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Offline acb

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Inconsistent Refereeing
« on: February 05, 2009, 12:57:30 AM »
Just when I thought we had beaten the Bosingwa incident to death on the Chelsea vs Liverpool thread, comes this:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/04022009/58/premier-league-wright-phillips-charged.html

Quote
Premier League - Wright-Phillips charged
Eurosport - Wed, 04 Feb 20:55:00 2009
 

Manchester City winger Shaun Wright-Phillips has been charged with violent conduct by the FA after a video replay of Saturday's Premier League win over Stoke City.

Stoke midfielder Rory Delap was sent off for kicking the ball at Wright-Phillips while he lay on the ground.

Wright-Phillips then appeared to kick out at Delap in retaliation but the referee did not see that.

"The incident was not seen by referee Martin Atkinson. Having now watched video footage of the incident, Atkinson has informed The FA that, had he seen it at the time, he would have shown Wright-Phillips a red card for violent conduct[/u]," an FA statement said.

Reuters

Ok, so the correct thing was done in the SWP-Delap bustup. Both players deserved to be red carded, and both were.

1st thing - If Delap was red carded for kicking a ball into SWP as he lay on the ground, why wasn't Gerrard sent off for kicking a ball into Bosingwa as he lay on the ground?
The referees saw both incidents.
Martin Atikinson issued a red card, and Mike Riley issued a verbal warning.

2nd thing - Mike Riley said that he did not see Bosingwa stamp Benayoun. Martin Atkinson said he did not see SWP kick out at Delap. Bosingwa's incident was rendered a non-issue. SWP is issued a red card.

WTF?
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Offline acb

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 01:03:47 AM »
Here is ex-Manchester United player, Paul Parker, commenting on the issue:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/paul-parker/article/2199/

Quote
Let's give referees a break
Wed Feb 04 11:49AM

There has been a lot of referee-bashing this week after Frank Lampard's red card against Liverpool.

We give refs such a hard time it's amazing that anyone would ever want to do the job. But the four officials can make their lives a bit easier if they communicate.

Referees are wearing microphones - unless they are just long sticks of Liquorice they should be using them to consult with their linesmen and the fourth official.

Mike Riley made an honest decision based on what he thought he saw when he sent Lampard off. But it would only have taken a couple of seconds for one of the other officials to tell him it was not a red card.

Never mind that the three-match ban was overturned. The decision eventually cost Chelsea a point and might even decide the Premier League title - referees need to take time to get the big decisions right.

The fourth official should be doing more than just playing Dear Deirdre with the two managers. He should be following the game on a TV monitor so he can see what everybody around the country knew immediately - that it wasn't a sending-off offence.

And if he needs to watch a replay, which can be done very quickly - there is no need to stop the game for minutes at a time.

As for Jose Bosingwa's 'tackle' on Yossi Benayoun, I don't understand the regulations at all. No further action can be taken because the linesman saw the incident, and to go above his head would supposedly undermine him.

But surely it erodes the officials' credibility much more if a blatant miscarriage of justice is allowed to stand?

Referees are human and they can get things wrong. That doesn't mean their decisions are taken lightly. I'm sure Mike Riley felt just as bad as any Chelsea fan on Sunday night.

Nobody makes more mistakes on the pitch than the players, but they are able to get away with them while we pounce on the slightest slip from the ref.

They are lambs to the slaughter. People say more ex-pros should become referees, but it would have to be players from the lower leagues.

Why would you subject yourself to the abuse unless you needed the money? No Premier League player on today's wages would subject themselves to ridicule every time they went out in public. You are basically agreeing to ruin your own life and your family's to be a referee.

Technology has been used in cricket and rugby without ruining the game, and the same can be done in football.

Until then, the officials need to stick together and work as a team. They should consult with each other, make decisions together and take collective responsibility if they get something wrong.

Plus players can help them out by behaving with more honesty on the pitch. If a referee makes 10 bad decisions in a game, I bet eight of them come from players conning him.

A disciplinary panel should look at every game within 24 hours, and if they see any blatant examples of diving they should ban players.

Last weekend we saw clear dives from Steven Taylor and Steven Gerrard - both Englishmen, I'm afraid to say - but there will be no consequences for either man.

People who cheat need to be named, shamed and suspended. Gerrard is a magnificent player and Liverpool cannot do without him. I'm sure he would soon cut out the darker side of his game if he knew he was going to get a ban.


Who is Paul Parker?

Quote
Paul Parker enjoyed a distinguished career for club and country. The versatile defender won 19 England caps and played the 1990 World Cup semi-final against West Germany. After spells at Fulham and QPR, Paul joined Manchester United in 1991, where he helped the club claim their first league title for 26 years, and won the Double twice. During six seasons at Old Trafford, he played with legends such as Eric Cantona, Roy Keane and David Beckham.
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Offline kev

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 02:06:01 AM »
Thats the problem with it though, if the ref sees it and doesn't dish out the correct punishment then the FA claim there is nothing they can do.

If the ref sees what he thinks is a red card offence and sends a player off and his judgement is wrong then it can be rescinded.

However this is further complicated that a yellow card can't be rescinded so if the ref does above but its the players 2nd yellow in the game meaning he is sent off no appeal / rescind is possible.  Liverpool player last night his 1st yellow was never a tackle never mind a card.

The whole thing is a mess, I think everybody agrees that rescinding red cards issued wrongly is fair, but what is really happening here is that teh FA are effectingly saying if the refs judgements wrong and it results in a red card it can be rescinded if the other way nothing is done, to be seen to be fair it should be the same both ways or none.  At the minute its a mess and just a cop out.  Its nearly as bad as the offside rule / joke, but nothing could be as bad as they have made that (FIFA not FA)

Offline Bakes

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009, 02:39:03 AM »
You fellas making a meal of this unnecessarily...

Ok, so the correct thing was done in the SWP-Delap bustup. Both players deserved to be red carded, and both were.

1st thing - If Delap was red carded for kicking a ball into SWP as he lay on the ground, why wasn't Gerrard sent off for kicking a ball into Bosingwa as he lay on the ground?

The referees saw both incidents.
Martin Atikinson issued a red card, and Mike Riley issued a verbal warning.


Because ostensibly Gerrard was shooting at goal, no?  Delap can make no such pretense (assuming Gerrard deliberately tried to hit Bosingwa).  Besides for crying out loud... the larger issue is that such judgements are left to the discretion of the official.  What one may card for the other will verbally admonish.  Inconsistent... yes.  Fixable... no.

Build a bridge... get over it.


2nd thing - Mike Riley said that he did not see Bosingwa stamp Benayoun. Martin Atkinson said he did not see SWP kick out at Delap. Bosingwa's incident was rendered a non-issue. SWP is issued a red card.

WTF?

Mike Riley didn't see the incident... but guess what Sherlock, Mo Matadar (the linesman) did and in his judgment there was no infraction.  Mike Riley himself said so, or did you miss that?  The controlling issue isn't whether THE REFEREE sees the incident, it's whether THE OFFICIALS see the incident and decide to not take issue.  This did NOT happen in the SWP incident therefore the FA could sanction, according to FIFA rules... as the FA states them.

It's really not that difficult.

---------

Paul Parker additionally talking a pack of speculative ass about Lampard's sending off costing Chelsea a point and possibly the title.  His position presumes the fact that Chelsea, with Lampard would have held Liverpool to a draw.  Why isn't he arguing that the sending off cost them 3 points instead?  Because he knows the notion is ludicrous.

We can argue that the extra man contributed to the goal but no one can say so definitively... at least not as clear cut as he's making it out to be.  For all we know Torres still would have scored on his first goal because he was still 'properly' (formation, not technique/execution) being marked by Alex... he just out-hustled him.  We can then argue that perhaps Arbeloa (was it?) would not have had enough time to cross the ball with an 11th man in blue, but who knows.  Entirely too speculative.

Besides... Rob Stiles was villified and demoted, but no one raised a fuss about him costing Liverpool 2 points by gifting Chelsea a victory (when a draw seemed imminent) in the 2007-2008 season opener when he awarded a penalty against Carragher for a phantom foul on Malouda in the box.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 02:47:20 AM by Bake n Shark »

Offline Arazi

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009, 03:10:26 AM »
You fellas making a meal of this unnecessarily...

Ok, so the correct thing was done in the SWP-Delap bustup. Both players deserved to be red carded, and both were.

1st thing - If Delap was red carded for kicking a ball into SWP as he lay on the ground, why wasn't Gerrard sent off for kicking a ball into Bosingwa as he lay on the ground?

The referees saw both incidents.
Martin Atikinson issued a red card, and Mike Riley issued a verbal warning.


Because ostensibly Gerrard was shooting at goal, no?  Delap can make no such pretense (assuming Gerrard deliberately tried to hit Bosingwa).  Besides for crying out loud... the larger issue is that such judgements are left to the discretion of the official.  What one may card for the other will verbally admonish.  Inconsistent... yes.  Fixable... no.

Build a bridge... get over it.


2nd thing - Mike Riley said that he did not see Bosingwa stamp Benayoun. Martin Atkinson said he did not see SWP kick out at Delap. Bosingwa's incident was rendered a non-issue. SWP is issued a red card.

WTF?

Mike Riley didn't see the incident... but guess what Sherlock, Mo Matadar (the linesman) did and in his judgment there was no infraction.  Mike Riley himself said so, or did you miss that?  The controlling issue isn't whether THE REFEREE sees the incident, it's whether THE OFFICIALS see the incident and decide to not take issue.  This did NOT happen in the SWP incident therefore the FA could sanction, according to FIFA rules... as the FA states them.

It's really not that difficult.

---------

Paul Parker additionally talking a pack of speculative ass about Lampard's sending off costing Chelsea a point and possibly the title.  His position presumes the fact that Chelsea, with Lampard would have held Liverpool to a draw.  Why isn't he arguing that the sending off cost them 3 points instead?  Because he knows the notion is ludicrous.

We can argue that the extra man contributed to the goal but no one can say so definitively... at least not as clear cut as he's making it out to be.  For all we know Torres still would have scored on his first goal because he was still 'properly' (formation, not technique/execution) being marked by Alex... he just out-hustled him.  We can then argue that perhaps Arbeloa (was it?) would not have had enough time to cross the ball with an 11th man in blue, but who knows.  Entirely too speculative.

Besides... Rob Stiles was villified and demoted, but no one raised a fuss about him costing Liverpool 2 points by gifting Chelsea a victory (when a draw seemed imminent) in the 2007-2008 season opener when he awarded a penalty against Carragher for a phantom foul on Malouda in the box.

Your inability to stay objective saddens me..guess what it's just speculation? why are you flustered to the point that you have to defend your side's victory against speculation?

what if lampard stayed on he field? maybe chelsea would have had more possession instead? maybe he could have scored? set up a goal? but it's maybe.. we don't know because it didn't happen..let it go!

Offline Bakes

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 04:03:14 AM »
Your inability to stay objective saddens me..guess what it's just speculation? why are you flustered to the point that you have to defend your side's victory against speculation?

what if lampard stayed on he field? maybe chelsea would have had more possession instead? maybe he could have scored? set up a goal? but it's maybe.. we don't know because it didn't happen..let it go!

 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Exactly what am I holding onto fella... my side won in case you didn't notice.  I don't have to "defend" my side's victory, three points is three points.  And trust me, I am far from 'flustered', these millionaires winning or losing dey matches never impacts me to that extent... so try yuh best.

I'm sorry that you are "saddened" by my stance, but dry your eyes b/c yuh tears starting to cloud not only yuh vision, but yuh judgement.  Chelsea, with Lampard on the field played level shit for the better part of 60 mins and were thoroughly dominated and not for Alex and Cech probably would have spent more time taking the ball out the back of the net.

I could see if Lampard's foul resulted in a goal or even a direct goal-scoring opportunity, but that didn't happen... did it?  would Lampard have been covering Aurelio on the right wing when he crossed the ball for Torres' header?  Would Lampard being on the pitch prevented Ashley Cole's case of brain cramp in his own penalty box gifting the ball to Benayoun so that he could feed Torres' the sitter?  I think not.  Maybe the game would have ended in a draw, maybe not... pure speculation, as I said.

Offline fishs

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 05:43:49 AM »
Your inability to stay objective saddens me..guess what it's just speculation? why are you flustered to the point that you have to defend your side's victory against speculation?

what if lampard stayed on he field? maybe chelsea would have had more possession instead? maybe he could have scored? set up a goal? but it's maybe.. we don't know because it didn't happen..let it go!

 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Exactly what am I holding onto fella... my side won in case you didn't notice.  I don't have to "defend" my side's victory, three points is three points.  And trust me, I am far from 'flustered', these millionaires winning or losing dey matches never impacts me to that extent... so try yuh best.

I'm sorry that you are "saddened" by my stance, but dry your eyes b/c yuh tears starting to cloud not only yuh vision, but yuh judgement.  Chelsea, with Lampard on the field played level shit for the better part of 60 mins and were thoroughly dominated and not for Alex and Cech probably would have spent more time taking the ball out the back of the net.

I could see if Lampard's foul resulted in a goal or even a direct goal-scoring opportunity, but that didn't happen... did it?  would Lampard have been covering Aurelio on the right wing when he crossed the ball for Torres' header?  Would Lampard being on the pitch prevented Ashley Cole's case of brain cramp in his own penalty box gifting the ball to Benayoun so that he could feed Torres' the sitter?  I think not.  Maybe the game would have ended in a draw, maybe not... pure speculation, as I said.

Ahmmm yuh boss ( Rafa) blaming yuh lorse to us because Lucas get send off.
Lol notwithstanding that Everton is the better side , I guess everybody could use a debatable red card to cry " foul".  ;D ;D
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Offline Bourbon

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 06:18:37 AM »
Really and truly...if you look at the Bosingwa's incident the linesman was more watching the corner flag than what was actually going on. If you look at his eyes he was more fixated on the corner flag...and probably thought he fell due to Drogba...not because of anything else. So that might explain why he gave the foul the other direction..and didnt take it on. Still...i would think that after viewing video evidence.....Bosingwa shoulda suffer some consequences.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 09:45:52 AM »
Really and truly...if you look at the Bosingwa's incident the linesman was more watching the corner flag than what was actually going on. If you look at his eyes he was more fixated on the corner flag...and probably thought he fell due to Drogba...not because of anything else. So that might explain why he gave the foul the other direction..and didnt take it on. Still...i would think that after viewing video evidence.....Bosingwa shoulda suffer some consequences.

To be honest when I first see it live and the initial replays I was like "de man RIGHT dey... how he eh call dat??".  Later on I too thought he was more fixated on Benayoun holding onto de flag... but den they come out and say that he saw de play, so I was like..."okay".

Fishs... sometimes a sending off could have a direct impact on the score, sometimes it's less direct.  I didn't see the game against Everton yesterday so I can't say.  I tend to be skeptical when it comes to them kinda things sometimes though.  Given the overall play and the manner in which both goals were scored against Chelsea I don't see a direct relation.

Offline Big Magician

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2009, 10:15:15 AM »
Rory Delap shoulda throw de ball at him instead  of kicking it...
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Offline acb

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2009, 02:17:35 PM »
Bakes, you bring up good points, but the first thing that strikes me, which some of the other posters alluded to is the glaring inconsistency.

Quote
Besides for crying out loud... the larger issue is that such judgements are left to the discretion of the official.  What one may card for the other will verbally admonish.  Inconsistent... yes.  Fixable... no.

I think it is fixable.
Referees are asked to apply the letter of the law when it comes to certain fouls.
There is no discretion when it comes to studs up, elbows, professional fouls, fouls by the last defender, etc. Most of those fouls are demanded by the FA to be met with punishment by cards. Lampard was yellow carded after Saturday's incident because he argued with Riley, which stemming from the RESPECT campaign, is a no no by players to question to referees decision - so we can effectively throw discretion out the window.

It's easy to argue that no-one cares about Man City - Stoke, hence there is no outcry over the result, but we could also say that since justice was meted out to both transgressors, that the public is happy that fairness was administered, albeit long after the game was called.

For one, I wouldn't make the arguement that the goals resulted in the sending off. To me, it's as silly as trying to argue that if someone had hustled for a ball, instead of letting it go out of play that it would have altered the result of the game. I think even the most ardent Chelsea fans would be hard pressed to admit that they knew that 11 men on the field would 100% change the outcome of the game - anything else would be delusional.

Tracing back to the Gerrard-Bosingwa incident: I know that Gerrard has scored some outrageous goals, but to say that Gerrard was ostensibly shooting at goal from deep within the Liverpool half of the field with his aim towards the sidelines, more than towards the goal - that shot would need to some serious Brasilian flair and swerve. Gerrard kicked the ball into Bosingwa, and that was his intention. We can chalk it up to insanity, like Bosingwa's incident with Benayoun.

Look back to the last Gold Cup when TT was playing their last game of the first round - a TT defender was sent off for flaying his arm, that accidentaly caught the forward. While the forward played it up - the referee did was what correct after consulting with his linesman.

Fast forward to the game versus Guatemala in Guatemala. Wildman Cyd fly in with a typical wildman tackle and get sent packing. You could say that Cyd was upset by all the play acting and cynical fouls that Guat was doing leading up to that tackle, but nothing still excuses him, or the referee from making that decision.

I think that discretion does play a part in refereeing decisions - we're all human afterwards. However, discretion needs to be used in less subjective aspects of the game, such as determining how much added injury time is required, or should play be halted if a player is laying injured on the field, or if a ball was inadvertantly handled. But in contentious and potentially game changing incidents that puts one team at a distinct advantage over the other: sending off, penalties, etc. - there needs to less discretion and more consistency.
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Offline dinho

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2009, 02:34:25 PM »
maybe the way to go is to get some foreign referees to improve the standard of refereeing in the EPL just like they have foreign players..

because quite frankly, the standard of refereeing in that league is shocking.

Howard Webb aside (and even he slipping up these days), all dem refs not worthy of that level of football. Riley does get intimidated easy and does ketch vaps and dish out red to make it look like he cant get intimidated..

Mark Halsey, the plump-looking one who always jabbering and arguing and does look like ah real rum drinker.. he eh calm at all...

Rob Styles is real mess.. Steve Bennet ok-ish but still not up to par. Alan Wiley is a next one. Plus ALL THEM REFS does real favor the big sides.

You can place the face to the names here..

http://www.epltalk.com/guide-to-20082009-premier-league-referees/2740

Its the reason why English referees never get selected past the knockout stages in big international tournaments. Their best ref up to a few years ago was supposedly Graham Poll and he give ah man 3 yellows ???

When you look at the standard of refereeing of people like Kim Milton Nielsen, Horatio Elizondo, Markus Merk and the now retired Anders Frisk, yuh cant help but think that the EPL might be better off outsourcing.
         

Offline g

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2009, 02:50:12 PM »
Both Gerrard and Boswinga should have been sent off for their challenges, neither were so let it rest.

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Offline Bakes

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2009, 03:16:15 PM »
Bakes, you bring up good points, but the first thing that strikes me, which some of the other posters alluded to is the glaring inconsistency.

Quote
Besides for crying out loud... the larger issue is that such judgements are left to the discretion of the official.  What one may card for the other will verbally admonish.  Inconsistent... yes.  Fixable... no.

I think it is fixable.
Referees are asked to apply the letter of the law when it comes to certain fouls.
There is no discretion when it comes to studs up, elbows, professional fouls, fouls by the last defender, etc. Most of those fouls are demanded by the FA to be met with punishment by cards. Lampard was yellow carded after Saturday's incident because he argued with Riley, which stemming from the RESPECT campaign, is a no no by players to question to referees decision - so we can effectively throw discretion out the window.

It's easy to argue that no-one cares about Man City - Stoke, hence there is no outcry over the result, but we could also say that since justice was meted out to both transgressors, that the public is happy that fairness was administered, albeit long after the game was called.

For one, I wouldn't make the arguement that the goals resulted in the sending off. To me, it's as silly as trying to argue that if someone had hustled for a ball, instead of letting it go out of play that it would have altered the result of the game. I think even the most ardent Chelsea fans would be hard pressed to admit that they knew that 11 men on the field would 100% change the outcome of the game - anything else would be delusional.

Tracing back to the Gerrard-Bosingwa incident: I know that Gerrard has scored some outrageous goals, but to say that Gerrard was ostensibly shooting at goal from deep within the Liverpool half of the field with his aim towards the sidelines, more than towards the goal - that shot would need to some serious Brasilian flair and swerve. Gerrard kicked the ball into Bosingwa, and that was his intention. We can chalk it up to insanity, like Bosingwa's incident with Benayoun.

Look back to the last Gold Cup when TT was playing their last game of the first round - a TT defender was sent off for flaying his arm, that accidentaly caught the forward. While the forward played it up - the referee did was what correct after consulting with his linesman.

Fast forward to the game versus Guatemala in Guatemala. Wildman Cyd fly in with a typical wildman tackle and get sent packing. You could say that Cyd was upset by all the play acting and cynical fouls that Guat was doing leading up to that tackle, but nothing still excuses him, or the referee from making that decision.

I think that discretion does play a part in refereeing decisions - we're all human afterwards. However, discretion needs to be used in less subjective aspects of the game, such as determining how much added injury time is required, or should play be halted if a player is laying injured on the field, or if a ball was inadvertantly handled. But in contentious and potentially game changing incidents that puts one team at a distinct advantage over the other: sending off, penalties, etc. - there needs to less discretion and more consistency.

I'm honestly not sure that it's quite as simple as you make it seem.

Offline acb

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2009, 03:49:48 PM »
... this is further complicated that a yellow card can't be rescinded so if the ref does above but its the players 2nd yellow in the game meaning he is sent off no appeal / rescind is possible ....

This is interesting, but cynical.

I know the likelihood of the following happening is small, but we've seen incidents where the wrongful player is yellow carded in a game - similar to the phantom fouls that you see in college and professional basketball.

It's preposterous that a blatant mistake like that can be made and allowed to be corrected, especially in the age where punishment such as suspensions and fines are amassed from individuals/ teams that rack up cards.
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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 05:01:28 PM »
BnS yuh fandom rell showin pal.  Which goal Gerrard was shooting at, the one between Bosingwa's legs?!! ::)


What parker said made a whole lotta sense as far as communicating etc with the rest of the official staff to get calls right.  As far as his speculation on the Lampard sending off, who knows what would have happened if he weren't sent off?  Considering both 'pool and Chelsea haven't been in great form lately though, a draw (or even the improbable Blues win) could easily down the line have proven beneficial.

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 05:30:11 PM »
check this out today in La Liga:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=goal_barca_alves_has&prov=goal&type=lgns

Quote
Barca Alves Has Yellow Card Rescinded

Barcelona will be able to include Daniel Alves in their squad for the game against Sporting Gijon this weekend, after the Brazilian had his fifth yellow card of the season rescinded on appeal.

Sport reports that Alves was originally given the ban by the Competition Committee, but he has appealed it today, and it was successful.

The card was picked up for diving in the box, and Barcelona must have shown today that he was not actually guilty of the crime.


The news means that Pep Guardiola will be able to choose him for the game with Sporting this weekend, and will only definitely be without Gerard Pique and Rafa Marquez.

The pair were both sent off against Racing Santander last weekend, and have not appealed any of the decisions.

The move to appeal the yellow card for Alves seems strange, considering the fact that Sporting at the Camp Nou appears to be one of the easier games for Barcelona this season.

Now, should Alves pick up another yellow card he will face a ban in the next game, and it could well be in a more important clash, against the likes of Atletico Madrid or Espanyol, both of whom they face soon.

Nevertheless, the Brazilian will not be free to play this Sunday, as Barcelona look to continue their march towards the league title.

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2009, 09:29:09 PM »
So this thread could probably be labelled "Imcompetent Refereeing" this week after the EPL came good once more.

Seems as though since the result of the Sunderland vs. Stoke game bailed out Rob Styles, things might be a bit overlooked.

Strange thing is that we could have had more of an uproar over the refereeing in this game.
Before Sunderland's 2nd goal, Danny Pugh had a half chance for an equaliser. If Pugh had scored, how would that have been treated today? especially since Pugh should have been sent off in the first half for a blatant handball. What gets me about this, is that the ref is supposed to be following the play and putting himself in a position where his view isn't obstructed - so how the hell can a ref say that he didn't see the play?

Stoke's coach isn't letting the Steven Gerrard misdeeds of last week go un-noticed either.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/08022009/1/bosses-blast-styles-sol-clash.html

Quote
Bosses blast Styles after SOL clash
Sun 08 Feb, 09:30 AM

Ricky Sbragia felt Sunderland let Rob Styles off for a mistake against Stoke, but Tony Pulis said he was wrong to send off Matthew Etherington.Goals from Kenwyne Jones and substitute David Healy inside the final 13 minutes at the Stadium of Light condemned Stoke to a 2-0 defeat.

However, the Black Cats were fuming not to be leading at the break after Styles and his assistant missed substitute Danny Pugh's handball on the line from Steed Malbranque's 39th-minute header.

Pugh would have conceded a penalty and been sent off had the officials spotted his offence, and although Etherington was later dismissed for kicking out at Danny Collins, the Wearsiders would have felt aggrieved if they had not emerged with all three points.

Asked if he had spoken to the referee about the incident, Sbragia said: "No, I didn't bother.

"He didn't give it. I am disappointed, but I don't want to get into trouble for saying what I think.

"We just had to get on with it and focus on the game. He didn't give it, but he is off the hook.

"If it had ended 0-0, we might have complained a little bit more about it."

Styles' astonishing error came 39 minutes into a tight game after Malbranque met Andy Reid's cross with a header at the far post.

Pugh, an 18th-minute replacement for the injured Andy Wilkinson, handled the ball on the line, but he was spared when the official awarded only a goal-kick.

City boss Pulis said: "There was the incident with Danny Pugh - I don't know whether he chested it or handled it - which we got away with. If it was handball, we got away with it. But the sending off changed the game."

Etherington's departure came with 64 minutes gone, but the 10 men came close to taking the lead almost immediately when substitute Henri Camara hit the bar from just four yards.

However the breakthrough arrived for the home team with 77 minutes gone when Jones headed a Reid cross past Black Cats old boy Thomas Sorensen for his ninth goal of the season, and he then crossed for David Healy - who had earlier replaced Djibril Cisse - to make sure in injury-time.

Victory took Sunderland's tally from their last three games to seven points and eased them well clear of the drop zone ahead of difficult trips to Arsenal and Liverpool.

Sbragia said: "We are getting a little bit more difficult to beat. It's important to beat the teams around us.

"I know we have got two really difficult away game now, but in general, if we had got six points, I would have been happy, but seven points...and we have got an unbeaten record as well."

By contrast, the Potters left Wearside with their problems mounting with Etherington facing a ban and Wilkinson, Ryan Shawcross and Ricardo Fuller - who could be out for three months after dislocating his shoulder - all having left the pitch injured inside the opening 30 minutes.

They did so with Pulis pleading with Styles to look again at his decision to send Etherington off a week after Rory Delap incurred a three-match ban for his clash with Manchester City's Shaun Wright-Phillips.

Pulis said: "I am just hoping Rob Styles will have a look at the incident again.

"We had the same situation last week with Delap. I have looked at the incident and the first challenge is a free-kick against Wright-Phillips and the second one is unsporting behaviour when he kicks the ball against Wright-Phillips' legs.

"He gets a straight red and we miss him for three games. The next day, Steven Gerrard does exactly the same and he isn't even spoken to.

"Now, I am not asking for more, I am just asking for the same, and we have a right to have the same as everybody else. I just wanted to
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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2009, 09:35:26 PM »
... and not to forget the Gunner faithful

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/08022009/58/premier-league-eboue-bemused-red-card.html

Quote
Premier League - Eboue bemused by red card

Eurosport - Sun, 08 Feb 19:58:00 2009

Arsenal midfielder Emmanuel Eboue has apologised for his kicking out against Tottenham but insists referee Mike Dean was wrong to issue one of his two yellow cards - and to disallow his early strike at White Hart Lane.

Eboue had the ball in the net 13 minutes into the goalless draw but was penalised for a push on Jonathan Woodgate, a decision Gunners boss Arsene Wenger branded "not acceptable".

"It was a goal," the 25-year-old said. "I don't know why he did not give it. The referee said I touched Woodgate but I did not."

Dean then booked Eboue four minutes later for dissent after the Ivory Coast international fouled Luka Modric.

"For the first yellow card I did not say anything bad," Eboue said.

"I was in front of the ball and I was talking with Manuel Almunia. After that I said (to the referee) you have to whistle before and he said okay. I came back to take my place and then he called me and gave me a yellow card. I don't really understand why."

Eboue's dismissal, the 76th Arsenal red card under Wenger, came eight minutes before the break when he kicked out at Modric.

"I am sorry," he said. "This game was very, very important for us. We must always win when we play against Tottenham and give our best for the fans.

"I am so disappointed to get the red card but I say thank you to my friends who gave everything. We drew and we are happy. It is a good point for us after playing so long with 11 v 10."

He added: "For the second booking, I touched him. I put my leg up because [Modric] had touched me before in front of the referee and he did not say anything. He kicked me when I tried to go forward and I put my leg up. The second card is normal, I accept it.

"But for me the referee was not good today."

Wenger will look at the footage again before deciding whether he needs to discuss it or punish Eboue for losing his cool.

Earlier in the season he had to be replaced after coming on as a substitute after continually losing the ball against Wigan.

"I know I have to control myself (on the pitch) but I did not want to let Tottenham win," Eboue added. "I just wanted to give my best."

Sporting Life / Eurosport
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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2009, 09:38:42 AM »
Villa versus Everton right now.

Everton corner, Header on goal and BLATANT hand ball on the goal line (shouldve been and automatic red card) - Everton puts it back in and scores.
Ref didn't play advantage - just missed a ridiculous call everyone else on the field saw.

But, would Everton have been better if the ref had given the penalty and sent off the Villa player?
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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2009, 09:56:04 AM »
Villa versus Everton right now.

Everton corner, Header on goal and BLATANT hand ball on the goal line (shouldve been and automatic red card) - Everton puts it back in and scores.
Ref didn't play advantage - just missed a ridiculous call everyone else on the field saw.

But, would Everton have been better if the ref had given the penalty and sent off the Villa player?


It seems the more money they spend on refereeing in football the worst it gets. All season the refereeing has been shit.

By the way what a poor game from a technical standpoint. Most of the players look technically so weak, pressure 5 yards away and man panicing, just hoofing the ball up field. You could see a glaring difference between Arteta and his supporting cast
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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2009, 11:12:50 AM »
hahahaaaaa .... oh lord, it getting worse.

Alan Wiley's assistant never raised the flag until after CRonaldo ran off to celebrate.
the linesman run along with the play and never raised his flag ... all of a sudden the camera pan in on him after the celebrations and flag raise.

gutter.
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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2009, 02:39:00 PM »
hahahaaaaa .... oh lord, it getting worse.

Alan Wiley's assistant never raised the flag until after CRonaldo ran off to celebrate.
the linesman run along with the play and never raised his flag ... all of a sudden the camera pan in on him after the celebrations and flag raise.

gutter.

I was wondering about that... but my guess is that the linesman ran to the spot alongside the point where the infraction was committed and raised his flag at that point.  I've never seen a linesman running down the sidelines waving his flag to get the referee's attention... and this is what makes me think he spotted the offside (and I think it was the right call) and ran to the sideline spot in line with where Ronaldo was standing offside.

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2009, 02:40:37 PM »
did you see CRonaldo mocking the linesman after he scored the header?  ::)
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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2009, 03:43:22 PM »
hahahaaaaa .... oh lord, it getting worse.

Alan Wiley's assistant never raised the flag until after CRonaldo ran off to celebrate.
the linesman run along with the play and never raised his flag ... all of a sudden the camera pan in on him after the celebrations and flag raise.

gutter.

I was wondering about that... but my guess is that the linesman ran to the spot alongside the point where the infraction was committed and raised his flag at that point.  I've never seen a linesman running down the sidelines waving his flag to get the referee's attention... and this is what makes me think he spotted the offside (and I think it was the right call) and ran to the sideline spot in line with where Ronaldo was standing offside.

He was listening to soca on he ipod  ;D
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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2009, 05:06:42 PM »

He was listening to soca on he ipod  ;D

...musta been ah Iwer chune  :rotfl:

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2009, 12:16:52 PM »
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=AvtPcpcAMsbt04nAG7kKHxkmw7YF?slug=ap-uefa-extrarefs&prov=ap&type=lgns

Quote
Platini wants extra refs not video replays

BRUSSELS (AP)—UEFA chief Michel Platini is calling for world soccer to add two more referees to reduce officiating mistakes, rather than backing the use of video replays.

Platini said Wednesday that two more referees would catch “99 percent of the unacceptable mistakes” and would not delay play like video replays in other sports.

The five-official system will be taken up by the rule-making International Football Association Board—made up of representatives from FIFA and the soccer associations of England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales—which is scheduled to meet in Northern Ireland in March.

Platini said its value would already have been proven last weekend, when forward Adriano appeared to score Inter Milan’s first goal in a 2-1 victory over AC Milan with his arm.

“If we have additional referees, they would have seen the mistake,” Platini said.

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Re: Inconsistent Refereeing
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2009, 02:11:14 PM »
its impossible for refferees to be impartial and not affected by personalities or situations

refferees number one objective is to uphold the spirit of the game

which is tant amount to having faith in a religion that you have no proof exist

I passed the FIFA refferees course i just need to get registered

i also know i would be better than the majority of reffs i have seen

and would consult my assistant refs more

 

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