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Author Topic: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins  (Read 4268 times)

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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Quebec dad sued by daughter after grounding loses his appeal

From CBC News

Father's lawyer says they may take case to Canada's Supreme Court

A Quebec father who was taken to court by his 12-year-old daughter after he grounded her in June 2008 has lost his appeal.

Quebec Superior Court rejected the Gatineau father's appeal of a lower court ruling that said his punishment was too severe for the wrongs he said his daughter committed.

The father is "flabbergasted," his lawyer Kim Beaudoin told CBC News.

In its ruling, issued Monday, the province's court of appeal declared the girl was caught up in a "very rare" set of circumstances, and her father didn't have sufficient grounds to contest the court's earlier decision.

The family's legal wrangling started with a dispute over the girl's internet use.

rShe had been living with her father after her parents split up when he grounded her in 2008 for defying his order to stay off the internet. The father caught her chatting on websites he had blocked, and alleged his daughter was posting "inappropriate pictures" of herself online.

Her punishment: she was banned from her Grade 6 graduation trip to Quebec City in June 2008, for which her mother had already granted permission.

The father — who had custody — withheld his written permission for the trip, prompting the school to refuse to let the girl go with her classmates.

That's when the girl asked for help from the lawyer who represented her in her parents' separation, and petitioned the court to intervene in her case.

"Going to court was a last resort," said Lucie Fortin, the legal aid attorney that represented the girl.

"The trip was very important to her."

A lower court ruled in the girl's favour in 2008. She went on the trip, but her father appealed the decision on the principle of the matter.

The legal battle destroyed father-daughter relationship said Kim Beaudoin, the attorney representing the childs father.

"Either way, he doesn't have authority over this child anymore. She sued him because she doesn't respect his rules," Beaudoin said.

"We went from a child who wanted to live with her father, and after all this has been done, they're not speaking anymore. It's very hard to raise a child who is the boss."

Beaudoin believes the ruling reflects a loss of moral authority in Quebec's court system.

"Is this what we want in our society? Laws are supposed to reflect our values. And if the courts aren't reflecting that, maybe the government will intervene, to prevent children from going this way," she said Tuesday, adding her client may take the case to Canada's Supreme Court.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 07:47:04 AM by ZANDOLIE »
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Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2009, 07:55:54 AM »
wait till TT see is in canada,hahahah.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.

Offline elan

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2009, 08:51:31 AM »
How is this signs of the time? Is Canada, dais normal scene.
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2009, 09:18:07 AM »
How is this signs of the time? Is Canada, dais normal scene.

How is this normal scenes? For one it occured in Quebec which is a whole different universe and two it is a precedent setting case that represents a major slippery slope assault on the rights of parents.
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truetrini

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2009, 09:38:51 AM »
How is this signs of the time? Is Canada, dais normal scene.

How is this normal scenes? For one it occured in Quebec which is a whole different universe and two it is a precedent setting case that represents a major slippery slope assault on the rights of parents.

so Canada is a splintered state?  Steups last I checked Quebec is canada and canada is quebec.....doh deflect from yuh backwards ass nation...    :devil: :devil:

next ting is man marrying fish up dey

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 10:19:54 AM »
How is this signs of the time? Is Canada, dais normal scene.

How is this normal scenes? For one it occured in Quebec which is a whole different universe and two it is a precedent setting case that represents a major slippery slope assault on the rights of parents.

so Canada is a splintered state?  Steups last I checked Quebec is canada and canada is quebec.....doh deflect from yuh backwards ass nation...    :devil: :devil:

next ting is man marrying fish up dey

Haul yuh star spangled ass! Canada IS a splintered state! Quebec is a separate nation culturally, fiscally and morally, no matter how much the politicians try to spin it.

And is not like Canada is the leader in frivulous lawsuits, we all know who that is.  I know you 'Mericans feeling good about yourself  because allyuh rough up some scrawny Somalis on a glorified pirogue, maybe ya'll should should come up here and take over Quebec, we sick and and tired of their shite. Besides dem Francophonie could teach you rednecks something about refinement and manners.

God bless CANADA! Vive le Quebec! Vive le Canada!
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Offline Queen Macoomeh

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2009, 10:38:14 AM »
To an extent, Zandolie is correct. Even the Canadian Federal laws tend to shift and blur when dealing with Quebec.

This case goes way past any line of logic and is setting a precedent that may well reach beyond the border.
When your neighbour's house is on fire wet yours.

...by the by...what is the Canada/US bashing all about? Neither country has much moral, political, ethical high ground to speak of...

Offline Bakes

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2009, 10:59:10 AM »
To an extent, Zandolie is correct. Even the Canadian Federal laws tend to shift and blur when dealing with Quebec.

This case goes way past any line of logic and is setting a precedent that may well reach beyond the border.
When your neighbour's house is on fire wet yours.

...by the by...what is the Canada/US bashing all about? Neither country has much moral, political, ethical high ground to speak of...

Highly unlikely... US courts resist influences from external sources.  Certainly on something as controversial as this, and and area of law in which there is rich precedent right here in US jurisprudence, it is extremely unlikely that we should see such a radical shift as we see here.  But anything is possible.

As for the "Canada/US bashing"... more of the same.  There's a cabal of Canadian residents on this board who do indeed act as though the "moral, political, ethical high ground" is theirs by virtue of being residents of the Commonwealth. 

Go figure.

Offline Queen Macoomeh

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2009, 11:16:16 AM »
I used to think the two countries operated from vastly different legal positions but that is no longer strictly the case. The methods of appeals and the attorney approaches in Canada are becoming similar. They just dress differently - the gowns are fly...lol

As for the bashing...*sigh*...I have lived in both countries and heard both sides argue and wondered why. Both will pack our arses back to T&T too.


truetrini

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2009, 12:52:02 PM »
Canada is not even a real country then...something I always suspected.

Queenie doh mind the back and forth in reality I doh give an ass.

Zandolie, we could easily take over quebec, but the sad truth is, dem already runnning here in great numbers...for de sun and lovely lifestyle.

damn canucks...allyuh maple syrup covered backsides cyar stay put up in de frozen tundra eh?

Offline Queen Macoomeh

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2009, 01:10:32 PM »
nah I was jes wondering. Never really paid attention before. But now dat ah see lil more ah realize is a 'boys will be boys' business. And since my font is pink, ah go hush. Ah know meh place.

Offline elan

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2009, 01:23:38 PM »
To an extent, Zandolie is correct. Even the Canadian Federal laws tend to shift and blur when dealing with Quebec.

This case goes way past any line of logic and is setting a precedent that may well reach beyond the border.
When your neighbour's house is on fire wet yours.

...by the by...what is the Canada/US bashing all about? Neither country has much moral, political, ethical high ground to speak of...

Highly unlikely... US courts resist influences from external sources.  Certainly on something as controversial as this, and and area of law in which there is rich precedent right here in US jurisprudence, it is extremely unlikely that we should see such a radical shift as we see here.  But anything is possible.

As for the "Canada/US bashing"... more of the same.  There's a cabal of Canadian residents on this board who do indeed act as though the "moral, political, ethical high ground" is theirs by virtue of being residents of the Commonwealth. 

Go figure.

Didn't a child divorced his/her parents in US courts?
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Offline Queen Macoomeh

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2009, 01:51:42 PM »
lol..all yuh remember Irreconcilable Differences?

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2009, 01:52:04 PM »
The "bashing" that goes on here is, on my part anyway, tongue in cheek fun. I don't speak for TT but I assume its the same.

Bakes, I tend to agree with you. In the NAFTA and post 911 environments the US and Canada have been undergoing rapid convergence in terms of trade policy, industrial output, security/border issues and ongoing efforts in agricultural policy, if not regulation, especially in the so-called Blue States where Canada exerts an enormous influence. We even sharing in a war now.

But there is a distinct cross-border divergence occuring in terms of fundamental attitudes toward religion, same sex marriage and social mores. Variance on these issues is less pronounced between Canada and neighbouring states (I believe same-sex marriage is still legal in Mass and Vermont?) but still the divide in social attitudes is still proceeding even in the face of massive collaboration on trade, military and security issues.  So

And yes American judges are notorious for resisting external influence whether state or international in origin.

The precedent I was speaking of was mostly to do with Canda: While Quebec has its own civil code, based on the Code Napoleon, it has great influence, IMO undue, on the Canadian legal system.

This ruling might have legs in Canada, but not in the US.


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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2009, 02:22:02 PM »
Canada is not even a real country then...something I always suspected.

Queenie doh mind the back and forth in reality I doh give an ass.

Zandolie, we could easily take over quebec, but the sad truth is, dem already runnning here in great numbers...for de sun and lovely lifestyle.

damn canucks...allyuh maple syrup covered backsides cyar stay put up in de frozen tundra eh?

Allyuh can't take no Quebec. Yuh forget the one and only time you Yankees dared challenge the mighty Canadian army you get a cutarse in the War of 1812. I know yuh yan-kkk-ee history books would rather sweep that embarassment under the rug. In fact, two defeats if you count the glory days of the Republic of Canada  :salute: :salute: :salute: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Canada

No marine or navy seal could deal with redneck lumberjacks, no-teet hockey players and horny Frenchmen. If the outrraaggeeeeooouuss accent don't run you off, the smell will.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 02:25:26 PM by ZANDOLIE »
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2009, 02:23:22 PM »
Canada is not even a real country then...something I always suspected.

Queenie doh mind the back and forth in reality I doh give an ass.

Zandolie, we could easily take over quebec, but the sad truth is, dem already runnning here in great numbers...for de sun and lovely lifestyle.

damn canucks...allyuh maple syrup covered backsides cyar stay put up in de frozen tundra eh?

Allyuh can't take no Quebec. Yuh forget the one and only time you Yankees dared challenge the mighty Canadian army you get a cutarse in the War of 1812. I know yuh yan-kkk-ee history books would rather sweep that embarassment under the rug. In fact, two defeats if you count the glory days of the Republic of Canada.

No marine or navy seal could deal with redneck lumberjacks, no-teet hockey players and horny Frenchmen. If the outrraaggeeeeooouuss accent don't run you off, the smell will.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Zandoh you like shit eh
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Offline Jumbie

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2009, 02:59:47 PM »
She still in school? Lawd.


Offline Bakes

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2009, 03:04:52 PM »
I used to think the two countries operated from vastly different legal positions but that is no longer strictly the case. The methods of appeals and the attorney approaches in Canada are becoming similar. They just dress differently - the gowns are fly...lol

As for the bashing...*sigh*...I have lived in both countries and heard both sides argue and wondered why. Both will pack our arses back to T&T too.



Nah they're not at all vastly different, both are derived from and strongly influenced by English Common Law, both in terms of substance and in form.  The form is preferred over a codified system as law such as France's, but the substance of the common law, which is to say that the English precedents, have been very influential in the development of both legal systems.  Canada lags behind in the area of tort law (as do most Commonwealth countries), which is a negative, but at times can be a positive as well.

As for the bashing... I'll admit to throwing a jab here or there, but the constant back and forth is ridiculous.  Is like the Crips and Bloods transplanted on an international stage... a bunch of ignorant ni66ers fighting each other over shit that they neither control nor influence.  Like Canada or the US care that much about either one ah allyuh sides.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2009, 03:09:02 PM »

Didn't a child divorced his/her parents in US courts?

Can't say for sure... but it's entirely possible for a child to secure their emancipation from their parents if the court deems it proper.  Under certain circumstances it may be better for a child to make decisions for themselves, or with the guidance of a court-appointed guardian, rather than being forced to adhere to the whims of negligent, ineffective or incompetent parents.

That however, is an issue entirely different from the Quebec case before us, and not at all as frivolous.  Emancipation is much different from suing a parent because you don't like the punishment.

Offline ribbit

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2009, 03:58:48 PM »
if this were in the usa, the story would be "child grounded, takes out parent with .45" which is not even news-worthy cause that is everyday thing in the land of the free.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2009, 04:16:24 PM »
if this were in the usa, the story would be "child grounded, takes out parent with .45" which is not even news-worthy cause that is everyday thing in the land of the free.
seems to be a "thing" going on all around as witnessed by quite a few shootings around Canada and the rest of the world.
maybe not as frequent as in the usa (and I dont have stats to back up this statement)
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Offline Bakes

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2009, 06:33:15 PM »
if this were in the usa, the story would be "child grounded, takes out parent with .45" which is not even news-worthy cause that is everyday thing in the land of the free.

Even in your fumbling attempt to dis Americans you only succeed in making Canada look foolish.  At least under the scenario you posit we could blame the child (or even the parents)... but what excuse does the esteemed Canadian justice system have for such a stupid decision?

How did this case even survive summary judgment?  One shudders to think what's being taught in Canadian classrooms these days.

Offline ribbit

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2009, 07:26:14 PM »
if this were in the usa, the story would be "child grounded, takes out parent with .45" which is not even news-worthy cause that is everyday thing in the land of the free.

Even in your fumbling attempt to dis Americans you only succeed in making Canada look foolish.  At least under the scenario you posit we could blame the child (or even the parents)... but what excuse does the esteemed Canadian justice system have for such a stupid decision?

How did this case even survive summary judgment?  One shudders to think what's being taught in Canadian classrooms these days.

in the time it took you to make your post, 100 schoolchildren in the usa discharged a firearm.

truetrini

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2009, 07:51:22 PM »
if this were in the usa, the story would be "child grounded, takes out parent with .45" which is not even news-worthy cause that is everyday thing in the land of the free.

Even in your fumbling attempt to dis Americans you only succeed in making Canada look foolish.  At least under the scenario you posit we could blame the child (or even the parents)... but what excuse does the esteemed Canadian justice system have for such a stupid decision?

How did this case even survive summary judgment?  One shudders to think what's being taught in Canadian classrooms these days.

in the time it took you to make your post, 100 schoolchildren in the usa discharged a firearm.

and dey tolee in ah visiting canadian too   :rotfl:

Offline Bakes

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2009, 07:53:55 PM »
in the time it took you to make your post, 100 schoolchildren in the usa discharged a firearm.

I'm sure if I stare at that line long enough it will eventually mean something to me.  Lucky for you America gives your life purpose.

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2009, 08:00:26 PM »
in the time it took you to make your post, 100 schoolchildren in the usa discharged a firearm.

I'm sure if I stare at that line long enough it will eventually mean something to me.  Lucky for you America gives your life purpose.

Zandolee as far as I know.....Canada was not even a country in 1812!  So how could they have defeated the US in any war?   If you are referring to the Battle between US and great britain   which ended with the Treaty of Ghent???  Den get it right Canbada did not even exist as a nation,,,dem never win no damn war

Offline Bakes

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2009, 08:13:57 PM »
^^^^somebody slip yuh some ah dat high-grade Vancouver weed ribbit does be smoking or what?

Offline Dutty

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2009, 08:23:23 PM »


How did this case even survive summary judgment?  One shudders to think what's being taught in Canadian classrooms these days.

this post might be from  a rollin 60's crip or an acre hood blood?

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2009, 08:37:11 PM »


How did this case even survive summary judgment?  One shudders to think what's being taught in Canadian classrooms these days.

this post might be from  a rollin 60's crip or an acre hood blood?

"what set you from homie?"

steups...even dat the Canucks trying to copy.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Sign of the tmes: Child grounded, takes parent to court and wins
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2009, 08:50:04 PM »
(1)...But there is a distinct cross-border divergence occuring in terms of fundamental attitudes toward religion, same sex marriage and social mores. Variance on these issues is less pronounced between Canada and neighbouring states (I believe same-sex marriage is still legal in Mass and Vermont?) but still the divide in social attitudes is still proceeding even in the face of massive collaboration on trade, military and security issues.  So

(2)And yes American judges are notorious for resisting external influence whether state or international in origin.

(3)The precedent I was speaking of was mostly to do with Canda: While Quebec has its own civil code, based on the Code Napoleon, it has great influence, IMO undue, on the Canadian legal system.

This ruling might have legs in Canada, but not in the US.




(1)You'll have to elaborate on the bolded so that I can understand exactly what issues you're referencing before I can address whether a divide exists between the respective attitudes of each country.  You say a divide exists where religion is concerned for instance... but what aspect of religion in particular?  Unless you're claiming that Canadians are rank and file atheists?

As for same-sex marriage... the central fallacy is that you poll the states which have same-sex marriages on the books and use that as prima facie proof of the American public's stance on the issue.  All well and good, except America is a nation not subject to public referenda... as such public opinion seldom ever influences legislation.

"social mores" is a nice-sounding catchall which lacks essential meaning absent further explication.

(2)No, not "American judges"... that's just the way the system is.  Respect for state autonomy has yielded a system of seperate yet connected jurisprudence.  Contrary to your claim however, there is definite inter-state influence particularly among states which are part of the same federal circuit... i.e. you can expect states in the 3rd Circuit (NJ, PA, DE, MD) to rule the same way... same for states belonging to neighboring circuits (2nd, 3rd, 4th Circuits tend to rule similarly) etc. 

Where the issue is one of first impression (meaning courts in that state haven't had to rule on that particular issue before), judges often would look to see how courts outside of that state/jurisdiction have ruled on the issue, and use that to guide their decisions.  Where there's already a settled body of law within that jurisdiction they won't substitute a 'foreign' law over their own.  The same convention applies to true 'foreign' law, international standards are unlikely to be adopted over American ones.

(3)Regarding "precedent"... I was referring specifically to QM suggestion that the precedent may have cross-border effect.

 

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