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Author Topic: Human Trafficking.  (Read 40560 times)

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Offline pecan

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #150 on: March 05, 2009, 06:17:49 AM »
Allyuh like real shit..dey eh have no f**king human trafficking in T&T...except for the hoes and dem who coming in for donkey years now...and dat eh really trafficking, dem coming willingly with legs wide open!

secondly it is common sense to put hospital on alert if yuh et reports of chirren trapped in containers!  It is called CISD or critical incident stress debriefing to deal with physical and psochological trauma.  after eartquakes, hurricaes, plane crases etc....the team is assembled.

This jes shows how irresponsible the trashy press is in T&T.  And how trinis like mauvais langue too bad

kill this shit tread

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Offline dcs

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #151 on: March 05, 2009, 06:37:27 AM »

Fertile ground for rumour, panic
Thursday, March 5th 2009
Trinidad Express


   

It was bad enough that some fool would decide to start a rumour that 75 children were found in a 40-foot container, bound for Cuba, at Shed Four of the Port of Port of Spain on Wrightson Road. What was worse was the speed with which the rumour spread around the country. But the worst thing of all was the number of people who, even in the wake of official denials, continued to insist that there was some truth in the rumour and that a massive cover-up was underway.

Up to yesterday, a day after the talk started, people were still calling media houses claiming that they had got the "container children" report from what they considered to be authoritative sources and that we had better pay attention because the next thing that would happen would be that even more children would be spirited out of the country, never to be seen again.

To be sure, the loose, even irresponsible, reporting of some arms of the media contributed to the rumour mill but the reason it found fertile ground lay in the real "missing people" reports that surface from time to time, the most galling in recent times being the still-unsolved disappearance of eight-year-old Leah Lammy who went missing on the very first occasion that she was made to take public transport to find her way home.

Put that in the context of the varying reports that have been put out about the number of people actually gone missing in Trinidad and Tobago over the last few years and the extreme panic reaction to the container story becomes understandable if not exactly excusable, taking children out of schools akin to parental behaviour in the face of a hostile invasion from Mars.

What all this shows up is the view that too many citizens now have of Trinidad and Tobago as a place where just about anything is possible with things falling apart and the centre certainly not holding.

We have asserted before that this is a country that lives on the edge of its nervous energy and whose citizens are losing trust in just about all of the institutions, leaving one to wonder just when it is going to become a case of every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost.


With respect to the instant matter, though, those of us who happen to be in leadership positions - in and out of government - are duty-bound to take note of Tuesday's mad hatters' "bawl" and what it may mean to those agents provocateurs among us who are always on the lookout for ways and means to further destabilise this land of ever-mounting anxieties.

Offline dcs

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #152 on: March 05, 2009, 06:41:08 AM »
That article sums it up for me.
It wasn't the media that perpetuate this within T&T...this was word of mouth and people were getting their info from people in higher places.  So if those in authority and all thought it possible who is the man on the street and the reporter.
The media was too loose but they didn't manufacture this rumour locally and their part in spreading it was not as much as the public.  People were saying I heard this from so so so at xyz office.

The fact that even up to TODAY there are still people with doubt tells you it is not the media reports that holding this up.  The story was ridiculous but people was expecting it to be an exaggeration and was waiting to hear what small amount of truth in had in it.

The fact that all segments of the country thought this was a possibility says how they feel deep down about our situation....at least worse case fears.  Anybody who say they happy with any progress we making lie.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 06:48:52 AM by dcs »

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #153 on: March 05, 2009, 08:03:28 AM »
That article sums it up for me.
It wasn't the media that perpetuate this within T&T...this was word of mouth and people were getting their info from people in higher places.  So if those in authority and all thought it possible who is the man on the street and the reporter.
The media was too loose but they didn't manufacture this rumour locally and their part in spreading it was not as much as the public.  People were saying I heard this from so so so at xyz office.

The fact that even up to TODAY there are still people with doubt tells you it is not the media reports that holding this up.  The story was ridiculous but people was expecting it to be an exaggeration and was waiting to hear what small amount of truth in had in it.

The fact that all segments of the country thought this was a possibility says how they feel deep down about our situation....at least worse case fears.  Anybody who say they happy with any progress we making lie.
That is the way I felt about it .I think people were alarmed by recent suggestions made by The Missing Persons Association et al that Trafficking in Persons (TIP) was taking place. While the group had no evidence beyond the fact that a number of persons were unaccounted for, people considered the possibility nonetheless. The rumour lent credence,however briefly, to that theory of human trafficking.

I am relieved that this mischievous rumour has quashed but that does not preclude the fact that the situation is bad. Persons operating in the nefarious underworld know as well law-abiding citizens that our security institutions are impotent. It appears that loopholes have become gaping chasms. We are so open and vulnerable. 




Offline Organic

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #154 on: March 05, 2009, 11:07:35 AM »
That article sums it up for me.
It wasn't the media that perpetuate this within T&T...this was word of mouth and people were getting their info from people in higher places.  So if those in authority and all thought it possible who is the man on the street and the reporter.
The media was too loose but they didn't manufacture this rumour locally and their part in spreading it was not as much as the public.  People were saying I heard this from so so so at xyz office.

The fact that even up to TODAY there are still people with doubt tells you it is not the media reports that holding this up.  The story was ridiculous but people was expecting it to be an exaggeration and was waiting to hear what small amount of truth in had in it.

The fact that all segments of the country thought this was a possibility says how they feel deep down about our situation....at least worse case fears.  Anybody who say they happy with any progress we making lie.
That is the way I felt about it .I think people were alarmed by recent suggestions made by The Missing Persons Association et al that Trafficking in Persons (TIP) was taking place. While the group had no evidence beyond the fact that a number of persons were unaccounted for, people considered the possibility nonetheless. The rumour lent credence,however briefly, to that theory of human trafficking.

I am relieved that this mischievous rumour has quashed but that does not preclude the fact that the situation is bad. Persons operating in the nefarious underworld know as well law-abiding citizens that our security institutions are impotent. It appears that loopholes have become gaping chasms. We are so open and vulnerable. 




Ditto
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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #155 on: March 05, 2009, 12:14:53 PM »
That article sums it up for me.
It wasn't the media that perpetuate this within T&T...this was word of mouth and people were getting their info from people in higher places.  So if those in authority and all thought it possible who is the man on the street and the reporter.
The media was too loose but they didn't manufacture this rumour locally and their part in spreading it was not as much as the public.  People were saying I heard this from so so so at xyz office.

The fact that even up to TODAY there are still people with doubt tells you it is not the media reports that holding this up.  The story was ridiculous but people was expecting it to be an exaggeration and was waiting to hear what small amount of truth in had in it.

The fact that all segments of the country thought this was a possibility says how they feel deep down about our situation....at least worse case fears.  Anybody who say they happy with any progress we making lie.

Bullshit!

The media did more than any word of mouth to spread the shit talk!  If they were responsible they would have spoken to the police etc and get confirmation before blurting rumours out on the airwaves!  People hear that and begin to feel that it is true.  Word of mouth is one thing but NO WAY IN HELL that spread so far and wide without media coverage!

You are grasping at anything to make this government look worse and the situation at home as desperate.  The fact is there is NO f**kING evidence of trafficking in T&T thus far, that too is spread by word of mouth by agents of doom and gloom to further disparage the government of T&T!

Which people in high places spread this rumour?  In the opposition high places?  PLEASE TELL ME!  The police, customs and Port Police acted responsibly by deploying forces to investigate the reports....UNFOUNDED reports PERPETUATED by the MEDIA!

There is always rumour and ole talk circulating T&T, fear mongers and those with axe to grind, come out they holes of depravity to create bobol and hysteria because they know how society feels about crimes against children!

People expected the reports to be mere exaggerations?  Steups, maybe people like you who reflexively despise the GORTT! 

I challenge you and anyone else to present one iota of evidence that human trafficking takes place in T&T.....one f**king instance is all I asking for!   Yes whores are brought in, but as I said they coming with eyes and legs wide open...and mouths too, if Capo is to be believed!

Look at the press in T&T, one time we had big disagreement over a woman's so-called crime expose with CEPEP, she was talking shit, yet you sided with her.  This recent episode illustrates how poor the media in T&T really are.

I faster believe in GOD than the T&T press!

truetrini

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #156 on: March 05, 2009, 12:23:05 PM »
people missing in nations all over the world, the police in T&T need re-training, that's true, but sometimes they come in for some unjustified stick.  they did a good job with Leah's case, a man is in custody, and they seem to be making headway.


The public is largely to blame for MOST things wrong with T&T...from littering to road deaths to kidnapping to murders.  The nation's attitude needs adjusting....from top to bottom and from bottom to top.

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #157 on: March 05, 2009, 12:29:42 PM »
de tnt media is ah shame.TT,them hoes and them ha to eat too.so i does try to help out.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #158 on: March 05, 2009, 12:30:18 PM »
D express miss d boat. D press d electronic media by their stupidity confirmed d rumour. It was so ridiculous but cnc3, ietv and God knows who else reported it. So d press is ridiculous then.
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truetrini

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #159 on: March 05, 2009, 12:31:55 PM »
D express miss d boat. D press d electronic media by their stupidity confirmed d rumour. It was so ridiculous but cnc3, ietv and God knows who else reported it. So d press is ridiculous then.

If yuh listen to some here, the media only play ah small part, is word ah mouth that started from higher ups...whatever dat mean.

De damn media eh have no shame

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #160 on: March 05, 2009, 12:32:33 PM »
de tnt media is ah shame.TT,them hoes and them ha to eat too.so i does try to help out.

what yuh feeding dem Capo?

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #161 on: March 05, 2009, 12:35:09 PM »
de tnt media is ah shame.TT,them hoes and them ha to eat too.so i does try to help out.

what yuh feeding dem Capo?
mostly banana and ah couple puteegal
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline Queen Macoomeh

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #162 on: March 05, 2009, 12:55:44 PM »
de tnt media is ah shame.TT,them hoes and them ha to eat too.so i does try to help out.

what yuh feeding dem Capo?
mostly banana and ah couple puteegal

*starts to cry with laughter*

nah, yuh ketch me dis time...

truetrini

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #163 on: March 05, 2009, 01:01:46 PM »
de tnt media is ah shame.TT,them hoes and them ha to eat too.so i does try to help out.

what yuh feeding dem Capo?
mostly banana and ah couple puteegal

*starts to cry with laughter*

nah, yuh ketch me dis time...


he really mean seekeyea fig and two series eh

Offline Queen Macoomeh

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #164 on: March 05, 2009, 01:04:12 PM »
either way, ah get ketch.. :rotfl: :rotfl:

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #165 on: March 05, 2009, 01:13:15 PM »
de tnt media is ah shame.TT,them hoes and them ha to eat too.so i does try to help out.

what yuh feeding dem Capo?
mostly banana and ah couple puteegal

*starts to cry with laughter*

nah, yuh ketch me dis time...


he really mean seekeyea fig and two series eh
like yuh peep meh. ;D
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline elan

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #166 on: March 05, 2009, 02:44:11 PM »
people missing in nations all over the world, the police in T&T need re-training, that's true, but sometimes they come in for some unjustified stick.  they did a good job with Leah's case, a man is in custody, and they seem to be making headway.


The public is largely to blame for MOST things wrong with T&T...from littering to road deaths to kidnapping to murders.  The nation's attitude needs adjusting....from top to bottom and from bottom to top.


That article sums it up for me.
It wasn't the media that perpetuate this within T&T...this was word of mouth and people were getting their info from people in higher places.  So if those in authority and all thought it possible who is the man on the street and the reporter.
The media was too loose but they didn't manufacture this rumour locally and their part in spreading it was not as much as the public.  People were saying I heard this from so so so at xyz office.

The fact that even up to TODAY there are still people with doubt tells you it is not the media reports that holding this up.  The story was ridiculous but people was expecting it to be an exaggeration and was waiting to hear what small amount of truth in had in it.

The fact that all segments of the country thought this was a possibility says how they feel deep down about our situation....at least worse case fears.  Anybody who say they happy with any progress we making lie.

Bullshit!

The media did more than any word of mouth to spread the shit talk!  If they were responsible they would have spoken to the police etc and get confirmation before blurting rumours out on the airwaves!  People hear that and begin to feel that it is true.  Word of mouth is one thing but NO WAY IN HELL that spread so far and wide without media coverage!

You are grasping at anything to make this government look worse and the situation at home as desperate.  The fact is there is NO f**kING evidence of trafficking in T&T thus far, that too is spread by word of mouth by agents of doom and gloom to further disparage the government of T&T!

Which people in high places spread this rumour?  In the opposition high places?  PLEASE TELL ME!  The police, customs and Port Police acted responsibly by deploying forces to investigate the reports....UNFOUNDED reports PERPETUATED by the MEDIA!

There is always rumour and ole talk circulating T&T, fear mongers and those with axe to grind, come out they holes of depravity to create bobol and hysteria because they know how society feels about crimes against children!

People expected the reports to be mere exaggerations?  Steups, maybe people like you who reflexively despise the GORTT! 

I challenge you and anyone else to present one iota of evidence that human trafficking takes place in T&T.....one f**king instance is all I asking for!   Yes whores are brought in, but as I said they coming with eyes and legs wide open...and mouths too, if Capo is to be believed!

Look at the press in T&T, one time we had big disagreement over a woman's so-called crime expose with CEPEP, she was talking shit, yet you sided with her.  This recent episode illustrates how poor the media in T&T really are.

I faster believe in GOD than the T&T press!

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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #167 on: March 05, 2009, 03:55:36 PM »
I agree with dcs that the society has such a negative view of things that we would react somewhat credulously to early reports, if even in part. 

I don't agree that the media didn't perpetuated the rumour. Certainly they did not devise it but it was they who let it spread like wildfire. Obviously a radio or television station will reach more people than word of mouth. Unconfirmed ,unsubstantiated reports which have national and  international implications were released to to the public. It demonstrates the level of professionalism and reliability of some sectors of the local media.

Usually when outragous reports such as this arise there is at a fraction of truth to the story. To this point nobody has come foward to verify having seen people in a container. Until and unless people could come out and say that, all we have a blatant and mischievous act of mass deception.

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #168 on: March 05, 2009, 06:45:14 PM »
what new Jah Gol?  Is T&T we dealing with..all de crime all de negativity all de so-called fear..how come Carnival was bigger than ever?

Offline Dr. Rat

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #169 on: March 05, 2009, 08:02:46 PM »
Again, all yuh in Trinidad like to jump on ever band wagon.

Start taking responsibility for yourselves and stop living like is a f**kin carnival everyday.
PNM in yuh mudda-in-law

Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #170 on: March 05, 2009, 09:52:52 PM »
Breds some ah  alyuh eh  relize how much people hurting and would like to see their family or friend like me not even knowing LEAH LAMMY been following this story from day1 and when i hear that she was in the container i feel so good to know that she was found but only to find out that it was jus trinbago  drama me heart was hurting for the mother because i know she hear the trinbago bull shit too .   
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bad things happening to bad people: a good thing

Offline weary1969

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #171 on: March 05, 2009, 10:04:14 PM »
D peeps who strt d rumour sick because dey obviously eh study Leah mudder.
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Offline weary1969

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #172 on: March 05, 2009, 10:08:32 PM »
Telecom body launches probe into children in container hoax
Published: March 5th, 2009
The Telecommunications Authority (Tatt) has launched a comprehensive investigation into Monday’s unsubstantiated media reports of the discovery of a container at the Port of Port-of-Spain with children in it. The authority, in a release yesterday, said the probe is to determine “if and to what extent” the reporting of the “false and misleading information” by several media houses “may have been as a result of a failure to take reasonable steps to verify the accuracy of the information prior to transmission.”

Tatt said it was also considering whether the actions of the media houses may have been acts of public mischief by the radio and television stations involved. The authority said it would take all steps within the ambit of the law “to ensure that any improper conduct by those involved is dealt with.” It said such actions would be prevented from happening again. The authority stressed it would take seriously any improper conduct in the reporting of news. It also advised all broadcasters of their obligations to the public as contained in their concessions and licences.

Tatt said broadcasters must ensure their reporting was responsible and adhered to the highest standards of journalism, particularly as it related to issues of high public importance. It said the issue highlighted the need for the “urgent promulgation of the (broadcast) code.” This, it said, would allow the authority “to more effectively regulate the broadcasting sector.” Acting CoP James Philbert and the Port Authority have said the reports were false.

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Offline zuluwarrior

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #173 on: March 05, 2009, 10:23:42 PM »
Weary yuh know wah the head of the all the meadi dept that allow this misleading information to get out into the public should be made to resign because that shows they the head of the radio or /tv stations  is not responsible enough for the job they are being paid to do .jus emagin how the familys feel when they heard this story only to hear that it is not true .
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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #174 on: March 06, 2009, 04:54:37 AM »
is not de media fault..is de people higher up who spread the rumour....right DCS?

I feel with everything in me dat is either de UNC or COP who start dat shit talk, and since DCS know it start by people higher up (whatever dat mean) I go take license and spread ole talk


IS de f**king COP who start dat talk...leh we see how far dis rumour go spread...!

Anyone with contacts in de Express?

truetrini

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #175 on: March 06, 2009, 05:38:19 AM »
Check, double check rumours

By SEAN DOUGLAS Friday, March 6 2009
click on pic to zoom in
FEISTY DISCUSSION: CNN political director and vice-president, Sam Feist....


CNN political director and vice president, Sam Feist, said the false rumours about children in a shipping container on Tuesday showed the need for radio and television stations to check and double check such claims before reporting them as factual.

Feist yesterday addressed students at the University of the West Indies (UWI), St Augustine, on the role of the internet in the 2008 US Presidential Elections in the topic, “The impact of (ICT) technology on political campaigning.”

He recalled his initial scepticism when he himself had heard the rumours broadcast on Tuesday. “Critically I’m thinking ‘This can’t be true’. I heard no evidence”. He said all that was being broadcast was second-hand and third-hand reports and hearsay.

Feist advised the communication-studies students, “Wait until you go to a source of information before you believe a rumour.”

He recalled similar false rumours arising in the campaign of the recent US presidential election which he noted largely arose in the new media of the Internet including blogs, but which were eventually debunked by the traditional or old media.

He said he took a decision for CNN not to report an untrue rumour that other media houses were broadcasting which falsely claimed that Obama was a Muslim who had once attended a madrasa Islamic-fundamentalist school in Indonesia.

“Blogs can be an important indicator of something but news organisations that have the resources to go out and check are very important, especially in a democracy.”

He said CNN requires two separate and direct sources of information for every story they report. “Democracy is entirely dependent on the citizenry accessing trusted information.”

The children-in-a-container rumour, he said, was a textbook example of what could go wrong with media reporting. “Don’t report information that you don’t know to be true. Journalists hold a very special position in any democracy,” Feist elaborated in a question session.

While admitting CNN was not perfect, he said reporters should have certain guidelines. “It is important to have standards, ask tough questions and have reliable sources.” Asked about a career in journalism, Feist effused, “I can’t believe I’m paid to do this.” He said journalism was a mission and a calling. “It’s essential to the functioning of a democracy. Without a free and democratic press, there’s no democracy. Journalists provide a check on politicians.”

Offline dcs

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #176 on: March 06, 2009, 07:47:56 AM »
is not de media fault..is de people higher up who spread the rumour....right DCS?

I feel with everything in me dat is either de UNC or COP who start dat shit talk, and since DCS know it start by people higher up (whatever dat mean) I go take license and spread ole talk


IS de f**king COP who start dat talk...leh we see how far dis rumour go spread...!

Anyone with contacts in de Express?

 :rotfl:
I didn't expect u to agree.  I know I minimizing the role the media play it in but I didn't mean to say it was people higher up who spread it.  I just showing how everybody buy it hook line and sinker.  I didn't hear anything in the media....MSN, Facebook, email, here, text messages...a lot of people these days during work hours have access to these things before radio and tv.  I sure more people in front a computer during work hours rather than listening to the radio.

I also don't really pay attention to the human trafficking story until there is some more evidence....just like that ole talk about syrians and the drug running (where de evidence....down the islands?   :devil:)

Blame the media all you like about their standards but if all that changed and their standards raised it sure as hell not going to make people feel any more secure.  Before things got this bad...and it bad whoever u talk to apparently other than people who living away who on a political scene...yeah before it was this bad the rumour woulda still spread same way but the fear would not have been as much.

Allyuh really want to say is fear mongers and not the actual situation that have people tense?  MAN PLEASE.  Nobody listens to the opposition and the COP has no voice so gone from here with that dotish talk.

Offline pass(10trini)

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #177 on: March 06, 2009, 08:22:12 AM »
IF there was Human Trafficking going on in T&T it would have already come to the surface years ago. From since I a lil boy growing up children been missing and not one to this day have come around to say anything. They would be big man now older than me. Stop fooling alyuhself. What they need to investigate is why they never able to find these victims because the majority of their lives were most likely ended, right there in T&T. There is a section of society in Trinidad that does sacrificing(take someone's life) for financial gain and it seems like they are never found. I will not elaborate any further on this. Let them who have ears for it hear the message.
Stag is a man's beer-
Ah beer is ah carib
choose one

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #178 on: March 06, 2009, 08:41:50 AM »

He recalled his initial scepticism when he himself had heard the rumours broadcast on Tuesday. “Critically I’m thinking ‘This can’t be true’. I heard no evidence”. He said all that was being broadcast was second-hand and third-hand reports and hearsay.

This is exactly the point I'm making. Up to last night I heard second hand reports that the story was true because port workers saw children with shaven heads. Workers' cellphones were subsequently seized.   

My belief is that in this age of technology its extremely difficult for the Government to orchestrate such a flawless cover up. Without anybody  including the port workers, police/military personnel, or medical personnel or any other person who may have had direct contact with said children, coming forward to confirm the report, all we have is hearsay.   

Interestingly no media house is reporting otherwise now. CCN and the Guardian wouldn't miss an opportunity to make the Government look bad. This kind of thing is easy for them to investigate. 
 

Offline Bourbon

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Re: Developing Story - Container of children found
« Reply #179 on: March 06, 2009, 09:50:38 AM »
And now an email making de rounds.



:
 

Quote
Good morning to all citizens of TRINIDAD and TOBAGO !

 

the children that were found on the PORT is not a HOAX!

i'm a nurse i work in both MOUNT HOPE and PORT OF SPAIN GENERAL HOSPITAL, and i dealt with the children yesterday and this morning..... the childrens heads are cleanly shaven and they have bruises and scares all over their bodies!

 

and the GOVERNMENT and POLICE SERVICES is letting CIVILIAN people bring them in because they do not want the PUBLIC to know the truth.

they do not want it to reach out the UNITED STATES of AMERICA because of the SUMMIT that we are hosting in APRIL...and it will look VERY VERY VERY BAD on our behalf... WONT IT!!!!!!!!!!!
so PLEASE keep a hold on your children and be very careful because our sweet sweet T&T is FOLLOWING everything that we see on television an everything that AMERICA is DOING!!!!!!!!!
so its not a hoax!
PLEASE FORWARD this to everyone that you know for the sake of keeping our children SAFE and the government uncovered.....
Sean Stephney
Engineer
Estimating Dept.
 

Nurse that works both Mount Hope and Port of Spain......Yet the email signature is From an engineer in the estimating department. The last set of email addresses i saw were from illuminat.....and not even the name in the signature.

Steups.

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

 

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