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Offline Bakes

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First America... then the World
« on: January 22, 2009, 01:47:42 AM »
Change has indeed come.

-----------

January 22, 2009

Op-Ed Contributor
The One-State Solution

By MUAMMAR QADDAFI

Tripoli, Libya-THE shocking level of the last wave of Israeli-Palestinian violence, which ended with this weekend’s cease-fire, reminds us why a final resolution to the so-called Middle East crisis is so important. It is vital not just to break this cycle of destruction and injustice, but also to deny the religious extremists in the region who feed on the conflict an excuse to advance their own causes.

But everywhere one looks, among the speeches and the desperate diplomacy, there is no real way forward. A just and lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians is possible, but it lies in the history of the people of this conflicted land, and not in the tired rhetoric of partition and two-state solutions.

Although it’s hard to realize after the horrors we’ve just witnessed, the state of war between the Jews and Palestinians has not always existed. In fact, many of the divisions between Jews and Palestinians are recent ones. The very name “Palestine” was commonly used to describe the whole area, even by the Jews who lived there, until 1948, when the name “Israel” came into use.

Jews and Muslims are cousins descended from Abraham. Throughout the centuries both faced cruel persecution and often found refuge with one another. Arabs sheltered Jews and protected them after maltreatment at the hands of the Romans and their expulsion from Spain in the Middle Ages.

The history of Israel/Palestine is not remarkable by regional standards — a country inhabited by different peoples, with rule passing among many tribes, nations and ethnic groups; a country that has withstood many wars and waves of peoples from all directions. This is why it gets so complicated when members of either party claims the right to assert that it is their land.

The basis for the modern State of Israel is the persecution of the Jewish people, which is undeniable. The Jews have been held captive, massacred, disadvantaged in every possible fashion by the Egyptians, the Romans, the English, the Russians, the Babylonians, the Canaanites and, most recently, the Germans under Hitler. The Jewish people want and deserve their homeland.

But the Palestinians too have a history of persecution, and they view the coastal towns of Haifa, Acre, Jaffa and others as the land of their forefathers, passed from generation to generation, until only a short time ago.

Thus the Palestinians believe that what is now called Israel forms part of their nation, even were they to secure the West Bank and Gaza. And the Jews believe that the West Bank is Samaria and Judea, part of their homeland, even if a Palestinian state were established there. Now, as Gaza still smolders, calls for a two-state solution or partition persist. But neither will work.

A two-state solution will create an unacceptable security threat to Israel. An armed Arab state, presumably in the West Bank, would give Israel less than 10 miles of strategic depth at its narrowest point. Further, a Palestinian state in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip would do little to resolve the problem of refugees. Any situation that keeps the majority of Palestinians in refugee camps and does not offer a solution within the historical borders of Israel/Palestine is not a solution at all.

For the same reasons, the older idea of partition of the West Bank into Jewish and Arab areas, with buffer zones between them, won’t work. The Palestinian-held areas could not accommodate all of the refugees, and buffer zones symbolize exclusion and breed tension. Israelis and Palestinians have also become increasingly intertwined, economically and politically.

In absolute terms, the two movements must remain in perpetual war or a compromise must be reached. The compromise is one state for all, an “Isratine” that would allow the people in each party to feel that they live in all of the disputed land and they are not deprived of any one part of it.

A key prerequisite for peace is the right of return for Palestinian refugees to the homes their families left behind in 1948. It is an injustice that Jews who were not originally inhabitants of Palestine, nor were their ancestors, can move in from abroad while Palestinians who were displaced only a relatively short time ago should not be so permitted.

It is a fact that Palestinians inhabited the land and owned farms and homes there until recently, fleeing in fear of violence at the hands of Jews after 1948 — violence that did not occur, but rumors of which led to a mass exodus. It is important to note that the Jews did not forcibly expel Palestinians. They were never “un-welcomed.” Yet only the full territories of Isratine can accommodate all the refugees and bring about the justice that is key to peace.

Assimilation is already a fact of life in Israel. There are more than one million Muslim Arabs in Israel; they possess Israeli nationality and take part in political life with the Jews, forming political parties. On the other side, there are Israeli settlements in the West Bank. Israeli factories depend on Palestinian labor, and goods and services are exchanged. This successful assimilation can be a model for Isratine.

If the present interdependence and the historical fact of Jewish-Palestinian coexistence guide their leaders, and if they can see beyond the horizon of the recent violence and thirst for revenge toward a long-term solution, then these two peoples will come to realize, I hope sooner rather than later, that living under one roof is the only option for a lasting peace.

Muammar Qaddafi is the leader of Libya.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/opinion/22qaddafi.html?hp

Offline Swima

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2009, 06:00:51 AM »
Very insightful.
Success will never take you by surprise.

truetrini

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2009, 06:12:39 AM »
Insightful as it is shocking.  Qaddafi has seemingly come a long way....!

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2009, 08:21:47 AM »
Insightful as it is shocking.  Qaddafi has seemingly come a long way....!
either that or he playin dead to ketch corbeaux alive.either which way,there will never be peace between these people.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline Swima

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2009, 08:24:03 AM »
Insightful as it is shocking.  Qaddafi has seemingly come a long way....!

I find his projected image of late has been more in line with this. Over the last few years he has seemed to be a lot more tempered.
Success will never take you by surprise.

truetrini

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2009, 12:23:31 PM »
Insightful as it is shocking.  Qaddafi has seemingly come a long way....!

I find his projected image of late has been more in line with this. Over the last few years he has seemed to be a lot more tempered.

Agreed, and he has been rewarded by the US in the recent past for his relaxed stance.

Offline Bakes

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2009, 12:45:55 PM »
Insightful as it is shocking.  Qaddafi has seemingly come a long way....!

I was nothing short of floored by how nuanced his understanding of the concerns on both sides were, and by just how  balanced he presented each's interest.  I think his approach is fresh in it's frankness, even if implementing his ideas may take something just short of a miracle.  Improbable or not though... I can't see a better vision for peace in the region materializing anytime soon.

Offline Dutty

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2009, 01:23:58 PM »
waayyz  :o
look how allyuh men fawnin over one ah de wuss dictator and terrorist on de globe,,, just because he put some nice words on a page eh?

de ghosts of lockerbie go pull allyuh toe..tee




"he may be a bastard, but he's our bastard"
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 01:33:30 PM by Dutty »
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truetrini

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 01:35:33 PM »
Insightful as it is shocking.  Qaddafi has seemingly come a long way....!

I was nothing short of floored by how nuanced his understanding of the concerns on both sides were, and by just how  balanced he presented each's interest.  I think his approach is fresh in it's frankness, even if implementing his ideas may take something just short of a miracle.  Improbable or not though... I can't see a better vision for peace in the region materializing anytime soon.

Agree with you 100%

The man was never a fool, he continuously acts in a foolish manner.  Basic civil liberties are virtually nonexistent, and opposition is not tolerated in Libya.  He has absolute control of the government and he, together with his old high school buddies run the country with an iron fist!  I remember when he had secret operatives trying to kill dissidents living in the West, and his unwavering support for the PLO (that is why it is shocking for me to see him make these kinds of statements today!)  

He said he was inspired by Nasser of Egypt and was a big time Pan Arab man,m but his support for the PLO caused a straining of relationships with Egypt, becuause Egypt was forging peace with Israel.

I also remember him with the Soviet bloc and getting MIGs from dem.  He was also a BIG time supporter of so-called terror groups in Africa and particularly Liberia, this make Reagan vex no arse!  Remeber the Black september movement with his support attacking the Olympics.  Carlos The jackal, world's most wanted terrorist...was supported and paid by Gaddafi.  I think he was behind bombing a german disco too.

Reagan wanted he dead bad because Libya was supporting Iran against Iraq, and de US was financng and supplying Saddam with intelligence and arms.  

I also rememebr US attacking Libyan ships in teh late 80's I was living in london at the time.  and I remeber a police woman was killed outside de Libyan emabssy and de people inside did fire and kill her, but dem claim immunity and fled to Libya

Jes recently doh, the man say he was responsible for the Pan Am Lockerbie bombing and paid up money and sat he sorry....now this?.




truetrini

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 01:36:29 PM »
waayyz  :o
look how allyuh men fawnin over one ah de wuss dictator and terrorist on de globe,,, just because he put some nice words on a page eh?

de ghosts of lockerbie go pull allyuh toe..tee




"he may be a bastard, but he's our bastard"

I eh fawning over him at all, you post before my last pos on him.  He is no saint guy...doh rush de brush, yuh go get dab!

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 01:37:45 PM »
reagan was supplyin BOTH iraq and iran
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline ribbit

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 01:39:46 PM »
He was also a BIG time supporter of so-called terror groups in Africa and particularly Liberia, ...

côte d'ivoire aussi.

truetrini

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 01:40:44 PM »
reagan was supplyin BOTH iraq and iran

yep Iran Contra affair...dat get him de name de Teflon prez...nutten sticks

truetrini

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2009, 01:41:40 PM »
He was also a BIG time supporter of so-called terror groups in Africa and particularly Liberia, ...

côte d'ivoire aussi.

thanks cyar rememebr everything, but that man eh easy...still, jes this stance by him is heartening


Offline Bakes

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2009, 02:06:56 PM »
waayyz  :o
look how allyuh men fawnin over one ah de wuss dictator and terrorist on de globe,,, just because he put some nice words on a page eh?

de ghosts of lockerbie go pull allyuh toe..tee




"he may be a bastard, but he's our bastard"

Worst dictator?  You have proof to back this up... or is this more of your usual empty (and empty-headed) rhetoric?


As for Lockerbie... he's already paid his penance and made amends.

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2009, 02:16:52 PM »
waayyz  :o
look how allyuh men fawnin over one ah de wuss dictator and terrorist on de globe,,, just because he put some nice words on a page eh?

de ghosts of lockerbie go pull allyuh toe..tee




"he may be a bastard, but he's our bastard"

Worst dictator?  You have proof to back this up... or is this more of your usual empty (and empty-headed) rhetoric?


As for Lockerbie... he's already paid his penance and made amends.
only god could say if he pay he penance,as fuh amends,yuh tink de families that get money for their lost is kosher now.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline Bakes

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2009, 04:11:01 PM »
waayyz  :o
look how allyuh men fawnin over one ah de wuss dictator and terrorist on de globe,,, just because he put some nice words on a page eh?

de ghosts of lockerbie go pull allyuh toe..tee




"he may be a bastard, but he's our bastard"

Worst dictator?  You have proof to back this up... or is this more of your usual empty (and empty-headed) rhetoric?


As for Lockerbie... he's already paid his penance and made amends.
only god could say if he pay he penance,as fuh amends,yuh tink de families that get money for their lost is kosher now.

Fella, anytime someone loses a loved one the wound never heals... so to judge by their subjective standard, no he hasn't paid enough.  I have West Indian friends who lost family members aboard that flight... so trust I not just talking from some distance.  People feel is only white people died aboard Pan Am Flight 103?

His 'penance' for his support of terrorism was global isolation and ostracization which brought pressure on Khaddafi and undue suffering on his people.  Reprisal US airstrikes hit his personal compound killing close family members including a daughter.  He has renounced terrorism and paid reparations not only to families of victims of Flight 103, but also to victims of terrorists organizations like Abu Nidal.  I'm sure the family of Leon Klinghoffer might argue otherwise but the man has paid his penance to the global society... whatever other debt remains outstanding is between him and his God.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2009, 04:39:55 PM »
well the Arab Nations have to accept the Nation of Israel and I think a good starting point would be to recognise the borders as set out in the Green Line
Untill then, there will be no lasting peace in that part of the world.

In addition, this call for "The One-State Solution" is too far fetched to say the least
just my two cents
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 05:38:40 PM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline Deeks

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2009, 05:35:26 PM »
It was an insightful presentation, but he is still an snake. Sorry......

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2009, 08:10:36 PM »
waayyz  :o
look how allyuh men fawnin over one ah de wuss dictator and terrorist on de globe,,, just because he put some nice words on a page eh?

de ghosts of lockerbie go pull allyuh toe..tee




"he may be a bastard, but he's our bastard"

Worst dictator?  You have proof to back this up... or is this more of your usual empty (and empty-headed) rhetoric?


As for Lockerbie... he's already paid his penance and made amends.
only god could say if he pay he penance,as fuh amends,yuh tink de families that get money for their lost is kosher now.

Fella, anytime someone loses a loved one the wound never heals... so to judge by their subjective standard, no he hasn't paid enough.  I have West Indian friends who lost family members aboard that flight... so trust I not just talking from some distance.  People feel is only white people died aboard Pan Am Flight 103?

His 'penance' for his support of terrorism was global isolation and ostracization which brought pressure on Khaddafi and undue suffering on his people.  Reprisal US airstrikes hit his personal compound killing close family members including a daughter.  He has renounced terrorism and paid reparations not only to families of victims of Flight 103, but also to victims of terrorists organizations like Abu Nidal.  I'm sure the family of Leon Klinghoffer might argue otherwise but the man has paid his penance to the global society... whatever other debt remains outstanding is between him and his God.
bakes that is basically wuh i say,u just use more words.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline Bakes

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2009, 08:26:47 PM »
bakes that is basically wuh i say,u just use more words.

Uhm... no.

You said "only God" can say if he's paid his penance.

I'm telling you he HAS paid his penance to the rest of the world.... and if you think he has some 'sin' to account for then that's between him and the God of his understanding.

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2009, 08:48:27 PM »
bakes that is basically wuh i say,u just use more words.

Uhm... no.

You said "only God" can say if he's paid his penance.

I'm telling you he HAS paid his penance to the rest of the world.... and if you think he has some 'sin' to account for then that's between him and the God of his understanding.
penance n. An act of self-mortification or devotion performed voluntarily to show sorrow for a sin or other wrongdoing.
only he and he god could say if he pay he penance.men like that have no remorse.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline Bakes

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2009, 12:02:04 AM »
penance n. An act of self-mortification or devotion performed voluntarily to show sorrow for a sin or other wrongdoing.
only he and he god could say if he pay he penance.men like that have no remorse.

Thank you Dr. Freud... anything else you want to share with us now that you've looked into his soul?

Offline Dutty

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2009, 09:08:52 AM »
waayyz  :o
look how allyuh men fawnin over one ah de wuss dictator and terrorist on de globe,,, just because he put some nice words on a page eh?

de ghosts of lockerbie go pull allyuh toe..tee




"he may be a bastard, but he's our bastard"

Worst dictator?  You have proof to back this up... or is this more of your usual empty (and empty-headed) rhetoric?


As for Lockerbie... he's already paid his penance and made amends.

ok if yuh feel better he's ah average dictator...and de wuss terrorist...and a great financier of african child soldiers

I hope when my boy fidel write nice words..allyuh is just as conciliatory

when reagan bomb he family ..dat make de man more radical
If yuh notice he pay he "penance" and amends de minute .u.k., u.s. and european firms start to increase dey oil exploration in libya....and all de "penance" he supposedly pay, he STILL eh give up de men who plant de bomb to do time in nobody jail
de man have oil & gas,, of course all ostracization go done....when yuh have oil yuh does go from terrorist to respected statesman..and write nice words

penance?...de man pass some small change and gettin rewarded handsomely

you is a true yankee oui..condemn who de book say condemn and forgive who dey tell yuh forgive
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Offline Bakes

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2009, 09:35:51 AM »

ok if yuh feel better he's ah average dictator...and de wuss terrorist...and a great financier of african child soldiers

I hope when my boy fidel write nice words..allyuh is just as conciliatory

when reagan bomb he family ..dat make de man more radical
If yuh notice he pay he "penance" and amends de minute .u.k., u.s. and european firms start to increase dey oil exploration in libya....and all de "penance" he supposedly pay, he STILL eh give up de men who plant de bomb to do time in nobody jail
de man have oil & gas,, of course all ostracization go done....when yuh have oil yuh does go from terrorist to respected statesman..and write nice words

penance?...de man pass some small change and gettin rewarded handsomely

you is a true yankee oui..condemn who de book say condemn and forgive who dey tell yuh forgive

Your mouth must be situated right next tuh yuh colon... de amount ah shit you does talk.

Whether he pay penance after foreign investment reach is beside de point... matter of fact that same "oil exploration" was the carrot used to lure him back into the graces of the international community by letting him see that he could either step up and be an equal partner at the global table, or continue to live 30 years in the past, content to be the teapot despot that he'd been since 1969.  Conditioned on the promise that he'd renounce terrorism and compensate the families, the global market was made available to him... no different than the alternative diplomacy that has been tried with Iran and the DPRK, and which likely will be put on the table now that Bush and his failed policy of isolationism has faded away.

... and yuh right, yuh can't accuse him of being any worse than yuh "boy" Fidel, unless yuh conceding that he too is "one ah de worse dictators."  You'd also have to do a lot more than call me 'yankee' to offend me, small minds grasp at straws when they find they have nothing else substantial to hold onto.

Offline Dutty

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2009, 09:49:49 AM »


Your mouth must be situated right next tuh yuh colon... de amount ah shit you does talk.

Whether he pay penance after foreign investment reach is beside de point... matter of fact that same "oil exploration" was the carrot used to lure him back into the graces of the international community by letting him
... and yuh right, yuh can't accuse him of being any worse than yuh "boy" Fidel, unless yuh conceding that he too is "one ah de worse dictators."  You'd also have to do a lot more than call me 'yankee' to offend me, small minds grasp at straws when they find they have nothing else substantial to hold onto.

oh yeah , I'm sure the carrot of oil was to lure him back into the international community, making him a responsible leader was the ultimate goal......it had absolutely nothing to do with the countries involved simply wanting the oil & gas itself and whomever happened to be sitting on it woulda get they terrorist card revoked
Thanks for clearing that up


well yuh hadda give me credit my colon and my mouth placement, some call that efficient recycling...better than suckin uncle sam flagpole and swallowing he propagandic semen every day
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Offline Bakes

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2009, 10:03:18 AM »


Your mouth must be situated right next tuh yuh colon... de amount ah shit you does talk.

Whether he pay penance after foreign investment reach is beside de point... matter of fact that same "oil exploration" was the carrot used to lure him back into the graces of the international community by letting him
... and yuh right, yuh can't accuse him of being any worse than yuh "boy" Fidel, unless yuh conceding that he too is "one ah de worse dictators."  You'd also have to do a lot more than call me 'yankee' to offend me, small minds grasp at straws when they find they have nothing else substantial to hold onto.

oh yeah , I'm sure the carrot of oil was to lure him back into the international community, making him a responsible leader was the ultimate goal......it had absolutely nothing to do with the countries involved simply wanting the oil & gas itself and whomever happened to be sitting on it woulda get they terrorist card revoked
Thanks for clearing that up

If they wanted it that bad why did those self same countries organize an economic boycott of Libya in the first place... if not to show him that they was willing to starve the Libyan economy to prove a point about support for terrorism?  Make some kinda blasted sense nuh... I sure even you capable if yuh try.

well yuh hadda give me credit my colon and my mouth placement, some call that efficient recycling...better than suckin uncle sam flagpole and swallowing he propagandic semen every day

So you gone from "sucking Uncle Sam flagpole and swallowing he propagandic semen every day" to recycling yuh own filth... I cyah tell if yuh get promoted or demoted, but sounds like you've had a tough life there fella.

Offline Dutty

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2009, 10:13:15 AM »

If they wanted it that bad why did those self same countries organize an economic boycott of Libya in the first place... if not to show him that they was willing to starve the Libyan economy to prove a point about support for terrorism?  Make some kinda blasted sense nuh... I sure even you capable if yuh try.



So you gone from "sucking Uncle Sam flagpole and swallowing he propagandic semen every day" to recycling yuh own filth... I cyah tell if yuh get promoted or demoted, but sounds like you've had a tough life there fella.

[/quote]

ay genius...try and factor in russia nah....dem never condemn khadaafi as no terrorist and was happy to drill for all the oil and make all the money themselves......the u.k. and u.s. see dat and decide...nope russia not getting that bonanza for themselves,,,we want in too...cheap abundant resources? and all we hadda do is pretend that f**ker quaddafi is a nice guy and convince him to make amends?...done deal!!
make sense now?

hear nah...I all for hypocrisy yuh know...I understand dat is how de world does run...so it go

......and allyuh great NASA astronauts does recycle they own piss into pure drinkin water?...my recyclin just as clean fren
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

Offline pecan

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2009, 10:25:36 AM »


Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline Dutty

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Re: First America... then the World
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2009, 10:26:21 AM »




dais orville redenbacher yuh eatin dey??...........yankee popcorn is de BESTEST
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 10:28:22 AM by Dutty »
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

 

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