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Author Topic: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread  (Read 460125 times)

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giggsy11

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1770 on: February 12, 2012, 09:58:18 AM »
John Barnes and Kevin Keegan. Incredible really.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/n4_Im6kq7uY&amp;feature=player_embedded" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/n4_Im6kq7uY&amp;feature=player_embedded</a>

Barnes sounded like he and Dogleash drink the same kool aid. If Suarez didn't want to shake hands he should have told his manager that, so if Liverpool wanted to avoid this type of negative backlash then they should have started him on the bench. He was useless anyway up until he scored.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 10:05:01 AM by Giggsy11 »

Offline Cantona007

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1771 on: February 12, 2012, 10:05:50 AM »
It's clear that Suarez deceived the club. He indicated that he would go ahead with the handshake and he did not follow through. Ian Ayre and now Kenny Dalglis's statements back this up. Also, apparently it seems that the owners may have gotten involved after an article in the NY Times (speculation).

Anyway, now Kenny Dalglish has apologised:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/print?id=1021098&type=story


Liverpool striker Luis Suarez and manager Kenny Dalglish have both apologised for their actions in the wake of Saturday's game against Manchester United.

Luis Suarez: "I got things wrong" (GettyImages)



Dalglish has moved to condemn Suarez after reviewing the footage of the incident. And he was forced to make an apology of his own for not conducting himself "in a way befitting of a Liverpool manager" during a television interview after the match.

Liverpool's managing director, Ian Ayre, also strongly condemned the player's actions which led to a heated atmosphere throughout the match.

In a statement on the club's official website, Suarez said: "I have spoken with the manager since the game at Old Trafford and I realise I got things wrong.

"I've not only let him down, but also the club and what it stands for and I'm sorry. I made a mistake and I regret what happened.

"I should have shaken Patrice Evra's hand before the game and I want to apologise for my actions. I would like to put this whole issue behind me and concentrate on playing football."

Ayre criticised Suarez for failing to shake his opponent's hand. He added: "We are extremely disappointed Luis Suarez did not shake hands with Patrice Evra before yesterday's game. The player had told us beforehand that he would, but then chose not to do so.

"He was wrong to mislead us and wrong not to offer his hand to Patrice Evra. He has not only let himself down, but also Kenny Dalglish, his teammates and the club. It has been made absolutely clear to Luis Suarez that his behaviour was not acceptable.

"Luis Suarez has now apologised for his actions which was the right thing to do. However, all of us have a duty to behave in a responsible manner and we hope that he now understands what is expected of anyone representing Liverpool Football Club."

Boss Kenny Dalglish then came out to join Ayre in berating the Uruguay international.

"Ian Ayre has made the club's position absolutely clear and it is right that Luis Suarez has now apologised for what happened at Old Trafford," Dalglish said. "To be honest, I was shocked to hear that the player had not shaken hands having been told earlier in the week that he would do.

"But as Ian said earlier, all of us have a responsibility to represent this club in a fit and proper manner and that applies equally to me as Liverpool manager.

"When I went on TV after yesterday's game I hadn't seen what had happened, but I did not conduct myself in a way befitting of a Liverpool manager during that interview and I'd like to apologise for that."

It follows a negative reaction in the USA to the latest incident. The New York Times said Liverpool's Boston-based owners, Fenway Sports Group, need to act in order to 'repair the club's global image'.

Leading with the headline "Another Ugly Incident Mars Liverpool's Good Name'', the Times wrote: "If the Fenway Sports Group is to be the responsible team owner in soccer that it has proved to be in baseball, it needs to get hold of Liverpool, its club in England's Premier League, and repair its global image fast.

"On Saturday, Liverpool lost at Manchester United, 2-1, allowing United to temporarily move into first place in the Premier League. There is no disgrace in such a loss; United, the defending English champion, is vying to keep that title this season, and it very rarely loses at home.

"But there was disgrace, witnessed by television viewers around the world, in the refusal of Liverpool's Luis Suarez to shake the hand of United's Patrice Evra before kick-off.''

The article concluded by saying: "It is time for John Henry and Tom Werner, leaders of the Fenway Group that controls Liverpool, to state clearly the direction the team will take on this issue.''

Uruguayan newspaper El Pais wrote: "Suarez was among the final players in the team. And the awaited moment arrived and created tension for several seconds. Without hesitation, Suarez avoided the hand of Evra and did not greet him."
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Offline Observer

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1772 on: February 12, 2012, 10:13:09 AM »
John Barnes and Kevin Keegan. Incredible really.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/n4_Im6kq7uY&amp;feature=player_embedded" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/n4_Im6kq7uY&amp;feature=player_embedded</a>

Barnes sounded like he and Dogleash drink the same kool aid. If Suarez didn't want to shake hands he should have told his manager that, so if Liverpool wanted to avoid this type of negative backlash then they should have started him on the bench. He was useless anyway up until he scored.


I thought John Barnes spoke very well.
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giggsy11

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1773 on: February 12, 2012, 10:24:17 AM »
John Barnes and Kevin Keegan. Incredible really.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/n4_Im6kq7uY&amp;feature=player_embedded" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/n4_Im6kq7uY&amp;feature=player_embedded</a>

Barnes sounded like he and Dogleash drink the same kool aid. If Suarez didn't want to shake hands he should have told his manager that, so if Liverpool wanted to avoid this type of negative backlash then they should have started him on the bench. He was useless anyway up until he scored.


I thought John Barnes spoke very well.

He lost me at the end when he shared that he felt that they were making a big deal about Saurez not shaking hands and there are more important things to worry about.

Offline Cantona007

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1774 on: February 12, 2012, 10:57:52 AM »
Latest... United have thanked Liverpool for the apologies issued after the game and indicated they want to move on...

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2012/Feb/manchester-united-statement-on-liverpool-apology.aspx
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 11:00:01 AM by Cantona007 »
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Offline kev

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1775 on: February 12, 2012, 11:13:05 AM »
The handshake thing was debated endlessly this week, including the PFA saying should shake hands and draw a line under it.  So it would appear everybody agreed what would happen, but Suarez changed his mind. 

Liverpool and Daglish have handled this very badly, continued even this week saying he shouldn't of been banned etc.

It appears from today that the owners have finally got involved and it looks like the management of this situation has moved from UK to US, which can only be a good thing. 

The match would of been watched all over the world and the background to the incident brought up to explain the situation again dragging Liverpool into the "racist" argument.  The fact it made the NY Times sports pages says it all really, the owners would of had sponsors, reputation and money in their minds and needed to step in, what I find hard to understand is that it took yesterday to make them do it. 

Suarez is obviously a loose canon and if he had of just said he wasn't going to do it in the first place then all of this would of been avoided.  I doubt very much that he will be playing in England next season.

The good news is I suspect the owners have finally grasped the nettle and will put an absolute stop to dragging this on anymore and will ensure Liverpool keep making the "right" noises or at least stop digging themselves a deeper hole. 

Offline ckhan

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1776 on: February 12, 2012, 12:42:47 PM »
Listening to Talksport Presspass and John Barnes is going off on these presenters, referring to Evra as the new "flavour of the month" and how the press is handling it. You can feel the presenters being uncomfotable about the interview.
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Offline Feliziano

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1778 on: February 12, 2012, 08:33:03 PM »
With all the media attention you mean to tell me they couldn't get an overhead video of the handshake parade?lol
What if it actually showed Evra's hand position as finally coming up as Suarez passed by him?
Imo, Evra is the one who wanted to make a scene, look at him pointing out to the cameras he didn't get his handshake..steups
 
Liverpool shoulda realized they were fighting a losing battle from the start and just cut their losses.
Those apologies were very hollow and had no true feelings in them.

The guy just came to do his job and you could see his soul is tormented.
Personally if I was in Suarez position I wouldnt've shook Evra's hand unless my employer etc had said I had too.
I just don't like it when someone accuses me of something I didn't do or lie in my face.

ps Go easy on me Bakes  ;D
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Offline Bakes

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1779 on: February 13, 2012, 12:56:53 AM »
Suarez was very immature, Evra I guess he still upset and didn't handle the situation well.
I like how as Suarez approached Evra the ref was watching like a hawk and moved in quickly to stop Evra from doing anything embarrassing.

Evra almost kill Rio tryin to tackle Suarez.

On the QPR game, looks like when the offender is English the FA will go to great lengths to save face.

I can't really understand the rational in suspending the ritual for one, and insisting it go on for the other.  In my mind both ceremonies should have been observed.... the game bigger than the individuals, and this is a part of the English "game".  That said, remember there were implied death threats (live round mailed) to Ferdinand before that match... maybe that had something to do with it.

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1780 on: February 13, 2012, 12:58:55 AM »
Kev I thought as much. I am just surprised that the League did not anticipate what may potentially happen, give it is Suarez.

Can't see how some Liverpool fans are using this photo to defend Suarez. Saying that Evra is the one who did not accept his hand immediately.



Dred... I battling some of these imps on FB and elsewhere.  I actually removed myself from a couple of them Facebook groups because of some of the so-called "fans" reaction to this racism row.

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1781 on: February 13, 2012, 01:02:59 AM »
Also, apparently it seems that the owners may have gotten involved after an article in the NY Times (speculation).

I wouldn't doubt it... the NYTimes parent company is also a minority owner in FSG, so entirely possible that pressure was brought upon LFC's management from the US ownership.

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1782 on: February 13, 2012, 01:18:27 AM »
I just don't like it when someone accuses me of something I didn't do or lie in my face.

ps Go easy on me Bakes  ;D

It sounds like you actually believe Suarez with he talk that he didn't mean anything by his "negro" comments. I did too at first, but in the wake  of the FA report, the fact that it took them six tries in order to get a straight answer from him as to why he 'pinched' Evra's arm, if he was NOT referring to the color of his skin... his play acting, exaggeration to contact, waving his arms etc.... it all tells me otherwise.  Dude might not be racist, but what is is (and this seems clear to me) is a wind-up merchant.  These South American players very much into gamesmanship and getting into the other player's head is part of that.  He wanted to rile up Evra, not realizing that his comments would get him into trouble. 

The issue with Evra's hand position is a non-starter... by his own admission Suarez is the one who refused the handshake.  It does seem as though Evra hesitated, but look at his eyes... he's looking Suarez dead in his face, whereas, you can't see Suarez eyes, but you can tell he never looks at Evra. So in my mind Evra is seeing that this fella done start ignoring him by not even looking at him to begin with.. hence the delay in extending his arm.  When he realize Suarez serious, then he made the exaggerated grab for Suarez arm to rightly show him up.

I understand some ah allyuh doh like Evra, but it baffles me how people keep trying to vilify him... calling him a liar, saying he's made racism charges before (not true) and now that he didn't want to shake Suarez' hand.  From the statements by the club and the player... it should be clear who was in the wrong.  Liverpool made asses of themselves over this entire affair... Suarez has no credibility with me anymore, from the fact that the IRC panel found him to not be credible, to the questioning during the hearings, to boldface lying to his manager knowing full well he had no intentions of shaking hands... dude is a pathetic individual and I'd sooner see them sell him than root for him.

Offline kev

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1783 on: February 13, 2012, 04:09:29 AM »
Peong,

I can understand how you can think because Terry is English the FA have sorted it out, but thats not the reason. 

I suspect they asked about QPR game handshake and were told it wasn't going to happen (which imho is fair enough, I can understand it), so rather than it become a farce and apoosible inflamatory / bad PR point they scrapped it for the game. I don't think the reason was because it was Terry.

As for this one given the teams involved and the audience and the situation, denying culpability, making it a running sore, the FA, Prem and PFA all wanted to put it to bed and move on.  The same debates would of happened with this as the QPR game and Suarez and Evra must of agreed to shake hands, otherwise it would of been cancelled or start Suarez on the bench.  The last thing I think anybody would of wanted, particularly with so many people watching is the farce that happened.  Suarez either had a change of mind at the last minute or agreed with no intention of going through with it.

Of course the owners, shareholders are going to get involved, it showed Liverpool in a bad light, brought the racism thing back to the foreground, which I am sure their sponsors are far from happy with, afterall they don't pay all that money (and its big money) to be associated with what can appear to the public an unsporting, racist friendly team.  They will run a mile and I will guarantee they will make their feelings known to the owners. It was handled badly from the start and went downhill from there, its now just damage limitation.

Offline JDB

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1784 on: February 13, 2012, 08:31:26 AM »
I have so much to say on this because I been staying away for a while. Sorry if it end up as a long post.

Observer –
The FA di make changes in anticipation of trouble. Usually the Home team walsk along the away line and the ref is in the middle of the linesmen. This time Dowd was the closest official and they had Liverpool walk along the United line. With Evra as captain this gave Dowd prime position and he was all over the handshake. If United had walked Evra would have met Suarez at the end of th eline and who knows what mighta happen. Evra real wring up he face at Suarez but Dowd was on spot to keep things in check.

Chow –
The handshake has been a hot topic of debate in the UK. Mcmanaman and Darke were probably just weighing in. The whole team line-up handshake is relatively new. It used to be just captains shaking hands at the toss. I don’t know when things switch but it was definitely sometime during the EPL era. I understand those who question the sincerity or usefulness of the pre-game handshake as currently constituted.  As a player I used to seek out men to shake hands after a game and it is much more meaningful, despite being less complete. The problem with the current arrangement is that is becoming an occasion to make a public statement and is distracting. The FA kinda make a rod for they back by cancelling the Chelsea - QPR one last month.

Ferguson and Evra’s actions –
Coulda taken the high ground and kept their own counsel one more time on this issue. Ferguson was out of order to comment on Suaez role at Liverpool. Much better to leave that for them to ponder. Evra also should have ignored Suarez. At least Ferguson was able to criticise Evra for doing that.

The Apology –
It is what it is. I don’t think it is any more hollow than anything else in PR. When Cantona went wild United banned him for 3 months immediately. Obviously they were taking in front before the FA and courts got involved but you can’t fault the actaion. As for Liverpool, you can’t say that they don’t mean it or it is insincere without seeing what the future holds. Up to this point Liverpool have been unapologetic so there was no lack of sincerity…from the t-shirst to Dalglish’s constant harping on the ban everybody knew where there stall was set. Even with the apology it is clear that that Dalglish and Suarez still not apologiziing to Evra for the original incident, but that is old news.
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Offline JDB

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1785 on: February 13, 2012, 08:39:52 AM »
Liverpool Fans –

I believe that fans are fans. Every teams fans are obnoxiuos braggarts when they winning and out of touch whingers when they losing. On the internet and on phone-ins all clubs have a vocal minority that speak the loudest and make the least sense. History and local culture do give us differences and here is where Liverpool, with its unique history, economics and demographics set itself apart.

I have yet to see a more persecuted bunch of fans in England. They take this YNWA thing to such an extreme that  “no matter what shit you say or do… YNWA”. They are especially rabid, unlike the United fans with their very useless and nonsensical green and gold protest Liverpool fans really organzie to impact organizations who they are in contest with, whether it be the Sun, the RBS, Hicks and Gillette, or the fella on World Football Daily who they shut down off Sirius they have shown that is not just a few mouthers on a  message board. For good and for bad they are some diligent agitators.

When Rooney wanted to leave United had a band of idiots who show up in balaclavas outside his house, so all fans have their lunatic fringe. But even if you take away the fringe Liverpool’s fans have a core that is especially blinkered.

Common themes among the core of this support which Bakes could probably attest to…

Evra is making this all up.
Not that Suarez said something that Evra mis-interpreted. Not that Suarez said something and Evra has thin skin. That Evra is a lying, thing c*nt who is trying to get one over on Liverpool.

Ferguson is driving Evra on to damage Liverpool ( a club in 7 place, out of Europe and hasn’t won a title for 20 years. If this was all a plot to gain competitive advantage wouldn’t it make more sense for Ferguson and Evra to do it against City? But I digress.

Ferguson has the FA and the media in his pocket.
He is in total control. Nevermind the fact that neutral who usually wouldn’t back a more successful side and who have no real skin in the game tend to think that Liverpool have handled this badly, wheih is a generous description if you ask me.

If you not in lockstep with the “Suarez is wronged” line of thought you are not a supporter you are a follower.
As as result there is no real space for a dissneting voice among Liverpool fans and one hyperbolic rant gets trumped by another…hence the prevailing Evra/FA/Ferguson/Media/Public conspiracy theory. The core is now disappointed that the owers sold them out and are willing to bend over and take it from the Evra/FA/Ferguson/Media.

Suarez is a saint.
Now this is the real head scratcher. Suarez is a player who bite a sweaty man neck. Whatever the provocation or circumstance that is beyond the pale for football conduct. To me that way worse than throwing talk for a man. With that on his record and as an example of his character, how is it that every Liverpool fan is enough of a linguist to explain defeinitively that Suarez used the word Negro in a  non-pejorative manner. A lot of Cantona references come up in the past few days but imagine if the majority of United fans were adamant that ins spite of his past history of bust-ups, walk-outs and red-cards that Cantona was an innocent in his attack on Matthew Simmons in 1995.

Just like the words for Evra I think the handshake is a small thing for a man-biter. When I hear about it all I thought was “stay classy Suarez”. Seeing it it did look bad but even so if he determined not to hsake hands that is his right. But his actions were counter to what his manager and club wanted. Even after it being known that he screwed over Dalglish and his own club the core of these Liverpool fans not willing to concede that Suarez might be untrustworthy.

“Kenny”.
Much of the fan response to this is predicated on “King Kenny”s response . Dalglish was the best Scottish player of all time, a playing legend for Liverpool and guided the club through its most trying period ever. For that he is a God but the flipside of that is the argument that pervades Liverpool fans’ response. “Kenny went through Heysel and Hillsborough and if he believes Suarez is innocent then it has to be so”.

This has been compounded by Dalglish’s irresponsible references to “we know what is not in the report” meaning that fans who could now discount the report (the closest thing we have to an impartial analysis of the incident) completely because Kenny says (without saying anything) that Suarez is wronged. I even hear John Aldridge parroting the sme BS on the BBC yesterday morning. When asked directly what is this behind the scenes knowledge his response “he cannot say, but Liverpool will probably come out with it when they see fit”. What is the point of that? To drag the issue up again, months in the future?

When Dalglish, despite “knowing” so much does not appeal, the fans still don’t question any of it because it is Kenny Dalglish. As much as I think the calls for Ferguson to retire back in the mid 2000’s were wrong you have to be thankful that there could be that kind of debate. With Dlaglish there is such a free pass even in this thread. I remember Omar asking about Dalglish vs Hodgson and the answer was the team needs time and players but you look at the 100M spent on players and you have to say that if Liverpool doesn’t have players why isn’t Dalglish getting blame for buying Downing, Henderson and Carroll for 70M. Even with Carroll it is “Dalglish have a way with diffiuclt players”…”based on what”… “he’s Kenny Dalglish”.
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Offline JDB

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1786 on: February 13, 2012, 08:56:16 AM »
Finally on Barnes. I heard him on BBC and talksport and his is a very nuanced response.

Firstly, he clearly feels aggrieved at the stuff he had to go through. He makes the point that the reponse to all of this is insincere. He thinks that the English haven’t moved on in race relations, just that they have legislated such that people just don’t say how they feel. He makes the analogy that murder and theft are outlawed but still happen, likewise racism will not be eradicated by legislation but by education. He also used the dearth of black managers as an example of racism still be prevalent.

Barnes is a very intelligent fella. His idea is to educate that race is a non-existant fiction with no genetic basis, contrived 600 years ago to justify colonization and slavery. In the past I have heard him with similar high-thinking concepots about Nationalism as an evil and that nothing good comes from the geopolitcal borders that we have between people.

Where he loses some points and comes off as a staucnh Liverpool apologist is when he says that none of the journalists said or dis anything back in his time. When the response is “true but something is being written now” his retort was that “it is not the right thing being done, that banning Suarez and Terry does not solve anything”. He also doesn’t blame Kenny for what Suarez failed to do, even though admitting that he should have done it, but then refuses to say whether Liverpool should punish Suarez internally.

I also disgree with his rejection of ideas like affirmative action as a solution. For all its flaws AA forces people to work with groups who they would otherwise not consider, encounter or associate with. This forced socialization can act as an inetrface for people to broaden their ideas and understand that the differences they see in race and colour are artificial and the differences in culture are natural. Bit by bit, over time those ideas spread to remove prejudices, very slow process but it is an approach with some merit.
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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1787 on: February 13, 2012, 09:56:56 AM »
So what I going and do with my two Suarez shirts? ;D  Somebody gotta bring some smiles outta this shit.  I say we sell the fella in the summer and move on.  He really took it to new heights by his asinine behavior on Saturday.

Offline kev

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1788 on: February 13, 2012, 10:20:56 AM »
Money = Apologies

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/13/luis-suarez-liverpool-standard-chartered

Luis Suárez handshake row upsets Liverpool sponsors Standard Chartered

Liverpool's US owners and their shirt sponsor have intervened to help defuse the race row surrounding Luis Suárez's refusal to shake Patrice Evra's hand before Liverpool's defeat at Manchester United on Saturday.

Standard Chartered, which pays around £20m a season to sponsor Liverpool, went public with its criticism in a brief statement, saying: "We were very disappointed by Saturday's incident and have discussed our concerns with the club." A person familiar with the matter said: "It was a very robust conversation."

Standard Chartered was attracted to Liverpool by its strong Asian support base. The bank is based in London but makes almost all its profits in Asia. Most of its staff are in Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

The BBC reported that the Fenway Sports Group, which bought the club in 2010 and owns the Boston Red Sox baseball team, had said an apology was necessary. A spokesman for Liverpool declined to comment on the reports that pressure had been brought to bear.

The Football Association, which imposed the eight-match ban, will take no action over Suárez's refusal to shake hands because it is not a disciplinary issue.

The Liverpool striker apologised on Sunday for refusing the handshake before his team's 2-1 loss at Old Trafford and his manager Kenny Dalglish also said sorry for his post-match reaction when challenged over the snub. Suárez was returning to the Liverpool starting lineup for the first time since serving an eight-match ban for racially abusing Evra during a match in October.



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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1789 on: February 13, 2012, 10:27:16 AM »
They should just scrap the team handshakes, skippers and officials is enough for me.

Whatever goodwill intentions the FA had has been erased.
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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1790 on: February 13, 2012, 10:43:31 AM »
“Kenny”.
Much of the fan response to this is predicated on “King Kenny”s response . Dalglish was the best Scottish player of all time


Dennis Law may have something to say about that ;D

Its quite clear that King Kenny's absence from the game, has left him unprepared for modern media demands.
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Offline fish

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1791 on: February 13, 2012, 11:49:43 AM »
If I was Suarez and I felt like I didn't do anything wrong, I definitely was not gonna shake Evra hand. No way. And Evra made it worse in trying to pull him back. For what?? If you overs it, and he walk pass you, leave d man.

Some views from South America before the game was that the story has been mainly one sided out of ENgland. That what Suarez did was some heckling that was meant to always stay inside the game. That the FA banning Suarez was too much and one sided. Now I know their media rel like all kinda scene. And I agree. The equivalent of Suarez calling Evra is similar to if I say Indian! while we sweating. However, as part of the game, yes, he tried to get into Evra's head, but it wasn't intended to be racially discriminating. That being said, Suarez was charged. If in the report it is noted that Evra then said something to Suarez along the same lines of being racist, then why Evra was not charged as well?  This isn't payback. It don't work that way. You respond, you get punishment too and that's how it always has been. The difference between both parties here is that Suarez did it without intention, Evra did. No one can deny that fact at all.

I am firmly against racism. And I do not agree with Suarez smashing the ball into the stands and all them kinda heights because that shouldn't have been, no matter how frustrating. Suarez is no saint but he has not deserved the punishment nor scrutiny he received leading up to the game. Also he should have told Kenny and the club that he was not gonna shake Evra's hand before the game. However, I believe this is another FA and English media no-ball wicket. Suarez and Liverpool fought a losing battle based on something that shouldn't have even been.

Offline Bakes

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1792 on: February 13, 2012, 12:03:47 PM »
Even with Carroll it is “Dalglish have a way with diffiuclt players”…”based on what”… “he’s Kenny Dalglish”.


Actually, that was said with regards to Bellamy... and it was spot on, if I must say so myself.  Also, Kenny and Hodgson... no comparison.  Same standing in the table but the team is vastly improved and plays like it.  No comparison.

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1793 on: February 13, 2012, 12:13:13 PM »
If I was Suarez and I felt like I didn't do anything wrong, I definitely was not gonna shake Evra hand. No way. And Evra made it worse in trying to pull him back. For what?? If you overs it, and he walk pass you, leave d man.

Some views from South America before the game was that the story has been mainly one sided out of ENgland. That what Suarez did was some heckling that was meant to always stay inside the game. That the FA banning Suarez was too much and one sided. Now I know their media rel like all kinda scene. And I agree. The equivalent of Suarez calling Evra is similar to if I say Indian! while we sweating. However, as part of the game, yes, he tried to get into Evra's head, but it wasn't intended to be racially discriminating. That being said, Suarez was charged. If in the report it is noted that Evra then said something to Suarez along the same lines of being racist, then why Evra was not charged as well? This isn't payback. It don't work that way. You respond, you get punishment too and that's how it always has been. The difference between both parties here is that Suarez did it without intention, Evra did. No one can deny that fact at all.

I am firmly against racism. And I do not agree with Suarez smashing the ball into the stands and all them kinda heights because that shouldn't have been, no matter how frustrating. Suarez is no saint but he has not deserved the punishment nor scrutiny he received leading up to the game. Also he should have told Kenny and the club that he was not gonna shake Evra's hand before the game. However, I believe this is another FA and English media no-ball wicket. Suarez and Liverpool fought a losing battle based on something that shouldn't have even been.

Did you read the f**king report??

I real starting to lose patience seeing the same inaccurate shit being repeated over and over.  Is like the f**king Stepford Fans over on these LFC messageboards.  Suarez claims that Evra called him "sudaca"... the panel considered the allegation and found that there was no credibility to it... therefore no basis to charge Evra.  Half the people who dismissing the IRC report either didn't read it or don't understand what they read, but happy to dismiss it all the same.

f**k what the South Americans think... look at how they treat blacks in their own countries and you'll have all the context you need for understanding their defense of the indefensible.  It matters not what Suarez meant, this too was addressed in the report.  In fact it was the critical argument on which both sides hinged their argument and LFC lost.... for good reason.  For disciplinary purposes you can't rely on what the player intended, else man could always say "yeah ah mash him up and get red carded... but ah didn't mean it".  You have to look to the player's actions and judge it objectively, not subjectively.  Looking at ALL of the evidence objectively, including Suarez' lack of credibility, it becomes clear that he used "negro" in a provocative sense.  Regardless how innocuous that is, in England that is racial abuse.  End of story.

Offline dinho

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1794 on: February 13, 2012, 02:09:22 PM »
Excellent stuff there JDB.
         

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1795 on: February 13, 2012, 05:03:35 PM »
How it wasn't a problem when Wayne Bridge didn't shake JT hand. Race wasn't an issue?
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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1796 on: February 13, 2012, 09:27:23 PM »
How it wasn't a problem when Wayne Bridge didn't shake JT hand. Race wasn't an issue?

Was the issue as potentially divisive as race in that case?  Was there as much animosity on the messageboards, indicative of a potentially flammable situation in the stands? Did Bridge give every assurance that he would shake Terry's hand then failed to follow thru? 

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1797 on: February 13, 2012, 10:45:58 PM »
Finally on Barnes. I heard him on BBC and talksport and his is a very nuanced response.

Firstly, he clearly feels aggrieved at the stuff he had to go through. He makes the point that the reponse to all of this is insincere. He thinks that the English haven’t moved on in race relations, just that they have legislated such that people just don’t say how they feel. He makes the analogy that murder and theft are outlawed but still happen, likewise racism will not be eradicated by legislation but by education. He also used the dearth of black managers as an example of racism still be prevalent.

Barnes is a very intelligent fella. His idea is to educate that race is a non-existant fiction with no genetic basis, contrived 600 years ago to justify colonization and slavery. In the past I have heard him with similar high-thinking concepots about Nationalism as an evil and that nothing good comes from the geopolitcal borders that we have between people.

Where he loses some points and comes off as a staucnh Liverpool apologist is when he says that none of the journalists said or dis anything back in his time. When the response is “true but something is being written now” his retort was that “it is not the right thing being done, that banning Suarez and Terry does not solve anything”. He also doesn’t blame Kenny for what Suarez failed to do, even though admitting that he should have done it, but then refuses to say whether Liverpool should punish Suarez internally.

I also disgree with his rejection of ideas like affirmative action as a solution. For all its flaws AA forces people to work with groups who they would otherwise not consider, encounter or associate with. This forced socialization can act as an inetrface for people to broaden their ideas and understand that the differences they see in race and colour are artificial and the differences in culture are natural. Bit by bit, over time those ideas spread to remove prejudices, very slow process but it is an approach with some merit.


There IS intelligent life on this forum.......

How it wasn't a problem when Wayne Bridge didn't shake JT hand. Race wasn't an issue?

....there is youth, too.


Not because a man ears long and he teet' long dat it make him a Jackass!

Offline elan

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1798 on: February 13, 2012, 11:05:16 PM »
Finally on Barnes. I heard him on BBC and talksport and his is a very nuanced response.

Firstly, he clearly feels aggrieved at the stuff he had to go through. He makes the point that the reponse to all of this is insincere. He thinks that the English haven’t moved on in race relations, just that they have legislated such that people just don’t say how they feel. He makes the analogy that murder and theft are outlawed but still happen, likewise racism will not be eradicated by legislation but by education. He also used the dearth of black managers as an example of racism still be prevalent.

Barnes is a very intelligent fella. His idea is to educate that race is a non-existant fiction with no genetic basis, contrived 600 years ago to justify colonization and slavery. In the past I have heard him with similar high-thinking concepots about Nationalism as an evil and that nothing good comes from the geopolitcal borders that we have between people.

Where he loses some points and comes off as a staucnh Liverpool apologist is when he says that none of the journalists said or dis anything back in his time. When the response is “true but something is being written now” his retort was that “it is not the right thing being done, that banning Suarez and Terry does not solve anything”. He also doesn’t blame Kenny for what Suarez failed to do, even though admitting that he should have done it, but then refuses to say whether Liverpool should punish Suarez internally.

I also disgree with his rejection of ideas like affirmative action as a solution. For all its flaws AA forces people to work with groups who they would otherwise not consider, encounter or associate with. This forced socialization can act as an inetrface for people to broaden their ideas and understand that the differences they see in race and colour are artificial and the differences in culture are natural. Bit by bit, over time those ideas spread to remove prejudices, very slow process but it is an approach with some merit.


There IS intelligent life on this forum.......

How it wasn't a problem when Wayne Bridge didn't shake JT hand. Race wasn't an issue?

....there is youth, too.

Simple are we.

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Re: "You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread
« Reply #1799 on: February 13, 2012, 11:06:14 PM »
How it wasn't a problem when Wayne Bridge didn't shake JT hand. Race wasn't an issue?

Was the issue as potentially divisive as race in that case?  Was there as much animosity on the messageboards, indicative of a potentially flammable situation in the stands? Did Bridge give every assurance that he would shake Terry's hand then failed to follow thru? 

lol...sounds like the early 1900s
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