"You'll Never Walk Alone" - de Official Liverpool thread

[Bakes]

True, but he's been at Wigan for three years.  Shows how much time it takes to impart your philosophy throughtout a club structure.  You're probably right, in that Rodgers inherited the squad more equipped to adopt his coaching philosophy and style of play.  Steve Bruce doesn't really play attractive football, and Martinez was basically reconstructing that squad.

I was reading you and JDB post and wondering if allyuh crazy.  I'd have to go back and check the roster, but I believe Mose is correct.  We can  all agree that Rodgers overachieved with Swansea.  But again I ask... who has Martinez had? Look at Nzogbia and what he do for Villa this season?  And he was supposedly (even I buy de hype) one of the best free agents this past off season.  Rodallega? When last he do anything?  Victor Moses is a decent player... Beausejour too... but he only join in January.

I mean heck... look at frigging madman Dave Whelan, who was trying to manage LFC in the press all week for FSG.  He is supportive of Martinez but has that really tranferred on the pitch as well?  I think Martinez work wonders with that patchwork side he have personally... but I always up front in acknowledging my bias.  I think he's a very smart coach and I think he tries to play the game the right way.  I'd have to say the same about Rodgers (even though I know less about him), but one Premier League season is hardly enough of a yardstick by which to measure his ability.

[Tenorsaw]

True, but he's been at Wigan for three years.  Shows how much time it takes to impart your philosophy throughtout a club structure.  You're probably right, in that Rodgers inherited the squad more equipped to adopt his coaching philosophy and style of play.  Steve Bruce doesn't really play attractive football, and Martinez was basically reconstructing that squad.

I was reading you and JDB post and wondering if allyuh crazy.  I'd have to go back and check the roster, but I believe Mose is correct.  We can  all agree that Rodgers overachieved with Swansea.  But again I ask... who has Martinez had? Look at Nzogbia and what he do for Villa this season?  And he was supposedly (even I buy de hype) one of the best free agents this past off season.  Rodallega? When last he do anything?  Victor Moses is a decent player... Beausejour too... but he only join in January.

I mean heck... look at frigging madman Dave Whelan, who was trying to manage LFC in the press all week for FSG.  He is supportive of Martinez but has that really tranferred on the pitch as well?  I think Martinez work wonders with that patchwork side he have personally... but I always up front in acknowledging my bias.  I think he's a very smart coach and I think he tries to play the game the right way.  I'd have to say the same about Rodgers (even though I know less about him), but one Premier League season is hardly enough of a yardstick by which to measure his ability.

Bakes, results speak, albeit over time; problem is that Rodgers has only one season to attest for his record as a manager in the EPL. In fairness (and Lawrenson basically came out and said the same), we're taking a risk by hiring a manager with probable great upside potential, but who's only had one season at the helm in the EPL.  How many a Championship manager have we seen tumble, after having a great first season in the EPL: many.  One thing I like about Rodgers is his drive to continuously improve and learn from what's going on in the continent.  He stated that his summer sabbatical would be to spend some time with the Spanish coaching staff as they get ready for the Euro and observe their preparations and coaching approach.  He does this at the end of every season.  You could see that he embraces the continental school of thought in his coaching philosophy.  He can only get better, but with a young coach like that at the helm, I think we'll need a sporting director with considerable experience.  Looks like Rodgers will get a say in that appointment, according to press reports, so that is not that bad of a situation. 

[Bakes]

Bakes, results speak, albeit over time; problem is that Rodgers has only one season to attest for his record as a manager in the EPL. In fairness (and Lawrenson basically came out and said the same), we're taking a risk by hiring a manager with probable great upside potential, but who's only had one season at the helm in the EPL.  How many a Championship manager have we seen tumble, after having a great first season in the EPL: many.  One thing I like about Rodgers is his drive to continuously improve and learn from what's going on in the continent.  He stated that his summer sabbatical would be to spend some time with the Spanish coaching staff as they get ready for the Euro and observe their preparations and coaching approach.  He does this at the end of every season.  You could see that he embraces the continental school of thought in his coaching philosophy.  He can only get better, but with a young coach like that at the helm, I think we'll need a sporting director with considerable experience.  Looks like Rodgers will get a say in that appointment, according to press reports, so that is not that bad of a situation. 

I actually agree with 99% of what you're saying here, was more defending my boy Martinez' record. In my gut I think that Rodgers will be okay. You mention something I actually forgot about which is his close working relationship with the Spanish coaching staff, and his embrace of the continental style of football. I think this is something that I appreciate most about him, he is not so arrogant as to think that the English style is the only style to play.

One of the things that I liked most about Martinez was the potential for him to introduce a more Spanish style of football to Liverpool, but in light of what you mention I think Rodgers can do the same. Posting from my phone, so EOE.

[JDB]

I really like Martinez but he has had at least as much to work with as Rodgers.

Martinez has had three years there and hasn’t moved the side on, in terms of league performance, from where Bruce had them. After three years to recruit players, the fact that he is still working with scraps is partly down to his skill in the transfer market. He actually hasn’t done too bad looking at the way he has turned over the squad from Bruce but his failure to identify premiership quality striking talent is a big negative, Boselli and Scotty just wasn’t good enough.

Now I think that this year was a turning point for Martinez. He start playing a new system and the best players in the side (Al Habsi, Moses, Maloney, Beausjour, Caldwell, MCCarthy) are all his players. Wigan could aspire to do what Swansea did this past season and be a solid mid-table team, which would be phenomenal.

But Rodgers just did that after building his team for a similar 3 years. I don’t see much difference between the two at this point. They are both unproven at a big club and mostly potential. Credit to Liverpool for going outside the big name box though.

[Mose]

I really like Martinez but he has had at least as much to work with as Rodgers.

Martinez has had three years there and hasn’t moved the side on, in terms of league performance, from where Bruce had them. After three years to recruit players, the fact that he is still working with scraps is partly down to his skill in the transfer market. He actually hasn’t done too bad looking at the way he has turned over the squad from Bruce but his failure to identify premiership quality striking talent is a big negative, Boselli and Scotty just wasn’t good enough.

Now I think that this year was a turning point for Martinez. He start playing a new system and the best players in the side (Al Habsi, Moses, Maloney, Beausjour, Caldwell, MCCarthy) are all his players. Wigan could aspire to do what Swansea did this past season and be a solid mid-table team, which would be phenomenal.

But Rodgers just did that after building his team for a similar 3 years. I don’t see much difference between the two at this point. They are both unproven at a big club and mostly potential. Credit to Liverpool for going outside the big name box though.

Agreed!! Hope the fans give him a decent chance too!

[Tenorsaw]

BIG article on Brendan Rodgers' coaching ethos.  Make no mistake he about it:  he is a student of the Barca philosophy.  He is not your typical British coach.  A real student of the game.  Hope he can implement this philosophy as he did at Swansea.

Brendan Rodgers’ Tactical Approach: Will Liverpool adapt to Tiki-Taka?

http://thepathismadebywalking.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/brendan-rodgers-tactical-approach-explanation-how-will-liverpool-implement-tiki-taka-football/

[Bakes]

Good post Tenor... great read!

[dinho]

Not too sure about this Rodgers appointment but would be happy to be proven wrong.

You could have all the football philosophy and ethos in the world, but if you don't have experience playing alongside, working with and controlling star players, egos and personalities, it could all come to naught i.e. what happened with Andres Villas Boas.

Guardiola for example was a success with Barcelona because apart from having clear ideas about how he wanted to play, he already had a stature and earned respect within the club. Even so, his first order of business was to discard all the disruptive big name personalities in the dressing room, Ronaldinho and Deco (Eto'o as well before he had a last minute change of heart) and bring in players who he knew would play for him. I firmly believe if he had not done that, Barcelona would never end up where they are today.

Rodgers similarly has clear ideas on how football should be played, but he inherited a Swansea team from Martinez that was already on that course and the players he had were no star name players that would be averse to learning.  Compare that with Liverpool with seasoned professionals who have had years of individual success playing a totally different style of football and it looking like pressure. Plenty men in that side who i don't see adapting to that style of play. If I was him, i'd get rid of Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher, Stuart Downing and Andy Carroll from jump.

Carroll especially must be livid, if he thought he wasn't getting enough hoof out long ball last year to jump and play big body business with defenders then this year will be like the Sahara.

[Mose]

Not too sure about this Rodgers appointment but would be happy to be proven wrong.

You could have all the football philosophy and ethos in the world, but if you don't have experience playing alongside, working with and controlling star players, egos and personalities, it could all come to naught i.e. what happened with Andres Villas Boas.

Guardiola for example was a success with Barcelona because apart from having clear ideas about how he wanted to play, he already had a stature and earned respect within the club. Even so, his first order of business was to discard all the disruptive big name personalities in the dressing room, Ronaldinho and Deco (Eto'o as well before he had a last minute change of heart) and bring in players who he knew would play for him. I firmly believe if he had not done that, Barcelona would never end up where they are today.

Rodgers similarly has clear ideas on how football should be played, but he inherited a Swansea team from Martinez that was already on that course and the players he had were no star name players that would be averse to learning.  Compare that with Liverpool with seasoned professionals who have had years of individual success playing a totally different style of football and it looking like pressure. Plenty men in that side who i don't see adapting to that style of play. If I was him, i'd get rid of Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher, Stuart Downing and Andy Carroll from jump.

Carroll especially must be livid, if he thought he wasn't getting enough hoof out long ball last year to jump and play big body business with defenders then this year will be like the Sahara.

If yuh get de rid of dem fellas who yuh left with? Honest question because I seriously cannot think of anyone else besides Reina, Charlie Adam and that asshole of a winger/forward who I can't stand.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot Suarez too and I'm not liking him either at the moment.

[Bakes]

Carragher not in anybody's plans... he hardly played under Dalglish as it was, so mentioning him is moot.  Presumptive to say that Gerrard can't adapt to the style of play that Rodgers favors, especially since he thrived on the passing and movement game under Dalglish and the possession football under Benitez before that. His downfall has been injuries the past two seasons.  Downing and Bellamy can adapt... their's isn't a question of will, but of ability.  Downing can play the possession game, Bellamy I'm not too sure.  Nothing to suggest that Carroll can't adapt either... or Suarez.

Beyond them, there is quality at the back in Johnson, Skrtel, Agger (who prefers possession football) and Enrique... and a budding superstar in Lucas before the knee injury curtailed his season.  Adam and Henderson are middling footballers at this level.  Reina is still quality, every keeper is entitled to a down year, last year was his worst as a professional.  Let's see how he rebounds. If Rodgers can persuade Vorm away from Swansea as rumored... even better.

[Tenorsaw]

Not too sure about this Rodgers appointment but would be happy to be proven wrong.

You could have all the football philosophy and ethos in the world, but if you don't have experience playing alongside, working with and controlling star players, egos and personalities, it could all come to naught i.e. what happened with Andres Villas Boas.

Guardiola for example was a success with Barcelona because apart from having clear ideas about how he wanted to play, he already had a stature and earned respect within the club. Even so, his first order of business was to discard all the disruptive big name personalities in the dressing room, Ronaldinho and Deco (Eto'o as well before he had a last minute change of heart) and bring in players who he knew would play for him. I firmly believe if he had not done that, Barcelona would never end up where they are today.

Rodgers similarly has clear ideas on how football should be played, but he inherited a Swansea team from Martinez that was already on that course and the players he had were no star name players that would be averse to learning.  Compare that with Liverpool with seasoned professionals who have had years of individual success playing a totally different style of football and it looking like pressure. Plenty men in that side who i don't see adapting to that style of play. If I was him, i'd get rid of Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher, Stuart Downing and Andy Carroll from jump.

Carroll especially must be livid, if he thought he wasn't getting enough hoof out long ball last year to jump and play big body business with defenders then this year will be like the Sahara.

Carragher on the way out; no longer a part of first-choice center back pairing.  Worse yet, I could see the emergence of Coates, under Rodgers, as the emphasis is now on technical ability.  Agger is our best CB, if you ask me.  I've always said so, as I have a bias for CBs that can bring the ball out of the back and play like a midfielder.  Carroll may very well be the odd man out under Rodgers, because the ball will be on the turf more than in the air now, although he has shown that he has a good touch for a target guy and drop back into the midfield space and get the ball.  Gerrard could adapt to any style, as he is technically good.

[Trini Madness]

i could be wrong but i heard kuyt just signed a deal with fenerbahce.

[Peong]

i could be wrong but i heard kuyt just signed a deal with fenerbahce.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/69/transfer-zone/2012/06/03/3145813/fenerbahce-announces-signing-of-liverpools-kuyt

[triniairman]

Dos Santos and Dempsey to Liverpool... watch this space!

[Tenorsaw]

i could be wrong but i heard kuyt just signed a deal with fenerbahce.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/69/transfer-zone/2012/06/03/3145813/fenerbahce-announces-signing-of-liverpools-kuyt

Correct, saw it on BBC also.  Hey, we need some fresh faces.  Not too sure Kuyt would fit into Tiki Taka style anyways.

[Bakes]

Correct, saw it on BBC also.  Hey, we need some fresh faces.  Not too sure Kuyt would fit into Tiki Taka style anyways.

Mixed feelings... Kuyt was my favorite Red during his time there, but he deserved better.  The way Kenny treated him in favor of Henderson last season was ridiculous.  True he didn't always perform, but hard to do when you're only getting spotty playing time.  Better for all... sad to say.

[Trini Madness]

Correct, saw it on BBC also.  Hey, we need some fresh faces.  Not too sure Kuyt would fit into Tiki Taka style anyways.

Mixed feelings... Kuyt was my favorite Red during his time there, but he deserved better.  The way Kenny treated him in favor of Henderson last season was ridiculous.  True he didn't always perform, but hard to do when you're only getting spotty playing time.  Better for all... sad to say.

he was one of my favs as well. a real hustler. he'll surely do well in the turkish league.

[dinho]

Suarez race row threatens to re-open as Liverpool player calls team-mate Johnson 'negrito' on Twitter

[Bakes]

Suarez race row threatens to re-open as Liverpool player calls team-mate Johnson 'negrito' on Twitter

Says the print equivalent of Goal.com. 

[Tenorsaw]

Suarez race row threatens to re-open as Liverpool player calls team-mate Johnson 'negrito' on Twitter

Says the print equivalent of Goal.com. 

Pacheco is an a**hole.  If yuh does call de man that, do so amongst yourselves.  Yuh done know de media onto anything with an inkling of a racial tone emanating from LFC.  Now he spending all this time belaboring how he always calls Johnson this in an affectionate way.  It ain't like he just land in the UK either, so he know de crap he doing.

[Bakes]

Pacheco is an a**hole.  If yuh does call de man that, do so amongst yourselves.  Yuh done know de media onto anything with an inkling of a racial tone emanating from LFC.  Now he spending all this time belaboring how he always calls Johnson this in an affectionate way.  It ain't like he just land in the UK either, so he know de crap he doing.

Asshole or not... this hardly threatens to re-open anything, let alone "Suarez" race row.

[Tenorsaw]

Pacheco is an a**hole.  If yuh does call de man that, do so amongst yourselves.  Yuh done know de media onto anything with an inkling of a racial tone emanating from LFC.  Now he spending all this time belaboring how he always calls Johnson this in an affectionate way.  It ain't like he just land in the UK either, so he know de crap he doing.

Asshole or not... this hardly threatens to re-open anything, let alone "Suarez" race row.

Doesn't threaten anything, but it gives the media fuel to carry on with the agenda and sort of infer that there is an inherent racism issue that exists within LFC.  I don't believe Suarez speaks for the entire organization, although the PR response was indeed blotched.  Just saying that the club does not need these types of issues popping up, especially when Pacheco is aware of the small fire that his Twitter comments would stoke.

[Bakes]

Doesn't threaten anything, but it gives the media fuel to carry on with the agenda and sort of infer that there is an inherent racism issue that exists within LFC.  I don't believe Suarez speaks for the entire organization, although the PR response was indeed blotched.  Just saying that the club does not need these types of issues popping up, especially when Pacheco is aware of the small fire that his Twitter comments would stoke.

Well my larger point is that this is nothing but Goal.com drumming up a controversy that's hardly in the making.  I doubt anyone is looking at LFC as though we have a race problem at the club.  Two Latin players hardly a "problem" makes... especially when only one of the comments reasonably can be interpreted as motivated by racial intolerance.  This was an unfortunate choice of words... nothing more.  Not saying that my interpretation is "right", but the fact that this hasn't taken off in the press points to that being the case.

[Tenorsaw]

Doesn't threaten anything, but it gives the media fuel to carry on with the agenda and sort of infer that there is an inherent racism issue that exists within LFC.  I don't believe Suarez speaks for the entire organization, although the PR response was indeed blotched.  Just saying that the club does not need these types of issues popping up, especially when Pacheco is aware of the small fire that his Twitter comments would stoke.

Well my larger point is that this is nothing but Goal.com drumming up a controversy that's hardly in the making.  I doubt anyone is looking at LFC as though we have a race problem at the club.  Two Latin players hardly a "problem" makes... especially when only one of the comments reasonably can be interpreted as motivated by racial intolerance.  This was an unfortunate choice of words... nothing more.  Not saying that my interpretation is "right", but the fact that this hasn't taken off in the press points to that being the case.

"Unfortunate", but to be avoided, is what I'm getting at.  No malice intended by Pacheco at all. 

[Feliziano]

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/lfctour2012

Anybody interested in going any of the Liverpool games in North America?
I'll be heading to the Tottenham game in Baltimore with a couple other forumites.
Flying in Thursday 26th and leaving Sunday morning.
Folks living in the Washington DC area feel free to come support our great club at the match or even hang out for a couple beers before or after just to talk some shit.

[Feliziano]

Welcome to the club Gaston Ramirez!!!
YNWA 

[Bakes]

Welcome to the club Gaston Ramirez!!!
YNWA 

About time!

btw... we buying we tickets this week eh.  Will send out a group message tomorrow.

[mukumsplau]

whats this with rodgers raiding serie a? first gaston then im hearing borini is next? surprisingly borini isnt rated that much in italy..cant understand why prandelli took him over mattia destro...this means that roma may really close in on destro now....was hopin he'd come to juve...

that rodgers building a nice young side..would be glad if he got rid of caroll..

[Bakes]

whats this with rodgers raiding serie a? first gaston then im hearing borini is next? surprisingly borini isnt rated that much in italy..cant understand why prandelli took him over mattia destro...this means that roma may really close in on destro now....was hopin he'd come to juve...

that rodgers building a nice young side..would be glad if he got rid of caroll..

Carroll has a place at Liverpool... maybe not the central role initially imagined for him, but he has a place nonetheless.  This of course, all depends on the philosophy of the coach... and Rodgers prefer a close-control passing game, not suited to Carroll's abilities.  If however there's a way to integrate the passes into the box, particularly crosses from the wings, then Carroll has shown his potential in that area.  As his confidence grew towards the end of the PL season, so too did his productivity.  But he cannot create for himself, and minus quality passes from his team mates his game will always suffer.

[Feliziano]

Like ah jump the gun on Gaston Ramirez lol..he go be there in a timing

anyway welcome to Fabio Borini 
next in line might be Theo Walcott..also woulda rather seen us chase Dembele instead of Dempsey
hopefully Andy Carroll will be staying, but that looks like a long shot now since its very clear that he's no longer wanted.
I going on record and say if we inconsistent and the brand is shit this year..Rodgers should be sacked..he piss me off how he handle the problem of Carroll not being able to supposedly fit into his philoposy.