The night I lost faith

[Bakes]

Did they have the right to protect themselves since the officers did not properly identify themselves?

Ah mean legally would they have had a right to draw weapons on the officers if they did not show any identification?  And getting into a gunfight would not be far off if they did draw weapons.

Ah just trying to think if you in that situation with your family and you do have weapons...would you just line up and hope is just police who not following protocol or would you exercise your right to protect yourself in the face of a threat.
Plenty supposins but I not so sure we that far away from a situation where all them police woulda get shoot after they refuse to show ID after only the very first request.

If they draw the gun on the officer and then they start showing ID...i sure they would end up getting charge for something.  All she needed to take this story over the top was some pictures from the camera phone or something...not sure if she would be allowed to print that but ah mean she could print them and say these unidentified men claim they are police officers, can anyone verify?  

Police are supposed to properly and definitively identify themselves and present a warrant BEFORE entering the home, this is true of both US and English law, which has influenced TnT law.  In fact Dana Seetahal confirmed as much in a follow up article by Ramdass in the Express today.

Would they have had a right to open fire on the cops?  Hard to say, one cannot use unreasonable force and then claim self-defense... so there would have to have been a reasonable threat warranting a gunfight.  The presence of the police itself (even if illegal and their identities unverified) likely would not be sufficient for the homeowner to start shooting.

If they pulled a gun on the unidentified officers it's possible they'd be charged with some violation or the other (in addition to putting their lives on the line)... but unlikey that any sane court would convict them for what would be a reasonable response.

[Organic]

Okay good, let me share something with you all. I was working in the prison. Royal jail Frederick St. Port-of-Spain. A reporter from a newspaper came into the Prison and pretended to be a visitor to a person on death row. Now, when the person gave their name I recognize the name but could not recalled right away where I knew the name. While she (the reporter) was waiting I remember that she was a reporter. She did not recieve a visit, as at the time the means in which she secured the visit was unauthorized.

Two days later there was a big article in the newspaper about her visit and interview with the death row inmate. I read the article and laugh. Even the prisoner was amused. There were many instances with reporters writing articles in the newspaper about what prisoners told them and it not being true.

That's why I say I taking it with a pinch of salt.

Fire bun police, why? I have had many bad run ins with police but, I would not say the police was bad. Yeah they lazy, but most of them try.

That's all nice and good... but it would have to be one hell of a fabrication to say that police came into your home en masse and ransack the place without offering ID's let alone explanation... and needless to say, without a warrant at that.

I not saying she lying or anything, I just taking it with a lil salt.

really take this with a grain of salt...u is a mad man.
she should become a novelist if this all is imagination or her imagination running away.
police act like that cause the bad men in the country act more or less the same. doh care one mudda cc**t.. that being said....its a sad state when
the people who suppose to protect and serve cant do either, and they fail so in style.!!!!

[just cool]

Okay good, let me share something with you all. I was working in the prison. Royal jail Frederick St. Port-of-Spain. A reporter from a newspaper came into the Prison and pretended to be a visitor to a person on death row. Now, when the person gave their name I recognize the name but could not recalled right away where I knew the name. While she (the reporter) was waiting I remember that she was a reporter. She did not recieve a visit, as at the time the means in which she secured the visit was unauthorized.

Two days later there was a big article in the newspaper about her visit and interview with the death row inmate. I read the article and laugh. Even the prisoner was amused. There were many instances with reporters writing articles in the newspaper about what prisoners told them and it not being true.

That's why I say I taking it with a pinch of salt.

Fire bun police, why? I have had many bad run ins with police but, I would not say the police was bad. Yeah they lazy, but most of them try.

That's all nice and good... but it would have to be one hell of a fabrication to say that police came into your home en masse and ransack the place without offering ID's let alone explanation... and needless to say, without a warrant at that.

I not saying she lying or anything, I just taking it with a lil salt.

Like allyuh forgeting about 2 months ago ah lone police officer try to wild up the prime minister or what!!!

I believe the fackin woman!! them police in T&T full ah fackin sh!t, they badding up law bidding citizens and running from dem snatt nose pip squeek criminals leaving dem to ravage the country.

i heard from good sources that ah old men run to ah particular station in town telling the police that there's ah robbery in progress next door to him, the officers chased the man from the station telling him to mind his business and go from here.

he then went to the C.I.D. where he was told that there were no cars available and he should come back tommorrow and make ah report.

now tell me this shyte, i believe the ppl who say dem cops wrong them , after all, 16 million french men can't be wrong!

[Brownsugar]

Just Cool, not too long ago the Acting Commissioner himself had to go into a police station and bouff de officers there for not responding to a trouble call.....another two were suspended in South (Princes Town ah think, stand to be corrected) for the same thing....

Elan, you have had your experience with reporters, I have had my experience with the Police (nothing like what Ms. Ramdass went through, but enough to make mih fed up).....and I repeat....Fire bun for dem right about now!!.....

[Controversial]

anything could happen in trinidad, if police telling a man calling them for help to come pick them up, why the hell is this story so unbelievable? its either allyuh naive or you dont have the sense to understand what really going on in the nation.

[elan]

One thing you always here from prisoners is that the Police lock them up "jus so."  They liming and then the police just grab them and give them case.

My big question is why did the Police go to their house at all? To stop them from printing a newspaper article?

AGAIN I NOT SAYING IT RIGHT, but I looking at different angles.

[dcs]

One thing you always here from prisoners is that the Police lock them up "jus so."  They liming and then the police just grab them and give them case.

My big question is why did the Police go to their house at all? To stop them from printing a newspaper article?

AGAIN I NOT SAYING IT RIGHT, but I looking at different angles.

I think the lady is still waiting on answers to that question and that says a lot.  Fair enough it have another side but time passing and they should be quick to answer if they have any justification.  Either they answer to refute what she is saying or people should be suspended if a preliminary investigation finds any suspicion of major violations.  They have records of who was on duty and who went where and she can identify the officers I am sure.  Now if none of this happen u could only imagine that the orders came from higher up so they in the clear.  They will have no choice but to respond so we all waiting to hear what they have to say.

If this just fizzle and nothing come of it it come like they acknowledging wrongdoing without any remorse. We really need to be following up with issues in this place.  Things that happen 10-15 years ago we should be finding out the outcome.  It have so many things we should be revisiting to see what the outcome was...things that we report big big in the papers today where the same thing happen 10-15 years ago.

[verycute1]

Well

I believe her. ANd I sent her an email last night telling her not to lose faith. And she sent me back a very nice reply which I am including.  I can't help wondering though, if this had happened to B.C Pires, what would we be saying now?



Dear ######,

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your kind words and encouragement, It is deeply appreciated.,
You're right it is time for people to speak out, for too long we have been silent. I am thankful that my own publicity of this ordeal has sparked so many others to come forward.
Please do keep in touch and share your thoughts.
Again, thank you so much, people like yourself motivate me to not give up and cower in fear. Light from me to you, keep smiling,

Anna Ramdass


Edit.... I just went onto the Express Website, and lo and behold, there is my email to her in her column.  I'm glad. As I said before, at least people are talking and where there is talk, there is hope.

[asylumseeker]

Post the column here nah ...

[Bakes]

Post the column here nah ...

...Citizens should stand up

Monday, January 5th 2009
 
 
 Following publication of my ordeal where ten gunmen raided my family home last week in search of drugs and ammunition without a warrant or proper identification, I have been overwhelmed with phone calls and e-mails from people who suffered the same experience. Many of them have requested anonymity for fear of harassment and further abuse.

My own family are terrified and have pleaded that I remain silent.

Even police sources have called, admitting that the service was rife with officers who abuse their power and will even go to a justice of the peace and get a back dated warrant to use against us. It is all very frightening.

Here are some of the responses received:

Mrs Khan, Santa Rosa,

When I read this story in the paper, tears came to eyes because the same thing happened to me.

My husband and I are law-abiding citizens, we struggled to buy our house, we work very hard. Two years ago police came to our house four in the morning with guns. We did not believe they were police and did not let them in until we called the police post and were told they are real police. I was afraid that they would come and plant something in my house so I called all the neighbours before I let them in. They tumbled my entire house, ransacked my bedroom.

They did not show us any search warrant; as a matter of fact we didn't even know we had to ask for one. I reacted the same way you did, I was in tears, even while they were searching our house I was objecting to them being here.

It didn't end there, they came back a month later and did the same thing. It took me a very long time to get over that experience.

Following this we went to Anand Ramlogan who is pursuing legal action for us.


John, Brazil:

I wanted to empathise with you. I understand your pain. Your ordeal was one that only those who have been through it can understand and even then still have more questions than answers.

In May of last year, four weeks before my wedding, I left my house in San Fernando at about 9p.m. to purchase some late dinner. Upon returning home, whilst opening my garage gate, an unmarked vehicle sped up to me with several bright lights pointed directly at me. Three uniformed men, much like you described in your article, approached me, threw me to the ground and started beating me within inches of my life. During this ordeal, they were demanding that I hand over my house keys or they will continue beating me until I stopped moving - whatever that meant. I resisted, ordering them to show me some identification, all the while trying to divert some of their blows away from my face and head. This went on for the longest 15 minutes of my life. They eventually said that they were trying to get their hands on me for a long time. Strange how they never identified me by name or even where I worked.

There were witnesses, pedestrians and motorists, all who I have asked to come forward - of course, this never happened. I got over my pain, got married as planned and left Trinidad for good one week later. My wife and I now live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, where we feel safe. I can never return to Trinidad in fear of being killed by police for being a law-abiding citizen.

I hope you deal with this better than I did. Trinidad used to be a lovely little island when I was growing up - the problem is I grew up and started to see.


Former police officer:

I just finished reading your frightening ordeal and my prayers and thoughts go out to you and your family. As a former police officer, I wish to remain anonymous. This has been going on for years in the Police Service because we felt that we were above the law, which I believe is the reason for the senior officer shooting dead a citizen on Christmas Day over an argument.

Police in Trinidad have this mentality "I is police I could do what I want."

I have been out of the service for 17 years and have continued to track its progress or the lack thereof, and I was totally dismayed. On a recent visit to Trinidad, I deliberately left out my current occupation on my immigration form and was asked by the officer for my occupation. I showed her my credentials, after which she told me "We need people like you back here."

Trinidad and Tobago is not ready for modern-day policing because almost the entire service will be out of a job. If something like that was to happen to a citizen here in the US, worse a reporter, everyone would be on administrative leave pending the outcome of an internal investigation. The US Justice Dept might even get involved to see whether or not your civil rights were violated.


Ryan

It brought tears to my eyes when I read your article about your ordeal with the "Police."

I cannot express how hurt and broken I felt reading your story. I wish there was something I could do to help you and your family. Please, can you keep me updated on any further developments on the issue? I would really like to know the outcome. I would also like to say that you are a very brave and strong person to maintain your composure during the incident. Hope you and your family keep well.


Camille

I sent a link to your article to every Trinidadian that I know living abroad and I have urged them to forward it to all the Trinidadians that they know. The country has gone from bad to worst and it's time for people to do something about it. Trinidadians should not be afraid to speak up for their own rights. Perhaps a mail campaign, email campaign, phone campaign to the powers that be might work, perhaps not. But at least we can try. I am sorry that you had to endure such an experience and I hope that the idiots that put you through this, especially the one at the station, are fired.
 
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article?id=161420484

[Brownsugar]

Former police officer:
Trinidad and Tobago is not ready for modern-day policing because almost the entire service will be out of a job.

They've been trying all sorts of things to modernise the police service.  We paid Mastrofsky millions to help the situation however, according to this guy we threw good money after bad it seems.  I agree with Truetrini's posts in another thread....fire all ah dem....

[dcs]

everyone would be on administrative leave pending the outcome of an internal investigation.

Anybody hear anything further from the authorities on this?
They have to answer.

[asylumseeker]

My wife and I now live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, where we feel safe. I can never return to Trinidad in fear of being killed by police for being a law-abiding citizen.

Imagine that! Feeling safer in Rio.

[Brownsugar]

everyone would be on administrative leave pending the outcome of an internal investigation.

Anybody hear anything further from the authorities on this?
They have to answer.

You expected to hear something??...steups...if the media eh keep up the pressure on the Acting CoP, we'll hear nutten...double steups!!...

[weary1969]

He investigatin

[verycute1]

Yep and I'm sure nothing will come of it.

[Andre]

watch this woman or one of she family members get kidnap, rape or murder for she going public with this...and it go be police who do it.

TT police is d biggest setta criminal in d country after abu bakr & he crew.

[verycute1]

60 CARS SEIZED
Cops crack big racket at Licensing Office
Richard Charan rcharan@trinidadexpress.com
Wednesday, January 7th 2009

A police officer who bought a stolen car, and paid corrupt licensing officials $5,000 to become the legal owner, was one of several people arrested by Fraud Squad officers engaged in dismantling one of the biggest and deepest rackets in Trinidad and Tobago.

The constable's car was one of 60 vehicles seized in a fast-moving investigation into a corrupt network involving some used car dealers, auto repair garages, Licensing Division officials, driving instructors, and a small army of touts working at the gates of the San Fernando, Chaguanas, and Port of Spain Licensing Offices.

The secret investigation broke at 3 a.m. Monday, when there were simultaneous raids at the Ministry of Works and Transport offices.

It was ordered by Acting Commissioner of Police James Philbert. Fraud Squad an Anti-Corruption Bureau officers timed the raids to prevent any chance of documents linked to the registration of stolen Nissan Almeras and B-15 Sentras from vanishing.

Warrants have been signed to search the homes and businesses of prominent people in Central and South Trinidad.

Late yesterday, investigators were raiding the businessplace of an Enterprise car dealer, the Express learned.

One search took place in Carapichaima at nightfall Monday.

It involved policemen who came in two buses, soldiers and members of the Crime Suppression Unit and Guard and Emergency Branch, and eight tow trucks.

Fifteen vehicles were taken from the compound and the garage owner arrested.

The vehicles, B-11s, B-15s, Almeras, Renaults, and Ad Wagons, are impounded at the Vehicle Maintenance Company (VMCOTT), Beetham Gardens.

Police believe the cars taken from murdered taxi drivers Margaret Constantine and Seeram Hanoman ended up in the racket, with a fee of between $5,000 and $10,000 paid to destroy the registration documents of the cars and prepare new paperwork to produce a certified copy with the new owner's name.

The B-15 Sentras belonging to Constantine and Hanoman were never found.

Police say registration fraud is believed to be so big that there may be tens of thousands of vehicles on the nation's roads that were stolen or improperly registered.



******************

Act now, Mr Philbert
Monday, January 5th 2009
   
   
   
 

THE harrowing tale of the rampage at the home of Express political reporter Anna Ramdass by police officers last week is one which should not only make the police administration sit up and take note but act swiftly.

It is an example of how officers in the service have disrespected and dishonoured the good work their seniors have been attempting in rebuilding the tattered image of the service.

By their arrogant, disreputable behaviour these officers have also tremendously undercut the authority which the Police Service Commission has by its own actions signalled lies in the hands of the Acting Commissioner. They have given him a six month extension on his tenure at the helm, precisely on the ground that he is seen to possess the skills for leadership which the battered and bruised service badly needs.

Acting Commissioner Philbert has been nothing if not accommodating a public badly needing to repose faith and confidence in the police service.

Such faith and confidence is what he himself and a line of predecessors before him have been asking of a sceptical, weary public, as an important part of the arsenal needed to beat back the crime wave that has known no bounds.

Members of the Commission must themselves be horrified by the reports of this incident which has now caused another family to lose whatever respect they may have had for members of the police service.

Against the regulations, and in the face of the horrors which hundreds of members of the public face on a daily basis, these officers stormed into a private residence. They refuse and ignore many requests to identify themselves. They stop at nothing in imposing fear and terror on innocent people.

They then walk away empty handed, without as much as an apology to the frightened and abused members of the Ramdass family. They still do not identify themselves officially. This is a family which has suffered such a violation in the past, by persons purporting to be police officers.


Where does an incident such as this leave Assistant Commissioner of Police, Gilbert Reyes, who is on record just in the past year as telling members of the public they have the right to demand identification from police officers.

Is he going to be the one to investigate this despicable incident? How can he look anyone in the eye after this and repeat such advice, without fear of being laughed at?

Behaviour such as this indicates clearly that there are officers in the service who do not take their cue even from the officers at the top of their chain of command.

Simply put, it is a most profound embarrassment to the Acting CoP and the repair job he has been seeking to do.

For the record, this is not by a long shot, any rush to judgment. It is a statement of indignation about how a few bad eggs can continue to spoil the basket. It is also a public call for swift action against this kind of illegal, unacceptable behaviour by officers of the law.

The acting Police Commissioner must act swiftly to address the valid concerns of the Ramdass family and bring the much needed answers to them. Where is the search warrant? Who authorised it? On what basis?

And it must not end there. Those guilty of acting illegally and harassing innocent citizens must be disciplined. Now.