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truetrini

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How will the solar system end?
« on: January 30, 2009, 10:05:23 PM »
 How will the solar system end?

    * 28 January 2009 by Stephen Battersby
    * Magazine issue 2693. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.

Read all the articles in our Unknown Solar System special

We live in uninteresting times. Since the ructions that created the planets in the solar system's first 100 million years (see "How was the solar system built?") - and apart from an early migration of the giant planets and the odd colliding comet not swept safely aside by Jupiter - nothing much has really been happening. The planets circle like clockwork, the sun burns steadily, and even delicate life has survived on at least one world.

It cannot last. Something unpleasant is bound to shatter this comfortable calm.

Our sun will die, of course, about six billion years from now. But things could get ugly long before that. The steady gyrations of the solar system today may conceal the seeds of chaos. Even the tiniest of irregularities can build up over time, gradually altering the paths of the planets. Between now and final sundown, it has been calculated, there is a roughly 2 per cent chance of catastrophe. Mars might drift too close to Jupiter and be thrown out of the solar system. If we're very unlucky, hot-headed Mercury could run wild and smash into Earth.

Meanwhile, the sun will slowly get brighter. Within 2 billion years, its heat will probably kill off life on Earth's surface. Mars, on the other hand - if it is still there - should gain a cosier climate. Even if it is dead today, it could one day come to life.

But again, not forever. When the sun's core burns up the last of its hydrogen fuel, the whole structure of the star will radically rearrange. It will slowly bloat to more than a million times its present volume, becoming a red giant. That giant will swallow Mercury and Venus and, according to the latest simulations, probably Earth too.

Baked by the sky-filling sun, and stained redder than ever, Mars will now definitively be dead. The icy moons of Saturn and Jupiter might in turn become hospitable. Saturn's giant moon Titan is particularly promising, as it already holds a rich soup of organic molecules. The red giant's heat could leave once-icy Titan with a global bath of water and ammonia where those organic molecules could form life.

Any creatures that bob to the surface of these outer moons would look up at a rather different sky. By that time, the Milky Way will probably have collided with our neighbouring galaxy Andromeda to form a unified "Milkomeda", where violent bursts of star formation - the nurseries of a new generation of solar systems - will light up the heavens for a time.

Any late flowering of life in our solar system, if it happens at all, will not last long. After its brief escapade as a red giant, the sun's inner furnace will finally fail, and it will cast off its outer layers and shrink into a tiny white dwarf. The briefly balmy Titan will freeze over once more. Its host planet Saturn, together with the other denizens of the outer solar system, will orbit on for tens of billions of years more, until treachery from within or marauders from without do for them, too. Jupiter or Saturn could eject their lighter comrades, Uranus and Neptune, or passing stars could strip away any planet, even massive Jupiter.

The future is never certain, though, and alternative endings can be written. There is a slim chance that the whole solar system, sun and all, might be thrown out of Milkomeda intact. Out in the emptiness of intergalactic space, the planets would be safe from marauders. There they could continue to circle our darkening star until their energy is eventually sapped and they spiral inwards. One by one as they hit the black-dwarf sun, a few final flares will rage against the dying of the light.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2009, 10:15:20 PM »
aye
I did belong to an organisation that predidted the end of the world for 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, and 1989.

still waiting :waiting: :waiting:
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

truetrini

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2009, 10:23:00 PM »
aye
I did belong to an organisation that predidted the end of the world for 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, and 1989.

still waiting :waiting: :waiting:

leave dat Seventh day Adventist church and Join this  http://www.atheistalliance.org/aai/index.php


Offline WestCoast

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2009, 10:25:43 PM »
aye
I did belong to an organisation that predidted the end of the world for 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, and 1989.
still waiting :waiting: :waiting:
leave dat Seventh day Adventist church and Join this  http://www.atheistalliance.org/aai/index.php
I doh believe in that :devil:
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

truetrini

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2009, 10:28:47 PM »
Who We Are

1) Atheism is living one's life without the supernatural.

2) Every human being is entitled to freedom of conscience, which requires absolute state neutrality towards religion and nonreligion and governmental maintenance of inviolate human rights.  Thus, we oppose any law requiring or forbidding the personal observance of religion.

3) Scientific inquiry has proved the best process for improving the physical welfare of humankind and should be pursued with vigor and without compromise throughout the world.

4) Human compassion and empathy are crucial to improving the human condition.

5) Reason and cooperation are essential to meeting the challenges that confront humankind.

6) We are responsible for humane interaction with other animals and for the preservation of our habitable planet.

7) Humanistic atheists eschew concepts that fragment humanity into conflicting groups; rather, we work toward fostering cooperative diversity.

In essence, we work in different ways throughout the world, owing to each other an allegiance to these tenets for living our lives with this perspective and in this manner, making the world a better place.

We Are Not

An atheist is anyone who has no belief in any god, whether the god is called Jehovah, Satan, Vishnu, Allah, Loki, Zeus, or any other name. Therefore, atheists hold many varieties of social and political philosophies.  There is no atheist dogma, and the Atheist Alliance International has no catechism.  However, most of us are atheists because we are rationalists. That means we look for the best evidence in deciding what to believe.  Of course, we don’t believe in such ideas as miracles, “intelligent” design, and “scientific” creationism.  There are also popular notions which are secular and which a few vocal atheists may believe, but which have no supporting evidence.  They are extremely unpopular among the great majority of atheists-rationalists.   They include:

   1. The appearance of “ghosts” or other spirits of the dead.
   2. Reincarnation of human “souls.”
   3. The denial of established historical events, such as the Nazi mass murder of Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, and atheists during World War II.
   4. Astrology of any origin.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2009, 11:00:20 PM »
I'll have you know that I am antagonist...........or is it anostic?? ;D
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline verycute1

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2009, 11:01:50 PM »
I hug trees  ;D
One of these days I'm going to bust out the crystalline doomhammer and go positively orc on this town. Then they'll be sorry...

Read the lore, warlocks are mages that decided not to suck.

Offline verycute1

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2009, 11:02:13 PM »
I'll have you know that I am antagonist...........or is it anostic?? ;D

ag·nos·tic    (āg-nŏs'tĭk)   
n.   

One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
One of these days I'm going to bust out the crystalline doomhammer and go positively orc on this town. Then they'll be sorry...

Read the lore, warlocks are mages that decided not to suck.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2009, 11:03:49 PM »
oh shims, I spell it wrong cute1 ;D ;D

and there IS a spell checker ::)

is this damn keyboard :rotfl:
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline verycute1

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2009, 11:06:26 PM »
oh shims, I spell it wrong cute1 ;D ;D

and there IS a spell checker ::)

is this damn keyboard :rotfl:

Sure sure I believe you about spellcheck lol.
One of these days I'm going to bust out the crystalline doomhammer and go positively orc on this town. Then they'll be sorry...

Read the lore, warlocks are mages that decided not to suck.

Offline pecan

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2009, 02:30:58 PM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2009, 08:23:44 PM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.

what if they believe in the big bang theory?
One of these days I'm going to bust out the crystalline doomhammer and go positively orc on this town. Then they'll be sorry...

Read the lore, warlocks are mages that decided not to suck.

truetrini

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2009, 09:12:16 PM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.

GOD INVENTED BLUE JEANS, APPLE PIE AND THE INTERNET..HE IS AMERICAN!

Offline ribbit

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2009, 09:24:06 PM »
it real sad but this atheist organization cyah raise one-thousandth of what the roman catholic church raising. people doh want to hear de trute, is only fantasy stories they want to hear. j.k. rowling have more pull then these jokers.

e.o. wilson made the point that intelligence eh no evolutionary advantage - only a handful of species in the world can even count. most species on planet earth making do without electricity, language, physics, internet, etc.. 

the roach shall inherit the earth.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2009, 09:24:45 PM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.

GOD INVENTED BLUE JEANS, APPLE PIE AND THE INTERNET..HE IS AMERICAN!
he born in Bethlehem man ::)
or hor he naturalised then

 :rotfl:
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

truetrini

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2009, 10:34:12 PM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.

GOD INVENTED BLUE JEANS, APPLE PIE AND THE INTERNET..HE IS AMERICAN!
he born in Bethlehem man ::)
or hor he naturalised then

 :rotfl:

http://www.bethlehem-pa.gov/

Offline dinho

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2009, 10:46:14 PM »

Atheists, enjoy life?
Most of the non-believers I've encountered are gloomy blighters with a depressing message that there is no purpose to life

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/24/atheism-religion

    * Mary Kenny
    *
          o Mary Kenny
          o guardian.co.uk, Friday 24 October 2008 14.35 BST

As I believe in freedom of opinion – as well as God – I have no problem with London's buses carrying the slogan "There is probably no God"; although I would admire the bravery of the advertisers more if they added "or Allah". But, if people want to contribute Ł100,000 to an advertising slogan – great. It shows that capitalism (and its adjunct, marketing) works in the cause of freedom of opinion. The best guarantee of freedom of expression is not a charter of rights or a bill of free speech, but diversity in media and communications.

I don't agree with the slogan in question, but then I don't agree with a lot of advertised opinions. I know them to be bunkum, like the beauty creams that offer to "turn back time". I disbelieve such claims because they do not accord with my experience: such lotions have been employed for years, and time has marched relentlessly on. The coda in the London bus secularist message "so relax and enjoy life" strikes me as bunkum rather on a par with beauty cream claims, and for the same reasons: it does not accord with my experience.

Far from relaxing and enjoying life, most atheists I have encountered are gloomy blighters with a depressing and nihilistic message that there is no purpose to life so where's the point of anything? They so often fall into the category defined by GK Chesterton: "Those that do not have the faith/Will not have the fun." You only have to attend one of their dreary humanist funerals to see that – I am never going to another of those, just to be made miserable.

I'm not against people having different opinions; what I'm against is people in influential positions never having their opinions challenged. Far more nauseating than the open slogans on the London buses, subscribed to and paid for, are such phenomena as art installations by the likes of Gilbert and George consisting of the words "Ban religion", over and over again. They are then fawningly interviewed by a deferential Evan Davis on BBC Radio 4, when they should be subjected to the same kind of rigour as John Humphrys doing over the chancellor of the exchequer. Incidentally, if Gilbert and George had lived in a country which banned religion – Enver Hoxha's Albania – they would have been dispatched to perform menial agricultural work, if not to a gulag.

In short, let us have discourse and debate about these matters of faith and non-faith. Does it not say in St Paul: "Come, let us reason together"? Advertising is discourse: it is a form of communication which people are free to accept or reject. It probably further stimulates debate. It may even stimulate someone to write a book called "The Tolerant Atheist", in which the author affirms that while he is not a believer himself, he accepts the evidence that for countless numbers, religious faith gets them through the night: and its beauty, language, optimism, music and architecture helps them relax and enjoy life.
         

Offline Bakes

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2009, 10:54:14 PM »
it real sad but this atheist organization cyah raise one-thousandth of what the roman catholic church raising. people doh want to hear de trute, is only fantasy stories they want to hear. j.k. rowling have more pull then these jokers.

e.o. wilson made the point that intelligence eh no evolutionary advantage - only a handful of species in the world can even count. most species on planet earth making do without electricity, language, physics, internet, etc.. 

the roach shall inherit the earth.

... makes you think that there's hope fuh even you, eh?

truetrini

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2009, 10:58:14 PM »
The writer of that articel obviously does not get out much..Allah is de same as God and most athists are great scientists and contributors to this green planet we call earth...without these brave men and women allyuh woulda still be living inde dark ages thinking the earth is de center of the universe, the earth flat etc.

get over it..allyuh is de gloomy ones. with hell fire and heaven and devil etc....allyuh always looking to make allyuh self feel better hence de need to create a god or gods to explain things...look to science  the answer and the truth is out dere......SCIENCE!

And me eh mean christian scientists eh dem is neither christinas nor scientists


Atheists, enjoy life?
Most of the non-believers I've encountered are gloomy blighters with a depressing message that there is no purpose to life

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/24/atheism-religion

    * Mary Kenny
    *
          o Mary Kenny
          o guardian.co.uk, Friday 24 October 2008 14.35 BST

As I believe in freedom of opinion – as well as God – I have no problem with London's buses carrying the slogan "There is probably no God"; although I would admire the bravery of the advertisers more if they added "or Allah". But, if people want to contribute Ł100,000 to an advertising slogan – great. It shows that capitalism (and its adjunct, marketing) works in the cause of freedom of opinion. The best guarantee of freedom of expression is not a charter of rights or a bill of free speech, but diversity in media and communications.

I don't agree with the slogan in question, but then I don't agree with a lot of advertised opinions. I know them to be bunkum, like the beauty creams that offer to "turn back time". I disbelieve such claims because they do not accord with my experience: such lotions have been employed for years, and time has marched relentlessly on. The coda in the London bus secularist message "so relax and enjoy life" strikes me as bunkum rather on a par with beauty cream claims, and for the same reasons: it does not accord with my experience.

Far from relaxing and enjoying life, most atheists I have encountered are gloomy blighters with a depressing and nihilistic message that there is no purpose to life so where's the point of anything? They so often fall into the category defined by GK Chesterton: "Those that do not have the faith/Will not have the fun." You only have to attend one of their dreary humanist funerals to see that – I am never going to another of those, just to be made miserable.

I'm not against people having different opinions; what I'm against is people in influential positions never having their opinions challenged. Far more nauseating than the open slogans on the London buses, subscribed to and paid for, are such phenomena as art installations by the likes of Gilbert and George consisting of the words "Ban religion", over and over again. They are then fawningly interviewed by a deferential Evan Davis on BBC Radio 4, when they should be subjected to the same kind of rigour as John Humphrys doing over the chancellor of the exchequer. Incidentally, if Gilbert and George had lived in a country which banned religion – Enver Hoxha's Albania – they would have been dispatched to perform menial agricultural work, if not to a gulag.

In short, let us have discourse and debate about these matters of faith and non-faith. Does it not say in St Paul: "Come, let us reason together"? Advertising is discourse: it is a form of communication which people are free to accept or reject. It probably further stimulates debate. It may even stimulate someone to write a book called "The Tolerant Atheist", in which the author affirms that while he is not a believer himself, he accepts the evidence that for countless numbers, religious faith gets them through the night: and its beauty, language, optimism, music and architecture helps them relax and enjoy life.


Offline WestCoast

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2009, 10:58:29 PM »

Atheists, enjoy life?
Most of the non-believers I've encountered are gloomy blighters with a depressing message that there is no purpose to life

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/24/atheism-religion

As I believe in freedom of opinion – as well as God – I have no problem with London's buses carrying the slogan "There is probably no God"; although I would admire the bravery of the advertisers more if they added "or Allah".
you got that right ;)
think Salman Rushdie
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2009, 11:00:32 PM »

Atheists, enjoy life?
Most of the non-believers I've encountered are gloomy blighters with a depressing message that there is no purpose to life

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/24/atheism-religion

As I believe in freedom of opinion – as well as God – I have no problem with London's buses carrying the slogan "There is probably no God"; although I would admire the bravery of the advertisers more if they added "or Allah".
you got that right ;)
think Salman Rushdie
he still hidin out in london
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline pecan

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2009, 06:43:38 AM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.

what if they believe in the big bang theory?

God created the Universe and the laws that govern it.  If the universe is destined to contract then expand cyclically for ever, that so be it.

Science and religion are not mutually exclusive.

No joke, my best friends are atheists.




Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2009, 06:44:40 AM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.

GOD INVENTED BLUE JEANS, APPLE PIE AND THE INTERNET..HE IS AMERICAN!
That is your best argument to date for the non-existence of God   :devil:
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2009, 09:12:43 AM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.

GOD INVENTED BLUE JEANS, APPLE PIE AND THE INTERNET..HE IS AMERICAN!
That is your best argument to date for the non-existence of God   :devil:

oh and please present your best arguement for the existence of God, i'd love to hear the evidence.

if you can wrap my reasonable mind around the concept of their being some kind of father figure holy entity that created the inifinite space that is existence, and then also wrap me sensibly around the moral justifications of why he created a world with millions of people dying from war, starvation, aids, kids born with cancer? what about the billions of women and children that starve to death every day... comming into a world of poverty, suffering, neglect...

explain to me why i should have faith in this fairy tale god inspite of all of that, i wouldnt say i promote non belief, however, it angers me incredibly to see people just say shit like  "God created the universe" give me a real reason to believe it.


cuz so far, if i think as honestly and sensibly as i can to myself i feel like i am betraying anyone who suffers for believing that everything happens for a reason. I feel like its an excuse, a cop out... a way to help people sleep at night without tearing themselves aprt about the fact that people are dying everyday or suffering in various different ways that you could probably take a few minutes out of your day to help by some directly personal way or some indirect extension.

religion and the belief in God seems more pinned for being a coaxing tool of misguided hope and justification for controlling the will of mass amounts of people, "people" that are so vulnerable to hopes and promises.

people that will do anything to be secure and believe.


explain to me please what reason i have to believe other than to comfort myself??
since ah born or at least circa Copa Caribe

Offline pecan

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2009, 09:48:33 AM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.

GOD INVENTED BLUE JEANS, APPLE PIE AND THE INTERNET..HE IS AMERICAN!
That is your best argument to date for the non-existence of God   :devil:

oh and please present your best arguement for the existence of God, i'd love to hear the evidence.

if you can wrap my reasonable mind around the concept of their being some kind of father figure holy entity that created the inifinite space that is existence, and then also wrap me sensibly around the moral justifications of why he created a world with millions of people dying from war, starvation, aids, kids born with cancer? what about the billions of women and children that starve to death every day... comming into a world of poverty, suffering, neglect...

explain to me why i should have faith in this fairy tale god inspite of all of that, i wouldnt say i promote non belief, however, it angers me incredibly to see people just say shit like  "God created the universe" give me a real reason to believe it.


cuz so far, if i think as honestly and sensibly as i can to myself i feel like i am betraying anyone who suffers for believing that everything happens for a reason. I feel like its an excuse, a cop out... a way to help people sleep at night without tearing themselves aprt about the fact that people are dying everyday or suffering in various different ways that you could probably take a few minutes out of your day to help by some directly personal way or some indirect extension.

religion and the belief in God seems more pinned for being a coaxing tool of misguided hope and justification for controlling the will of mass amounts of people, "people" that are so vulnerable to hopes and promises.

people that will do anything to be secure and believe.


explain to me please what reason i have to believe other than to comfort myself??

in my opinion, there is no good argument for the existence of God.

It is a belief system i.e faith.

Just as there is no good argument for the non-existence of God.  Just the other side of the same coin.

Some people function quite well believing in God just as some people function quite well not believing.

I began to believe in God to hedge my bets (Pascal Wager or Gambit).  I was being pragmatic - oh, another pragmatic reason for believing is that religious believers tend to be happier than atheists

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/mar/08031807.html

But I contemplated the world around me, I began to accept the existence of a God because I refused to believe that the complexity of the universe 'just happened' by itself.  Yeah, I know that this begs the question, who created God? etc. Perhaps another God created this God an so on.  This logic is consistent with the concept of infinity which is a fundamental concept in mathematics.

Keep in mind,

I do not believe in destiny i.e everything happens for a reason  - I reject that logic.  The universe is random.

I do not believe in the Bible verbatim - that is just a history of how man has perceived God over the last 10,000 years.

I reject the use of religion to control people, the same way I reject how many non-religious leaders have controlled people

if you can wrap my reasonable mind around the concept of their being some kind of father figure holy entity that created the inifinite space that is existence, and then also wrap me sensibly around the moral justifications of why he created a world with millions of people dying from war, starvation, aids, kids born with cancer? what about the billions of women and children that starve to death every day... comming into a world of poverty, suffering, neglect...

Because the alternative does not make sense.  What would be the purpose of existing? 

In my view of God (which many fundamentalists would reject), the universe was set in motion and unfolds according to the laws of physics.

How we live within that chaos give a modicum of reason for existence.

Let say there is no God, we still have millions of people dying everyday etc.  So we have two choice - believe or not believe.  I chose to believe.  You don't.   I don't get angry with you for not believing so there is no need for you to be angry with me for saying GOd created the Universe.

WE BOTH DO NOT HAVE PROOF.
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

truetrini

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2009, 10:39:55 AM »
There is no need dear Pecan to attempt to justify the existence of something that does not exist...futility.

truetrini

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2009, 10:40:21 AM »
I fi clone myself does that cloned person have a soul?

Offline Jefferz

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2009, 10:43:36 AM »
God made atheists too.  They should thank him.

GOD INVENTED BLUE JEANS, APPLE PIE AND THE INTERNET..HE IS AMERICAN!
That is your best argument to date for the non-existence of God   :devil:

oh and please present your best arguement for the existence of God, i'd love to hear the evidence.

if you can wrap my reasonable mind around the concept of their being some kind of father figure holy entity that created the inifinite space that is existence, and then also wrap me sensibly around the moral justifications of why he created a world with millions of people dying from war, starvation, aids, kids born with cancer? what about the billions of women and children that starve to death every day... comming into a world of poverty, suffering, neglect...

explain to me why i should have faith in this fairy tale god inspite of all of that, i wouldnt say i promote non belief, however, it angers me incredibly to see people just say shit like  "God created the universe" give me a real reason to believe it.


cuz so far, if i think as honestly and sensibly as i can to myself i feel like i am betraying anyone who suffers for believing that everything happens for a reason. I feel like its an excuse, a cop out... a way to help people sleep at night without tearing themselves aprt about the fact that people are dying everyday or suffering in various different ways that you could probably take a few minutes out of your day to help by some directly personal way or some indirect extension.

religion and the belief in God seems more pinned for being a coaxing tool of misguided hope and justification for controlling the will of mass amounts of people, "people" that are so vulnerable to hopes and promises.

people that will do anything to be secure and believe.


explain to me please what reason i have to believe other than to comfort myself??

in my opinion, there is no good argument for the existence of God.

It is a belief system i.e faith.

Just as there is no good argument for the non-existence of God.  Just the other side of the same coin.

Some people function quite well believing in God just as some people function quite well not believing.

I began to believe in God to hedge my bets (Pascal Wager or Gambit).  I was being pragmatic - oh, another pragmatic reason for believing is that religious believers tend to be happier than atheists

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/mar/08031807.html

But I contemplated the world around me, I began to accept the existence of a God because I refused to believe that the complexity of the universe 'just happened' by itself.  Yeah, I know that this begs the question, who created God? etc. Perhaps another God created this God an so on.  This logic is consistent with the concept of infinity which is a fundamental concept in mathematics.

Keep in mind,

I do not believe in destiny i.e everything happens for a reason  - I reject that logic.  The universe is random.

I do not believe in the Bible verbatim - that is just a history of how man has perceived God over the last 10,000 years.

I reject the use of religion to control people, the same way I reject how many non-religious leaders have controlled people

if you can wrap my reasonable mind around the concept of their being some kind of father figure holy entity that created the inifinite space that is existence, and then also wrap me sensibly around the moral justifications of why he created a world with millions of people dying from war, starvation, aids, kids born with cancer? what about the billions of women and children that starve to death every day... comming into a world of poverty, suffering, neglect...

Because the alternative does not make sense.  What would be the purpose of existing? 

In my view of God (which many fundamentalists would reject), the universe was set in motion and unfolds according to the laws of physics.

How we live within that chaos give a modicum of reason for existence.

Let say there is no God, we still have millions of people dying everyday etc.  So we have two choice - believe or not believe.  I chose to believe.  You don't.   I don't get angry with you for not believing so there is no need for you to be angry with me for saying GOd created the Universe.

WE BOTH DO NOT HAVE PROOF.

yes however you were saying that this god created the universe and i wasnt saying he didnt exist im just not making bold lofty statements of which i dont know to be absolutely true and hold them to be gospel.

you did however present a decent arguement and i respect your intellectual capacity, a capacity that i think i quite underestimated, also though,

"Because the alternative does not make sense.  What would be the purpose of existing?  "


thats just it is that sometimes i wonder if there is at all any point to existing at all.



i suppose we'll all just have to wait until our own ends to find out.
since ah born or at least circa Copa Caribe

Offline pecan

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2009, 10:57:26 AM »
I fi clone myself does that cloned person have a soul?

oh f**k. Two of you in this universe?

You right God does not exist. :devil:
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline pecan

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Re: How will the solar system end?
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2009, 10:58:15 AM »
There is no need dear Pecan to attempt to justify the existence of something that does not exist...futility.

Good point.
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

 

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