions himself to receive the ball.  Not lunging for it, not diving at torres' feet or anything, he has simply but quickly positioned himself on his knees to receive the ball that Torres played in his favor; Torres then somehow recovers from his poor touch and, at the last second plays the ball away from both himself and Brad Freidel.  If at THAT point, Torres collided with Freidel, and Freidel was "bracing for the impact" by taking evasive action then the referee could not have called a foul.  Torres simply played himself out of control. The fact that Torres appeared to have changed direction in pursuit of the ball and Freidel made the slight motion in Torres' direction is what I think the referee interpreted as the "obstruction."  All I am saying is that I don't think that Brad Freidel's intentions were simply to only "brace for the impact" and I think the referee saw it that way, too.  Did Torres make a bit of a meal out of it? Yeah, but the 'keeper helped the decision a little bit. I hope Brad Freidel gets the red card rescinded.  maybe it could have been interpreted as a foul, but I definitely don't think it was a red.   


Not because a man ears long and he teet' long dat it make him a Jackass!

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #456 on: March 22, 2009, 01:45:01 PM »
   Torres' poor first touch on the ball made it a ball that was more Brad Freidel's ball than a 50/50; Brad Freidel positions himself to receive the ball.  Not lunging for it, not diving at torres' feet or anything, he has simply but quickly positioned himself on his knees to receive the ball that Torres played in his favor; Torres then somehow recovers from his poor touch and, at the last second plays the ball away from both himself and Brad Freidel.  If at THAT point, Torres collided with Freidel, and Freidel was "bracing for the impact" by taking evasive action then the referee could not have called a foul.  Torres simply played himself out of control. The fact that Torres appeared to have changed direction in pursuit of the ball and Freidel made the slight motion in Torres' direction is what I think the referee interpreted as the "obstruction."  All I am saying is that I don't think that Brad Freidel's intentions were simply to only "brace for the impact" and I think the referee saw it that way, too.  Did Torres make a bit of a meal out of it? Yeah, but the 'keeper helped the decision a little bit. I hope Brad Freidel gets the red card rescinded.  maybe it could have been interpreted as a foul, but I definitely don't think it was a red.   


Well, I won't keep going back and forth on the issue... the bolded actually reflects my position all along.  The only difference is that I disagree with the "interpreted" part... to me it was a clear cut (even if unintentional) foul.

Other than that, not sure how you can assertively say that Torres' first touch made it a ball that was more Brad Freidel's than a 50/50.  If that was the case then how come Torres got there first?  Clearly it was either that both men could have reached it with equal odds... or Torres had the better chance.  There's no other statistical explanation.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 01:46:40 PM by Bake n Shark »

Offline dinho

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 8591
  • Yesterday is Yesterday and Today is Today!
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #457 on: March 22, 2009, 01:50:12 PM »
Imo it was a clear cut penalty.

When the goalkeeper is in a 1 v 1 situation with an attacker and there is contact and he doesn't get any ball he really doesn't have a leg to stand on. Torres was smart in getting the final toe on the ball before inducing the contact to draw the call. Thats why as soon as Friedel realized the ball went past him he tried to get out of the way. What Friedel should have done (in retrospect) was attack the ball when Torres over pushed it with his first touch.

That said, I don't think it merited a red card. It was accidental contact and also its debatable whether he was the last man on the play.

Hopefully the card gets rescinded.
         

Offline Feliziano

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3146
  • www.TheWarriorNation.com
    • View Profile
    • The Warrior Nation
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #458 on: March 22, 2009, 02:09:44 PM »
Imo it was a clear cut penalty.

When the goalkeeper is in a 1 v 1 situation with an attacker and there is contact and he doesn't get any ball he really doesn't have a leg to stand on. Torres was smart in getting the final toe on the ball before inducing the contact to draw the call. Thats why as soon as Friedel realized the ball went past him he tried to get out of the way. What Friedel should have done (in retrospect) was attack the ball when Torres over pushed it with his first touch.

That said, I don't think it merited a red card. It was accidental contact and also its debatable whether he was the last man on the play.

Hopefully the card gets rescinded.
yeah we need him for Man U lol
Feliz
Warrior Nation Secretary & Membership Officer
http://www.TheWarriorNation.com

Offline Feliziano

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3146
  • www.TheWarriorNation.com
    • View Profile
    • The Warrior Nation
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #459 on: March 22, 2009, 02:10:29 PM »
Wha'is de story with Kicker boy Benayoun... he hurt?
picked up a hamstring injury after the Madrid game
out indefintely
Feliz
Warrior Nation Secretary & Membership Officer
http://www.TheWarriorNation.com

Offline Mango Chow!

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5720
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #460 on: March 22, 2009, 02:21:41 PM »
   Torres' poor first touch on the ball made it a ball that was more Brad Freidel's ball than a 50/50; Brad Freidel positions himself to receive the ball.  Not lunging for it, not diving at torres' feet or anything, he has simply but quickly positioned himself on his knees to receive the ball that Torres played in his favor; Torres then somehow recovers from his poor touch and, at the last second plays the ball away from both himself and Brad Freidel.  If at THAT point, Torres collided with Freidel, and Freidel was "bracing for the impact" by taking evasive action then the referee could not have called a foul.  Torres simply played himself out of control. The fact that Torres appeared to have changed direction in pursuit of the ball and Freidel made the slight motion in Torres' direction is what I think the referee interpreted as the "obstruction."  All I am saying is that I don't think that Brad Freidel's intentions were simply to only "brace for the impact" and I think the referee saw it that way, too.  Did Torres make a bit of a meal out of it? Yeah, but the 'keeper helped the decision a little bit. I hope Brad Freidel gets the red card rescinded.  maybe it could have been interpreted as a foul, but I definitely don't think it was a red.   


Well, I won't keep going back and forth on the issue... the bolded actually reflects my position all along.  The only difference is that I disagree with the "interpreted" part... to me it was a clear cut (even if unintentional) foul.

Other than that, not sure how you can assertively say that Torres' first touch made it a ball that was more Brad Freidel's than a 50/50.  If that was the case then how come Torres got there first?  Clearly it was either that both men could have reached it with equal odds... or Torres had the better chance. 
There's no other statistical explanation.

 

    I make that assertion because you can CLEARLY see Brad Freidel commit himself to kneeling down and waiting for the ball (with arms and hands extended to receive the ball) as Torres continued running and he didn't do it in the way that GK's do in one-on-one situations either.  That's the only reason torres beat him to the ball.  If Freidel were thinking like a feet-only player and not a like GK, and had chosen to play that ball with his feet instead, he would have gotten to that ball before Torres.  He was committed and practically frozen in a kneeling position as Torres was continuing on his run.  If Torres' touch on the ball had given him closer control of the ball or had it been more of a 50/50, Freidel's approach would have been different.  You can't use "statistics" to evaluate a play all the time, guy.  Where we really do differ is on your assertion that "all obstruction is a foul" based on the letter of the law and I disagree with you on what actually is obstruction in the first place.  What I am saying, and to some extent, so is Observer, is that, had Brad Freidel not "braced himself for the impact" as you put it, that It should not have been a foul anyway, even though I'm sure liverpool woulda been cryin' for a penalty and the ref woulda give it.  You and Omar clearly see it otherwise.  


Not because a man ears long and he teet' long dat it make him a Jackass!

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #461 on: March 22, 2009, 03:53:39 PM »
I make that assertion because you can CLEARLY see Brad Freidel commit himself to kneeling down and waiting for the ball (with arms and hands extended to receive the ball) as Torres continued running and he didn't do it in the way that GK's do in one-on-one situations either.  That's the only reason torres beat him to the ball.  If Freidel were thinking like a feet-only player and not a like GK, and had chosen to play that ball with his feet instead, he would have gotten to that ball before Torres.  He was committed and practically frozen in a kneeling position as Torres was continuing on his run.  If Torres' touch on the ball had given him closer control of the ball or had it been more of a 50/50, Freidel's approach would have been different.  You can't use "statistics" to evaluate a play all the time, guy.  Where we really do differ is on your assertion that "all obstruction is a foul" based on the letter of the law and I disagree with you on what actually is obstruction in the first place.  What I am saying, and to some extent, so is Observer, is that, had Brad Freidel not "braced himself for the impact" as you put it, that It should not have been a foul anyway, even though I'm sure liverpool woulda been cryin' for a penalty and the ref woulda give it.  You and Omar clearly see it otherwise.  

Your assertion that had Friedel been "thinking like a feet-only player" he would have gotten to the ball before Torres is spurious at best.  You can't use statistics to evaluate a play all the time (not that I was), but neither can you use imagination.  The ball was always Torres' to be won, his first touch wasn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

Had the penalty not been given nobody woulda been crying because we already had a 4-0 lead already.  I can say this with some measure of authority because later on Cuellar handled the ball (first another defender, then him in succession) in the box trying to defend Torres'... Torres' appealed for the penalty briefly, before carrying on with his business after the ref decided to look the other way.

Offline Observer

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5428
  • The best gift for a footballer is Intelligence ---
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #462 on: March 22, 2009, 04:36:26 PM »
The way I saw it Freidel was actually trying to get out the way. He turned his head & shoulder if anything stood his ground. The Liverpool fans recognize the poor decision and even applauded Freidel off the field.

Watch it here  http://www.mysoccerplace.net/video/liverpool-vs-aston-villa

To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead
                                              Thomas Paine

Offline Mango Chow!

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5720
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #463 on: March 22, 2009, 06:52:01 PM »
I make that assertion because you can CLEARLY see Brad Freidel commit himself to kneeling down and waiting for the ball (with arms and hands extended to receive the ball) as Torres continued running and he didn't do it in the way that GK's do in one-on-one situations either.  That's the only reason torres beat him to the ball.  If Freidel were thinking like a feet-only player and not a like GK, and had chosen to play that ball with his feet instead, he would have gotten to that ball before Torres.  He was committed and practically frozen in a kneeling position as Torres was continuing on his run.  If Torres' touch on the ball had given him closer control of the ball or had it been more of a 50/50, Freidel's approach would have been different.  You can't use "statistics" to evaluate a play all the time, guy.  Where we really do differ is on your assertion that "all obstruction is a foul" based on the letter of the law and I disagree with you on what actually is obstruction in the first place.  What I am saying, and to some extent, so is Observer, is that, had Brad Freidel not "braced himself for the impact" as you put it, that It should not have been a foul anyway, even though I'm sure liverpool woulda been cryin' for a penalty and the ref woulda give it.  You and Omar clearly see it otherwise.  

Your assertion that had Friedel been "thinking like a feet-only player" he would have gotten to the ball before Torres is spurious at best.  You can't use statistics to evaluate a play all the time (not that I was), but neither can you use imagination.  The ball was always Torres' to be won, his first touch wasn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

Had the penalty not been given nobody woulda been crying because we already had a 4-0 lead already.  I can say this with some measure of authority because later on Cuellar handled the ball (first another defender, then him in succession) in the box trying to defend Torres'... Torres' appealed for the penalty briefly, before carrying on with his business after the ref decided to look the other way.
                That ball was not as always Torres' ball to be won as you make it out to be.  As instantaneous as that play unfolded you can still see how quickly freidel moved from his starting position to where he ended up with three quick steps and a motion to change his posture into an awkward position, waiting to receive the ball.  All while Torres is continuing one motion: running after the ball and even accelerating after his first touch.  Had that been a defender running toward the ball from Freidel's position, with his mindset and approach to playing the ball with his feet the same as Torres, the defender was getting to that ball before Torres.  If Freidel had decided to dive at Torres' feet to win that ball rather than maintain a quasi-upright position, he would have had an even better chance at winning the ball cleanly and would have been less likely to have to worry about "bracing for impact."   But he made his decision and in an instant and didn't have the luxury of changing his mind, his posture or his rate of acceleration. You can only see it your way because you can only see things from a "feet-only" player's perspective.  So be it.  I still contend that the referee saw Freidel's "brace for impact" as the foul and not simply that it was his posture and/or position that was.  And....whatever your measure of authority is in the liverpool dressing room, there's no way they would not have appealed for a penalty on that play.  Even as the play unfolded and Torres was finishing his tumble the ground, you could see gerrard gesturing from damned near 40 yards away but the whistle was just as instantaneous.





Observer, with all due respect, it kinda hard to make a case that you're trying to get out of the way of an onrushing player when your move your body into him eh.  I eh sayin' is not de case, but is a little harder to make de case.  ;D  But I wit yuh:  them kinda situations are not always to the keepers' advantage.  Even if Freidel woulda dive at the ball, torres woulda drag he foot, create contact, tumble on de ground and win a penalty anyway.       
 
   


Not because a man ears long and he teet' long dat it make him a Jackass!

Offline dwolfman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
    • Malvern Sports Club
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #464 on: March 22, 2009, 07:12:42 PM »
The way I saw it Freidel was actually trying to get out the way. He turned his head & shoulder if anything stood his ground. The Liverpool fans recognize the poor decision and even applauded Freidel off the field.

Watch it here  http://www.mysoccerplace.net/video/liverpool-vs-aston-villa



Weren't they applauding him off the field because he was a former Liverpool player? Didn't Heskey also receive applause?

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #465 on: March 23, 2009, 01:34:31 AM »
      That ball was not as always Torres' ball to be won as you make it out to be.  As instantaneous as that play unfolded you can still see how quickly freidel moved from his starting position to where he ended up with three quick steps and a motion to change his posture into an awkward position, waiting to receive the ball.  All while Torres is continuing one motion: running after the ball and even accelerating after his first touch.  Had that been a defender running toward the ball from Freidel's position, with his mindset and approach to playing the ball with his feet the same as Torres, the defender was getting to that ball before Torres.  If Freidel had decided to dive at Torres' feet to win that ball rather than maintain a quasi-upright position, he would have had an even better chance at winning the ball cleanly and would have been less likely to have to worry about "bracing for impact."   But he made his decision and in an instant and didn't have the luxury of changing his mind, his posture or his rate of acceleration. You can only see it your way because you can only see things from a "feet-only" player's perspective.  So be it.  I still contend that the referee saw Freidel's "brace for impact" as the foul and not simply that it was his posture and/or position that was.  And....whatever your measure of authority is in the liverpool dressing room, there's no way they would not have appealed for a penalty on that play.  Even as the play unfolded and Torres was finishing his tumble the ground, you could see gerrard gesturing from damned near 40 yards away but the whistle was just as instantaneous.

Wow... not only can you read Brad Freidel's mind to say what he was thinking and what he could have done, but you can also read my mind through my computer to tell me how I think.  It never ceases to amaze me the amount of talent we have on this forum.

Truth is I did contemplate what the outcome might have been had Freidel dove or slide in feet first for the ball... my conclusion was that there probably would have been a clearer case for a penalty, so Friedel's decision seemed the more prudent option.  But what I know, no amount ah Playstation training could develop my Jedi powers like yours, so I sure I wrong.

-----------

Wolfman... I think there's a strong measure of truth to what you say about him being applauded as a Liverpool alumn, but I also agree with Observer's (and the commentary team's) view that some of the support stemmed from the fans' realization that he was hard done by.

Offline Mango Chow!

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5720
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #466 on: March 23, 2009, 05:57:40 AM »
Well, I won't keep going back and forth on the issue...

       I know you can't help yourself, though....


      That ball was not as always Torres' ball to be won as you make it out to be.  As instantaneous as that play unfolded you can still see how quickly freidel moved from his starting position to where he ended up with three quick steps and a motion to change his posture into an awkward position, waiting to receive the ball.  All while Torres is continuing one motion: running after the ball and even accelerating after his first touch.  Had that been a defender running toward the ball from Freidel's position, with his mindset and approach to playing the ball with his feet the same as Torres, the defender was getting to that ball before Torres.  If Freidel had decided to dive at Torres' feet to win that ball rather than maintain a quasi-upright position, he would have had an even better chance at winning the ball cleanly and would have been less likely to have to worry about "bracing for impact."   But he made his decision and in an instant and didn't have the luxury of changing his mind, his posture or his rate of acceleration. You can only see it your way because you can only see things from a "feet-only" player's perspective.  So be it.  I still contend that the referee saw Freidel's "brace for impact" as the foul and not simply that it was his posture and/or position that was.  And....whatever your measure of authority is in the liverpool dressing room, there's no way they would not have appealed for a penalty on that play.  Even as the play unfolded and Torres was finishing his tumble the ground, you could see gerrard gesturing from damned near 40 yards away but the whistle was just as instantaneous.

Wow... not only can you read Brad Freidel's mind to say what he was thinking and what he could have done, but you can also read my mind through my computer to tell me how I think.  It never ceases to amaze me the amount of talent we have on this forum.

Truth is I did contemplate what the outcome might have been had Freidel dove or slide in feet first for the ball... my conclusion was that there probably would have been a clearer case for a penalty, so Friedel's decision seemed the more prudent option.  But what I know, no amount ah Playstation training could develop my Jedi powers like yours, so I sure I wrong.



    But since I am the one thinking for Brad Freidel, the referee, liverpool, and the fans (and not you)
please enlighten me on how you come to the conclusion (with any measure of your authority, of course) that any other approach...or, you know what? Just using the two other approaches YOU asserted.....please...explain to me how you calculated the formula that:

 ".....had Freidel dove or slide in feet first for the ball... my conclusion was that there probably would have been a clearer case for a penalty...." 

  I mean, anything I have said here is based on nothing more than training, coaching and experience, whether you approve of it or not. But since you seem to know so much about everything and so much more than everybody else, I wanna be the first in line with arms extended to receive this manna from the sky that you bother to begrudge us.  Lemme see how fast yuh could research.





Not because a man ears long and he teet' long dat it make him a Jackass!

Offline boss

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • When I grow up I want to be Dennis Lawrence
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #467 on: March 23, 2009, 07:01:37 AM »
I'd say it was about 75%:

Quote
to what you say about him being applauded as a Liverpool alum,

and 25%:

Quote
Observer's (and the commentary team's) view that some of the support stemmed from the fans' realization that he was hard done by.

Both Heskey and Freidel got really good receptions, especially from the Kop which is the norm for most ex-players (Michael Owen seems to have divided opinion, McManaman left on a Bosman which didn't go down well are the notable exceptions). Freidel left because he was a firm second to Sander Westerveld, which is mildly ironic because Westerveld's form would later go downhill.  :beermug:

Offline kaliman2006

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2367
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #468 on: March 23, 2009, 10:12:32 AM »
As  a Liverpool fan, I will be the first to admit that Friedel's sending off was a horrendous decision. Even if the decision is subjected to the scrutiny  of the laws of the game, there was no clear goalscoring opportunity if Torres had successfully rounded Friedel; if anything, Reo-Coker had a better chance of getting to the ball than Torres did and would most likely have successfully cleared the ball even if Torres had rounded Friedel.

All in all a terrible call.

Offline Feliziano

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3146
  • www.TheWarriorNation.com
    • View Profile
    • The Warrior Nation
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #469 on: March 23, 2009, 08:53:45 PM »
Benitez bullish over title chances

Rafael Benitez says Liverpool's players have the belief they can win the Premier League title - and he reckons the rest of the country know it.

Benitez has seen Liverpool produce three sensational victories in 12 days, scoring four each against Real Madrid and Manchester United plus five on Sunday against Aston Villa.

It puts Liverpool one point behind United at the top - although the champions still have a game in hand.

But a goal difference margin of 11 a few weeks ago, considered then to be worth another point, has been wiped out and over-taken by Liverpool's goal blitz.

And the Reds could be top before United play their next game if they win at Fulham on April 4, 24 hours before the Red Devils face Villa at Old Trafford in their next match.

Benitez said: "There is a sense of real belief now. When you are playing well and scoring a lot of goals against top sides you will have the belief that you can beat anyone.

"But we must be calm, win the next game, get the points and keep going until the end. Otherwise everything will be wasted.

"Clearly we have confidence and the team is playing well. But we must just wait to see what happens next to United, while we must keep going and keep the team playing at this level."

Skipper Steven Gerrard struck a set-piece hat-trick against Villa - taking his season total to 21 in 38 games - and he said: "We were always conscious of the goal difference and wiping out Manchester United's lead.

"Now we must keep winning, keep on their shoulder and keep piling on the pressure. We must show we are ready to pounce on any mistakes they make."

Full-back Alvaro Arbeloa believes that Liverpool's blistering start to matches is now becoming decisive.

He said: "We had a really good start to the Villa game, and that kind of first-half display is the key to improving our home form.

"If we can start really well at Anfield it can be important because an early goal can open up a tight match. You saw what it was like against Real Madrid in the Champions League and they could not cope with us, so I think we have to do the same in all of our home matches."

He added: "We are closer to the top but it is best to just focus on how well we are playing. We have a lot of confidence now and I think we are performing at our best level.

"We have to keep going, build on the momentum of the past week or so and make sure we fight right up until the end of the season."

And the Spain international was quick to praise Gerrard's contribution, saying: "He was excellent and he deserves all the credit he gets because he is a key player for us and performs like a true captain.

"He is having an amazing season, and he deserves to be considered the best there is."

Liverpool must now wait for a fortnight to continue their pursuit of United, with an international break to be negotiated first.

Benitez said: "We need to wait now for United to make mistakes. We are closer but they are in a very good position. We must keep going and keep pushing them.

"They will see we are working hard for every game, so my message is to keep doing our job.

"When you are playing well, the players have more confidence. Sometimes you do not need to change things, we have more or less the same players and system.

"But it is now one game a week. Torres is fit, Gerrard is fit, Aurelio is fit so it is easier to keep the same players on the pitch.

"We may have (injury) problems caused by the international break, but we have Agger back from injury and Yossi Benayoun almost fit. That gives us more choice but we will need all of our players now.

"You cannot keep thinking if United will make two or three mistakes, you just have to keep winning and see what happens because you cannot have any influence on their results."

He added: "Manchester United's next game is at home to Aston Villa, and Villa have won ten away games in the league this season. Maybe they will make things difficult for United.

"Maybe people will now think (after we won there) that they can now do well at United. But more importantly, everyone knows now that we can beat anyone, so we must keep playing with this level of confidence.

"Me cracking up? All I can say is that I was calm before and I am still calm now."



YES WE CAN!!!!....That's a Fact!!!!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 06:57:39 PM by Feliziano »
Feliz
Warrior Nation Secretary & Membership Officer
http://www.TheWarriorNation.com

Offline darrel3000

  • Full Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Go T&T Go!
    • View Profile
    • Professional Audio Sales & Live Event Production
May24 League (3days) May27 CL Final, to league or not to Rome?
« Reply #470 on: March 24, 2009, 09:59:35 AM »
It's it entirely possible that the League title will come down to the last game of the season on May 24 (H-Spurs) in which case we must field our strongest team with the likely possibility of also playing the CL Final three days later in Rome! Do we dare guess Rafa? F*ck yeah we do it all the time. The League Title is paramount, no doubt.

We must win the next seven league games to give ourselves some breathing room and I believe that we will (knock on wood). Not only is the team fireing on all cylinders right now but they absolutely believe in themselves, top to bottom. Certianly Arsenal is the best opposition on paper, but considering how we have fared against the 'big' clubs this season, I have no reason to think we wouldn't win this matchup too, the boys relish this kind of encounter.

Our demolition of Man ure and their subsequent meltdown has also shown the rest of the league the methodology to take them apart and that augers well for Liverpool. I'll admit that not all teams-in the remaining fixtures-can accomplish this but those with the capability now have a better formula which means that Man U will lose at least one and draw a couple more (keeping my fingers crossed).

So I hope we will have the league wrapped up by May 16...
What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? You must be the change you want to see in the world.
    -Mahatma Gandhi

Offline boss

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • When I grow up I want to be Dennis Lawrence
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #471 on: March 24, 2009, 10:54:40 AM »
Friedel red card overturned
Press Association
2 hours ago

Aston Villa goalkeeper Brad Friedel has had the red card he received in Sunday's defeat at Liverpool rescinded by the Football Association.

The American was sent off after 63 minutes of the 5-0 drubbing at Anfield after he was adjudged have brought down Fernando Torres after the striker burst through on goal.

Villa's appeal was upheld on Tuesday, meaning Friedel will be available for their next Barclays Premier League game at Manchester United on April 5.

The news is a boost for Martin O'Neill's men, whose bid to finish in a Champions League place has faltered in recent weeks.

They are currently fifth, three points behind fourth-placed Arsenal.

Copyright © 2009 The Press Association. All rights reserved.

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #472 on: March 24, 2009, 01:51:28 PM »
Friedel red card overturned
Press Association
2 hours ago

Aston Villa goalkeeper Brad Friedel has had the red card he received in Sunday's defeat at Liverpool rescinded by the Football Association.

The American was sent off after 63 minutes of the 5-0 drubbing at Anfield after he was adjudged have brought down Fernando Torres after the striker burst through on goal.

Villa's appeal was upheld on Tuesday, meaning Friedel will be available for their next Barclays Premier League game at Manchester United on April 5.

The news is a boost for Martin O'Neill's men, whose bid to finish in a Champions League place has faltered in recent weeks.

They are currently fifth, three points behind fourth-placed Arsenal.

Copyright © 2009 The Press Association. All rights reserved.

Happy to see that good sense prevailed in this instance^^^^

Offline darrel3000

  • Full Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Go T&T Go!
    • View Profile
    • Professional Audio Sales & Live Event Production
New Version in honor of Hillsborough: Fields of Anfield Road
« Reply #473 on: March 26, 2009, 06:10:09 PM »
Here is the lyrics for those who wish to sing along, in BOLD Type is the new lyrics.
Listen to the video for free here http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N163752090326-0810.htm

The Fields of Anfield Road (Hillsborough version‘09)

Outside the Shankly Gates
I heard a Kopite calling :
Shankly they have taken you away
But you left a great eleven
Before you went to heaven
Now it's glory round the Fields of Anfield Road.
All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
Stevie Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road
Outside the Paisley Gates
I heard a Kopite calling
Paisley they have taken you away..
But You led the great eleven
Back in Rome in seventy seven
And the redmen they are still playing the same way
All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
Stevie Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

NEW:
Beside the Hillsborough flame
I heard a Kopite mourning
Why so many taken on that day
Justice has never been done
But their memory will carry on
There’ll be glory round the fields of Anfield road

All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
Stevie Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
About the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
Stevie Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
About the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

The glory round the fields of Anfield road…
What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? You must be the change you want to see in the world.
    -Mahatma Gandhi

Offline darrel3000

  • Full Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Go T&T Go!
    • View Profile
    • Professional Audio Sales & Live Event Production
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #474 on: April 04, 2009, 09:40:02 AM »
come on you mighty reds.
What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? You must be the change you want to see in the world.
    -Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Feliziano

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3146
  • www.TheWarriorNation.com
    • View Profile
    • The Warrior Nation
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #475 on: April 04, 2009, 11:32:10 AM »
come on fellas be patient..allyuh knocking good
doh get frustrated with Schwarzer and then hitting the woodwork 4 times
maybe we could sub Lucas, bring on Riera and send Kuyt up front with Torres

btw what ah tell allyuh de other day..Dossena go make ah good left winger/forward  ;)
Feliz
Warrior Nation Secretary & Membership Officer
http://www.TheWarriorNation.com

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #476 on: April 04, 2009, 11:35:38 AM »
come on fellas be patient..allyuh knocking good
doh get frustrated with Schwarzer and then hitting the woodwork 4 times
maybe we could sub Lucas, bring on Riera and send Kuyt up front with Torres

btw what ah tell allyuh de other day..Dossena go make ah good left winger/forward  ;)

Hit every part ah de goal but de back ah de blasted net.

Offline boss

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2159
  • When I grow up I want to be Dennis Lawrence
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #477 on: April 04, 2009, 12:24:24 PM »
Yossi!  ;D

Phew!

Offline Tenorsaw

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 3247
  • YNWA
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #478 on: April 04, 2009, 12:25:00 PM »
Yes...Never-say-die 'Pool

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #479 on: April 04, 2009, 12:27:58 PM »
Snatching victory from the jaws of... uhm... futility, lol

Super sub... super strike.  Kicker boy again, lol.

 

1]; } ?>