U17 Results

[NC]

The USA problem might be the fact that they do not believe in the individual.  They believe in the team concept, if you notice all of those teams Brazil, Mexico, Netherlands etc., all of them that special individual the USA lack at all levels.

[JDB]

yeah well I gave props to their golden generation- but they competed against the likes of Neeskens, Cryuff and co. form Holland & Tresor, Platini, Tigana & Fernandez eg...from France....so that's why I think their comparative advantage was beyond just the talent.....(not taking away anything from their players)....just a thought

I hear yuh but I still feel that in most cases talent showed through.

From '82 to '86 France was better and it showed. Germany beat them unjustly (my opinion) in '82 but France won the Euros in '84. The '86 game would be the only one where I would say that France got outfought by a poorer Germany side and general opinion is that that was due to the previous battle with Brazil. But if you look at it, that France team was on the decline and Germany, with a few exceptions, was on the rise.

Same thing for the seventies Holland vs Germany '74, player for player is a dead heat. But in '78 Germany weren't good enough and even the physical advantage couldn't help them, while Holland were still playin ball (and losing WC finals).

[Filho]

Muller's record is second only to Pele....

Which record? Muller actually has more WC goals than Pele (14 vs 12). Brazil's 1986, 1990 and 1994 WC player Muller, was named after the German...Pele is 3rd on the WC goalscorers list..

1) Muller/ Germany (10 goals in 1970, 4 in 1974)
2) Just Fontaine/ France (13 goals in 1958) record number of goals in 1 WC.
3) Pele/Brazil (6 in 1958, 1 in 1962, 1 in 1966, 4 in 1970)

[kicker]

Muller's record is second only to Pele....

Which record? Muller actually has more WC goals than Pele (14 vs 12). Brazil's 1986, 1990 and 1994 WC player Muller, was named after the German...Pele is 3rd on the WC goalscorers list..

1) Muller/ Germany (10 goals in 1970, 4 in 1974)
2) Just Fontaine/ France (13 goals in 1958) record number of goals in 1 WC.
3) Pele/Brazil (6 in 1958, 1 in 1962, 1 in 1966, 4 in 1970)

I assumed he meant scoring record overall (not that I know it)....... given that Muller is the all time WC top scorer- soon to be passed by RONALDO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JDB]

I know all those facts Filho what I was referring to was his international record and how he is generally considered. We can't really use those stats because then that would tell us that Pele was third to Just Fontaine.

Muller hasn't scored "1000 career goals" like Pele.

He is recognized as being probably the second greatest "goalscorer" of all time because of his scoring rate (68 in 62 internationals and over 600 career goals).

Some people even rate him higher becasue he always played in top leagues (Plenty of Pele's Santos games were in exhibitions and Pele refused to leave Brazil for Europe) but I find that hard to do.

[Filho]

yeah...when I asked which record I wasn't being sarcastic. I really just wanted to know which record. I doh ever dis Pele, but that 1000 career goals is a bit of a joke and is not a bonafide record. better to look at his goals per game for the Brazilian national team.

[JDB]

yeah...when I asked which record I wasn't being sarcastic. I really just wanted to know which record. I doh ever dis Pele, but that 1000 career goals is a bit of a joke and is not a bonafide record. better to look at his goals per game for the Brazilian national team.

Respect.