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Offline palos

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Question for all forumites
« on: April 08, 2009, 06:24:26 PM »
Maturana and staff have reportedly resigned because they felt they did not have the full support of the players.

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that the players "sell out" did not give of their best in de game against de USA and if so, a possible explanation might be in hopes of getting rid of de coach?

Could this be the explanation for such a putrid performance by our allegedly "best" and professional players?

If so, does the ends justify the means?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 07:39:11 PM by palos »
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Offline freakazoid

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 06:29:29 PM »
if  some sell out take place it wasnt a team effort. so ah really doubt it. some players really gave heart and soul
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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 06:30:07 PM »
nah n sell out, but I feel he get much resistance from the foreign based.

Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 06:30:58 PM »
i eh tink de players will do that.everybody is big man.if all ah them say get rid ah mats.that's that.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline acb

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 06:32:47 PM »
Maturana and staff have reportedly resigned because they felt they did not have the full support of the players.

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that the players "sell out" de game against de USA to get rid of de coach?

Could this be the explanation for such a putrid performance by our allegedly "best" and professional players?

If so, does the ends justify the means?

Thanks.

If that was the case, I suggest all the fans
1. find a new team to support
2. demand that any player guilty of such atrocious actions never wear red, white and black ever again.

I kinda find it hard to believe that players would embarass their countrymen like that.
If anything, the expression on Birchall face when he get sub, the constant buffing from Ince, Carlos constant running and effort, and Stern determination to win the ball and advance would expunge those players from such actions.

Many of the players had their weaknesses exploited by superior oppositon. We received the same throttling in the previous round from the US, and the last time we played the US at this stage in CT, we shouldve received a more convincing cutarse than the 1-0 scoreline reflected, and Beenie was at the helm then!!!
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Offline palos

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 06:36:02 PM »
Maturana and staff have reportedly resigned because they felt they did not have the full support of the players.

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that the players "sell out" de game against de USA to get rid of de coach?

Could this be the explanation for such a putrid performance by our allegedly "best" and professional players?

If so, does the ends justify the means?

Thanks.

If that was the case, I suggest all the fans
1. find a new team to support
2. demand that any player guilty of such atrocious actions never wear red, white and black ever again.

I kinda find it hard to believe that players would embarass their countrymen like that.
If anything, the expression on Birchall face when he get sub, the constant buffing from Ince, Carlos constant running and effort, and Stern determination to win the ball and advance would expunge those players from such actions.

Many of the players had their weaknesses exploited by superior oppositon. We received the same throttling in the previous round from the US, and the last time we played the US at this stage in CT, we shouldve received a more convincing cutarse than the 1-0 scoreline reflected, and Beenie was at the helm then!!!

Good points.  :beermug:
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Offline kicker

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 06:44:21 PM »
Yuh could only sell out games that yuh could win in the first place lol

From the looks of it- we were simply beaten

From my point of view there was nothing to suggest that they didn't try to come ouf of that game with something. 

Discontent with the coach could have psychological ill-effects that would have made it even more difficult to get points out of the game, but by all measures we were outplayed by a better team.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 06:47:33 PM by kicker »
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 06:48:04 PM »
I cant believe that you letting that man tell you who to play
that player is not ready
I cant believe that you doing this
It is very difficult to play for the TTFF



maybe that is what was said and some took it as those players selling out


good points ACB
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Offline NUFF

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 06:51:28 PM »
Maturana did not even have the full support of the administration.  They undermined his authority as head coach on more than one occasion.  So how can we expect the players to respect him when a bad example was set from those at the top.

As for your question I don't think the players intentionally sold the match.  I think what we saw last week against de US has been more the norm than the exception for T&T football for the last 10+ years.  2006 was the exception.  The norm for our team in general is one of inconsistency.  We play well in one game then fall apart in a next game.  

It seems like everything our team is turning the corner Jack Warner sabotages our success and drags our football backward.  From 96 to 2000 Bertille St. Clair had steadily improved our team.  We were beating the likes of Columbia and South Africa and we made it to the semis of the gold cup with a team that was missing Stern John, Shaka Hislop,  Ian Cox, Ronnie Mauge after one game, and Dwight Yorke after 2 games.  

Lo and behold Jack fires Bertille and hires the shitsnake Porterumfield and we collapse in the 2001 hex.  In 2006 Beenie took us to the world cup and we had a nice foundation of success to build on and finally have some continuity with Wim as coach.  Lo and behold Jack strikes again.  He blacklists the world cup players and fires Wim for speaking out about not have the world cup players available.  He then hires Maturana but does not allow him to choose his own staff and now we end up in a familiar position, bringing in a new coach during world cup qualifying and hoping once again for a miracle.

Offline palos

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2009, 06:53:46 PM »
Yuh could only sell out games that yuh could win in the first place lol

From the looks of it- we were simply beaten

From my point of view there was nothing to suggest that they didn't try to come ouf of that game with something. 

Discontent with the coach could have psychological ill-effects that would have made it even more difficult to get points out of the game, but by all measures we were outplayed by a better team.

Of course we were outplayed.  And of course we were beaten by a better team.

What was also quite evident was the lack of fight and determination shown by the majority of the team....save for those mentioned by acb....especially carlos edwards.

Maybe the explanation is no matter what you do...when you've lost a team...as maturana clearly had lost this one....these kind of performances might happen.  

At the end of the day, players could vex wit coach all they want.  They're the one's have to perform.  If it's true they didn't support Maturana....well he's gone now and they cyah hide behind anybody else but deyself.

Be careful what you ask for....you just might get it.  Spotlight firmly on allyuh...no more excuses.  Over to you fellas.  
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2009, 06:59:48 PM »
Maturana did not even have the full support of the administration.  They undermined his authority as head coach on more than one occasion.  So how can we expect the players to respect him when a bad example was set from those at the top.

As for your question I don't think the players intentionally sold the match.  I think what we saw last week against de US has been more the norm than the exception for T&T football for the last 10+ years.  2006 was the exception.  The norm for our team in general is one of inconsistency.  We play well in one game then fall apart in a next game.  

It seems like everything our team is turning the corner Jack Warner sabotages our success and drags our football backward.  From 96 to 2000 Bertille St. Clair had steadily improved our team.  We were beating the likes of Columbia and South Africa and we made it to the semis of the gold cup with a team that was missing Stern John, Shaka Hislop,  Ian Cox, Ronnie Mauge after one game, and Dwight Yorke after 2 games. 

Lo and behold Jack fires Bertille and hires the shitsnake Porterumfield and we collapse in the 2001 hex.  In 2006 Beenie took us to the world cup and we had a nice foundation of success to build on and finally have some continuity with Wim as coach.  Lo and behold Jack strikes again.  He blacklists the world cup players and fires Wim for speaking out about not have the world cup players available.  He then hires Maturana but does not allow him to choose his own staff and now we end up in a familiar position, bringing in a new coach during world cup qualifying and hoping once again for a miracle.

as the saying goes
"NUFF said" ;D
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Offline kicker

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2009, 07:04:37 PM »
Yuh could only sell out games that yuh could win in the first place lol

From the looks of it- we were simply beaten

From my point of view there was nothing to suggest that they didn't try to come ouf of that game with something. 

Discontent with the coach could have psychological ill-effects that would have made it even more difficult to get points out of the game, but by all measures we were outplayed by a better team.

Of course we were outplayed.  And of course we were beaten by a better team.

What was also quite evident was the lack of fight and determination shown by the majority of the team....save for those mentioned by acb....especially carlos edwards.

Maybe the explanation is no matter what you do...when you've lost a team...as maturana clearly had lost this one....these kind of performances might happen.  

At the end of the day, players could vex wit coach all they want.  They're the one's have to perform.  If it's true they didn't support Maturana....well he's gone now and they cyah hide behind anybody else but deyself.

Be careful what you ask for....you just might get it.  Spotlight firmly on allyuh...no more excuses.  Over to you fellas.  

That perceived lack of fight you talk about was more likely a lack of fitness or a mental beating...than a conscious collecive effort to "sell out".  

I'm more inclined to agree with the bolded which was more or less my point when I said:

Discontent with the coach could have psychological ill-effects that would have made it even more difficult to get points out of the game


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Offline Observer

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2009, 07:10:46 PM »
Maturana and staff have reportedly resigned because they felt they did not have the full support of the players.

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that the players "sell out" de game against de USA to get rid of de coach?

Could this be the explanation for such a putrid performance by our allegedly "best" and professional players?

If so, does the ends justify the means?

Thanks.

It would not be the first time its happened in Football, but I for one think it is disgusting for professionals to act in that manner and disrespectful to supporters. So I really hope not.
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Offline ChipChipSilver

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2009, 07:14:43 PM »
Maturana and staff have reportedly resigned because they felt they did not have the full support of the players.

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that the players "sell out" de game against de USA to get rid of de coach?

Could this be the explanation for such a putrid performance by our allegedly "best" and professional players?

If so, does the ends justify the means?

Thanks.

If that was the case, I suggest all the fans
1. find a new team to support
2. demand that any player guilty of such atrocious actions never wear red, white and black ever again.

I kinda find it hard to believe that players would embarass their countrymen like that.
If anything, the expression on Birchall face when he get sub, the constant buffing from Ince, Carlos constant running and effort, and Stern determination to win the ball and advance would expunge those players from such actions.

Many of the players had their weaknesses exploited by superior oppositon. We received the same throttling in the previous round from the US, and the last time we played the US at this stage in CT, we shouldve received a more convincing cutarse than the 1-0 scoreline reflected, and Beenie was at the helm then!!!

That's the bottom line ... I don't think they tanked the game.
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Offline acb

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2009, 07:27:59 PM »
since it have another thread that addresses the fans purchasing truth serum for the players at the after match fete, maybe some of them would like to share whatever insight they get from mingling with the players in that setting.

Fans had to ask football questions. Yuh couldn't just pretend that we didn't get a proper cut tail.

Did the players say "no comment" ... or did they spill the beans?
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2009, 07:29:59 PM »
SELL OUT!!!!!. They were beaten fairly and squarely!!!!

Offline palos

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2009, 07:37:31 PM »
SELL OUT!!!!!. They were beaten fairly and squarely!!!!

Sell out is an inappropriate word.  I will take it back.

What I meant to suggest is if players may have given less than their best and if so, could it be possible that they gave that kind of "effort" in the hopes that the coach would be dismissed.

There is no question that we were beaten fairly & squarely.  That we were soundly beaten by a better side.  But yuh could get beat and still fight, be competitive.  For the most part, that was not apparent.
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Offline samo

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2009, 07:39:59 PM »
Well, having looked at and spoken to some of the players after the game, they genuinely appeared to take the loss hard, maybe they could have been faking it but I doubt that...

Offline Storeboy

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2009, 07:44:05 PM »
Maturana and staff have reportedly resigned because they felt they did not have the full support of the players.

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that the players "sell out" de game against de USA to get rid of de coach?

Could this be the explanation for such a putrid performance by our allegedly "best" and professional players?

If so, does the ends justify the means?

Thanks.

Let's not go overboard here.  The fact that they did not support the coaching philosophy and selection and or strategy does not mean that when they strap the boots on they deliberately did not play.  The psychology of the human being when he isn't completely sold ob a philosophy will make his effort appear less than stellar.  When men were in and out of the team, showing no continuity and common sense affects players and teams of every caliber, from Chelsea to Ma Pau or a high school team.  That is what  Beenie had in 2006 that this team needs again to excel - a buy in to the philosophy and a coach who appears to know what he is  doing.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2009, 07:44:31 PM »
The issue with this,  is that the nucleus of the team and the majority of the players in England. What can any coach do with them in just 5 days. Fitness is all left up to them. Do these guys look match fit to you all. How come they run their backside off in the EPL and they have a hard time against the US. I think Latas should build the nucleus around the locals let the big name foreign fill in the rest of spots. He should use his influence to instill a better work ethic. Everybody adores him. Lets see if they will work for him.

Offline acb

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2009, 07:45:49 PM »
Nuff, no disrespect but the problem I have with posts (not forumites) is that when something goes wrong, we automatically blame JW, but when things go better than expected, we don't give Jack his jacket - that is why he will forever torment football in TT. It's not your reply specifically, but the overall sentiment on the Forum.

you said:
Quote
... Lo and behold Jack fires Bertille and hires the shitsnake Porterumfield and we collapse in the 2001 hex.  In 2006 Beenie took us to the world cup and we had a nice foundation of success to build on and finally have some continuity with Wim as coach ...

You forget to mention that JACK was the one who appoint Beenie in 2006. Prior to JW talking Beenie into the job, he probably had no clue where to point out T&T on a map.

then,
Quote
... Lo and behold Jack strikes again. He blacklists the world cup players and fires Wim for speaking out about not have the world cup players available. He then hires Maturana but does not allow him to choose his own staff and now we end up in a familiar position, bringing in a new coach during world cup qualifying and hoping once again for a miracle ...

Ever wonder why Wim stay in the first place? ... and who was paying Wim salary? - It wasn't the TTFF and it wasn't the Ministry of Sport. So, just like how Maturana resigned, Wim get suspended  ;)

From the outset, Maturana had credentials to be a good coach. He should've also had the understanding of the Central American teams - so I don't think his appointment could have been a shock.

Now we have Latapy as a the coach - but who was it that coax Latapy back to T&T to fulfill Latapy's dream of coaching the Mens NT. He's wanted to do it since '06, but was convinced otherwise. He had a good thing going at Falkirk and gave it up to come back home, but you have to look at who facilitated that and give the man credit where credit is due.

JW has arguably done more than his share of wrong, but you have to build up a man before you can break him down.  
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Offline fatimarima

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2009, 07:56:09 PM »
Maturana and staff have reportedly resigned because they felt they did not have the full support of the players.

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that the players "sell out" did not give of their best in de game against de USA and if so, a possible explanation might be in hopes of getting rid of de coach?

Could this be the explanation for such a putrid performance by our allegedly "best" and professional players?

If so, does the ends justify the means?

Thanks.

Rubbish! This football not the young and the restless.   Anyway, you proposed this question so what do you think? 

Offline arrow

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2009, 08:50:01 PM »
Do you think it's POSSIBLE that the players "sell out" did not give of their best in de game against de USA and if so, a possible explanation might be in hopes of getting rid of de coach?

Well since the 2 players who single-handedly lost the game for us - Wolfe and A. Edwards - are less likely to play under another coach I don't see any reason why they would have sold out...even though it appears they did based on their performance or lack thereof

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2009, 09:23:20 PM »
Palos,
I would hope that a professional player would not resort to such a degree to cause a change. I would hope that they would consider  how much is at stake to resort to doing that.

However in this  'high stakes' game, someone has to be a scapegoat. I still believe that there has not  been a full disclosure on what TNT really wants in a national coach. If the prime goal is to qualify the team for the WC, then what is the process to get this done? is winning or qualifying for the Digicel/Caribbean cup a piece of the puzzle is the Gold Cup qualifying also a measure of that process?

1. What do we want the coach to accomplish?
2.  How would we know if he is being successful?
3. what has to be done to assist in this success?

4 what has to be done if he is not meeting with success along the way?

5 Is there an accountability measure for the players?

Offline spideybuff

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2009, 09:30:02 PM »
If the players know the coach is shite and he going to prevent them from makin a world cup with the crap he passing off as coachin, then I would agree with  player power and mutiny  as the only way to get rid of him rather than just sit on a boat and watch it sink.
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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2009, 09:31:00 PM »
I said these guys were sending ah message in that game. Daniel did not even attempt to to do anything. The 1 time he went at a defender he look like he learning to dribble. At the start of the game Carlos just kicking the ball, Dennis Lawrence not saying anything. No communication whatsoever on the field. The players were like 11 zombies on the pitch.
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Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2009, 09:34:40 PM »
I said these guys were sending ah message in that game. Daniel did not even attempt to to do anything. The 1 time he went at a defender he look like he learning to dribble. At the start of the game Carlos just kicking the ball, Dennis Lawrence not saying anything. No communication whatsoever on the field. The players were like 11 zombies on the pitch.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah hear yu...but is this the professional way of reacting to a situation yuh eh like? Ah mean if ah solider eh like  tuh be on the front line what go happen? he go do things to get killed?  if them players eh like what the coach doing  sabotaging ah high stakes game doh seem like the answer fuh me.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 09:36:53 PM by AB.Trini »

Offline elan

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2009, 09:41:20 PM »
I said these guys were sending ah message in that game. Daniel did not even attempt to to do anything. The 1 time he went at a defender he look like he learning to dribble. At the start of the game Carlos just kicking the ball, Dennis Lawrence not saying anything. No communication whatsoever on the field. The players were like 11 zombies on the pitch.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah hear yu...but is this the professional way of reacting to a situation yuh eh like? Ah mean if ah solider eh like  tuh be on the front line what go happen? he go do things to get killed?  if them players eh like what the coach doing  sabotaging ah high stakes game doh seem like the answer fuh me.

Is true what you say. They coulda fight that out after putting up a better fight on the field. A.B. I talk to one of the more noteable players on the team and he say is fren ting going on on the team. So some men watching how they brethren getting leave out for a more senior player brethen. So is we vs dem vs alyuh. Let's se how much things will change now. I waiting for 6/6 to see who get call up and who ask to be excused for that game.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2009, 09:44:32 PM »
Elan,
             Them fellahs was not sending any message to Pacho. What happen last week in Nashville was a failure to perform. They just did not have what it take to win or at least draw.

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: Question for all forumites
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2009, 09:50:01 PM »
I said these guys were sending ah message in that game. Daniel did not even attempt to to do anything. The 1 time he went at a defender he look like he learning to dribble. At the start of the game Carlos just kicking the ball, Dennis Lawrence not saying anything. No communication whatsoever on the field. The players were like 11 zombies on the pitch.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah hear yu...but is this the professional way of reacting to a situation yuh eh like? Ah mean if ah solider eh like  tuh be on the front line what go happen? he go do things to get killed?  if them players eh like what the coach doing  sabotaging ah high stakes game doh seem like the answer fuh me.

Is true what you say. They coulda fight that out after putting up a better fight on the field. A.B. I talk to one of the more noteable players on the team and he say is fren ting going on on the team. So some men watching how they brethren getting leave out for a more senior player brethen. So is we vs dem vs alyuh. Let's se how much things will change now. I waiting for 6/6 to see who get call up and who ask to be excused for that game.
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Yuh know if this is the case, then having a coach with no allegiances could have been a wiser  move; this begs thee question once more,  when man cayra look in the mirror and take full responsibility for actions, it easier to attribute  underachievement  to someone else. The 'fault dear Brutus lies not in the stars but within'

Judging by that game against the USA, the Warriors that played did not seem  in the same caliber to a team like the USDA that seem far from invincible against ElSva..... If TNT players are not professional enough to put aside petty and thoughts  favoritism them lets face the music we eh going no place higher than where we are in the standing.

 

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