If the WCQs were held outside T&T in North America, support would be 100% better

[daryn]

Really... I am?  Where did I say such a thing?  I said the fan base consists of those who are fans of the Soca Warriors... or did you miss that the first five times I said it?  I made no qualification of the fan base... and in fact I said it includes many who can't make it to all the games, people like myself who can't make a mid-week trip to Nashville.

I didn't miss anything.  we both accept that there are examples of local and foreign based fans who go to great lengths to see the team.  you said that the argument becomes moot when you consider what the foreign based are willing to do to see a game. Implicit in you saying that is that, all else equal, that behaviour is more likely to be exhibited by foreign based. 

Whether you want to admit it or not, you have already made a speculation of your own to get to that conclusion if only because all else isn't equal.   

but moving on, if you're not putting that restriction on the fan base then your argument just develops another hole: how on earth does someone who prefers not to speculate make a determination about how much of the fan base is sitting at home watching on tv instead of going to Nashville/Boston/Chicago/Hartford?
 

That's strange... I could have sworn you said "plenty" of that fan base... now you're saying you spoke specifically of your family and people you overheard making random comments in the parking lot.  Either "plenty" of your relatives were in attendance or there were "plenty" in the parking lot displaying their ignorance as to who's wearing what.  Not that that proves they were there just for the lime... but we'll leave it where it is.

I did say plenty and I haven't changed that position yet.  I used people I know as examples.  just as I used an example of someone I didn't know.  How you could twist that into a supposed change of stance on my part is beyond me.  I recognize this is not scientific proof but I feel very secure in my claim that plenty of the trinis in attendance don't "follow" the team. 

The nature of this topic precludes a scientifically acceptable level of proof.  Regardless of which side you're arguing.  So that raises the question: why would you even get into it if you have such an aversion to speculation? 

[Bourbon]

Doh try and make the trips by allyuh self b/c it will be hard.  Maybe that is what WN need to start doing... organize and hire maxi from points east and south to head to POS games, and east and north to head to South games.  As ah say, where there's ah will there's a way.  Is the thinking (mindset) that needs to change.

Yeah i know. Dahs why dis does happen:

Worse yet when you one ah de few people you know who seriously passionate bout de team....in light of all those factors...you still might be considering it....you feel you getting anybody who just on de lime to go down dey and watch a friendly with no big name players? So yuh know for sure if yuh going...yuh goin by yuhself.

Yuh hadda remember most people on dis board not locally based.

For me personally....real dynamics does hadda fall in place for me to get to go. First off funds...i a student...and tings rel tight with me. I does spend 34 dollars a day in transport to go to school..and is my parents i hadda rely on for that. Most times being sensitive to the suituation I just doh bother...unless school closed and i working....which in that case is no scene....i dey for sure..cuz gas money eh no scene..ticket money eh no scene..i could carry my lil bro and sister...all dat. But....when i hadda be fighting up with almost a luciferian school work load....expenses on a minimum....and den hadda find extra money to go south and ting and eh be sure bout transport and ting to get back...plus the time consumed as a opportunity cost...when schoolwork and other stresses done on high....it does be difficult. When i do go..i make sure and enjoy it doh. I remember school was closed so i was working around the time of the England game..i went and buy 4 tickets even doh most people i knew was non commital bout it......i still say no scene...i go must convince somebody to go. I end up convincing some people from church to move....and i had to warn dem..."eh..allyuh..i letting allyuh know from up front...i does carry on like a rel skettel in football eh...doh be shocked." It have so many things i would like to do dat due to constraints i cant. Dahs how it is....me eh vex. But de same way expats would enjoy a consistent lime with trini's and wish they could do it often...they will maximise any opportunity to do so. When most circumstances favourable...i go still make de sacrifice and go once i could..and i does make sure and enjoy it. De ting is....when i go in de stadium.....and i singing the anthem as loud as i could..and people watching me funny....when i making noise...booing.....heckling......yuh does hear some ass who doh like dat..and rather dan create a scene..i go jus humble and keep it conservative. If yuh want to make noise when something happen..go and spectate golf....football eh for dat.

[Bakes]

I didn't miss anything.  we both accept that there are examples of local and foreign based fans who go to great lengths to see the team.  you said that the argument becomes moot when you consider what the foreign based are willing to do to see a game. Implicit in you saying that is that, all else equal, that behaviour is more likely to be exhibited by foreign based. 

Whether you want to admit it or not, you have already made a speculation of your own to get to that conclusion if only because all else isn't equal.   

Fella you could see whatever you want to see in my position it matters not to me.  One thing I am not lacking for is the ability to express myself, if you're the only one deriving these wild conclusions from my post then I am perfectly content with that.  I never said anything about "all else being equal", instead I listed what I see as the two most realistic obstacles to fans supporting the games in TnT... cost and travel.  Compare the cost and travel that fans here in the US have to endure and there simply is no comparison.  If you see speculation somewhere in that then feel free to point it out.  Or continue playing de ass looking for thing that ah never said.

but moving on, if you're not putting that restriction on the fan base then your argument just develops another hole: how on earth does someone who prefers not to speculate make a determination about how much of the fan base is sitting at home watching on tv instead of going to Nashville/Boston/Chicago/Hartford?
 
I'm sorry... where did I make this determination again?  Did I ever mention anything about the respective numbers of fans at the games or at home?  Are we even reading the same posts?

I said the fan base isn't limited to the people at the games here in the US... and perfectly willing to concede that the fan base isn't limited to the people at the games in TnT.  That was an aside and never central to anything that I said, but I address it since you're apparently having difficulties understanding the context in which it was mentioned.

I did say plenty and I haven't changed that position yet.  I used people I know as examples.  just as I used an example of someone I didn't know.  How you could twist that into a supposed change of stance on my part is beyond me.  I recognize this is not scientific proof but I feel very secure in my claim that plenty of the trinis in attendance don't "follow" the team. 

I can only conclude that you either have problems with the English language, or with Reading Comprehension.  I never "twisted" anything into suggesting that you changed your position, I was simply questioning whether your family members and the odd conversations you overheard in the parking lot qualifies as "plenty".  You say it does.

Where did I ever state that you changed your stance?

The nature of this topic precludes a scientifically acceptable level of proof.  Regardless of which side you're arguing.  So that raises the question: why would you even get into it if you have such an aversion to speculation? 

And I'm sure you see people in here asking for "scientifically acceptable level of proof"... right??  Not being able to quantify the numbers doesn't mean that we can't make logical conclusions (that don't amount to speculation) based on our non-scientific observations.  It's actually quite simple... examine the obstacles faced by local-based supporters, examine the same for foreign-based supporters.  Take a look at the turnout at the games in each setting and make a determination as to what the per capita representation  at the games is... presented as a percentage. 

This is relatively easy in the case of TnT not as easy to tell how many Trinis in the crowds at US-based games. But knowing the size of the crowd in attendance and taking a visual of the Trinis in the crowd (not scientific... but most would be wearing red and sitting together) easy to make an educated as to the size of the Trini contingent.  This is about the only bit of "speculation" that I've done.  Toss that aside and it's pretty easy to still conclude that foreign-based face greater obstacles than local based when it comes to attending games.

No "scientifically acceptable" proof needed.

[Bakes]

Doh try and make the trips by allyuh self b/c it will be hard.  Maybe that is what WN need to start doing... organize and hire maxi from points east and south to head to POS games, and east and north to head to South games.  As ah say, where there's ah will there's a way.  Is the thinking (mindset) that needs to change.

Yeah i know. Dahs why dis does happen:

Worse yet when you one ah de few people you know who seriously passionate bout de team....in light of all those factors...you still might be considering it....you feel you getting anybody who just on de lime to go down dey and watch a friendly with no big name players? So yuh know for sure if yuh going...yuh goin by yuhself.

Yuh hadda remember most people on dis board not locally based.

For me personally....real dynamics does hadda fall in place for me to get to go. First off funds...i a student...and tings rel tight with me. I does spend 34 dollars a day in transport to go to school..and is my parents i hadda rely on for that. Most times being sensitive to the suituation I just doh bother...unless school closed and i working....which in that case is no scene....i dey for sure..cuz gas money eh no scene..ticket money eh no scene..i could carry my lil bro and sister...all dat. But....when i hadda be fighting up with almost a luciferian school work load....expenses on a minimum....and den hadda find extra money to go south and ting and eh be sure bout transport and ting to get back...plus the time consumed as a opportunity cost...when schoolwork and other stresses done on high....it does be difficult. When i do go..i make sure and enjoy it doh. I remember school was closed so i was working around the time of the England game..i went and buy 4 tickets even doh most people i knew was non commital bout it......i still say no scene...i go must convince somebody to go. I end up convincing some people from church to move....and i had to warn dem..."eh..allyuh..i letting allyuh know from up front...i does carry on like a rel skettel in football eh...doh be shocked." It have so many things i would like to do dat due to constraints i cant. Dahs how it is....me eh vex. But de same way expats would enjoy a consistent lime with trini's and wish they could do it often...they will maximise any opportunity to do so. When most circumstances favourable...i go still make de sacrifice and go once i could..and i does make sure and enjoy it. De ting is....when i go in de stadium.....and i singing the anthem as loud as i could..and people watching me funny....when i making noise...booing.....heckling......yuh does hear some ass who doh like dat..and rather dan create a scene..i go jus humble and keep it conservative. If yuh want to make noise when something happen..go and spectate golf....football eh for dat.

yeah man Bourbon... I totally understand.  Dai'z why ah say ah di'n want tuh be cavalier in dismissing some of the costs hurdles man does have to negotiate.  I in de same financial straits as you having exhausted mih modest savings since returning to school full-time and forfeiting ah paycheck.  It would be so nice if the TTFF would come to their senses and offer Warrior Nation members discounted tickets.  Ah well...